MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
Just watched the ‘highlights’
Some beautiful music, very moving. I’m not a royalist but not nice for anyone to have to say goodbye to their spouse.
Oh, and that Land Rover was stunning!
After all that has transpired, it was touching of Prince Harry to come over to pay his respects to Prince Williams Grandfather.
James Hewitt's sperm can time travel?
The pic of Liz was sad but yeah no different to any other loss for me.
Where did they get all those medals?
I'm no royalist but I accept that as a UK citizen we have a monarchy and I accept that in the same way as I would any other part of a country's culture. Whether you agree that they should have the status they do is for another day, they do.
But we do the associated pageantry well.
Mainly for service, either military or to the Queen and Commonwealth
eg:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_titles_and_honours_of_Charles,_Prince_of_Wales
Mainly for service, either military or to the Queen and Commonwealth
Guessing it helps if your mum is the Queen. "You've emptied the dishwasher? Have a medal". That kind of thing.
Thought it was quite an impressive display , very well organised . I thought there was going to be a flyover as they paused at one point as what sounded like a jet went over
Cost-cutting. It was going to be a F-35 but they just played the sound over a loudspeaker as they can't afford the fuel.
Can you imagine how mad it would be for the queen to try DMT? Ego tripping out. Man.
A good moving funeral.
If Carlesberg did funerals.... very moving. The fact that there were so few people there, and I mean the contributors - choral, buglers etc meant that visually it was stunning. Whatever you might say about the BBC they know how to do an outside broadcast. In fact, if Carlesberg did outside broadcasts...
I'm a republican but watched bits.
Thought the music was beautiful and felt for the queen as a very old lady who had just lost her husband of 70 odd years and having to have his funeral televised.
I believe Philip said he wanted the minimum of fuss. I do wonder what the ceremony would have been like with a maximum of fuss.
I believe Philip said he wanted the minimum of fuss. I do wonder what the ceremony would have been like with a maximum of fuss.
Indeed. Undoubtedly met covid laws about size of mourners party but by the time you added 500 or whatever performing military and a bunch of ladies in waiting hovering in the background it didn't feel hugely in the spirit of keeping things to a minimum. The overall gathering Inc press etc was mahoosive although I suspect much better behaved in a covid sense than your average emotional pissed up ott wedding shindig.
That media pack in full
And town was quiet at 11 when I went in for a haircut. In fact my son said evening was much more like it with everyone going out
Lawn looked good. Took 15 miles of walking to cut that.
I've had a word with my elderly parents today. My mum thought it was lovely, my Dad (ex Merchant Navy) enjoyed the nautical aspects.
They'd both like the buglers if available for bookings, but we've drawn the line at field guns on their back lawn; we don't think we'll get it through the side gate and even if we did they'll blow the washing off the neighbour's line and my mum wants to maintain good relations even when she's gone.
But we OVERdo the associated pageantry well.
FTFY.
I got confused with the bands playing to no one before the coffin came out. I also thought it was supposed to be low key. If 700 members of the armed services are needed for a low key version I hate to think what the full fancy version needs. I’m guessing the plane was something coming in or out of Heathrow
I'm inconsolably bereft! I can't find any crosswords in The Times.
Oh, and that Land Rover was stunning!
In a work of genius the Prince spent years designing a landrover pickup you could strap a box to, and in an inspired break with tradition had it painted green.
I wonder if he got a medal for that piece of innovation.
And thirty people my arse, so everyone who couldn't have attended a loved ones funeral over the pandemic could have just taken a bugle and said they were in the band. I don't know how they have the gall.
Guessing it helps if your mum is the Queen. “You’ve emptied the dishwasher? Have a medal”. That kind of thing.
Well when you’ve sacrificed and devoted your life to a life of selfless duty to your country, charities and my other things, and fought in a war then you might pick up a few medals along the way too. You think it’s a life of privilege? No it’s a life of servitude, a life sentence where your life is not your own. Not surprise Megan couldn’t hack it and went toddling off back to her far more privileged life in Hollywood.
