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I live in the country, the garden here is open under a national garden scheme.
There are a couple of signposts to direct visitors. We have had no issues until earlier this week.
At twilight on Wednesday evening, a dark coloured estate shaped car was seen driving slowly down our drive. My folks could only make out its shape and thought it was my car. But it wasn't.
Thursday night my folks met the same car coming up the drive again at twilight. When questioned, the driver a girl in her early twenties said they were following the garden signs. There was a man of a similar age and a child in the car too. They were told the garden wasn't open in the dark. They turned and left.
At six o'clock this evening the car returned a third time.
I met them, asked them what they wanted. They repeated the garden line. I said that was nonsense as I had taken the signs down that day. I pointed out that this was the third time they had been on our property with no legitimate reason and I asked them to leave.
I said I was taking a picture of them, their car and it's registration number.
At that point the passenger, the same girl was driving, leapt out and said I had no right to photograph his property. He was very threatening, I said if he didn't leave I'd call the police. It was an Astra van, there was another guy seated in the back.
We argued for a couple of minutes. I felt sufficiently threatened that I didn't take a picture but I tried to memorise the registration number. When he got back into the car, I picked up a pebble and chalked it on the gatepost. They stopped the car, he got out and demanded I delete the number. I said I was calling the Police and they left very quickly.
Shaken, and uncertain of my rights, I talked it through with my folks. They are in their seventies. We decided that I should go to the Police station to report it.
I filed a report at the desk and was given an incident number. I wanted to see an police officer to take a statement and to learn what best to do. Friday night is clearly one of their busier nights and after waiting a couple of hours the lady at the desk said it would probably be better to return tomorrow morning. She did say that if I had dialed 999 there and then an officer would have been dispatched.
So where do I stand?
Not a nice experience. If it is their car, (& their sensitivity suggests it is) I imagine the fact that you know their number should put them off. I doubt they will be back.
CCTV and shotgun mines 8)
...I imagine the fact that you know their number should put them off. I doubt they will be back.
For a while, at least...
I'd be concerned. They could be up to anything really, but maybe time for CCTV, or a big dog?
I'm inclined to agree with imnotverygood.
I know this probably won't be much comfort, but they are probably just looking for stuff left hanging around, easy pickings.
Well within your rights to note their details and well within your rights to tell them to leave.
Chill out fella, you did it right.
Lock your gates and call 999 should you have any concerns overnight.
Definitely sound dodgy. But Burglary is like being chased by a lion, you don't need to run faster than the lion, just faster than the slowest person being chased 🙁 By challenging them as you have, as INVG says you have probably prompted them to look for easier pickings. Well done. Sounds like you handled it well.
Every right to photograph them in a public place or on your property. They have no 'reasonable expectation of privacy.' Hopefully by confronting them they will move on to easier marks* Kudos for the guts to confront strangers, many wouldn't have. Did you give the number to the police? At the very least, they should run it through the PCN.
*That is, if they are of nefarious intent, rather than just weirdos.
You're on your own land.I'd have been carrying an axe ,a chainsaw or a shotgun if I owned one,never mind a camera! You were far too civilised but sensible.
Know anyone with a Belgian Sheppard/ any other menacing hound? Offer to look after it for a couple of days.
Take to walking aforementioned path with dog, shotgun and half empty bottle of whisky. Anyone you meet will give you a wide berth...and not come back soon.
As for photographing his property you can do as you please, the fact that you were both on your property is neither here nor there although it adds a certain moral high ground.
I would have thought (although I am not certain) that despite the open garden scheme they are trespassing on your property if they do not leave when asked to do so so you would be well within your rights to call the police.
From a practical point of view, can you lock the gates at dusk for a couple of weeks?
I'd be concerned. They could be up to anything really, but maybe time for CCTV, or a big dog?
No, not a dog, unless it is following strict instructions (and therfore under control) to attack it will be considered out of control and under threat of being put down.
#Fact
I'd agree that you did the right thing.
Dog only needs to look the part, not phsyco batshit dribbling.
On second thoughts perhaps they'd seen the wood store thread and just couldn't believe it until they'd seen it with their own eyes.
Thanks for the support so far. I still feel pretty shaken.
