After the nuclear winter has passed, the only building standing will be Fortress Footlaps.
NORAD will be flattened, but Fortress Footflaps will still be standing.
p.s [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheyenne_Mountain_nuclear_bunker ]NORAD[/url] is built under a friggin' mountain.
Cheers Matt, looking for long fixings was next on my to-do list....
manufacturers details apparently,had it pointed out to me by building control surveyor
Nothing in the 96 page product guide building control gave me when I asked about it. I did all my U value calculations using Celotex's online calculators and it was quite happy with 100mm block.
The only possible relevant reference, in the 96 page guide, is: "Please note that where existing walls are subject to the ingress of excessive moisture, it is recommended that Celotex PL4000 should be installed using mechanical fixings rather than a direct bonding technique."
*glitchy bump*
Jeez that celotex must of cost more than my garage
Pink? I don't geddit? It's twistin my melon man
Footflaps, how much has it all cost?
"something insane like..".
Bike shed (over)built by a Footflaps ancestor a long time ago:
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Must be into at least week 13 of this build (mega-structure)
having not really looked since page 2... did he sack the first brickie? This thread needs a "Previously on Rate my Brickie" at the top of each page
Don't listen to them Footflaps, I love your bunker.
Seriously, great thread - over engineering porn.
having not really looked since page 2... did he sack the first brickie?
Yes. The replacement was most excellent.
It's twistin my melon man
You know you talk so hip man
I'm having a large episode of Man-Jealousy towards your workshop flaps!! It makes my new 18' cedar workshop look very insignificant!!
On the plus side, I ordered it after you started, and have been in for nearly 2 months 🙂
OK, Thanks to matt_outandabout , I've been looking at fixings and have found a whole range which mean I can fix 150mm Celotex + 12.5mm plasterboard direct to concrete with no stud framework:
200 of something similar to these turn up tomorrow (215mm long, 10mm pilot hole in concrete and hammer in).
[url= http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8349/8261648402_cb08b87301.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/8261648402/ ]Untitled[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/brf/ ]brf[/url], on Flickr
Footflaps, you are having a 'Grand opening' when its done? 🙂
These grand projects are never really finished, they just slow down exponentially as the 'designer' gets worn down by the whole thing...
Flaps, those fixings are great. I have used those for 150mm insulation loads of times and they are really fast and easy.
Very strong too. Get a slightly smaller pilot bit just in case though, depending on the substrate a smaller hole than specced sometimes works better.
And don't forget to tape over the heads 😉
And don't forget to tape over the heads
For airtightness? We did not bother in woodfibre...
They are fab things and much under-known about. None of this daft dot n dab or studding out.
Can you put some pics up of those fixing things in action can't get my head around the collar bit unless it comes off?
Go steady with the drill, set a depth guide up or youll be through the other side!
I'll try them out in the spare blocks I have first to suss them out. Will post lots of photos. I'll tape over the heads and then skim over the lot (but probably not this side of xmas for the skiming).
collar bit unless it comes off?
If you mean the plastic circle thing - that stays in the foam, slightly indented, to spread the load. Anything narrower will just pull through as the foam is so soft.
NB Had the PB lined Celotex boards arrive today and I can't carry them on my own as their weight to strength ratio was too high so my hand pulled through the board when I upped them on one edge to get through gates, leaving a massive hand sized dent in the side of them. Have to be carried by two people to spread the load enough to not deform them. Mrs FF was very helpful and shifted 28 of them with me into the WS. The first two I did on my own and are hand print deformed.
[url= http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8063/8261465630_ce9edcde95.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/8261465630/ ]Plaster Board backed Celotex (PB4050) arriving - two palletes worth![/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/brf/ ]brf[/url], on Flickr
Go steady with the drill, set a depth guide up or youll be through the other side!
I think my DeWalt SDS is dying, as it really struggles with the concrete blocks, so over drilling is not a concern at the moment. It really didn't like fitting the fixings for the door - 150mm x M10 was really slowing it down.
Can you put some pics up of those fixing things in action can't get my head around the collar bit unless it comes off?
