Do public servants see themselves as a different class of person to the rest of us?
Yes, ones without company cars, annual or performance bonuses, no perks or company credit cards, inflation only pay rises even when times are good.
I work in the private sector, have done all my career. This year, no pay rise, big deal.
Probably not a big deal to you because you already earn more than you would in the public sector anyway.
If you don't like it, change your career, but then you'll complain when your private sector employer doesn't give you a pay rise!
Works both ways, feel free to join the CS doing a job as dull as ditch water for much less money.
45 minutes later, still no email from Dr Dolittle...If you're scared you can bring Aziz as well
I don't get why public servants moan. They're obviously not well qualified otherwise they would have gone into Banking/Law/Accounting/Proper Job etc etc..
Dave will complete Margaret's work when he smashes the rest of the Unions and the Public Sector joins the real world
I think DaveB's in need of help!
crikey - Member
Get a real job!Enlighten us all lovey, what exactly do you do?
...and how much do you get paid?
...and how long have you been doing said job?
...and how much training did it require?
...and how much responsibility does it involve?
Ducked out from the awkward questions again?
Not ducking, just our for a pint...
i) a trade relevant to this site
ii) under 25k, from which I took a 10k pay cut to work in this trade - If I can take a 10K pay cut to do a job I want to, you can accept a pay freeze to stay in the job you're in, or if you're not happy taking that, go and do something completely different instead
iii) 2 years, after a previous 12 year career, see, you can teach an old dog new tricks
iv) I'm one of only two people in the country trained to do my job, previous job one of only a few hundred in the UK with the licences to do the job and in permanent demand.
v) Multi million £ turnover with a slack handful of 6 figure clients who I handle the accounts for.
So,if you don't want to take the pay freeze, hand in your notice and walk!
and we're double figures percentage points ahead of budget
I don't get why public servants moan. They're obviously not well qualified otherwise they would have gone into Banking/Law/Accounting/Proper Job etc etc..
I know those dumb ass doctors what were they thinking of with all those amoral professions to join.
Doctors, are the reverse 1% though. Show me a doctor who earns less than £150k per annum
Or all those under qualified teachers, surveyors, accountants, lawyers, nurses, archaeologists etc, what were they thinking?
#Puts "Tramp the dirt down" on the stereo and sits in his self-satisfied guardian reading, trade union supporting smugness 😉
45 minutes later, still no email from Dr Dolittle..
That's because I turned up and you chickened out...again...
[img] 
?t=1254956241[/img]
Most GPs, junior doctors, or anyone not a senior consultant you mean?
Junior doctorsJunior doctors earn a basic salary and will usually be paid a supplement. This supplement is based on the extra hours worked above a 40 hour standard working week and the intensity of the work. The most common banding supplement is 50% of basic salary. In the most junior hospital doctor post (foundation year 1) a doctor on a 50% supplement would earn £33,285. This increases in the second year (foundation year 2) to £41,285. A doctor in specialist training on a 50% supplement could earn from £44,117 to £69,369.
Specialty doctor and associate specialist (2008) (SAS doctors)
Doctors in the new specialty doctor grade earn between £36,443and £67,959. See www.nhsemployers.org/sas for more details.
Consultants
Consultants can earn between £74,504 to £176,242, dependent on length of service and payment of additional performance related awards.
General practitioners
Many general practitioners (GPs) are self employed and hold contracts, either on their own or as part of a partnership, with their local primary care trust (PCT). The profit of GPs varies according to the services they provide for their patients and the way they choose to provide these services.
Salaried GPs employed directly by PCTs earn between £53,249 to 80,354, dependent on, among other factors, length of service and experience.
from [url= http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/details/Default.aspx?Id=553 ]here[/url], so quite a lot of them.
fine, a well paid job, but not 150k+, and considering the time, effort and expense training, why not pay them well. after all, where would we be without them.
I'm a doctor and I earn considerably less than 150k
The ones that really wind me up are all the chinless local council employees.
I wouldn't bother answering Lanesra - he is an ignorant poor quality troll. Its a waste of time
🙄 As I said Dolittle (lots of times before) my emails in my profile, mail me and we'll meet up, or are you that much of a pussy
PS meta data in your picture 😉
I wouldn't bother answering Lanesra - he is an ignorant poor quality troll. Its a waste of time
Maybe so, but is it a waste of my time fighting him? I've been trying for ages, but he keeps missing appointments and crying "patsy's paps, patsy's paps" everytime he surfaces.
