[Closed] Religion...........?

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Forgive BD, Father, for he knows not what ants do.

I for one do understand the difference

Good. I'm not sure I do really I'm afraid. People who are arguing about whether the bible is god's autobiography are hiding it well if they do, though. 🙂

Ants carry out specific tasks unceasingly, and all mesh together to work perfectly and effectively. What controls and manages them all? It has been referred to as the 'hive mind' - the contributions of each tiny ant's thoughts making up a larger thinking capable being.

The 'hive mind' could be God, for the ants at least.

Antz = top film. Someone managed to persuade Hollywood to make a Marxist film without them noticing it. Love it 🙂 It even quotes Marx!

The 'hive mind' could be God, for the ants at least.

And this is how religion used to work for humans. It was a system that basically brought social cohesion. And to this end shows how religious belief can be a good thing.

It was a system that basically brought social cohesion

Yeah that's religion. Religion is something organised by humans. And often (frequently) subverted for control of others.

I am talking about the very nature of God though.

but which comes first god or religion?

Assuming god isn't a being but an ideology. Which you have to consider if you are talking about the nature of god

but which comes first god or religion?

God is someone lying on the grass, looking at the stars and going "who put that there?"

Religion(*) is a group of people going "ooh, we know, and if you don't agree with us we'll stone you to death."

(* - no actual religion implied, other religions are available.)

Assuming god isn't a being but an ideology

Well I would consider it more of a concept. Like 'God is love' or similar. If people base their life decisions around a shared idea then that idea is a reality of God.

Reality is a very fluid concept, you have to remember 🙂

But yes I'd agree with Cougar.

God is someone lying on the grass, looking at the stars and going "who put that there?"

Isn't that just someone lying on the grass?

In my view you can ask questions about why things 'are' without resorting to non-sayings like "god is love". To live and love is human, why does that have anything to do with any kind of god concept?

Am I too cynical? Will I die alone and unhappy? 😉

The point I was making is that I can't have a sensible conversation about what learned christians believe about the nature of heaven with GrahamS, because I don't really know what learned christians believe and neither does he.

and more to the point, why would you want to ? More interesting to discuss your own beliefs (if any)

We're conducting a debate on here without understanding (for example) the difference between biblical infallibility and inerrancy

were are? I think it fair to say you may be trying to but no one else is reciprocating 🙂 Whilst religions typically feature shared beliefs, faith does not require you to agree with everyone else of the same denomination, or even to know what they think about all (any?) topics.

Will I die alone and unhappy?

Yes, but that's unrelated to your religious beliefs. (-:

so far, everyone I thought to be putting forward religious views has gone on to claim to be an atheist, so perhaps the religionists are refusing to be drawn in, and the entire thread is as moot as Catholic priests discussing sex ? [intentional irony]

To live and love is human, why does that have anything to do with any kind of god concept?

I would consider it more of a concept. Like 'God is love' or similar

the religionists are refusing to be drawn in

I can't say I blame them [i]in the slightest[/i]. But yes. 🙂

so perhaps the religionists are refusing to be drawn in

Perhaps there not very good at discussing there beliefs as when discussed rationally and intellectually there are many holes that can't be filled without blind faith. Which can have the affect of strengthening someone’s belief or destroying it.

resorting to non-sayings like "god is love"

It's not really a non-saying. I am finding it a little hard to explain succinctly though 🙁 Maybe later.

Almost all British religious people (that I know) treat it as a fairly private matter (and rightly so), so don't bang on about it to their mates. This is at odds with Woppit's idea of legions of insistent evangelicals tho that I seem to remember from previous threads.

Perhaps there not very good at discussing there beliefs as when discussed rationally and intellectually there are many holes that can't be filled without blind faith

Perhaps they don't want to waste time arguing with ignorant folk who think they are superior and don't get it, never will get it and don't WANT to take the time to understand their point.

Perhaps there not very good at discussing there beliefs as when discussed rationally and intellectually there are many holes

I was thinking along similar lines. Once you have settled upon a relgion, you can get on with saying prayers, burning incense, interfering with children or growing a beard as prescribed without further troubling yourself with justifications or arguments.

Woppit's idea of legions of insistent evangelicals tho that I seem to remember from previous threads.

Nope. Either quote me or piss off.

Quote yourself!

I SEEM to remember that you were complaining about people always trying to convert others - however my memory is fallible.

