[Closed] Private Health care do you have it ?

Or have I missed something here that I should be ashamed of?

Probably some misconception about queue jumping elitism

Preferential treatment [queue jumping] based upon ability to pay. Not exactly a socialist ideal.

Yeah, I thought it might be that. Think I can live with that.

if it was needed to get treatment for something serious ASAP rather than wait !?!?

If you needed treatment for some thing serious, urgently, then the NHS is by far the best system, and because it is some thing serious and urgent you will get dealt with quickly and effectively.

Private health is good for when you think some thing is not quite right, and the NHS was would be an 18 week que.

The other option as mentioned about is either to enter the NHS system, but then speed things up where you can ie by paying for the MRI etc.

The other option is to see your GP, and say you want a private referral to a consultant. You then pay for the private consultation and any tests etc. You can then be referred back in to the NHS system.

Always bear in mind that Private Hospitals are staffed and equipped to the minimum needed, so if some thing goes wrong, ie you start dying on the operating table, they will literally dial 999 and ask for an Ambulance to take you to the nearest NHS hospital 😀

apart from just not jumping the queue but joining another queue and shortening the one that everyone else is in. One of the better ways of helping the NHS.

Lots of knee surgery being done privately it seems - is that a cyclist/sportist thing, a private healthcare thing or a gap in NHS provision thing?

I had mine done on the NHS.

The NHS system is setup to save money and the consultants time so you have to go through the GP, then physio, then see a consultant, then have an op. PHI just skips straight to the consultant and maybe a scan which maximises time saving to you (2 weeks rather than 6+ months) but isn't a very efficient use of the consultants time as he'll have to see everyone and send some back for physio rather than an op.

Or have I missed something here that I should be ashamed of?

PHI give you ~20min with them whenever you ask for it.

NHS gives you ~5 minutes with them once you definately need it. So for every PHI cases they see they cant see 4 NHS cases, and on average the NHS cases were probably in greater need whereas a GP or physio (or registrar, junior Dr, etc) may be better to deal with some of the PHI cases.

i have full cover with Pruhealth. with the savings i make with their vitality rewards such as half price gym membership at virgin active and free cinema ticket per week i break even with the premium.

NHS gives you ~5 minutes with them once you definately need it. So for every PHI cases they see they cant see 4 NHS cases, and on average the NHS cases were probably in greater need whereas a GP or physio (or registrar, junior Dr, etc) may be better to deal with some of the PHI cases.

It's not queue jumping and it benefits the NHS as you don't sit on the NHS waiting list for treatment and then the NHS dont have to fund your treatment as you are at a Nuffield or similar hospital having it done.

This leave a space on the NHS waiting list for others and frees up the doctors and nurses to do other things.

consultants and Dr's are a finite resource, there are only so many very good Dr's in each specialism that become consultants. So their time/expertise is precious.

So far I haven't needed any consultations at all. But I'm still helping to pay their salaries am I not? If nobody paid privately would there still be the same number of consultants?

Working with a hospital who want to change the method of operation to speed up the time to surgery as the impact of not having it in a lot of cases costs more than leaving it and the savings you describe.

But interesting most CCG's are actually delaying surgery currently.

Hospitals and GP's in many areas are being asked to refer to Physio, rather than progressing to surgery in order to 'save' cash. This saves the CCG's cash in their current financial year. Is this short sighted.. doesnt matter to the CCG they get funded on an annual basis, and have to hit a certain surplus at financial year end regardless.

The one that my employer pays for is pants. Before any treatment you have to get a letter from your GP (which you have to pay for) and then you have to pay the first £100 of any treatment as an excess. It might come in handy one day, but I mostly rely on the NHS..........

[quote=hooli said]It's not queue jumping

It is you know 🙂

Yep it's madness what passes as a good idea when you deal with just numbers not outcomes. Annual budgets are the biggest barrier to improvement as every time you want to spend or look at something it means children die etc.

Hmm...I think it depends on how often you get ill, injured and/or need Physio.