I didn't want to escalate anything further at the time. I was on my own, I feared he could have been carrying a knife or similar.
They replied when asked the first time that they came from the local town. It's only a couple of miles away. There are two access roads to the house. One is past a lodge, the other a farm track that really only a 4x4 could navigate. That route also has to go through a farm yard.
We have security sensor operated lighting. Some CCTV sounds well worthwhile. The big dog route might be trickier with kids around.
The fact there's a girl and a child in the mix, and the fact that were caught twice and that there has been a confrontation would hopefully deter a future visit.
I'm curious why he was so anxious about his property being photographed, the car, and why he wasn't driving on any of the times we've seen it.
Car might not be his. Girl and child make for a more convincing story if they were casing the place.
You've done nothing wrong here for sure. I also tend to agree that now that they've been confronted the chances of them returning are pretty slim.
Op sounds like you have done what you can.
I don't know where you're based but there may be some agents who specialise in securing and monitoring property who can do you some temporary alarm systems or signage or patrols or smar****er etc. if you want to temporarily beef up security. We use these types of people at work if we have to secure vulnerable buildings.
Our local Neighbourhood Watch officer always advises us to ring them, no matter how trivial, if we think someone is lurking about without good reason. It may be nothing but it may be that other people have noted the same vehicle behaving suspiciously and they can build up a picture.
I'm curious why he was so anxious about his property being photographed, the car, and why he wasn't driving on any of the times we've seen it.
Unlicensed/uninsured and known by the rozzers?
Absolute right to take a photo . you have probably deterred them already but if it happens again call the police as or before you confront them give the car number to the operator.
I'm up for a stakeout Pete.
They are small time thieves. They've either visited before and seen something they fancy or they are chancing it.
The girl and the kid add plausibility to any story if they are challenged. For those that don't buy their story they'll be more vocal, expecially when there is a threat to their anonymity.
I don't think they will be back. However, if they do, I would suggest that any direct challenge would be unwise as a return means they've assessed the threat from you and will meet it. 999 without hesitation if they return or you even think they are.
If you are going to take them on, a) be 100% sure you will win. b) use only enough force as warrants winning otherwise you could be facing assault charges yourself.
Unless you've got something they really want, I don't think they'll risk any more trouble.
Rich.
When I revisit the Police station to give a statement. What happens then? Do they follow up the complaint, trace the car owner and interview them? In a way I would hope, as it would prove that my intention to call the Police wasn't an idle threat.
No, not a dog, unless it is following strict instructions (and therfore under control) to attack it will be considered out of control and under threat of being put down.
#Fact
I get round this by making a video every night before I go to bed, of me giving the dog strict instructions to attack and rip to shreds anything that moves (apart from baby robins and Child's faces)
Got it covered 😉
OP I would still mention it to local officers. It could add to their intelligence on a known offender(s) and their movemrnts and the car/owner could be linked or be on parole/bail conditions. IF they have malintent, I doubt(?) they could be first time offenders?
From what I see, you've got no offences so it's intel. for the police rather than something that would trigger a visit.
Policing has moved on from my day, but what used to happen was info. was submitted to the LIO (Local Intellegence Officer) who would then do the necessary checks and spread info out to the various stations etc.
Nowdays the info goes into a big computer and a pretty graph is produced to show the grown-ups what a good job of crime prevention is going on. This takes LOADS of manpower, rather than the one bloke we used to have who was so clued up he knew every bowel movement of each of the local scrotes. (Me, disillusioned?).
I think action will only happen if a) you're lucky enough to get an old school local officer who will take an interest or b) you dial 999 and an instant response is required.
Stuff like this isn't really a big deal to the police. It's paperwork and a use of resources for no gain for them so it's not going to rank highly on their priority list.
Rich.
I'd say your best course of action would be common sense stuff. Any valuable items locked away. Security lights where appropriate. Ensure the house is locked. Phone readily available to make a 999 call.
CCTV etc. is ok but my guess is that this is the first incident you've had in many years and it will probably be many years until you have another. Yes, it shakes you up but the reality is that it's not suddenly going to become a major problem.
Sensible precautions but by overreacting and making the place a fortress you're as much a victim of crime as if you'd actually been burgled.
Pete
Definitely call and speak to the local police.