Well when you’ve sacrificed and devoted your life to a life of selfless duty to your country, charities and my other things, and fought in a war then you might pick up a few medals along the way too. You think it’s a life of privilege? No it’s a life of servitude, a life sentence where your life is not your own.
Oh give over, plenty of people have far tougher jobs & much grimmer lives, they don't get to live in a Palace for free and fawned over endlessly by toadying capdoffers
The fact that there were so few people there,
I'm with the others up there who said about 30 people, there were bloody hundreds!
Still feel sorry for the Queen having to sit their on her own though. The recently widowed should have a family member with them, covid or not.
Well when you’ve sacrificed and devoted your life to a life of selfless duty to your country, charities and my other things, and fought in a war then you might pick up a few medals along the way too. You think it’s a life of privilege? No it’s a life of servitude, a life sentence where your life is not your own. Not surprise Megan couldn’t hack it and went toddling off back to her far more privileged life in Hollywood.
Exactly. We all have our own lives with difficulties and benefits. My best friend growing up was the son of the Queen's representative (the Lieutenant Governor) in our (Canadian) province. The royal house where they lived looked amazing. The drawing room(s).... the dining room(s).... the library.... etc. But the reality was that the family actually lived in an okay flat that occupied a corner of the house, and my friend felt frustrated that he couldn't have just anyone over whenever he wanted.
Yeah, I know. He wasn't exactly suffering, but he didn't have anything like the life of a normal adolescent or teenager either. I was grateful for my subjective freedom. And who can honestly say that most of the central members of the Royal Family don't actually serve the country? Maybe, if you don't believe in ceremony and all that; but the fact is, nations and peoples have and indeed need ceremony. Besides, look at the USA when Senator McCain died. We make no more fuss than they do. Different, yes; but not more.
I think that, considering what the Crown is meant to do in this dis-united kingdom, it does quite well, and I am quite moved by their service.
am quite moved by their service.
Uhg. This makes me want to puke.
In a work of genius the Prince spent years designing a landrover pickup you could strap a box to, and in an inspired break with tradition had it painted green.
I noted that the engine wasn't ever turned off as it may not have restarted when needed!
Well when you’ve sacrificed and devoted your life to a life of selfless duty to your country, charities and my other things, and fought in a war then you might pick up a few medals along the way too. You think it’s a life of privilege? No it’s a life of servitude, a life sentence where your life is not your own. Not surprise Megan couldn’t hack it and went toddling off back to her far more privileged life in Hollywood.
Loads of people dedicate their lives to others, but don't get medals. Andrew might have flown a helicopter in the Falklands, but remind me again what the rest have done? It's not "a life of servitude", it's a very cushy job. Liz and Charles haven't spent all their lives in something like slavery: they've spent a whole load of it riding horses in Balmoral and skiing in Cloisters. OK, they don't get to retire at 67 to live on a shitty pension like the rest of us, but I'd be pretty happy to sign up for the deal.
They also get the best healthcare that the UK tax payer can provide. Far better than the UK taxpayer can expect for themself.
it’s a very cushy job.
Horse shit.
Define 'cushy'. More often than not, 'cushy' is something we project onto the jobs we look at with a certain envy.
When I worked many years ago loading HGVs, I envied the forklift drivers because I figured 'at least their feet and legs didn't get sore from walking around the concrete dock floor all day in steel-shanked work boots. Then I got to be a forklift driver, and realised that sitting all day at the wheel of the forklift out in the freezing cold meant that I got frostbitten hands. After that, I got a 'white collar' job, and never had to worry about steel-shanked boots or freezing hands again, but now find I hardly sleep for worry every night.
I'm pretty sure that having to converse with and advise the world's leaders every single day about any and all sorts of issues, while maintaining absolute discretion and having nothing like the sort of personal, subjective freedom the normal person has, is not 'cushy'.
Andrew might have flown a helicopter in the Falklands, but remind me again what the rest have done?
Harry did 2 tours in Afghanistan and William flew an RAF search and rescue helicopter.
Cushy? apparently that gold coach they run around in is terribly uncomfortable. Luckily they have another gold coach that is a lot better. And all the bentleys, landrovers, yachts, private planes and trains etcetera. Then they get to fly helicopters too- the horror!