Wife and I are covered by her works BUPA scheme. She has hardly ever had to use the BUPA cover, and the last minor surgery that she had to have done was on the NHS - and she hardly had to wait for this.

I've got a legacy of old sports injuries (and have had a couple of bike related injuries :oops:), so virtually live at the local private Physio practice! Oh, I've also had knee arthroscopy done - this and the associated physio made the BUPA cover worthwhile.

The latest couple of times that I've needed more serious stuff, like MRI scans, I've been impressed by the speedy NHS response. I injured my lower back, saw my GP on the Weds afternoon and she said I needed an MRI scan, later in the afternoon got a call from the local hospital - can I go in the following day (choice of times available!). More recently I've badly injured my shoulder and need an Arthroscopy/MRI scan, and if I'd have gone with the NHS, they could have got me in for the scan quicker than BUPA hospital.

So, mixed bag really, but IME, the NHS is pretty good, apart from lingering injuries that need physio.

NHS here although I can get physio referrals through work.

Seen my GP 2 weeks ago for dysphagia and heartburn, made me an appointment there and then to see a consultant within a week. 2 days later a nurse specialist rang to say they had enough info so I'd get a gastroscopy without seeing the consultant made the appointment there and then. 9 days I had to wait due to my shift pattern, had that done Tuesday got the results 10 mins after the procedure all for paying a few taxes.

Gawd bless the NHS.

Was definitely queue jumping when the wife did it. Same hospital, same staff, same MRI machine. Just a 1 week wait rather than 3 months. They block book chunks of time on the machine.

allthepies - Member
hooli said » It's not queue jumping
It is you know

Unless I misunderstood the :-), can you tell me why it is?

You are not jumping the queue, you are getting out the queue and going elsewhere so the queue speeds up.

Gawd bless the NHS.

They block book chunks of time on the machine.

[quote=hooli said]
You are not jumping the queue, you are getting out the queue and going elsewhere so the queue speeds up.

Go to GP, GP recommends referral to consultant. Waiting time in the months category.
Tell GP I have private medical insurance, GP takes that on board. Appointment arranged for the *same* consultant (on their private list) within a week.

If that's not queue jumping then I don't know what is.

Appointment arranged for the *same* consultant (on their private list) within a week.

If that's not queue jumping then I don't know what is.

Go to GP, GP recommends referral to consultant. Waiting time in the months category.
Tell GP I have private medical insurance, GP takes that on board. Appointment arranged for the *same* consultant (on their private list) within a week.

If that's not queue jumping then I don't know what is.

Ok, that's not my experience. I was sent to a private hospital so had nothing to do with the NHS after seeing my GP.

Consultants see patients privately in their own time, it does not effect the NHS list at all. In essence you are reducing the NHS waiting list.

MRI's are a catch 22. More people are being referred for MRI's becuase they are non invasive and give a lot of answers very quickly. Clinically they are a big positive. The cost of an MRI scan is covered by the income received from the CCG.

The issue is capacity, and. The answer is to buy more scanners, but hospitals can not afford the capital out lay to buy more.

Any yes hospitals do block out time for use by private hospitals. This where it becomes a bit more grey. The hospital will not loose financially on this, but many times it is done 'collaboratively' as the hospital consultant will also tend to have a financial stake in the local private hospital. 8)

[quote=hooli said]
Ok, that's not my experience. I was sent to a private hospital so had nothing to do with the NHS after seeing my GP.

Lots of NHS consultants also work in private hospitals. It's not a mutually exclusive thing. All the consultants I've seen privately are also employed by the NHS. They just have NHS time and private practice time. They run surgeries at private hospitals and also NHS hospitals.

It's great when it works Drac, but sometimes it lets people down leaving them with stuff that could be sorted in a few weeks but due to not enough cash or capacity get shunted on and turn into worse things. I would actively encourage people to lift themselves from the NHS and go private, it's like paying more tax as you get quicker treatment in some cases, more in others and also reduce the cost to the NHS. It's the most socialist thing you can actually do, those who can afford it and don't are really just being greedy.

