I have an NHS dentist... but still had to go private to get my mouth sorted... a metal inlay was cutting me to bits... blood everywhere, couldn't eat... no, it couldn't wait a few months... 🙀
As a wee aside I see 42 billion a year in uncollected taxes because inland revenue is understaffed. That money would be very useful in public service.
If you add that to the losses from brexit then we could fund the NHS properly, have a nice payrise for the staff and have loads left over
Oooof! 38 seats! Gone by the summer.
https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1613892506499923970?s=20&t=CzG616AI5EHeByjbNlTe3g
He’ll be gone in May when the Tory party is absolutely decimated at the local elections.
The question is what happens then?
They’re so hard-faced that they’ll just try to do something mental like bring Boris back or make Braverman PM, but at this point we surely to god have to have a general election
388-seat majority
Nonsense bit of election prediction there. 150+ seat majority looking possible though. But I agree, replaced in the summer if May’s results look anything like this. Labour wise to be ready for Johnson to return and run a “Save Brexit and the NHS” nonsensical but emotive campaign within months of returning. Otherwise… who would it be? Hunt? They’d be little point in that for the party…
Why would we need a GE? Absolutely no reason. Change of pm and attempted reset
After the local elections assuming a poor result for the tories the fighting will start but there will be huge splits in the party unable to coalesce round a unity candidate. This will take many months to get any sort of result.. no one with any sense will want to stand but there will be a big anti Johnson and anti headbanger constituency.
IMO of course
Labour wise to be ready for Johnson to return and run a “Save Brexit and the NHS” nonsensical but emotive campaign
I’ve been out canvassing this afternoon with James Frith (our local Labour candidate) and Alison McGovern (Shadow Employment Secretary) so I can tell you that Labour is already gearing up and getting ready for an election campaign at any moment from now.
It was really positive. The hijacking of the ‘Take Back Control’ slogan for devolving powers from Westminster to the regions is going down really, really well. It’s a clever move, which could turn out to be genius, if what I’ve seen today is anything to go by
I’m in a marginal constituency and the people saying ‘we have to get rid of this lot’ were by far in the majority. I only got the door slammed in my face once and that was by a UKIP voter. One person said they’d voted Tory all their lives but just couldn’t do it any more and would be voting Labour for the first time
Re elections and mandates etc, quick reminder that the NASUWT isn't allowed to strike because they "only" got a 42% turnout with 88% in favour of strikes. Meanwhile the prime minister is talking about making legal strikes harder, based on his turnout of, um, 0%.
But, we don't vote for a PM, we vote for a party so it's fairer to say that in the last election his party got 43.6% of a 67.3% turnout, which is a) not legally enough for a strike and b) a much smaller minority vote than the NASUWT got. But in strike ballots, all non-cast votes are assumed to be anti-strike whereas in general elections, which are much less important obviously, all non-cast votes are assumed to be happy with whatever the winner is.
there will be a big anti Johnson and anti headbanger constituency.
Of course there won’t! Are you mad?! It’s the complete opposite! The Tory party has had the headbangers in the majority for the last 3 years. Everyone remotely sane has been driven out. And the final decision would still rest with the racist Brexiteer pensioners of Eastbourne.
Someone totally unhinged like Suella Braverman or Kemi Badenoch would absolutely walk a leadership election
Down to earth, man of the people there
If Johnson comes back I predict an election in the autumn. He'll want to go while he's in his honeymoon period with all the misplaced positivity behind him. And he'll be campaigning on a ticket of anti-austerity to save the NHS by turning on the spending taps as he always has done before. Wouldn't be surprised if we see a return of the £xxx millions per week on the NHS slogan. It could actually work. At the very least it will save a hundred or so tory seats and that might be all they care about.
If Johnson comes back I predict an election in the autumn. He’ll want to go while he’s in his honeymoon period with all the misplaced positivity behind him.
Nah, it'll be the usual trick of jam tomorrow, and if only he'd not been ousted last year we'd not be in this mess as he'd have saved the day singlehandedly, so stick with him for another two years and the sunny uplands will be in sight.
Thete are a lot of Tories who despise Johnson. Badenoch is beyond the pale for many. The infighting will be spectacular
The bams may be driving the agenda but they remain a minority imo
I very much doubt we will see a coronation again lime sunack got
Will the ****wits vote reform and split the **** vote?