We are collectively trying to develop a society that resembles something like a meritocracy. Where children grow up believing that with the right abilities and attributes all careers and life paths are open to them. This is of course a myth and I suspect always will be but that it is a goal is surely an aim of every sane thinking member of a society.
You simply can't have that as a societal goal with a hereditary monarchy taking the highest offices in the land. Any talk of if the job is cushy or not or if the nation is an incy wincy bit better off because a bunch of fat americans go weak at the knees standing outside a royal palace is to entirely miss the bigger picture. You can't believe in meritocracy and monarchy at the same time.
We need shot of em.
Harry did 2 tours in Afghanistan and William flew an RAF search and rescue helicopter.
You mean Harry went for 2 photo ops in Afghan after been caught playing too hard in Vegas and never actually left Camp Bastien. Even then he was constantly surrounded by his guards. A mate was there at the time
As for Billy yes he was in the search and rescue for a short period of time, preventing someone else who would have made a career from it rather than just do a short stint. We hardly got value for money from the cost of training either of them. Billy only qualified as the pilot in June 2012 and quit the military September 2013
Yes, because they own those things in the same way we own our own cars, right? Does anyone think that the trappings of other heads of state belong those heads of state? Like ol' Prince Phillip popped out to the Gold Coach shop on a Saturday afternoon, and drove home a new one for he and the Queen to cruise the grounds in? And as for all that other stuff they 'own'... how much do they, actually? As opposed to the young royals just cavorting with their celebrity (and other rich) friends who do?
I'm not saying they don't own anything, or that they want for material things; but I am saying that a lot of what they might be photographed doing is just what people in the upper eschalons of society do. Hell, I even know someone who has spent a weekend with Richard Branson's daughter in the Caribbean and got photographed on a boat. It's called being connected. And you're bound to be connected when your dinner guests include the world's movers and shakers.
I’m pretty sure that having to converse with and advise the world’s leaders every single day about any and all sorts of issues, while maintaining absolute discretion and having nothing like the sort of personal, subjective freedom the normal person has, is not ‘cushy’.
The money, privilege and having lots of staff to be able to help would ease the burden somewhat. Oh and being able to stop your child being carted off by the FBI in a child abuse case might come in handy too.
Was your mate there for his first tour as well holding his hand? And being in camp bastion or not it was some times attacked.
I'm not defending the royals, I have no feelings either positive or negative towards them. Someone mentioned Andrew and what have the others done so I just mentioned what two had done.
You simply can’t have that as a societal goal with a hereditary monarchy taking the highest offices in the land. ... You can’t believe in meritocracy and monarchy at the same time.
I long for a true, liberal, meritocracy with every fibre of my being, and can't think of many places that do it worse than Britain. But your last statement is part of the problem.
Look, go for a republican system if you want, but from an immigrant's point of view, you'll still be stuck with this infernal class-based bullshit because you fail to see what the real problems are. The Crown is just a shibboleth, and you are blinded by it.
FFS... some of the most egalitarian countries in the West also happen to be constitutional monarchies. They also happen to top the World Happiness Indices. I'm not asserting that there is definitely causation, but I am suggesting that there certainly could be. Regardless, the picture should at least give pause for thought when blaming the Crown per se for the lack of meritocracy here.
The fact is, you have faith-based education here, which fractures whole communities. You still have a ****ing landed gentry and a House of Lords that includes the privileged as opposed to the able. Even in other monarchies, you don't find these things. Your ****ing British costume dramas glorify this bullshit. Indeed, as someone on here said some time ago, I think BBC dramas are actually just propaganda pieces. But even many of your actors - talented as they might be - have not exactly straightforwardly earned their place(s) at the table. I mean, I was just reading last night about one actress who also happens to the granddaughter of Lord So-and-so, and third cousin to the Viscount Whatever. It's all ****ing MENTAL!.
But no. You're right. It's the Crown. Get rid of it, and everything in Britain will suddenly turn into an egalitarian, liberal, meritocracy.
