They probably picked him because they were stuck for someone else
Nah. He is a good political operator within the confines of fighting the way to the top of the tories. He saw an opportunity when Javid resigned and then managed to leverage that into a position of power including lots of branding as him personally doing stuff vs the tories.
Even then he wasnt the first choice until truss decided to turn it to eleven.
Saying Truss was a plant so Johnson could reclaim the throne is semi convincing but Sunak isnt. He outplayed Johnson and Cummings previously and Johnson only backed down when it was clear he would lose. He might hold hopes of replacing him yet but its not a Putin/Medvedev scenario.
when his lack of debating skill becomes evidentially clear.
Its worth remembering Johnson avoided any real debate where there was a moderator to keep things under control.
Johnsons debating skills relies on a supportive audience and no one with the authority to demand he answers the question.
Just look back to the height of the pandemic where he was completely lost without a crowd to cheer on his waffle.
So are we moving away from the argument that “many on here” share a privileged background like Westminster educated Sunak? If we’re now comparing him to other successful politicians instead.......
Not really, I'm happy to stick to my original comment ..... Rishi Sunak had a very privileged upbringing but it shouldn't be exaggerated - it wasn’t that different to the upbringing of many on STW.
Yes he went to Winchester but his father was a GP and his mother was a pharmacist. Which imo doesn't make him "that different" to many on STW.
The social and economic status of a GP and a pharmacist is very similar to the social and economic status of quite a few on here. In fact I'm fairly confident that there are actual GPs and pharmacists registered members of STW.
Everyone might hate the Tories on here but this place isn't quite as universally representative of the common people as some seem to believe.
this place isn’t quite as universally representative of the common people as some seem to believe.
You keep saying that. But no one has said they “believe” any such thing. We’ve seen the data… more educated than UK average, etc etc. But you are dismissing that being educated at Westminster puts Sunak in another world altogether. Nothing like “many on here”.
But you are dismissing that being educated at Westminster puts Sunak in another world altogether
It is certainly a different world to mine.
Rishi Sunak attending Winchester reflects a decision made by his parents, and their ability to pay the fees.
I have no doubt that there are people on STW who come from backgrounds where their parents could have made the same decision, and also have afforded the fees.
If Rishi Sunak is different to them then it is only in respect of the choices that his parents made, not that he came from a more affluent and privileged background than them.
The idea that the son of an immigrant GP in Southampton had a staggeringly privileged upbringing is nonsense. Even if it was a lot more privileged than mine.
I think the problem here is that we are back to that old chestnut - Rishi Sunak is a Tory politician. Therefore everything said about him must be said in absolute negative terms.
Saying that he came from a very privileged background, as I have, simply isn't enough. It is much more than a very privileged upbringing, it is a staggeringly privileged upbringing which we can't being to imagine.
I take a more realistic, and dare I say it more honest, attitude. Rishi Sunak had a very privileged upbringing - his father was a GP and his mother a pharmacist, two very well paid professionals.
Btw I know you meant Winchester but twice now you have said Westminster. Westminster was the school that a staggeringly privileged former LibDem leader went to.
Westminster, Winchester, Eton… this isn’t the world that “many on here” come from.
Yeah mate, being the son of a Southampton GP puts him in a totally different world to everyone else on STW.
It took a while but your power of persuasion eventually convinced me.
Westminster, Winchester, Eton… this isn’t the world that “many on here” come from.
No one comes from that world, they are sent to them, the world Sunak was brought up in was that an immigrant doctor in a City port. Income wise that would be equivalent to a fair few on here over the years (some of whom went to public schools, albeit Clarendon Schools's are rarer) and in some cases considerably less. The way he differs most in terms of family background is probably the colour of his parents' skin.
£ 45000 a year fees?
Sunacks parents despite being well earning upper middle class must have had help surely? Otherwise its a huge % of their income.
Going to a fee paying school that costs that much is beyond the reach of most middle class folk and imo has given Sunak a very distorted world view
Ernie is right tho if you consider Sunak to have come from a privileged background the also much of the STW demographic is also very privileged .