Thete are a lot of Tories who despise Johnson.
I remember lots of people saying exactly that just before they elected him as leader
There are more Tory MP’s that think he should never have been deposed at all, and all the senile racists who make up the membership still think the sun shines out of his arse
There are MPs who think Johnson could help them keep their seat when the election comes, and might give them a government job if they can help him regain the leadership. There are other MPs who think their political career is even more likely to be over if Johnson replaces Sunak than if he doesn’t. But May’s elections could have more MPs coming down on the side of the man who has won a referendum, and a full leadership campaign, and a general election. Campaigning Boris will begin to look more and more favourable to more MPs as his time out of the PM post helps them believe that voters might forget that he’s just full of hot air when it comes to actually doing anything. If anyone can convince the public that the way to save the NHS, and help fix Britain, is five more years of the Tories, it’s him. Perversely, given the mess has got is in. It’s becoming clear that Sunak anyway, isn’t it.
Down to earth, man of the people there
The surprise to me is why would anyone expect a long priviliged billionaire (including family) to be a down to earth, man of the people?
He has had a totally different upbringing and life and will understand the lives of the poor as much as the poor understand the lives of the billionaires. If that bothers people they can decide if a party that puts someone like that as their leader should be the party they vote for.
I am more bothered by the lack of empathy that pretty much all tories show rather than whether they are down to earth and of the people.
I wouldn't exaggerate Rishi Sunak's upbringing and background, it wasn't vastly different to many people's.
Sure being brought the son of a GP and a pharmacy manager and being sent to a fee-paying school suggests a fairly privileged upbringing, compared to many like me who relied on free school meals and attended inner-city comprehensive schools.
But it wasn't that different to the upbringing of many on STW. I have no idea many on here were privately educated but I get the impression that there are a few.
I don't doubt that despite allegedly working as a waiter during his student days that Sunak is out of touch with the lower classes because of his upbringing, but I don't think it is that exceptional.
IMO if there is a problem with Rishi Sunak it is that he is a Tory, not his upbringing.
It was really positive. The hijacking of the ‘Take Back Control’ slogan for devolving powers from Westminster to the regions is going down really, really well. It’s a clever move, which could turn out to be genius, if what I’ve seen today is anything to go by
For sure, it definitely works aping the more successful Tory slogans when you don't have ideals of your own. In for a penny in got several thousand pounds.
Thought this was the Sunak thread though?
I don’t doubt that despite allegedly working as a waiter during his student days that Sunak is out of touch with the lower classes because of his upbringing, but I don’t think it is that exceptional
That’s fair comment. Didn’t Sunak famously say in that old video that was unearthed that he didn’t actually know anyone who was working class?
If you look across the present Tory front bench, there’s hardly a one of them who looks like they’ve got the remotest idea what the reality of life is like for the majority of the population.
They’re as completely detached as some sort of medieval royalty, and they rule over us as such. Look at someone like Rees Mogg who is a walking caricature of establishment privilege.
The broad-brush legislation they’ve proposed this week will effectively make it illegal to go on strike for a massive chunk of the population.
Have a think about that for a moment. They want to criminalise the plebs withdrawing their labour, and they do that with the casual disregard of the born-to-rule class that they are
Refreshing technique from this interviewer… feels like something from 30 years ago…
https://twitter.com/dinosofos/status/1614190496775012352?s=21
They want to criminalise the plebs withdrawing their labour,
If you can't withdraw your labour, does that make you a slave? (Rhetorical question, not really comparing being a nurse to being a real slave)k
But it wasn’t that different to the upbringing of many on STW. I have no idea many on here were privately educated but I get the impression that there are a few.
There are big differences in privately educated though.
He went to Winchester which is one of the top flight "public" schools. Aka the really old ones generally set up by the king of the time/local authorities for free education which somehow turned into the most expensive and prestigious of the private schools.
So yeah his upbringing is fairly exceptional.
Being the son of a GP and a pharmacist might be exceptional for the social circles which I mix in but it doesn't strike me as particularly exceptional with regards to a fair few on STW.
If Rishi Sunak's parents were able to afford the Winchester College fees then I suspect that the family forwent other luxuries such as very expensive cars, holidays, etc.
Sunak's parents came here as immigrants, presumably seeking a better life, generally economic immigrants don't bring great wealth with them.