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[/img]As said above, drill with depth stop/guage, hold up insulation board, drill holes (usually 5 per board, then screw in fixing and pop wee insulated end cap over screw head to prevent cold spots in plaster or render.
OK, fixings have arrived:
You drill a 10mm hole 50mm into the concrete, push outer (white) nylon shank into the hole (through 165mm of Celotex) and then hammer the orange rod in to splay the end of the shank and fix it in the concrete.
[url= http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8487/8267081140_7a2621f6f9.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/8267081140/ ]Celotex fixing bolts[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/brf/ ]brf[/url], on Flickr
Will see how many I can get done tonight!
To take this thread back to the OP and talk of brickies, I encountered a guy towards the less productive end of the scale today. I teach guitar in a variety of school, the school that I teach at today is having the existing arts block extended. Today there we're architects/engineers/builder types in assessing the current structure. At some point the builder removed 4 breeze blocks from a wall to check what insulation was in place (at least I think that was why they were removed). At 1.30 I had to teach in the room where the blocks had removed, and a few minutes into my first lesson, the builder (who was a lovely chap!) popped in to replace the 4 blocks that he had removed. I left school at 3 to go and teach elsewhere and he'd only managed to put two in! 🙂
You're insulating inside and out with celotex?
Jesus man! What U value are you aiming to hit?!
The OP is only insulating inside - that pic is one from net to show how the fixings work.
Seriously tho flaps set the drill guide accurately to say 55 mm and clean each hole out thoroughly. You head to the latter stages of the 60mms and you will undoubtedly be requiring some render and more pink paint!!
Ah, thanks. Missed that bit.
Got a roof on yet?
Bruneep, exterior was completed a few weeks back, insulation and fitting doors are the current tasks.
[url= http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8059/8266975208_b6e5d00555.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/8266975208/ ]Workshop front[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/brf/ ]brf[/url], on Flickr
Did all the complete sheets (13) tonight, the rest all involve cuts, which I'll leave for the WE.
[url= http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8224/8268439018_4646af8891.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/8268439018/ ]12 Dec 2012 20:17[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/brf/ ]brf[/url], on Flickr
Have you in built an electronic safe into the floor for contraband items? That'd be cooooool.
The whole building is a safe!
I don't fancy cutting into the floor, it's rather well built!
[url= http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8302/7986444405_b86fdb5ed9.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/7986444405/ ]Pumping concrete[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/brf/ ]brf[/url], on Flickr
F@@@ing new page glitch!
The whole building is a safe!
True. When his insurance company see it, they will pay HIM money to store his bikes in there.
glitchy bump
*Glitchy doo-daa*
Edit: I think that got it guys. Good job!
and again
[edit] we end up with more glitch bumps than posts after the first 10 pages.
This is all insanity taken to the next level.... i'm truely truely bemused by it all.
This is all insanity taken to the next level.... i'm truely truely bemused by it all.
Just wait till I add the swimming pool for the sharks with lazer beams on their heads...
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Should have built a spiral cellar into the floor
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Isn't that beam going to be a massive cold bridge?
Isn't that beam going to be a massive cold bridge?
Probably - will get boxed in at some point.
EDIT: Won't be that massive as the edge surface area is tiny.
<slight highjack>What do you do about cables/sockets if you use Celotex boards? Presumably they're a potential air leak and heat bridge. I know there must be a good answer but at 04:00 in bed this morning I couldn't think of it.</slight highjack>
surface mount them in boxes?
As it's a workshop, I'm going to surface mount all the electrics as I don't care if it's not flush. You can get recessed sockets etc for insulation and it wouldn't make a significant difference in the overall U value for the whole building, but that would involve knowing where I want all the lights etc before I insulated, and I haven't thought about that yet....
I know there must be a good answer but at 04:00 in bed this morning I couldn't think of it.
Hmm you too? I thought I was the only one lying awake at night thinking about what to do next / how to do it.....