But then that is nothing new. .much of the STW demographic is highly privileged. The issuevis they dont always recognise their privileges.
I believe i have less money and come from a less wealthy background than many on here but I know i am rich and privileged
Maybe instead of arguing that his background means that it is possible he is able to relate the the issues facing normal people, you could provide some examples of him showing that he is able to relate to the issues facing normal people?
Sunacks parents despite being well earning upper middle class must have had help surely? Otherwise its a huge % of their income.
From a quick google current fees would be 45k for boarding and 33k for a day pupil, I guess he could have been a day pupil it is fairly close to Southampton.
What were the fees when he went? I wonder if the impact of current and recent past economical policy would now change the opportunity he had. I think a doctor and pharmacist would struggle now, but it would still be in the realms of possibility. 20+ years ago it would probably have been easier. A young family now with those jobs, faced with the current housing market and costs would have bigger choices to make, I am however unsure of the level of impact of austerity on those income levels.
I think Sunak was a day attender not a border, in the 1990's the fees would have been something like £10-15K (entirely do-able on a GP salary) not £45K; which is the cost of border now, and private school fees have really skyrocketed in the past 20/30 years anyway .
Whatever, it's been a good investment for the family.
Sunacks parents despite being well earning upper middle class must have had help surely?
Since when has being a GP and a pharmacist been 'upper' middle class? 🤷♂️
All this talk about Sunak's background is a bit daft. What is important is what he did with the opportunities he was given. From where I'm standing he has completely rejected his background coming from a respectable, hard working middle class family so that he can ingratiate himself with the entitled upper classes and become one of them. He's obviously been very successful at that enterprise and as a result has completely forgotten the values that his parents displayed. It explains pretty much everything he's done as PM and chancellor.
That makes sense nickc. I couldn't see how the sums added uo.
Gps are certainly upper middke class.
Gps are certainly upper middke class.
Nah, GPs are certainly solidly middle class, but the upper middle class moniker applies to the likes of chief executives, directors, and senior leaders of medium-large organsiations. The 'leadership class' if you like, and GPs down't fall into that category. GPs are more aligned to the professional and middle management class.
Anyway, Rishi's parents certainly did well sending their son to a school that was way beyond his station. It's just a shame that he abandoned his background and started thinking he was better than his parents and their peers.
An old mate of mine went to a public school that wasn't quite in the league of the ones mentioned above. He once told me that on the first day, the headmaster addressed them with "You boys here are the elite, all the rest are just plebs". With attitudes like that drilled into them is there any wonder they behave the way they do towards the working classes?
Anyway, Rishi’s parents certainly did well sending their son to a school that was way beyond his station.
Not sure why you think this, he wouldn't have been particularly out of place and the fact that he became Head Boy rather suggests he thrived.
Given the obvious results gifted to this country recently by the products of the most expensive education money can buy, it just appears to be a very costly way of producing completely incompetent, inexplicably overconfident sociopaths
Its well known and researched that these "elite" public schools turn out psychologically damaged individuals with gross over confidence.
products of the most expensive education money can buy, it just appears to be a very costly way of producing completely incompetent, inexplicably overconfident sociopaths
The way you say it makes it sound as if it represents some sort of abject failure.
In the last 200 years the Conservative Party has probably been in power for more years than any other political party in the world. This has given them a unique opportunity to shape the laws of the UK.
They have managed to adapt to constantly changing situations,
including the transition from a minority of property owning voters to universal suffrage.
They have also managed to very successfully maintain the privileged power and wealth of the those whose interests the party was created to represent.
They will in all probability lose power in 18 months but are highly likely to regain it within 10 years.
You may well ridicule their elitist educational institutions but it has served them very well indeed, and without doubt has helped them to maintain their political and economic power over you.
Another day, another cabinet ministers multimillion pound tax-dodging
https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1614656102494248960?s=46&t=m0KFqBwdWrjzB8Vjy4r_lg
Its worth remembering Johnson avoided any real debate where there was a moderator to keep things under control.