I don't doubt that Rishi Sunak had a very privileged upbringing compared to millions of others including myself, but I wouldn't exaggerate his upbringing and background.
Like Thatcher Sunak was clever/ambitious enough to marry into great wealth. Which no doubt was on the minds of his parents when they decided to send him to Winchester.
I don’t doubt that Rishi Sunak had a very privileged upbringing compared to millions of others including myself, but I wouldn’t exaggerate his upbringing and background.
He was probably bullied for being a lower class oik. Immigrant GP for a father? At a school like Winchester you might as well be a miner's son.
Good point, I hadn't thought of that - as the son of a GP he was probably considered pretty much working-class in Winchester.
Poor Sunak. Can we stop pretending that being able to afford a place at Westminster isn’t a sign of having wealth (well earned in his parent’s case) and isn’t a indicator of an upbringing and life that has isolated Sunak from the real world? He hasn’t got a clue about how any of us live. Remember when he filled up a normal person’s car, and then had to pretend he knew how to pay for it himself? The man is complete out of touch and his life isn’t even adjacent to the average poster on here, never mind that of the average person in the UK.
He might well be out of touch with ordinary people but sending your son to Winchester isn't a sign of great wealth, relatively speaking.
I can't see why the combined salary of a GP and a pharmacy manager wouldn't be able to afford the £45k annual fees for Winchester, if they really wanted to.
Whilst GPs and pharmacists might well be considered wealthy by many people we are clearly not talking about a Mohamed Al-Fayed level of wealth.
Ah, just normal wealth. Just a normal regular guy, going to a normal regular school, hanging out with all the normal regular people. Not isolated from the county he now leads at all… oh no. Normal wealth and a normal upbringing. Such a normal life having normal life experiences. His confusion when actually trying to pay for something him self in that petrol forecourt press disaster tells you all you need to know. He just doesn’t live in our world at all.
His upbringing was privileged, read what I wrote if you want to comment on what I wrote:
I don’t doubt that Rishi Sunak had a very privileged upbringing compared to millions of others including myself, but I wouldn’t exaggerate his upbringing and background.
But so has been the upbringing of quite a few on here, it isn't that exceptional.
I have met at least one STWer who was educated in a Headmasters' and Headmistresses' Conference school.
I have on occasions heard STWers refer to their former school teachers as "masters", for me personally that reeks of a privileged upbringing.
I don't think this place is as representative of the common people as some seem to believe.
I don’t think this place is as representative of the common people as some seem to believe.
Common people don't spend £5k on a bike, let alone many of them.
Ah… that you think many people posting here have lived lives similar to Sunak makes so much sense come to think of it.
I don’t think this place is as representative of the common people as some seem to believe.
No one thinks it is representative. We have even seen data from STW to confirm that. But hands up if you went to Westminster, made millions out of the financial crash, married the daughter of a billionaire, and have someone else carry out all the petty transactions of life so you don’t even know how to use a contactless payment in a petrol station… anyone?
We have people of all classes, income, wealth, education and experiences using this forum. The average in all those areas is much higher than national averages, but the spread is here… but even if you creamed off the top few, Sunak wouldn’t be able to relate to them. He doesn’t live in the same world as any of us, never mind most of us.
I have on occasions heard STWers refer to their former school teachers as “masters”, for me personally that reeks of a privileged upbringing.
It might for you but not for plenty of others that went to Grammar schools's and the like. You only have to pass the 11+ to get in to Skipton's and they were certainly using similar language back in the 90's.
married the daughter of a billionaire
So you have decided to abandon the claim that he had an "extraordinarily privileged upbringing" and instead now want to focus on who he married?
As I yet again repeat, Rishi Sunak did have a very privileged upbringing compared to millions of others, but I wouldn’t exaggerate it. It wasn't that dramatically different to many other MPs.
And not just Tory cabinet MPs but also Labour and LibDem MPs, past and present.
Both Tony Blair and Nick Clegg were public school educated. Whilst the HMC school fees in their cases didn't quite match Sunak's there is very little difference in it, apparently about £5k per annum.
Tony Blair's father was a prominent barrister and Nick Clegg's father the chairman of a bank. Do you honestly believe that they enjoyed a less of a privileged upbringing than the son of some random Southampton GP?