I suspect dr dolittle it is - his skull will be too thick to knock any sense into and his mind and ears are closed.
tinribz - I don't have a company car, or company credit card. I do earn an annual bonus, and I earn over $180K/yr.
I also studied for a long time, worked in this career for over twenty years, and left the UK, just to earn what I get.
So why should I quit this to become a public service whinger in the UK? 😆
You still lying dolittle 🙄 Tell you what seeing as you're to scared to mail me or meet in Islington, how about the Hobgoblin, Balcombe Street tomorrow 1pm
Or, I could pop round to Aziz's
Either way your a shithouse - I've thrown my real name/life up here - yours was easy to find
You still lying dolittle
No I'm not,
[img] 
?t=1254957670[/img]
Albion Road circa 11pm tonight. You chickened out again.
Either way your a shithouse - I've thrown my real name/life up here - yours was easy to find
Go on, what's my real name?
Or, I could pop round to Aziz's
I haven't read any of this thread (just clocked the last couple of posts) but I can inform you that Aziz won't be home tomorrow at 1pm. And later on, he'll be meeting up with me. HTH
Go on, what's my real name?
You do realise naming the picture/album Arsenal in your photobucket account doesn't lead back to you, I guess
Anyway for the millionth time my emails in my profile, if you [i]really[/i] want a fight, why not mail me and we'll arrange a mutually convinvient time.
Seeing as Ernies popped in to back you up, you can bring him, Aziz and yourself.
I'm guessing you'll bottle it, again
You do realise naming the picture/album Arsenal in your photobucket account doesn't lead back to you, I guess
Arsenal? I named it [b]Arsenail[/b].
Anyway, what's my name?, what's my name? 😆
The private sector which pays for the public sector has shrunk over the last couple of years. However the public sector hasn't shrunk at all therefore government spending and borrowing has become unsustainable. Either the public sector shrinks or taxes go up and/or borrowing goes up. I'm sure all the lefties on here would be happy to pay more tax (so would I actually if I thought it would be used effectively but that's another argument) but it would probably have to go up to electoral suicide levels for any party that took that course. Oh and Crikey you seem to have conveniently overlooked that Chancellor Darling has just announced a freeze for some public employees and if you think he'll stop there if he's re-elected you're very naive.
I have friends working in the private sector who have lost their jobs and/or had to take pay cuts over the last couple of years. I think its about time the public sector shared the pain.
uponthedowns +1
Public sector worker here (Nurse).
I agree that we will have to share the pain, unpalateable as that is, for the counrty to get out of this mess we're in.
I do feel that those who are most responsible for the mess seem to be getting away scotfree, whether that's really the case I don't know, but it's the public perception.
What galls many of my colleagues (and me too a bit) is that when the economy was doing well, profits everywhere, and friends in the private sectors were getting big rises and bonuses, the public sector had low rises to control inflation and 'prevent the economy overheating' as I heard it put.
Now you can all say 'if you don't like it then leave', but I do like my job, feel I make a difference and help people everyday. And the country would be a worse place if the only people you got in Nursing were those who weren't good enough to get jobs elsewhere.
Always seems like a kick in the teeth when I come on here and many of you think I'm a workshy, unskilled tosser who's overpaid and worthless.
Always seems like a kick in the teeth when I come on here and many of you think I'm a workshy, unskilled tosser who's overpaid and worthless.
You need to remember that it's only opinionated ignorant fools with low self esteem who feel the need to demonise large sections of the workforce to make themselves feel better.
The public sector have too many "Managers" who couldn't organise a p*$$ up in a brewery - with [b]SOME[/b] of the workforce who see sick leave as an additional holiday entitlement.
The trouble is there are proposed redundancies in some sectors of the CS which will target those who actually do the work not the managers who earn god-knows-how-much plus a performance bonus for doing chuff-all.
In the nicest possible way OP- was this thread started as a troll?
Lanesra/Drdoolittle. Cut it out. Your grown men not teenagers.
I'd just like to add. OP Is this a form of NIMBYism?
I have worked in both, currently in Public Sector. In both there have been good and bad, hard working conscientious and workshy lazybones.
One thing about the Public sector it is very old fashioned and resistant to change. It seems to reward mediocrity, making people managers who are utterly devoid of leadership quality.
Private seem to be all about profit and screwing anyone and everything to get ahead.