Johnsons debating skills relies on a supportive audience and no one with the authority to demand he answers the question.
IMHO his oratory skills are terribly overrated, he writes better but tbh reminds me of writing similar to Clarkson, which was vaguely entertaining 10-20 years ago.
He won the election by er not debating and repeating Get Brexit Done
Anyway, Rishi’s parents certainly did well sending their son to a school that was way beyond his station. It’s just a shame that he abandoned his background and started thinking he was better than his parents and their peers.
TBH going out with/marrying a billionaire’s daughter probably didn’t help.
I just wonder what they do with the money as we haven’t seen him driving a Ferrari or Lamborghini, what’s the point of it if you can’t have fun.
It would look a bit weird if instead of being chauffeur-driven in a bullet proof Range Rover the Prime Minister drove himself around in a Lamborghini surrounded by police outriders and followed by armed police in support vehicles.
It might well project an image of successful playboy but I am not entirely sure it's an image which the leader of the Conservative Party wants to project.
We have no idea what he spends his money on
He may leave Parliament every day and head straight to his underground sex dungeon, chock full of Russian hookers, rent boys, premium grade nosebag and sex toys, for wild, debauched orgies
He’s a Tory, so thats all pretty standard stuff
Well apparently he owns four homes spread across the UK and the US worth an estimated $18.3 million total.
Something which he never mentioned during his idle chit-chat with that homeless geezer who was hoping to get off the streets for Christmas.
And shoes. Apparently he spends a lot on shoes.
Apparently he spends a lot on shoes.
And getting his trousers shortened.
dudeofdoom
Full MemberHe won the election by er not debating and repeating Get Brexit Done
In fairness, that's a skill. Whether he learned it by cleverness or application or by simple repetition or luck, who knows, but he's good at saying nothing.
All this talk about Sunak’s background is a bit daft
Jeez..you guys need to get a grip...the effort you're putting in to arguing about whether a GP is middle class or upper middle class 😂🙄 ffs.
Whether the Prime Minister Rishi Sunak is out of touch with ordinary voters is a perfectly reasonable topic of discussion on a thread about Rishi Sunak.
The public seem to agree that it might be an issue:
"Nearly two-thirds of Britons believe mega-wealthy politicians ‘cannot identify with the experiences of ordinary Britons’, polling reveals"
The issue being discussed here is if the PM is indeed out of touch with your average punter whether this is because of his background and upbringing or because of marrying into extreme wealth. I suspect it is a bit of both although I'm not sure in what proportion - I don't know enough about Sunak nor am I likely to.
Having an affluent middle-class upbringing can definitely put you out of touch with millions of people, I don't think there is much doubt about that.
Having an affluent middle-class upbringing can definitely put you out of touch with millions of people, I don’t think there is much doubt about that.
Yup - we see it on here all the time and its obvious with politicians.
If I had not gone to the local comp but instead to the local posh fee paying school as i was offered by my parents I would have learnt less and if Mrs TJ had not spent her entire life working to alleviate poverty then i would have known less.
rubbing shoulders at school with folk from the schemes some of who became life long friends opened my eyes to a world outside the middle class enclave in which I lived and in which all my parents friends were
the best way to ensure social mobility would be to outlaw private schools. IIRC finland has done that????
If I hadn’t been raised by wolves in a cardboard box on the top of a windswept, rain lashed hillside in Bacup I doubt I’d have the same sensitivities I now possess, or my appetite for eating roadkill badgers
Yup TJ, it's only by interacting with other social classes that you can learn more about them, and their concerns and worries.
I come to stw to learn more about middle-class wallahs.
I come to stw to learn more about middle-class wallahs.
Weird aren't we 🙂
Whether the Prime Minister Rishi Sunak is out of touch with ordinary voters is a perfectly reasonable topic of discussion on a thread about Rishi Sunak.