Not.
The money, privilege and having lots of staff to be able to help would ease the burden somewhat. Oh and being able to stop your child being carted off by the FBI in a child abuse case might come in handy too.
The Andrew affair is hideous, I agree. But countries have protected their own in the face of all kinds of criminal proceedings. Anne Sacoolas anyone?
But regardless, everything else you mention would apply to absolutely every world leader or 'higher up'.
I’m in the ‘it’s a cushty job’ camp.
Having said that, for all the money/privileges they have, they definitely don’t have the freedoms that the rest of us do.
For example, it’s tuesday night, do you fancy going out for fish and chips?
You can, they can’t,
Yes, they can send a member of staff out to get it, but that’s not the same as the freedom that all members of the public have.
I wouldn’t fancy it as a job.
The salary for most world leaders pales in comparison to the royal purse. Plus most of them have to work to get there too. Not being born in to the role. Monarchy is something that needs to stop. An outdated concept from a bygone era that needs resigning to history.
Having somebody go to the chippy or to do my shopping sounds ace. If I want some alone time I’ll go for a wander around my ridiculously massive estate or visit a part of my house that’s in a different postcode to the one I’m currently in.
I’m in the ‘it’s a cushty job’ camp.
Having said that, for all the money/privileges they have, they definitely don’t have the freedoms that the rest of us do.
For example, it’s tuesday night, do you fancy going out for fish and chips?
You can, they can’t,
Yes, they can send a member of staff out to get it, but that’s not the same as the freedom that all members of the public have.
I wouldn’t fancy it as a job.
Sums it up nicely for me. A nicely gilded cage. Easy to criticise and be envious, but I wouldn't want it.
The salary for most world leaders pales in comparison to the royal purse.
The salary we can do something about. I don't know what the Scandinavian royal houses get, or how it is determined, but I suspect it isn't along the same lines as ours.
Monarchy is something that needs to stop. An outdated concept from a bygone era that needs resigning to history.
This is possibly true, and it is clearly an important debate to be had. Having said that, it is not true to say that because something is old/historic, it is therefore inferior. I can think of many republics that are not as stable or modern or as equal as most Western monarchies.
What I am arguing is that the baby does not necessarily need to be let out with the bathwater. Let's get rid of the dirty bathwater first, because as much as I love my adopted country, there is so ****ing much of it.
I’m more of a republican than royalist and agree there’s more money spent on them than necessary compared to say current US president. However, I expect the cost of security for former presidents (currently 5?) adds up.
for all the money/privileges they have, they definitely don’t have the freedoms that the rest of us do.
Bet they don’t have to worry about “what tyres for...” just buy as many as they want!
"Let’s get rid of the dirty bathwater first, because as much as I love my adopted country, there is so **** much of it."
On a rather similar note with some so called "people republic" ... They actually love their party. They love themselves only and any other perspectives are wrong. The diehard supporter would justify their cause with their party political views ... just like China. "We love our country!" ... actually they are referring to their party.
you’ll still be stuck with this infernal class-based bullshit because you fail to see what the real problems are. The Crown is just a shibboleth, and you are blinded by it.
What a baffling rant.
Are you are unable to see that it is possible to believe a class based structure is wrong AND a monarchy is wrong. It is perfectly possible to dislike both. But this thread is about monarchy. To believe that monarchy should be disbanded does not mean you are blind to the other issues. Wierd.
There's no "gilded cage", that's just royalist propaganda to make you feel good. Look at randy Andy, Charles, Diana and all the rest - screwing around with whoever they felt like, if there were a "gilded cage" do you think that would really be possible? And you really think they couldn't just pop down to the local chippy if they felt like it???
wobbliscott
Full MemberWell when you’ve sacrificed and devoted your life to a life of selfless duty to your country, charities and my other things, and fought in a war then you might pick up a few medals along the way too.
OK so screw it, why not.
He earned several service stars and clasps- campaign/theatre participation medals. He had more than most since he was navy and served in several campaigns, and was a member of the service for the full war. Same with the War Medal. All thoroughly earned.