Geeky info on the insulation fixings - found the data sheet:
[url= http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8069/8268593975_4c298f3dc0.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/8268593975/ ]Spit ISO Insulation Anchor[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/brf/ ]brf[/url], on Flickr
Tonight's activity was fitting the RSD. Total PITA as the instructions were next to useless and the motor roller is too wide for the opening, so either one of the guides is bent, or the shutter can pop out.
[url= http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8084/8270112985_94092109b7.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/8270112985/ ]'Auto-Roll' Roller Shutter Door Installed[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/brf/ ]brf[/url], on Flickr
Are you running a business out of the workshop or just for day to day stuff ?
[i]Are you running a business out of the workshop or just for day to day stuff ? [/i]
It's literally a bike shed.
Total PITA as the instructions were next to useless and the motor roller is too wide for the opening, so either one of the guides is bent, or the shutter can pop out.
Didn't it arrive as a plug and play, pre assembled unit?
Who did the measuring? I'm not sure what the problem with the guides is either.
Who did the measuring? I'm not sure what the problem with the guides is either.
I measured the opening and they cut the thing to size and deliver it in parts:
[url= http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8499/8265911753_bbd40c02e8.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/8265911753/ ]Roller Shutter Door[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/brf/ ]brf[/url], on Flickr
The problem is, they don't cut the motor to size, but (I guess) have a range of set length and each motor roller has a bar on one side which slides in and out to allow flexibility for a range of openings.
However this one is too wide for the opening (ie the adjuster bar doesn't retract enough) so the right hand flag pole bracket is pushed right out at the top, twisting the frame. The spacing of the vertical tracks is specified at shutter width + 40mm, which is what I've installed it at. To fit the motor, it needs to be +60mm, which will reduce the shutter overlap in the guide rails from 20mm to 10mm, which would be quite easy to pry out. I may dismantle the whole thing and cut the expansion bar in the roller.
As for the electrics - no instructions, 4 wires (coloured) and a PCB with non-colour, non-industry standard labels (NB I am a Chartered Electronic Design Engineer, so do know about these things). I just applied pot luck and guessed ok first time - but pretty shoddy as all they needed was a piece of paper with 4 lines on it...
I wouldn't recommend Auto-roll to anyone.
Are you running a business out of the workshop or just for day to day stuff ?
I went for the RSD for security and also, 'out of sight, out of mind'. The main door is a glass patio door for light and convenience. The RSD is just to close at night for security.
These get fitted at the WE:
[url= http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8216/8265907295_d801345ec6.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/8265907295/ ]Doors....[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/brf/ ]brf[/url], on Flickr
Good God, that is by far BY FAR the most "over the top" bike shed i have ever seen EVER, it must be costing a fortune! well done, I am very impressed!
I'm not too clear on the problem, but it sounds like the laths are too short, no?
That is to say that the minimum width is determined by the motor (and weight of shutter) and not the opening. The guides and laths should fit this and would be oversize for the specified opening.
Get back on to the supplier with this and tell them that as they are the experts they should have pointed this out. You relied on their expert opinion and they gave bad advice. It shouldn't require any more than a new set of laths.
That depends on whether I have understood correctly or not. Photos of the problem would be good.
It is a bit of a nightmare doing these things on line though.
Either way I have to take it all down, it which case I may as well cut 20mm off the motor axle expansion bar thing and re-fit it. Quicker and less hassle than them sending me a new motor roller....
As for taking it all down, putting it all up - the shutter door is a two man lift and has to be held up vertically to be bolted to the motor roller, requiring a third set of hands. Mrs FF and I managed it with a make shift hoist, some blood loss, a lot of swearing and then a lot of chastising over my swearing. Not something I'm looking forward to again....
Are you accessing the cave via an underground tunnel, or are the doors just laid on the grass?
Either way I have to take it all down, it which case I may as well cut 20mm off the motor axle expansion bar thing and re-fit it. Quicker and less hassle than them sending me a new motor roller....
Not good however you look at it.
Are you accessing the cave via an underground tunnel, or are the doors just laid on the grass?
I've installed ICBMs in the lawn as a deterrent, the doors are just until the proper steel launch doors arrive for the ICBM chambers...
