[Closed] Recommend me a good winter hiking boot and crampons

I'm a little behind the times now on climbing kit but know there's a few on here.

UK climbing website is always worth a look.

If you haven't already then spend your money on a skills course instead. They'll also advise you on buying kit.

3-season boots won't be stiff enough even with a flexible crampon.

Silly question: do you have an ice-axe and some experience using crampons and ice-axes? If not a winter skills course would be a better investment of your cash. If you do then pop into your local outdoor shop (a serious one, so not Blacks or Millets)

Get the boots that fit, then get crampons of a matching rating. A B1 boot will accept C1 crampons (strap only), B2 will take C1 and C2 (step in at back, strap front) and B3 will take all crampons. However B3 are stiffer and suited to climbing more than walking or general mountaineering.

I have Scarpa Mantas, which were ancient when I got them, and Grivel Airtechs. These have shorter front points than G12s so are better for walking and all round usage.

Ive got a course booked with plas y brenin next month.

Thanks alasdair, ill have a look at the mantas and grivel.

I'm going to contradict the above and suggest that you might well be fine with the boots you've got. I'm sure that's about what I would have been using when I first did some winter walking, using the old (cheap) hinged-style crampons with straps. Depends on how stiff the boots are including how stout the leather is for tightening the straps. Back in the day they were rated in terms of 3/4 shank or whatever. I assume you are talking about coping with steep/icy slopes not front-pointing up some ice climb.

The old hinged crampons work pretty well with a moderately flexible boot IME, the two ends are solidly strapped onto the sole and the hinge means they don't pull off when you walk. More hi-tech designs are more demanding.

BTW some simple ice axe training under supervision is a pre-requisite for all of the above. I hope you already have done this.

I would borrow from [s]Plastic Bread Bin[/s] Plas y Brenin for the course. They will have different boots and crampons to try - and first hand, up to date advice on what to buy.

3-season boots won't be stiff enough even with a flexible crampon.

I've used walking crampons on trainers so I'm sure they'd be fine on walking boots.

You need to make sure crampons fit well with whatever boots you have. However, I've had these on all sorts of footwear from trainers through walking boots to ski boots:

http://www.cotswoldoutdoor.com/grivel-monta-rosa-new-classic-crampon-f1a32086?id_colour=180

I've always liked Grivel and also have Airtechs for less than extreme hiking/easy mountaineering. I use Asolo boots, an older model but very similar to the Trekker GV by the looks of the new range.

I've used walking crampons on trainers so I'm sure they'd be fine on walking boots.

will eventually snap the crampon.

Not with a flexible crampon. Done it for years and know plenty of others who do the same. It does of course depend on exactly what you are doing but for simple winter walking a flexible crampon will work fine on a decent walking boot.

dyls - Plays y Brenin are very good. Just use their kit, follow their advice and once you get your experience you'll be able to judge what you need. Until you're really confident with a lot of experience, don't fanny around with your kit, follow tried & tested boots & crampons.

Yeah, there are crampons on the market now that can cope with the flex of a 3 season boot, and my 3 season Alt Bergs are plenty stiff enough to kick steps and edges on hard snow, so I'd argue you only needed winter boots and crampons if you wanted to be able to front point.

On the flip side, if you CAN afford it then having the ability to front point up stuff is nice, means you're not as restricted as to what route to take up the hill.

Interesting advice I was given was that an axe is more important than crampons anyway. Crampons can get you into trouble but only an axe can get you out of trouble was the logic I think...

if just walking, basic instep crampons might suffice?

Interesting advice I was given was that an axe is more important than crampons anyway. Crampons can get you into trouble but only an axe can get you out of trouble was the logic I think.

This is correct. Venturing onto snow or ice where crampons are necessary without an axe is asking for trouble.

As above, get yourself some decent boots and borrow PyB hardware to start off with.

I have scarpa boots and black diamond crampons and axes. Charlet Moser super12 used to be great all rounder (I wore mine to stubs) but they don't appear to exist anymore. A 12 point crampon that's not too aggressive will serve you well up to grade III winter and AD+ alpine. Get them with an anti ball plate as well, invaluable in UK clag. I personally would only recommend a short axe, even for walking.

A 12 point crampon that's not too aggressive will serve you well up to grade III winter and AD+ alpine

I'm sure it will (and even further with the right boots) but the OP asked about basic winter walking for which a flexible walking crampon will be better. Lighter, better fit on walking boots, probably cheaper and with shorter points so easier to walk in.

A classic case of just recommending what you've got!

Wasnt actually recommending what I had, Just stating what I currently have, I even deliberately didn't mention any models of anything for that reason.

I was aware they said basic walking, but they're going on a PyB course so it's fair to assume that they may wish to progress beyond basic. I merely suggest a crampon that you can walk in but also good for basic mountaineering and even beyond.

As above, the skills course will be just as much benefit as the gear - it will give you a lot of confidence in your ability to cope with winter terrain - as well as a feel for the right gear.

FWIW I think your boot is likely to be able to take a walking crampon well enough for basic uk winter hillwalking. My old 3-season Meindls were more than enough.

