So, Gorgeous George, I 've spent the last 20 years working away quietly as a public servant, noticeably not involving myself in any global financial crisis shenanigans, not paying myself silly bonuses, not lending money to folk who can't repay, not suckling at the teat of the great goddess of finance, just paying my debts on time, including that negative equity that I got left with after the last conservative government got the old boom and bust thing a bit wrong, as well as paying into that mis-sold endowment mortgage scheme that is currently on track to return approximately one third of the value that the thrusting young financial adviser claimed it would, and now you'd like to freeze my pay to help 'us' out of this?
C**T.
+1
+2
+3
This could get boring...
Unfortunately your government haven't.
+3
Oh to have a job so that my pay could get frozen
Don't worry, they haven't taken away your gold plated pension yet....
im in the public sector and have a reasonable pay offer recently put on the table - by reasonable i mean i will bit their hands off for it.
waiting to see if it is still on the table 😯
>Don't worry, they haven't taken away your gold plated pension yet....
+1
That's the deal these days. pay gets frozen. I don't see why public servants should be immune to it. The rest of us aren't (and I din't have anything to do with the economic crisis either)
You've got a job, possibly a secure one. If you have a tracker mortgage, then you're probably a bit better off.
It's not very pleasant. but that's life, eh?
my wife works in the private sector and still has a substantial non contribuitory (sp) pension which will go up another 5% when she turns 30.
gold plated nah.
"Don't worry, they haven't taken away your gold plated pension yet"
+2
TBH, most public servants (apart from Nurses) are no more capable than the average person working in McDonalds.
I hope you're pension gets raped like Brown did for everyone elses
"Don't worry, they haven't taken away your gold plated pension yet"
+46
>Don't worry, they haven't taken away your gold plated pension yet....
honour the pension that was the reason many people took the (lower paid) jobs all those years ago? sounds fair to me
I work in the private sector, got a great big 0% pay rise this year. Oh, and no pension scheme.
-1
ITYM the old witch maggie
Do you have to try hard to be such a ****, or does it just come naturally?
I'm also in the public sector but recognise that we've got to do something drastic to stop the nation going down the pan like the turd we've become thanks to El Gordo's profligate spending.
Desperately need to sort out the benefit system too; too many people will complain however, despite it being 100% necessary
[i]Lanesra - Member
TBH, most public servants (apart from Nurses) are no more capable than the average person working in McDonalds.
I hope you're pension gets raped like Brown did for everyone elses [/i]
Apart from nurses....
I'm a nurse.
I've been a nurse for 20 years.
I've done all the courses, I've done all the training.
I've never brought the country to its knees, I've just worked hard for a crappy wage, and now the Tory millionaire tosspots see me as some kind of savings bank for the country.
The man is a c**t.
khegs, are you my stw stalker?
Strange little man
quit then.
What we probably need is quality rather than quantity, i.e. fewer, better public servants being paid more and giving a much better service. Trouble is Labour have just thrown resources at the public sector (people and money) without much clear management or heaven forbid any attempt to quantify whether the extra resources are justified or paying for themselves (monetarily or in terms of better service).
Nope, not especially, I just happen to have looked at 2 threads where you have been talking shit
Pandering to the moral panic created by the right wing papers.
Gold plated pension? 1/2 of not a lot = naff all. Average pensions in the public sector are a few thousand a year Interestingly google gets results of £4000 to £25 000 pa for the pensions. Someone is at the fiddle.
The vast majority of public servants are low paid, part time and don not qualify for their full pensions due to service breaks.
[url= http://libcom.org/news/taxpayers-spend-double-bosses-pensions-public-sector-workers-09092009 ]This makes interesting reading[/url] Far from an unbiased source but a view from a different viewpoint than you normally see.
Taxpayers are paying £2.50 for subsidising the pensions of the richest one per cent of the population for every pound spent on paying pensions to retired public servants such as nurses, teachers and civil servants, according to new research published by the TUC.
This shows what I have repeatedly said on here - the tax relief on pensions is a transfer of money from poor to rich
Nor is the public sector paying fat cat pensions. The mean average public sector pension is £7,000 but the majority of public sector pensioners have pensions of less than £5,000. Unlike the private sector where boardrooms typically have special pension schemes for directors, senior public sector staff are in the same pension schemes as the rest of their staff.