Agree with you there Mike. Following my bike accident surgery was needed and the 18 week wait time was exceeded. Chased it via GP surgery who contacted hospital who said 'we're busy and no, you can't go anywhere else'.

Ended up paying for op privately, consultant worked both private and NHS. Name wasn't taken off NHS waiting list and they contacted me 7 months after to give me a date for the op. 😯

Told them it was too late, I wrote a stinking letter to hospital management. They don't give a stuff and meanwhile my taxes continue to contribute to a system that continues to utterly fail me. 😐

Allthepies - whats the point you are making though?

The Consultant will be contracted to the NHS say 40hrs per week. If he/she chooses to then do an additional 20hrs private that is up to them.

In no way does it reduce the number of people they see in their contracted 40hrs in the NHS

FunkyDunc - the Consultant I saw worked 4 days NHS and 1 day private.

those who can afford it and don't are really just being greedy.

Sorry but I have real problem with this. Just because I can afford to pay extra doesn't mean I should and doesn't make me greedy for wanting the same serivce as everyone else.

Cinnamon - Not sure why you were treated so badly, you have every right to choose a different hospital, and you have to be offered an alternative if you are to breach 18 weeks.

All I can think is that it was none essential surgery?

FunkyDunc - the Consultant I saw worked 4 days NHS and 1 day private.

Yep, so the NHS only paid him/her for 4 days work per week. What he does on the other 3 days of the week is for him/her to decide.

The hospital would have employed Consultants based on what services they have to provide/capacity needed/how much income they could generate/what they can afford.

They obviously chose to employ your consultant 4 days per week.

My ACL diagnosis, MRI, consultation, surgery and physio all happened in a couple of months. It would have taken me six months at the time for my first consultation with a NHS consultant. That delay would have led to a longer recovery time apparently.

This is very far from being the case with the nhs currently in my experience. I injured my knee in feb and had surgery in 4 weeks for cartilage tear, at this point they found acl was torn too. Had surgery within 6 months of original injury and that even accounting for having to delay the acl op till I had recovered enough from the first op.

FunkyDunc - I was told that because I'd been taken into A & E it meant that all my scans/x-rays were there and that hospital had to be used, basically I was fobbed off. They wouldn't give me an alternative as there wasn't one. Shoulder separation needing metal work, it hurt.

Can I ask about this:

The hospital would have employed Consultants based on what services they have to provide/capacity needed/how much income they could generate/what they can afford.

In the case of a backlog is there no way of getting extra capacity?

In the case of a backlog is there no way of getting extra capacity?

Yes hospitals do do additonal lists where the consultant will come in at the weekends etc, or do and evening list. Ok your Consultant who does private practice may not do these, but there are always Staff grade/Senior Reg's who will.

However there are always going to be limiting factors ie bed space, thatre time, finances, diagnostic capacity.

This is where people have to start thinking differently about the NHS. If you want no waiting list, then you need to put cash in for all of the above, and certainly with the economy as it is currently, there just isnt the capital to invest millions.

Unless I misunderstood the :-), can you tell me why it is?

You are not jumping the queue, you are getting out the queue and going elsewhere so the queue speeds up.

As others have said it's the same person at the end of the queue, you just pay more to be in the shorter queue.

In reality I don't see it as being too bad if it didn't exist taxes would have to go up to pay all those consultants for their 5th day, those taxes disporportionaly come from higher earners paying 40% rather than 20% or 0%, so it's the same people paying regardless. PHI just gives them more for their extra money. Which whilst not part of a socialist utopian dream, is possibly fairer.

FunkyDunc - thank you for explaining.

This thread reminded me to call up and sort out my work cover. Not sure I'd pay for it if it wasn't provided by work. Given that me & my wife both do quite a lot of biking it seems worth having.

just gives them more for their extra money. Which whilst not part of a socialist utopian dream, is possibly fairer.