[img] [/img]

This is Cym Idwal at Easter 2013 after a superb dump of snow. One of the best winter days out I've ever had. It's just up the road from Plas Y Brenin so you may well end up in stuff like that if the weather's right. Walking crampons would've got you along the flat bit by the lake but the second the path hits the headwall you'd be dangerously ill-equipped...

I wouldn't recommend that kind of terrain in those kind of conditions without proper 4 season boots, crampons, axe and ability to use them...

Personally if you're an absolute beginner I'd stop taking advice on here and give the guys at Plas Y Brenin a call and have a follow up chat face to face and if you want to buy something while you're there, pop into Joe Browns in Capel Curig and get some proper expert advice

Walking crampons would've got you along the flat bit by the lake but the second the path hits the headwall you'd be dangerously ill-equipped

Horses for courses innit? I don't know that area but it looks like a little more involved than basic winter walking and so might need different kit. I do find the 'dangerously ill' equipped comment a bit odd though. With stiffer boots, walking crampons like those I've recommended should see you through to some fairly technical ground like Striding Edge or the Carn Mor Dearg Arete.

why crampons for hiking

would snowshoes be better suited?

[url= http://www.decathlon.co.uk/trango-s-evo-gtx-boots-id_8310116.html?iv_=__iv_p_1_g_25792502936_c_93735721136_w_aud-106574585328:pla-158275425176_n_g_d_c_v__l__t__r_1o1x_pla_y_15177021_f_online_o_154464_z_GB_i_en_j_158275425176_s__e__h_9046596_ii__vi__&gclid=Cj0KEQiA6_TBBRDInaPjhcelt5oBEiQApPeTF7LBQAYai9fezohjiVx3XrKZCJYWjpTupqBDpbeepFQaApf48P8HAQ ]I just bought some of these[/url]. Focused a bit more on the climbing/scrambling side but they're ideal for winter walking.

dyls - can Plas y Brenin loan you the boots for the skills course? If yes then just put yourself in their experienced hands, get recommendations and then go across the road to Joe Brown shop to buy your kit.

why crampons for hiking

would snowshoes be better suited?

Years ago I have used some pretty cheap old strap on crampons on softish boots for approaches in the Alps. They did the job. However, even somewhere like Wales (see the Idwal shot) snow and ice conditions can change dramatically in yards (there was "that day" on Elidir Fawr!). I'm very happy to be "overbooted" with my Scarpa Mantas and step ins. As above you need to know how to use an axe, you WILL find yourself step cutting having put off getting your on crampons early enough! Trekking poles are useful on easy terrain.

I'm sure it will (and even further with the right boots) but the OP asked about basic winter walking for which a flexible walking crampon will be better. Lighter, better fit on walking boots, probably cheaper and with shorter points so easier to walk in.

Yep, for basic winter walking, just get a flexible crampon with baskets at both end, so they'll fit any boot. You don't need a B2/B3 stiffened boot unless you're climbing / front pointing a lot.

I've got a few pairs, but just bought these for winter walking as they're super light weight. They're an aluminium light weight walking crampon, for occasional use eg walking in the UK hills in winter, where they're really isn't that much snow and ice, but you may need them for a short stretch or two on a day's walk. I'll just strap them over my approach shoes.

[img] [/img]

Unless you're in the Cairngorms / Ben Nevis you really don't need 12 point crampons and £250 1kg B3 boots, you'd just be carrying a load of unnecessary weight.

If you haven't already then spend your money on a skills course instead. They'll also advise you on buying kit.

Well I did the Glenmore lodge course and no kit was recommended, so I'm not sure that is necessarily true.

Well I did the Glenmore lodge course and no kit was recommended, so I'm not sure that is necessarily true.

They don't recommend kit. What they have in stores is normally several years old and you won't necessarily be able to buy that model any more. To be honest, all you need for winter walking is a 55cm walking axe and some flexible crampons. Modern basket crampons will fit over just about any boot. Gone are the days when you had to have boots with a steel shank in them and ledges at either end. What you really want is hob nail boots, they were probably the ideal winter walking footwear.

just reading back thru others posts, I actually was suggesting pretty much the same ie a flexible crampon with front points.
To me, walking crampons look like this:
[img] [/img]
To me, anything with forwards front points is a mountain crampon.

I also wouldn't go out in anything other than at least a semi rigid boot, you can't kick steps or edge on consolidated snow in soft flexible 3 season boots.

at the end of the day, it depends on what the OP has aspirations of.

I prefer basket crampons where the toe strap links to the ankle strap, that way it's much harder for the toe to come off on flexible boots. Also those click lock things aren't that secure, esp as the plastic gets very brittle in low temps and one knock could shatter it. I wouldn't recommend those at all....

Most crampons have a metal buckle where the tape goes through two rings, back over itself. Very secure and very hard to damage even if you bash it into rocks intentionally.

ell I did the Glenmore lodge course and no kit was recommended, so I'm not sure that is necessarily true

Well I did the course at Gelnmore Lodge and they were more than happy to discuss what kit to buy and how to decide. Selection of kit is the first bullet point on the winter skills course. Did you ask?