Oh and there are some pretty crap nurses out there too, they're not all halo wearing angels (there's also some damn good ones which we've been lucky enough to deal with in the last week). I do get a bit p*ssed when people defend a whole profession because it scores brownie points to do so. Good employees should get pay rises, poor employees should be counselled, retrained and then sacked if they don't improve. It takes rather a lot to get sacked from the public sector.
TJ - i left the civil service last year. for 8 yrs of service I will have an index linked pension of about 4k a year. pretty good i'd say if you take a look at what that would cost me to buy.
wasn't enough to keep me in an organisation full of the workshy and plain incompetent....
Khegs. It comes naturally to him I believe - he is certainly a consistently offensive right wing bigot of amazing ignorance and stupidity
Yes TJ but even for the low paid public sector worker the pension scheme is still much better and more secure than for the equivalent private sector worker. Most private sector employees also have more 'service' breaks than public sector employees due to more regular redundancies.
I would also guess the majority of private sector workers are also low paid and many don't even get the chance of a employer contributed scheme.
Jambo - you must have been very well paid then. the norm is 80ths of your last years salary for each years contributions - so you have 8 x 80ths - 1/10 - so you were on 40 k your last year? Sometimes its 60ths
Edited as the maths was wrong
good job your not maths teacher...
spotted that - is it right now?
Stumpy - public sector workers earn less on average than the private sector
i was in early enough to get 60ths. new entrants get 80ths i believe.
[i]Oh and there are some pretty crap nurses out there too, they're not all halo wearing angels (there's also some damn good ones which we've been lucky enough to deal with in the last week). I do get a bit p*ssed when people defend a whole profession because it scores brownie points to do so. Good employees should get pay rises, poor employees should be counselled, retrained and then sacked if they don't improve. It takes rather a lot to get sacked from the public sector.[/i]
+1
But then why should I be treated like some kind of national piggy bank, to have my pay frozen, when I've worked as hard as I can for the last 20 years?
If defending a whole profession is wrong, then so is a blanket freeze...
+4
Someone tell me what they think these gold plated pensions are worth after FORTY YEARS service please. We're not talking the Police and Armed Forces levels here.
[rant]
Talking of pay bill, how many of the CS's here like me are working side by side with a bewildering amount of consultants earning 10 times what they do?
And it's not just short termers or project teams, some have been feathering the nest 2 years and more on £1k a day. This is 'Management consultants' not just techy contractors. Where I am it goes up to director level on god knows what a day. One big social network public school gravy train.
I don't see any freezes in their wages because they're 'off the books' with creative accounting outside the paybill.
It's the same with the techy stuff, don't get me started on IT contracts, outsourcing for 5 times the cost of in house and replacing the in house with the same number of clueless 'relationship managers', genius.
Now we take cuts to pay for the mismanagement and bad decisions at the top.
[/rant]
On the plus side, bring on the redundancy cash.
Don't vote Tory then.
TJ, I know you're a bit of a simpleton but, something you may have failed to grasp is that the richest 1% pay far more tax than the average person earns per year.
tinribz - for someone retiring now with 40yrs service in the civil service? 2/3rd of the highest annual salary of the last three years of service.
plus a lump sum of 2 or 3 times that highest annual salary.
find a pension on the market that would give you that....
crikey
I agree, treating everyone the same never works and is always unfair to someone in this context.
TJ
2 questions, when saying public sector workers are paid less on average is that for equivalent jobs? If it is doesn't the low pay reflect the generally better employment packages public sector works get, properly paid sick leave, better maternity / paternity arrangements / more chance of mobility between jobs / better job security / gold (or possibly brass) plated pensions etc. etc.
lot of people in the private sector now on short termworking, pay cuts, pay freezes or no job that's life for the near future until this mess can be sorted out, I don't really care by who, just sort it out. If that means cutting public sector costs then so be it.
Lanesra - once more you are wrong and show your ignorance. The richest 1% pay virtually no tax as its all paid in bonuses, offshore schemes and so on.
TJ, I know you're a bit of a simpleton but, something you may have failed to grasp is that the richest 1% pay far more tax than the average person earns per year.
You say that like it is a bad thing 😉
I notice the 'other jobs are available' tag.
Would you prefer someone to look after you or your relatives with no experience or with 20 years worth?
No, I don't come as cheap as a newly qualified nurse...but then again, you do get what you pay for in healthcare as well as other jobs.