Unsurprisingly, you're missing my point....you're splitting hairs over "middle class" and "upper middle class"....I know you lot could disappear up your own backsides arguing about it til the cows come home....
Unsurprisingly, you’re missing my point….
I understood the comment about alledgedly splitting hairs over whether a GP was middle-class or upper middle-class. I am just unconvinced that was the actual issue for you.
After all it had not been mentioned for quite a while and the discussion had clearly moved on when you decided to bring up the issue again.
Why would you do that when everyone had stopped discussing it?
And btw there is a very significant difference between lower middle-class and upper middle-class. As there is between affluent middle-class and poor middle-class. All of which is obviously significant to whether someone can afford to send their child to an elite public school.
Have you read diary of a nobody? Mr Pooter. A fine description of the struggles of the middle classes 🙂
alledgedly
😂
rubbing shoulders at school with folk from the schemes
It’s not quite Common People, but it’s still a great lyric.
😂
Hilarious maybe but alledgedly because it obviously isn't true.
Pointing out that there is a significant difference, for example, between a primary school teacher in some remote rural area and a city based commercial and corporate lawyer, despite the fact that they are both middle-class, isn't splitting hairs. It simply recognises that "middle-class" is a fairly vague term which doesn't necessarily mean that much in terms of salary and lifestyle.
Have you read diary of a nobody?
I haven't even heard of it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Diary_of_a_Nobody
Most of its humour derives from Charles Pooter's unconscious and unwarranted sense of his own importance, and the frequency with which this delusion is punctured by gaffes and minor social humiliations. In an era of rising expectations within the lower-middle classes.................Trouble with servants, tradesmen, and office juniors occur regularly, along with minor social embarrassments and humiliations.
Its just an amusing little tale to me and shows the imagined struggles of the lower or less affluent middle classes ( and indeed some wealthier ones) that persist to this day. sortof keeping up withthe Jones stuff and how this has such importance to some folk.
IMO Blair despite his wealth from an early age was infected by this hence his cultivation of and hobnobbing with the really wealthy and his drive for wealth - not for the wealth itself but because he craved that status
Thanks TJ. If ever I decide to research the history of middle-class angst I shall make a point of seeking Mr Pooter's diary 🙂
I see we're going to stop protests before they become protests just in case the protest causes an inconvenience (slightly facetious comment).
I'm pretty sure this is the same comment he used when trying to shutdown the unions.
Prime Minister Rishi Sunak said: "The right to protest is a fundamental principle of our democracy, but this is not absolute. A balance must be struck between the rights of individuals and the rights of the hard-working majority to go about their day-to-day business
hard-working majority
Yet another three letter slogan, Goebbels would be proud...
I’m pretty sure this is the same comment he used when trying to shutdown the unions.
Its just more of the same culture war nonsense
Little Rishi has decided that the way to go is macho posturing and take an openly confrontational approach to everyone the Daily Mail doesn't like.
It's literally all they've got. They're picking an awful lot of fights though. All of these new proposed laws will be opposed in the Lords, the courts etc, if they ever get further than Rishi announcing them, which I seriously doubt
I love the use of language.
"While we respect the right to protest ... WE'LL BE MAKING IT ILLEGAL"
"While we respect the right to strike ... WE'LL BE MAKING IT ILLEGAL"
You're not really respecting either then, are you?
The legislation they're proposing is so vague and broad-brush, in both instances, that the government will have free range to do whatever the hell they like really
The "hard-working majority" will show Sunak just what they think of his government, as soon as he finds the courage to go to the polls and ask them, or is forced to by the passing of time. Can't come soon enough.
There's already far too much on the statute book to prevent protest... no more is needed... bringing in anymore is just "virtue signalling" to make headlines and try and win back some voters... obviously needs to be paired with a whole lot of scare mongering about those who want to protest against the ongoing expansion of fossil fuel extraction and in favour of the energy saving measures than could make that less profitable for the fossil fuel industry (and increase quality of life for people, and decrease climate change causing pollution).