An argument you will never sort on a VTT forum 😉
Dangerousbeans, far from the public sector having had controlled pay rises in the good years, the public sector has consistently had larger pay increases than the private sector, with the result that median public sector salaries are now far higher than the private sector: [url= http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=285 ]national statistics[/url]
Throw in [url= http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/bettergovernment/2009/06/measuring-public-sector-productivity.html ]declining public sector productivity[/url], guaranteed pensions - TandemJeremy's £2K person contribution to the NHS scheme probably covers about 6% of the actual benefit which is equivalent to [url= http://www.citywire.co.uk/personal/-/news/money-property-and-tax/content.aspx?ID=358238 ]35 per cent of salary[/url] and you land up with a problem.
Now take away the 25% or so of all tax receipts that the banks were responsible for and you've reached "Darlings' Dilemma" which is that:
1. The country is now borrowing nearly £6,000 a second, or £478m *a day*
2. For every £1 of income tax received, the chancellor borrows another £1 and spends £2 on benefits
3. We have the greatest national debt in the country's history
Set this against a year when most private sector employees (still earning less than their public sector peers) have had redundancies, no pay rises, a massive drop in the value of their pensions, and it's quite easy to see why politicians on all side are now in agreement that something needs to be done.
ONe significant problem with the public sector is the introduction of external consultants and procurement/commissioners, in general on high salaries with no idea of what the services are trying to achievce. They create new 'sexy' ways of working.............see the guardian society yesterday for social enterprise guru using corporate terms for a simple community based solution. Rubbish and tosh introduced as effective and creative management, just some freeloaders carpet bagging imho. I see expensive companies fleecing councils and NHS for sheer gooblygook.
There are several areas to the Public sector and given the recent job evaluations across councils pay is generally lower for more people now,and given that some of these staff work with the most vunerable and deprived pay and terms and conditions are pretty low especially when things go wrong, social workers and child deaths, police and not catching criminials and so on.
Overall there are savings that could be made in services that are already stretched both budget wise and staff wise, see id cards and other govt fluff but there is a sybotic relationship between public and private as was mentioned before so look a bit wider than oh all public sector is crap, my experience of private sector in the last 20 yrs has been shocking especially in relation to bankers, city finances ( oh you know Jonny have a job!) Construction and so on. Public sector workers are in the general hard working individuals
Lanesra, does Dr Dolittle want to [i]fight[/i] you?? I had the impression you were going to enagage in some angry intercourse or something. 🙂 This could be the beginning of another beautiful STW love story. Hope you guys catch up soon!
Oh and fwiw NHS had a below inflation pay rise the other year (although they tried to dres it up as a 'staged pay award'). Does that count as a wage freeze too?
Set this against a year when most private sector employees (still earning less than their public sector peers) have had redundancies, no pay rises, a massive drop in the value of their pensions, and it's quite easy to see why politicians on all side are now in agreement that something needs to be done.
Yep, just before the general election though Labour will backtrack on this to land alot of votes.
Lanesra/Dolittle - what goes on the internet isnt real life. Its a vent/moshpit. Imagine, the Police are called and are interviewing both of you. 'So how did the arguement start Sir'? 'It was him, on the internet, in a forum'.....
Jeeesus, imagine how the officers will look at you like your idiots.
Come on. 😀
Lanesra, does Dr Dolittle want to fight you??
Directon is wrong
Lansera wants to fight any "internet warrior" who disagrees with him.
Despite the tragedy that he has suffered as a result of pointless violence and thuggery he seems keen to share it out with anyone who does not share his world view ...which is pretty much anyone.
I await my invite to some part of London from the brave man who publicly shares his internet based Gmail account. I beleive no act is braver.
the public sector is hugely overstaffed and seriously underperforming across all areas.
this is due to extensive contracting out and reliance on consultants, who make the system appear leaner than it actually is, hence why the general public/private sector workers cannot understand why there are so many civil servants on such poor wages. They dont understand it, so they dont believe it.
Soobalias - evidence? I tell you that the NHS is not overstafffed by any means. Evidence - my own eyes.
hora - MemberLanesra/Dolittle - what goes on the internet isnt real life.
Seriously? Winding up Lanesra [b]feels[/b] like fun and that's good enough for me 😆
On the one hand, George is making poorly-paid, valuable people (such as newly qualified nurses) worse off. On the other, he is quietly making the rich better off through raising the IHT threshold. That's because he is a c***.