You did the right thing - and the intimidation preventing the photo is a real thing and quite a natural reaction from a 'good guy' - diffusing it by not taking the photo was again the right thing.
Talk to the cops, pass on the reg and descriptions and that's probably as much as you can/could have done.
I've just let some of your neighbours know Mcmoonter, they're keeping an eye out as well now.
Seemingly there's been quite a few dodgy characters around your area lately.
I've just let some of your neighbours know Mcmoonter, they're keeping an eye out as well now.
Seemingly there's been quite a few dodgy characters around your area lately.
I'm just going to let Roddy and John know. I spoke to my immediate neighbours straight afterwards and will nip around the others ltomorrow.
I was in Fife this week, but I hope you won't class me as a dodgy character.... 😉
Hopefully this will be enough, most burglars are opportunists. To be challenged in the way you describe may well be enough. No faith in Police Scotland at the moment to coordinate properly, do keep at them.
EDIT @Moab you'd be first in line mate and I am trying to avoid reminding @mcmoonter that he lives in Fife and is full of "naerichters".
Lol it was Roddy I was just speaking to.
Matt I think we'll make an exception for you 😆 .
Bizarre stuff.
Hopefully your intervention has dissuaded them from revisiting. Sounds like they were scoping the place or looking for stuff to take there and then.
....I am trying to avoid reminding @mcmoonter that he lives in Fife and is full of "naerichters".
I feel perfectly at home here. 😀
+1 on the dog. Burglars are often petrified of the mk1 fido.
I've still got my Ghillie Suit, and a bit of time on my hands Fella..
Vans behaving like that iat night up to no good. I used to get hassle from ghill lies and polis in my van until they spoke to me and realised I was a kayaking biking national trust member. If it's innocent they'll complain. If not they know someone is around. Get a big searchlight.
Caltrops on the driveway?
So where do I stand?
At the top of the stairs, like Tony Martin should have 😀
Sounds like you handled it fairly well. Is it worth blocking vehicular access from the Farm track side?
Sounds like you should be ok now the neighbour's will be on the lookout, but I'm just down the road if you need 'assistance' . Time for some Rambo style booby traps around the grounds?
Similar scams going on down this way (galloway) with folk in vans driving around pretending to be lost and asking for directions when approached, they are just chancing their luck/casing an area to come back to by testing your response time so don't take any shit from them and stand your ground/let them know you are aware of them.
A couple of weeks ago a white van was caught on CCTV as it passed the front of my mates georgian house, it had to pass up his driveway which sounds innocuous till you realise that his driveway is clearly marked [i]private estate[/i] at the gated entrance off a very minor Galloway road and is 500 yards long up a red gravel driveway to the main house before turning up the hill another 500 yards to the farm buildings, two days later the same van, this time pulling a flat bed trailer passes through on the way up to the farm (4 quad bikes/ trials bikes, his rally cars, 2 mini excavators. compressors/umpteen tools etc in the farm buildings) but they didn't realise he was working on the drains that run down through the fields and across the farm roads, he had the circular route dug up along with his rather large Claas Scorpian Telehandler which held all the drainage pipe, Unfortunately as the van attempted to rapidly reverse down the lane the telehandler prongs accidently pierced the side and suspended the rear of the van in the air.
Not saying what happened to them but i can guarantee they'll not be back nor will they be trying anything similar on any other property in the area, folk like that deserve all that they get.
really? it sounds like classic s.38 to me from the front seat passenger. There might be an issue with sufficiency of evidence but that would depend how they respond to the accusation.[b]rwamartin[/b] - From what I see, you've got no offences so it's intel.
mcmoonter - Member
So where do I stand?
Take your pump action short gun, chew some tobacco and spit in front of them red neck style while chambering a round and pointing the barrel at them then say "dead men don't talk" in heavy Merican accent and look at the woman then say "I sure want to smell your honey soft skin ... " then do the tongue licking the lips to the woman. 😈
(but make sure you have a sniper stand by while point a pump action at them you should also tell them a second barrel is also aiming at them ...)
Oh ... I forgot you not in Merica ... in that case report to the Police while keeping all your valuable safe. For the moment nothing much you can do other then sit, wait and be vigilant.