I have some good 3 season meindl boots - is it best to stick with this make or aree ther other goods ones out as well. Dont want to spend more than £200 on the boots and around £100 on crampons if possible.

I bought some Scarpa 3 seasons after an hour trying on different boots and standing on an angled surface to check heel lift and the like at what now appears to be The Climber's Shop in Stony Stratford. Very glad I did - fantastic boots for my feet, and it turns out the boots I was originally going to buy rubbed.

On that note, I'd go to a proper independent and try on as many pairs as you can.

What size are you?
I've got some Zamberlans I bought for an icy trip that I'm unlikely to use again.

The comment about B1/C1 is a good starting point: the number following the B should be greater than or equal to that following the C, so B2/C2 is OK but B2/C3 isn't. For walking boots get crampons with straps, step-in systems (similar to how ski bindings operate) won't work on flexible boots. For walking you don't need full-on mountaineering crampons anyway.

Also budget for a walking axe. The PyB course will give you tips on using it. Walking with crampons is hard work and awkward, make that very awkward if it's rocky, so unless the snow conditions require it you tend not to use them for much of the time, it's only when the snow gets hard enough that you can't make a step that you need crampons. The axe comes in useful when you are walking in softish snow and you come to a short section of ice across the path - rather than stop, put on crampons, cross the ice, stop, take crampons off, you just cut small steps/nicks in the ice with the axe to get you across. When to put crampons on; take them off; use the axe comes with experience.

Just for info: climbing/mountaineering used to be my main (only) sport for over thirty years. Managed to get quite a bit done on hills big and small.

[img] [/img]

this is what modern snowshoes look like with big metal spiky bits underneath

The only thing to keep in mind is that all of the walking boot companies use a different style of Last - Scarpa used to be the widest as standard with a moderate volume ankle - Meindl are similar but with a slightly lower volume ankle. Zamberlan always used to be low volume across the foot.
If you've got Meindl and they are comfortable then sticking with that brand is probably a good bet. It used to be the Bhurma that was the B1 grade boot - not sure now though. Its a long time since my "boot fitting courses". 4 season boots take a hell of a lot longer to break in than 3 season (months not weeks of use)

4 season boots take a hell of a lot longer to break in than 3 season (months not weeks of use)

If you really need 4 season boots, just buy some Plastic boots with a separate inner. You can walk in/out with the outer undone, so the inner moves about and gives lots of ankle movement and then lace the outer up when you put crampons on. More comfortable than any leather 4 season boot that I've found.

My favourite winter boots were Scarpa Vegas (in original pink)

[img] [/img]

But they're a mountaineering boot, total overkill for walking.

I had koflach back in the day

why crampons for hiking

would snowshoes be better suited?

They're not much cop in the UK for a number of reasons. The snow is often not deep enough for them to be of use and when it is you can usually pick an alternative route up a wind blown ridge to avoid the deep stuff. They're also much heavier and difficult to use on the kind of steep or rocky terrain that many walking / scrambling routes follow. I know a few folks that got snow shoes to access the backcountry in the UK with their snowboards and after a few goes they either reverted to walking or bought a split board.

f you really need 4 season boots, just buy some Plastic boots with a separate inner.

The 80's called, they want their boots back. 😉

I've had some plastic boots I really liked but things have moved on a bit since then.

I've got some Salomon B3 boots (probably about 17 years old now and sadly underused lately) and they are actually surprisingly not-uncomfortable to walk in.

You need to be confident that you're going to get the use out of stuff like that though for the investement you're making.

Wow, what a car crash of a thread... I'd suggest you visit a decent outdoors shop and tell them what you're actually planning on doing / aspiring to and have a think. Somewhere like Outside in Hathersage rather than a London-based chain.

Modern flexi crampons with the cradle-type plastic fittings will work on quite flexible boots for walking and won't break ime. They won't, however, allow you to front point, but for walking - yes, even including the extreme horrors of the Devil's Kitchen path - they will do fine and will probably work with your current boots.

What three season boots won't do, which proper winter ones will, is kick steps into hard snowpacks / nevé, which will save you time on easier ground and be quicker than using crampons in some circumstances.

For walking boots get crampons with straps,

You'll be lucky if you can find crampons with straps, you want the cradle-type attachments, Grivel calls their's New Classic, but everyone pretty much uses them now. Much faster and easier than classic straps and don't cut off your circulation.

This is indeed like going back to the 80s... things have changed a little since then 😉

Wow, what a car crash of a thread.

Oh come on it's not that bad, just the usual sort of thing, people getting confused by using different names for the same thing, recommending what they've got rather than what's needed, overplaying the equipment requirements for a given activity, suggesting wholly inappropriate kit and giving well meaning but out of date advice.

I've rather enjoyed it.

🙂

It was a journey back through time... I was waiting for someone to recommend tricounis and a stout, ash-shafted walking axe with a head optimised for step-cutting. Oh, and a Kapok-lined, war-surplus flying suit.

Meanwhile, somewhere in the Alps, Killian Jornet is running up 4,000m peaks wearing a pair of Salomon S-LAB X Alp Carbons because he couldn't find any plastic boots his size.