Going to Westminster puts you in a bracket apart from the rest of us, full stop. Including the people on this forum. And his family had to be wealthy to get him into that isolated bracket. That there are other politicians that also grew up in similar privileged circumstances as him is something you won’t find me disagreeing about. Our last PM to last more than a few weeks, Boris Johnson, is a great, more current, example to add to your list.
I can’t see why the combined salary of a GP and a pharmacy manager wouldn’t be able to afford the £45k annual fees for Winchester, if they really wanted to.
Fees relative to a GP's salary would have been a much lower proportion when Sunak went to Winchester than now, in Clegg's day a GP would have comfortably been able to afford the fees - school fee inflation has been significant.
Both Westminster and Winchester have historically been the most academically difficult schools to get into, although Winchester being a pure boarding school has had to lower its standards and is now going co-ed.
I have met at least one STWer who was educated in a Headmasters’ and Headmistresses’ Conference school.
There have been a fair few, but like your acquaintance, a number no longer post.
Oh come on Ernie, the people of this country are ruled by the upper class. Bred to be leadership, and perhaps theres a bit of Zaphod Beeblebrox occasionally popping up(President of the Galaxy-for those who missed the reference ), but the power behind is always from that same class
This is why we need to see an end to the royalist influence that tell the population of the UK(and beyond) that there are snobs and there are plebs, and the snobs have what it takes to rule the plebs. Its a mindset that is reinforced by their presence.
school fee inflation has been significant.
Yeah whilst looking at HMC fees I got the impression that they were probably much lower relatively when Sunak attended Winchester.
but like your acquaintance, a number no longer post.
So you know who I meant! He was happy to divulge his public school background to me but I always assumed that he was far from unique on here.
Both Tony Blair and Nick Clegg were public school educated
Blair went to Fettes which is arguably the most elite Scottish public school unless you really dislike your offspring and want to torture the little shit and so send them to Gordonstoun.
Clegg went to Westminster which again is top flight and so for us plebs can be basically be considered the same although within that flight various schools look down on others.
So what is your argument here?
Oh come on Ernie, the people of this country are ruled by the upper class.
Thanks but I am acutely aware of class politics. Indeed my entire political stance is totally based on the concept of class politics. Every political issue, without exception, I see from a class-conscious perspective.
I am simply suggesting not exaggerating Rishi Sunak's very privileged upbringing. It is not dissimilar to many other politicians in Westminster or even a few STWers.
I don't think I would describe Sunak's upbringing as "upper class" though, as the son of a rather unremarkable GP I would at best describe his upbringing as upper middle-class.
school fee inflation has been significant.
i think it was in private eye recently they had ones of their comparing numbers.
school fee inflation without the rightwing rags saying anything == insanely high.
school fee increase if vat charged == far lower but rightwing rags going nuts.
Blair went to Fettes which is arguably the most elite Scottish public school unless you really dislike your offspring and want to torture the little shit and so send them to Gordonstoun.
You obviously know far more about public school education than I do dissonance. I have absolutely no idea Fettes's ranking as a Scottish public school or aware of Gordonstoun's apparent failures. Nor, more importantly, do I care.
So what is your argument here?
When it comes to which is the best public school none whatsoever. I have no reason to doubt your apparent well-informed appraisals of Fettes, Gordonstoun, and Westminster.
So are we moving away from the argument that “many on here” share a privileged background like Westminster educated Sunak? If we’re now comparing him to other successful politicians instead, then we can agree that he moves about in their worlds, or worlds adjacent to theirs at least. Just miles from the one that we live in. He hasn’t got a clue how most people live their lives, has he? He’s been living an existence isolated from the rest of us his whole life.
He hasn’t got a clue how most people live their lives, has he? He’s been living an existence isolated from the rest of us his whole life.
Yeah, but I would say that while privileged, its miles apart from the traditional ruling classes. They probably picked him because they were stuck for someone else, and maybe the fact he can use his wealth to help fund the party. Might even go so far to suggest he's a plant, totally unsuitable to the job, but.....
But the difference between Sunak and Johnson will become more evident when we reach public debate in the run up to the next election, when his lack of debating skill becomes evidentially clear.
Nor, more importantly, do I care.
It is important when comparing relative privilege.
The three people you mention are all from top tier public schools. Any of them are going to be somewhat isolated from the mainstream.
He does seem to push it with his inability to use chip and pin for example. Maybe attributable to the years in the USA where they still are catching up on such modern technology.