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As for the workshop, this is how it should look after the first fit:
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Should've went for the Titan 3 🙄
Footflaps, pm me if you need help with the RSD, I have been fitting and selling industrial doors inc. the RSD type you have for over 20 years, I will help you if needed.
For the record, thats how a RSD is delivered, bundles of 6-8 lath and you put the sections on one by one by bending one of teh nylon endlocks to the side and then slide the other section in.
The lath is a standard 75mm 22 swg scrolled type, side guides look a bit cheap and flimsey. i cant see the motor to comment on it.
easy way to install the RSD with no instructions is measure overall the nylon endlocks on the lath and they fix the sideguide angles about 30 mm wider than this measurement. Make sure they are plumb and sqaure. Drop the barrell in the cups on the endplates and then fix that lath in sections as I mentioned starting from the top. Its V important that the first section of lath is fitted square and level on the barrell as the rest of the door curtain with roll up on the p155 and "bag up" and jam. Last thing is to fit the guides to the guide angles and set the motor limits. That size door is 1.5 hr job max.
Agreeded about Autoroll in the NE, they "used" to be one of my customers, as i used to supply them parts to manufature and repair doors. No further comments needed.
easy way to install the RSD .......
Thanks! I have no sussed it all out, just it would have been nice to have had decent instructions with it....
The hardest bit was lifting the whole thing up to bolt to the motor, using just the edges of the shutter. How do you do it?
Tonight I'll fit an eye bolt into the blocks above it, so I can just take the weight on a rope and haul it up and down rather than trying to hold it in place and bolt it all whilst two people are standing on a step ladder.
Should've went for the Titan 3
I found a second hand Titan 2 kit on Ebay going cheap. Only fired once - seemed like a bargain to me.....
How do you do it?
You could mount the guides to the end plates to form a big U.
With two people simply lift into place and screw down.
footflaps - Membereasy way to install the RSD .......
Thanks! I have no sussed it all out, just it would have been nice to have had decent instructions with it....
The hardest bit was lifting the whole thing up to bolt to the motor, using just the edges of the shutter. How do you do it?
Tonight I'll fit an eye bolt into the blocks above it, so I can just take the weight on a rope and haul it up and down rather than trying to hold it in place and bolt it all whilst two people are standing on a step ladder.
Not 100% sure what you mean. If you have already installed the two side guides, you then need to fit the barrell next. You do this (with a small door like yours)by putting two ladders between the guides resting on the lintol and two people put the barrell in there arms like a baby, walk up the ladders together and then drop the barrell shaft into the cups on the endplates. Make sure their is some type of fixing that stops the barrell shaft coming out of the shaft when operating, this would be a disaster if it came out. We used to sell this type of door upto 7 m square!!! Imagine the size and weight of the barrell 7 metres long to stop the deflection, it was a hard days graft fitting them!!
Re. the above fixing info, I am assuming than the endplates are already bolted, welded to the side guide angles (they should be) These are known as flag guides, as they look like falgs when you stand them up to fix them to the structure.
Not 100% sure what you mean.
Installation order was:
1) Flag poles into wall
2) Roller motor into flag poles
That was all quite straightforward. Hard bit was lifting the whole 2.5m roller shutter up to the barrel to bolt in place. Heavy and hard to grip as you need one person each side, on step ladders (we only had one).
*glitch bump*
glitchy bump
bump x2
bump x3
What's with the whole 'Slow down you move to fast' nonsense - you need 3-4 extra posts just to get the next page to work properly......
Concur with Kingkong.
I've been fitting RSD's for about 15 years too.
Quick vid on mounting guides and box.
Good God, this things is a fortress. Do you have even a tiny bit of doubt in your mind that it might be slightly overkill?
Is there not a risk that a master burglar will try to rob you just for the challenge, bit like in Oceans 11?
Edit (still love it though, well done!)
davidjones15 - Member
Good video and try. But wrong type of RSD, wrong application for an industrial type roller shutter for the "mega structure!"
Do you have even a tiny bit of doubt in your mind that it might be slightly overkill?
It is a project, rather than a means to an end, plus I already have a wooden shed, so thought I'd try something a bit different....