Same old tories.
Internet brawling is fun. Plus, you can say anecdotes that cant be disproved like the time I fought 10 Pigmy Dwarf warriors singlehandedly and pulled off their heads leaving their bodies everywhere.
sorry TJ you misunderstand, im not saying that we have too many doctors and nurses, i am saying that there are too many hangers on.
i dont know the nhs, but im talking about your suppliers contracts, your IT contracts, your cleaning and maintenance contract. I have first hand knowledge of both the IT and maintenance areas.
each was negotiated in order that the number of 'civil servants' working for the nhs could be seen to be reduced. In reality what happens is the nhs is bent over and shafted royally by private sector companies.
Soobalias - the problem with your view is that this work needs tto be done somewhare - it would be better done in house - cheaper - but we still need the staff to do it. What you are talking about is a tiny % of the total costs - miniscule
it is a bit of a myth - the NHS spends less on managemant and support services including the type you mention than any comparable system
As someone who's worked in the private sector, mainly on a freelance basis, I've only had one experience of the public sector. And it left me genuinely gobsmacked.
I was working in a studio, at some cost to the taxpayer, on a freelance basis. They appear to have got me in purely on the basis that they had a 'proper' job to do. And none of them could really be arsed doing it.
I sat there for 2 weeks and watched, while working, 5 designers (I use the term loosly) and 2 administrators (again: I use the term loosly) do the grand total of **** all! And I do mean absolutely **** all!!! Oh... Apart from internet shopping, actual shopping (they'd go out in pairs for a wander for a few hours, then come back with bags of shopping).
It was staggering to witness. And the further up the food chain you got, the worse it got. Not one of them would have lasted 5 minutes in a commercial studio environment. Seriously. They'd have been sacked by lunchtime! A fact, i suspect, that every one of them was more than aware of.
I'm sure this is by no means universal, but I think of this every time I hear public sector unions bleating about how hard done to they are
8 years working for insurance / banking, 2 years civil service.
Pension for new starters isn't as great as it used to be.
You need to remember CS get paid less than PS for the same roles.
Over the last 3 years the pay deal here has been 2% every year. I was getting 5-7% per annum with the bank.
The real problem with the CS is the longtermers, who will gain massively when the finally are made redundant/retire due to excessive benefits under the old systems and currently do very little. People here are taking VER/VES and are getting payouts of 6.5 times. That is stupid.
I largely agree that on the whole most civil servants I have met in the last 2 years are pretty useless, but that is down to poor leadership and management. There is a culture of shipping £1000 a day consultants in who have little idea, instead of paying the going rate to recruit half decent people in or develop their own staff.
Do I agree with a pay freeze? No (I wouldn't would I?). They could cut millions by simply cutting contractors and working smarter. I also don't agree with everyone getting the same pay rise whether they work hard or do bugger all.
Will I be staying - nope - like someone said if you don't like it leave. I will be.
Apart from internet shopping, actual shopping (they'd go out in pairs for a wander for a few hours, then come back with bags of shopping).
Funny that. alittle birdy told me some depts regularly have long dinner breaks (1.5hrs+) and lots of other stuff. Gobsmacked.
If my pay increases are supposed to be higher than the private sector I reckon some bugger is getting my share.....whoever you are I want it back.
Bonuses and pay increases for my circle of friends in the private sectors have been significantly higher than mine in past years.
Suppose many of us speak only from personal circumstances but I find it hard to believe that shop floor NHS are getting it that good.
I do see more managerial roles within the systems I work in so suppose that could be where the money is being earned.
Within my service many jobs have been re-graded from Band 6 or 7 down to Band 5.
Ten years ago doing the same job I would have been on £10-12K more than current banding, but my job is not seen as important or specialist as I have no budgetery responsibility (this was seen as a key marker for higher banding not the Nursing skills you bring to a job).
We also have the farce of increments within a band which sees my wife, a Ward Sister, earning £5K less than more time served Nurses under her. Yes, she will eventually out earn them but it will take 5 years to match them and another, I think, 4 years to reach her band potential. This method sees the NHS rewarding time served staff and punishing forward thinking motivated staff.
Anyhow, we are not going to solve any of it here so I better go to work.