Yay. The voice of reasoned argument and polite debate is amongst us again. 🙂

I SEEM to remember that you were complaining about people always trying to convert others - however my memory is fallible.

Now I'd like to see another thread where the relgious discuss atheism!

Perhaps they don't want to waste time arguing with ignorant folk who think they are superior and don't get it, never will get it and don't WANT to take the time to understand their point.

Exactly right. There are all sorts of religious people, obviously, and some of them are really quite bright and are not afraid to be challenged but this ain't really the place for that. Even so, in the past some have tried to discuss in a sensible manner but some of the more vocal Dawkins followers on here feel they are so superior and see believers as really just a bit dim who if they could just be logical for a moment would surely see the stupidity of their ways. As it happens the brightest guy I've ever met is a Christian - and I've met a lot of bright people.

It's worse than that, it's making itself up without your permission.

As most people's memories do. I'm trying to search to find the original thread.

so, have we decided which religion is the worst yet............ 🙄

If there were no religions, we'd have to invent some.

But who made God and who does God worship?

Mr and Mrs Cantona made Him and He worships nobody.

If there were no religions, we'd have to invent some.

Perhaps they don't want to waste time arguing with ignorant folk who think they are superior and don't get it, never will get it and don't WANT to take the time to understand their point.

Is this aimed at me? You are very wrong regarding this subject if it was.

I don't think christians or indeed jews believe that god actually wrote any part of the bible himself.

Many, many people believe the bible to be the divine word of god.
(I am not one of them)

Perhaps they don't want to waste time arguing with ignorant folk who think they are superior and don't get it, never will get it and don't WANT to take the time to understand their point.

Reminds me of the vegetarian discussion of a few days ago.

I can't find the one where Woppit talked about people trying to convert people.

Now Woppit knows what it's like to be defamed eh. I hope you're a bit upset about it.

So then, was there ever any point to this thread, other than an attempt at stirring up arguments? We go through this same old s**t on an all too regular basis, and to be frank, it never goes anywhere. I have stated quite openly in the past that I have faith, but dont feel that I have to justify it to a group of people that I dont really know, and by the same token, wouldnt expect any of the self proclaimed athiests on here to justify their belief systems (or lack of, whatever). Give it a rest, it got boring a long time ago.

I thought it was turning into an actual theological discussion for a while, which would have been interesting.. 🙁

Give it a rest, it got boring a long time ago.

I don't agree! If it were boring nobody would be posting 🙂

I thought it was turning into an actual theological discussion for a while, which would have been interesting.

ya think ??

😆

barnsleymitch

Sorry if anything I said offended you, it wasn't intentional. As molgrips said, there was almost real theological discussion for a while.

However, I can't help reading your post as 'well if you don't get it then that's your problem for being a stupid atheist'. I really would like to understand how and why all the above arguments do/don't impact on your faith?

Coming from a scientific perspective anyone who presents a logical argument or bit of evidence that disproves something I think will always have an impact on what I believe.

edit: if that's personal then that's fine, don't answer. Just don't get angry if people want to openly question religion or theology. We should be able to discuss our beliefs without offending you.

Can I just refer you to ton's insightful post at the top of this very page simon? rob, I wasnt offended by anything you'd said, it's just that we have this or similar threads on a very regular basis. Occasionally they have become quite poisonous, and for this reason alone, I get quite p****d off by them. I know it's a bit of an old chestnut, but live and let live, please.

dont feel that I have to justify it to a group of people that I dont really know

Personally I wasn't asking for any justification or the likes. I find it an interesting topic to discuss from any point of view. And have no issue with peoples beliefs as long as they know why they believe what they do.

Part of this, to me, is the ability to be able to discuss it (like an adult). Obviously t'internet is not the ideal place.

I thought it was turning into an actual theological discussion for a while, which would have been interesting.

Me to.

Can I just refer you to ton's insightful post at the top of this very page simon?

OK, I'll allow that [b]ton[/b]'s contributions have been dull, but we're used to that...

I've always found his use of the rolling eyes emoticon original, varied and thought-provoking...

😆

Mitch has discussed his faith in more detail on other threads, but he gets such grief over it I don't think he fancies it again. If he doesn't want to go into it, you have to respect that do you not?

we have this or similar threads on a very regular basis.

So? It's an important (and interesting!) issue. If [b]you[/b] don't want to contribute then that's A-OK.

Occasionally they have become quite poisonous

Obviously that is bad, but I wasn't aware this thread was becoming malicious.

🙂