Stumpy - that is fair enough - most of the public sector accept the poorer hourly rate in exchange for the better terms and conditions - worth around 20% or so on top of salary
I suppose if it's any consolation, the public sector is about to see massive job losses regardless of who's in power. It's far too bloated, isn't delivering (not necessarily the fault of all the employees) and when the budget squeezes come the top management will do the same as the private sector. Instead of investing time and money to reduce costs through better working practices when times were good, they'll cut costs by just laying enough people to cover the budget shortfall. Sure beats the hell out of proper management.
Lanesra
khegs, are you my stw stalker?
No, I am. Why didn't you turn up at Newington Green for a hiding a month ago? You chickened out, you thought Azzbo Fred was going to be there.
BUK-BUK-BUKAWK!
Sure beats the hell out of proper management.
+1....
TJ, you're very wrong about off shore payments, try getting money "on shore" to "off shore" then back again.
You really should stop reading the morning star
I work in the private sector, we didn't get a payrise this year... although we made an increased profit out of customers who bought more of our product than they did last year despite the world economic conditions, and we decreased our overheads!
Just had a look at the deductions on my payslip - public sector pay freeze? Tough ****ing shite, welcome to the real world!
Tell you what, if you want a payrise, save ten percent off your budget and we (the taxpayer) will give you a five percent pay rise, sound fair?
Dont like it? Get a real job!
Get a real job!
Enlighten us all lovey, what exactly do you do?
...and how much do you get paid?
...and how long have you been doing said job?
...and how much training did it require?
...and how much responsibility does it involve?
Zulu - we have been saving 3% a year off budgets for years. "efficiency savings" Painful it has been as well. Reduction in skill mix ie less qualified nurses is the main result of this.
Azzbo fred, you mean that small dweeby fella called Aziz - Do me a ****ing favour 😆
Anyway the deal was at Tommy and Patsy's pub in Barnsbury and you never showed (surprise) 🙄 . I'm there every night pop in
Anyway the deal was at Tommy and Patsy's pub in Barnsbury
No it wasn't, it was 11am by the swings on Newington Green. If you can drag yourself off the barstool at a reasonable time tonight I can see you there tomorrow morning. Or are you scared?
🙄 How about now you can even bring your mates?
I'm a university lecturer and our local branch of the UCU voted in favour of accepting the pay offer of 0.5%. It makes sense given current economic conditions and the fact people are losing their jobs.
Unfortunately the govt. had to pump billions into the banks. The finance sector is huge in the UK, i don't think people realise just how important it is for the UK economy. Yes bits of it screwed up big time, but if they weren't bailed out we'd all be proper f***ed.
So, the govt spent the money, and now it needs to be paid back. Given the country sold its soul to the finance sector (both red and blue did that) it is completely unrealistic to get them pay it all back in the time period needed. This means stuff needs to be cut and salaries will be frozen.
What bothers me most about the 'public sector' debate is the huge number of generalisations made. The public sector employs around 10m people - that is a lot of sectors, a lot of organisations and a lot of jobs, so don't lump them all together.
And another thing, people in the public sector still go out and spend money. For places like the North East of England where the proportion of public sector jobs (health, DSS, education) is higher than elsewhere, pay freezes and job losses will have a big impact on the private sector. All of you thinking you couldn't care less about public job losses, think again, you job might ride on it.
[/patronisng economics lesson]
Ok, nae bother. I'm just up on Albion Road. What time will you be there? I'm going to bring my camera.
tinribz - for someone retiring now with 40yrs service in the civil service? 2/3rd of the highest annual salary of the last three years of service.
That's the premium scheme with higher contributions, most are on the classic with 1 80th of salary * per year served.
Based on UK average CS salary:
Salary - Years - Pension
20,000 - 10 - 2,500
20,000 - 20 - 5,000
20,000 - 30 - 7,500
20,000 - 40 - 10,000
2.5k after 10 years! Is that gold plated? This is closed now anyway new peeps have much worse.
Gonna look into the Premium one though 🙂
But you have to ask yourself in a country of sixty million, why i in 4 people need to work in the public sector. It's a disproportionate amount
Ha ha Albion Road, you might as well live in Essex- If you fancy popping down to Green Lanes though I know a nice little Turkish club we could meet at.
Anyway, as ever I've never hid - my mail's in the profile either man up or stfu
for 1% contributions i'd say that was pretty damn good.
you are right thought, the premium scheme is 3% contributions.
which is also pretty damn good for a higher return.
i've been looking at what I can buy now I'm no longer a civil servant and believe me, there is nothing comparable.
edit: based on your average salary of 20k, that is contributions of £200 a year. so in 10 years you put in £2000 and once you've retired get back £2500 a year for the rest of your life....i'd say that was pretty good...