TBH, most public servants (apart from Nurses) are no more capable than the average person working in McDonalds.I hope you're pension gets raped like Brown did for everyone elses
Lmfao, so true, mostly overpaid, useless & financed by the hard work of others, time to join the real world, just for a start drop the public sector pensions gravy train 😡
keep your head down
keep your job
save the fight for another year
So if you think that all public servants have great pensions, cushy & secure well paid jobs....... why aren't you one!
the truth is most public servants are grossly underpaid & undervalued until such time they are needed. Their pensions are contributed towards by the employee and are FAR from what most think they are ..................... the real truth is far from what the 'Daily Fail' spits out with such venom & is believed by such ignorant idiots who would never consider working in the public sector because the wages are so awful!
please don't fall into the trap being laid by our political leaders so they can make political gain from others misery!
[b][i] TBH, most public servants (apart from Nurses) are no more capable than the average person working in McDonalds.
I hope you're pension gets raped like Brown did for everyone elses
Lmfao, so true, mostly overpaid, useless & financed by the hard work of others, time to join the real world, just for a start drop the public sector pensions gravy train [/i][/b]
What, like that petesgaff on the cancer thread who's a teacher.
****ing freeloader, eh?
Only works half the year and will now be off for a few months pushing up the average public sector sickness.
Never happen in the private sector, they weed out dross like this, if you can't do the work then **** off.
EDIT: My missus just pointed out that he does work in the private sector so it'll be ok - they can just sack him and get someone else in.
Thank god for that, eh?
SirJonLordofBike1
So who is going to look after the elderly and frail? Who is oing to open the libraries? Who is going to attempt to ensure children don't get battered? Who is going to clean the streets and remove the rubbish
You are a prime plonker sir!
The false anger on this site is staggering at times but well done dangerousbeans you've hit a whole new level.
That's right dangerousbeans I was slagging off pete for being a teacher and having cancer 🙄
Idiot
No, many on here were slagging off public sector workers who MAY become sick, in your ideal world would you pay them long term sick or do what many private sector employers do?
I was merely pointing out that the likelihood is that his private employer will **** him off rather than look after him, and that is the standard that many on here seem to think is the correct course.
TJ, ZaNu Labour have failed children at every level (Baby P etc) as for the rubbish on the streets, maybe you could ask the people of Leeds the same question
ZaNu Labour have failed, again. Get over it
So what is your experience of real day to day child protection issues beyond the media?
Jesus wept, I can see why you're called dangerous
Lmfao, so true, mostly overpaid, useless & financed by the hard work of others, time to join the real world, just for a start drop the public sector pensions gravy train
"join the real world" = Argument FAIL
And what would your solution be for the rubbish strewn streets of Leeds, discard those who aren't doing the job?
Lanesra - you are either a rotton poor quality troll or a badly deluded thicko
Myself I think you are thick
Utter idiot you are - you need to join the real world
Anyone who works in healthcare will tell you that the increases in funding the last 12 years have improved it greatly
Anyone who works in healthcare will tell you that the increases in funding the last 12 years have improved it greatly
Yeah, but what do they know? They live in an imaginary world barely managing to contribute to the real world.
Lanesra"your a shithouse - I've thrown my real name/life up here - yours was easy to find"
I've given you almost 24 hours. What is my name? Is it really arsenail?
😆
I work for a huge global company (IMI) ultimately, they are very rich, however, they are at the mercy of investors, so in a nutshell..
IMI buy up companies that fit their portfolio.
The company I work for are owned by IMI, investors in IMI want a quick return on their cash.
So IMI invests the investors cash across companies within its group.
To make this cash work hard for the investor (and IMI) we have to work to very close budgets and every penny spent in making our widgets has to be accounted for, we are therefore reliant on being an attractive investment to the investors during the current recession.
I doubt wether or not if the government were to freeze pay or not that I will be seeing a pay rise anyway this year. (I have just returned tonormal working week after being on short time since Feb) I am just thankful I am not related to the car industry as the workers in these factorys and their suppliers have felt the brunt in the engineering world. I think of builders and the support services that the building trade employs as well at this time.. a whole lot of people out there are having a hard time. No pay rise will not upset me.
I'm guessing quite a few here are feeding on the teat of the state, hardly surprising given the size of our public sector, so go for it, rant, call names, spout your right on student bs ideology, you are right the public sector is well known for its efficiency, it's synonomous with effective and efficient solutions delivered by people who are by no means underperformers. 😆
Clearly I'm sure there are many good people, but lets face it the public sector is institutionally in-efficient and swamped with underperformers who couldn't survive in the private sector, end off.
go for it, rant, call names, spout your right wing student bs ideaology
You're just jealous that they can spell Ideology.