Interesting concept of fair

 

Put Channel 4 on now for an hour then tell me the NHS does't work. I bet you can't.

No saying it doesn't work but if you are not on the emergency priority list it can let people down when there is not enough capacity hence people can end up with more issues due to waiting than if they had gone private. It's a finite resource and can't be pulled in all directions.

I get cover for me + the Mrs through work, and pay extra to add the kids.
We've used it a few times.
My daughter had a cyst on her eyelid, had been there a few weeks, so we visited the GP. She says come back in 3 months for us to review as it is regarded as 'non-essential' and sometimes they go on their own.
We mentioned the private health insurance and a brochure is produced from GPs desk drawer.
within days we are sitting in front of a consultant (at a convenient time - early evening) and 2 weeks later she has an operation, in an NHS hospital, performed by the same consultant - early doors before he starts his NHS list.

Same daughter has had dietary problems since birth (milk + wheat intolerance) we used the health insurance to access Genetic testing to diagnose Coeliac disease before these tests were available on the NHS - the alternative (offered by NHS) was to make her eat wheat for a month and do a biopsy.

I'm not really bothered by the morals of it all - I pay enough tax to cover my access to the NHS if/when we need it, but when your kids need something and you don't want to wait, jumping the waiting list is worth the cost.

However, I am a massive fan of the NHS and feel we are lucky to have it.

PHI just gives them more for their extra money. Which whilst not part of a socialist utopian dream, is possibly fairer

I work in private health care so I'm slightly biased, however this story always sticks with me.

A few years ago my mum started having headaches and general weird sensations. She went to the GP who referred her to the hospital. After the obligatory wait she had an MRI scan. At the follow up consultation which took all of 10 minutes, she was shown the scan which revealed lesions on the brain and she was told she had Multiple Sclerosis. She was sent on her way with virtually no follow up support and was absolutely devestated by the diagnosis.

I wasn't happy with the way her treatment had been handled and convinced her to get a 2nd opinion privately. She contacted the private hospital, got the consultation arranged instantly and a couple of days later went along to the private facility and was subjected to a battery of tests and examinations. Far more thorough than an MRI and 10 minute consultation.

The end result was the private treatment and tests confirmed it wasn't MS, the symptoms she'd been experiencing were aura migraines and the lesions on her brain were quite normal for a woman of her age and medical history.

I'm a big supporter of the NHS but they are extremely under resourced with massive time constraints and unfortunately this is when mis-diagnosis occurs when the doctors can't spend enough time on each patient. Going private does buy you more time unfortunately.

Also along the years the NHS have managed to un-diagnose my mother's Crohn's disease for 8 years, including telling her at one point she was "breathing too much air" and that's why she was having stomach pains. My mother in-law also collapsed one Sunday afternoon, was rushed to A&E, had a brain scan which "showed nothing". Two weeks later she collapsed again and when they re-looked at the initial scan they discovered they had failed to spot a grade IV brain tumour. 4 years later she was dead. Hard to say if that initial miss would have made any difference though.

All these people with private healthcare who are such big supporters of the nhs, make me want to strangle kittens with frustration.

It strikes me as a little like going I am not racist BUT tbh

It strikes me as a little like going I am not racist

Except it's not.

You do know countries can and do operate public and private healthcare systems in tandem and it works perfectly fine.

Private is better for speed and if you want to see Dr x and only Dr x each time. For day case or overnight stay surgery it is good.

Surgery which is anything more there is an argument to support choosing nhs.

As per posts above limiting factor in NHS is capacity. Yes consultants could work more hours but there is also the issue of paying for the extra work at a time when NHS funds are not exactly flowing!

The issue of emily more doctors is workforce modelling is difficult - leaving medical school to becoming an Orthopaedic surgeon as an example - absolute minimum of ten years. So you are always trying to guess how many doctors in x,y or z will be needed in many years to come.

As pointed out above you can choose to be seen at a private hospital through NHS treatment if it's not emergency stuff.