But you have to ask yourself in a country of sixty million, why i in 4 people need to work in the public sector. It's a disproportionate amount
If you don't know why it is like that, how do you know it is disproportionate?
And it is more like 1 in 3 of the workforce.
Sorry, no sympathy here, I work in the private sector, nothing to do with banking and will not get a payrise this year, like i didn't last year either. I also do not have a contributary pension, nor to i have lots of holiday or sick pay.
Sorry, but I have no sympathy at all.
If you fancy popping down to Green Lanes though I know a nice little Turkish club we could meet at
I'm not into man on man nude wrestling FFS. I've just set up a fotopic account so I can show an absence of Lanesra at Newington Green on STW tonight. What are you afraid of? Come on, you're not at Patsy's sump tonight, so get on your bike and I'll see you in half an hour.
Or maybe you're scared.
Jambo - I pay far more than 1% contributions. 6% or 7% IIRC
around £2000 a year
Get a real job!
Enlighten us all lovey, what exactly do you do?
...and how much do you get paid?
...and how long have you been doing said job?
...and how much training did it require?
...and how much responsibility does it involve?
Ducked out from the awkward questions again?
Doesn't it make you wonder about the Tory's ability to make rational decisions when they announce to 1/4 (or 1/3) of the country's voters (not to mention all their dependants) voting for them will cost a pay cut?
Keep it up I say.
Are you two oafs really trying to sort out a fight?
wow, 2000 a year wow, wow
Context: to get a decent pension (say 14776.32) a private sector worker will have to have accumulated £400,000 in their money pot. (Male, 60, pension with RPI increases)
http://www.annuity-bureau.co.uk/AF_CMS/Resources/Annuity%20bureau/rates_rpi.html
I think the public sector really do need to stop talkng salary and start comparing overall lifetime package.
oh by the way my gf is a nurse 41 (forty one) days annual leave, nearly as much as an MP... or a teacher ....
Are you two oafs really trying to sort out a fight?
Don't worry, I think it's just a harmless bit of cottaging between 2 consenting adults.
**** yeah! But LANESRA CHICKEN BOY can't keep an assignation. He's too busy sitting at home alone pretending to sup at Patsy's dripping tap, when he could be fighting me by the swings at Newington Green. I'm going down in half an hour to take some photos. Of his absence...again...
gusamac - that includes public holidays of course - so it is 31 days plus 10 PH. she must have an old contract and long service to get that. Generous but not as generous as you make it sound.
28 days inc PH is the legal minimum
My £2000 pa for 40 yrs will get me a pension of around £15 000 pa - yes its a good deal. However given investing that money in a private pension would give a pretty decent pot.
gf is a nurse 41 (forty one) days annual leave
That's a lot. More than I've ever heard of in the Public Sector. Are you sure you've got that right, and you're not counting Bank Holidays etc?
So George tells it how it has to be while Crash Gordon and Darling wait until a week after the Labour conference to come up with the same concept. Why didn't they have the balls to stand up and say that last week?
Spineless ****ts.
Sorry, too slow for TJ!
I'm going down in half an hour
Oh dear. I was right then...
Where's Lanesra gone? I'll hop on the bike to see if he's getting ready by the swings...oooh the excitement is building!
Do public servants see themselves as a different class of person to the rest of us?
I work in the private sector, have done all my career. This year, no pay rise, big deal.
If you don't like it, change your career, but then you'll complain when your private sector employer doesn't give you a pay rise!
We're in this state quite simply because of the shortermism of the 80's and 90's, the lack of investment in good management in the public sector and the PFI strategy. Don't blame today's politicians..blame that ****ing witch whos grave I will be dancing on even though she wont be in it, she'll be out sucking the blood from young virgins.
Coat got, door slammed
Surely its all pretty much irrelevant. If they weren't given a freeze what would they get? 1%, 2% max I expect and as a public sector worker said on Newsnight earlier this week it is only for one year.
FWIW I agree with Stumpjons original comments that they should be paid better but there should be less of them. LAs are stuffed full of people doing pointless jobs and they should all go. And no new contracts should get a final salary pension but of course existing contracts have to be honoured. No way should newbies still be getting such pensions.
FWIW 2 I had a 10% cut this year. (and no bonus!!)
i'm not reading all those posts but november is looming can we have a whip round for some gunpowder and get rid of the lot of them left wing, right wing, red, blue, green.