....... and the private sector is enormously efficient?
Lanesra= thick scouse git
Haven't Sebastard Coe and his mates "[url= http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23711358-olympic-agency-investigated-over-100million-black-hole.do ]lost[/url]" at least 100m so far?
Now that's slack.
SirJohn,
the thing is I'm a bloody hard working Nurse who does loads of work with others from allied disciplines - OT, Physio, Social Work, Psychiatry. Psycholgy - within our team, and others such as Health Visitors, Midwives, GP's, District Nurses etc.
Most (but not all) are also hard working and conscientious, go well beyond the call of duty and collectively have saved/improved thousands of lives.
Have worked with Social Workers carrying 100plus caseloads yet expected to visit regular and miss nothing.
Have worked with a Physio seriously ill but not wanting to go for her treatment 'cos she was worried what would happen to her patients.
Nurses who come to work looking shite cos they've been up all night worrying about a case (that's sometimes me).
And all we ever get is complaints, criticism and attacks from outside our professions, people telling us we're overpaid, overpensioned, lacking in 'real world' skills right through to incompetent if we are ever human and miss something in that one case in a thousand (or whatever).
It does grate after a while.
SirJonLordofBike1
So who is going to provide the services that the old, the vulnerable and the sick rely on?
I do so hope you get sick and come under my care
lol, spelling corrected. AP perhaps just watch!
....... and the private sector is enormously efficient?
Apparently yes, aP.
Although I was under the impression that the whole global recession was as a result of the failures of the private sector.
And in in comes internet hardman Dr Doolittle. Still waiting for the email
If you really want mail me your number and I'll meet where ever you want. You can even start a new thread on the forum
So anything done by anyone employed by the government is their fault? Would that stand up in court?TJ, ZaNu Labour have failed children at every level (Baby P
Lansera given your propensity to offer anyone out in a schoolboy fashion can we just all agree that you are the cOck of STW and leave it at that?
wow, this thread has stirred
CaptJon's first post summed it up. As much as it is inefficient we are reliant on the public sector, screw with it too much and their will be consequences for us all. It's a bit like the banking sector except the handouts come in different ways i.e. less dramatic. We are all reliant on aspects of the public sector to some degree, whether it be directly or the fact it is propping up parts of the county. The private sector needs it, perhaps it is a beast that has grown too big but it's here now and we have to manage it. I think a year's pay freeze is not the end of the world and the inefficiency needs to be cleared up but those claiming they are all work shy wonders how many of you have complained when dealing with bohemoth private organisations (insurance companies, (non-privatised) utilities, supermarkets, trading websites, software manufacturers etc) and their incompetence.
the thing is I'm a bloody hard working Nurse who does loads of work with others from allied disciplines - OT, Physio, Social Work, Psychiatry. Psycholgy - within our team, and others such as Health Visitors, Midwives, GP's, District Nurses etc.Most (but not all) are also hard working and conscientious, go well beyond the call of duty and collectively have saved/improved thousands of lives.
Have worked with Social Workers carrying 100plus caseloads yet expected to visit regular and miss nothing.
Have worked with a Physio seriously ill but not wanting to go for her treatment 'cos she was worried what would happen to her patients.
Nurses who come to work looking shite cos they've been up all night worrying about a case (that's sometimes me).
And all we ever get is complaints, criticism and attacks from outside our professions, people telling us we're overpaid, overpensioned, lacking in 'real world' skills right through to incompetent if we are ever human and miss something in that one case in a thousand (or whatever).
It does grate after a while.
All that is the fault of ZaNu Labour though. Once Dave gets in you'll notice an improvement
I'll meet where ever you want.
Oh, you talk so smooth but you never deliver. Twice now I've waited for you. I feel like I'm being used. 😳
Anyway, what's my name?
Lol @ ernie.
As a private sector person providing services to both public and private sector clients there're amazing similarities in both.
Lanesra,
No fan of New Labour myself but I really doubt that things will be better for me when the Conservatives get in.
TBH I've seen lots of improvements in the NHS under New Labour, even though I don't think they've done much else of use.
My main gripe is with public attitude towards the Health/Social Care professions, an attitude I expect to worsen over the next decade.
If you really want mail me your number and I'll meet where ever you want. You can even start a new thread on the forum
LOL, what a complete and utter dick.