He added an oak leaf to the war medal as he was mentioned in dispatches, which wasn't earned, not like it would have been for a normal officer. Basically you got that for doing something unusually good or brave enough to draw real attention, but not enough to earn a medal. My grandad was also mentioned in dispatches though he never had the oak leaf, not sure why- he was RAF ground crew and got it for going above and beyond and getting wounded in the process, when he was supposed to be safe in a bunker. Prince Philip OTOH got his for doing his assigned job well in action, purely favouritism/exceptionalism.
And he wore the Naval Long Service medal, which he didn't earn through active service but through honorary service. The Croix de Guerre, Greek War Cross, and Malta George Cross were nominally awarded for his war service but really just because of who he was. The Canadian Forces Decoration was honorary.
And the New Zealand Queen's Service honour and New Zealand Commemoration Medal, both for public service. He also wore an assortment of coronation and jubilee medals, which are basically public servant's medals given sometimes for merit, sometimes for who you are- quite a lot are given out and generally there's no fixed rule of why but senior royals always get one.
Quite a few of the awards are shone up with bars etc and as far as I can see these were mostly honorary/unearned- the palm on the croix de guerre frinstance.
So earned/unearned? Even if you'd stripped away all the unearned and honorary ones, he'd still have had a chest to be proud of. It must be a bit weird to have that mix tbh- to have hard earned awards being a little outshone by ones you got for existing.
My grandad was also mentioned in dispatches though he never had the oak leaf, not sure why- he was RAF ground crew and got it for going above and beyond and getting wounded in the process, when he was supposed to be safe in a bunker. Prince Philip OTOH got his for doing his assigned job well in action, purely favouritism/exceptionalism.
Served on HMS Valiant in Alexandria and two months later was mentioned in dispatches for his actions during the Battle of Cape Matapan after spotting an unexpected enemy vessel with searchlights.
This was an actual battle,
UK-
1 aircraft carrier
3 battleships
7 light cruisers
17 destroyers
Italy-
1 battleship
6 heavy cruisers
2 light cruisers
17 destroyers
The Italians lost 2000+ dead.
3 heavy cruisers sunk
2 destroyers sunk
1 battleship damaged
1 destroyer damaged
UK faired a lot better and only lost 3 men, with some slight damage to 4 cruisers,
Most of the action was carried out at about 25km. Philips own action was at under 4000m.
There aren't any bunkers in a naval battle
Apparently I've been mentioned in dispatches.
Didn't know what the hell it was when I was told. Still not entirely sure.
As I said dyna-ti, he followed orders and did his job well- normal officers don't get mentioned for that. Not sure what your point is?
My point ?, my point is you are casting doubt and shadow on the mans war record.
dyna-ti
Free MemberMy point ?, my point is you are casting doubt and shadow on the mans war record.
But you seem to think you're somehow countering what I said, with your lists and "actual battle" waffle which doesn't actually address my point- it's not even relevant. So again, what was your point?
It doesn't "cast shadow" that his admiral gave him an award because of who he was not because of what he did. It didn't undermine his service, or the worth of his actions. No more than it "casts shadow" on all the other sailors and officers who served just as bravely and well on that same day and got no additional recognition, because they weren't called Mountbatten.
Or are you taking offence at the suggestion that he didn't earn that palm either? 🙂 Does pointing that out "cast doubt" on his war record too? Why do you think being given something that you didn't earn by someone else diminishes what you really achieved? And why do you think me highlighting his earned honours is "casting shadow"?
And why do you think me highlighting his earned honours is “casting shadow”?
Highlighting ????? You werent highlighting anything, you was saying straight out his award was given to him, basically because of who he was, and even threw in a bit about dear old gramps, as way or a confirmation.
Where did you get such information from ?, you weren't there. So it was your mere, and from the sounds of it, biased opinion.
Im sure many were. Good for the admirals career to to be seen to be dishing medals out to the bosses kids
a friend of ours is part of the Royal parks service; he's also a mechanical wiz and built a scale version of one of the RP Landrovers for his son (called Linden, hence it's the Lindrover)
He's just posted this nice story