[Closed] Police Kettling Cyclists outside Olympic Opening

In your second post you admit that there is an element that is out for trouble, yet seem to want to justify their actions

Sorry, where exactly have I justified or condoned the actions of those who use CM as a platform for their own political agendas? Unlike you, I don't blanket all CM riders as 'troublemakers', as you seem to. Did all 'members' set out to cause disruption? Did all 'members' assault police? Or was it in fact, as is evident in the video footage, just a very small minority who were actively involved in any incident?

You weren't at the ride, yet you claim you 'know' that " Your demo WAS designed to disrupt as much of the Olympic ceremony as possible". So, once again, do you have proof that all those who participated were intent on causing disruption? And I have made no claim to be a 'member' of what you apparently perceive as a political movement. I have merely stated that I have participated in CM rides, is all, and am a supporter of the concept.

What is clear from this, is that CM riders need to be critical of how they are perceived, and for individuals to make decisions on the nature of their involvement. That there will always be individuals such as yourself who jusge from behind your keyboard, is not something that anyone else can be held responsible for. No matter how law-abiding, peacful and non-disruptive CM might be, there will always be those who oppose it. Such is the nature of our society.

Now, if you were to direct that same apparent ire at the taxi drivers protest, would you not argue that these people set out to cause maximum disruption, and should therefore have been similarly arrested? Because that protest (as opposed to simply a gathering) caused far more disruption to other Londoners than Friday's CM did.

Go on then challenge my prejudices; It would seem far more people on here share at least some of them than side with you.

It also seems that far more people on here have absolutely no experience of CM from a participatory point of view yet feel quite free to express their views. As is often the case, a lack of actual experience and knowledge of something leads to ill-informed opinions and unfounded prejudice.

Duckman; have you ever been on a London CM ride?

[IMG] [/IMG]

CM went out looking for trouble. They found it. They cried about it. Boo hoo.

What surprises me most of all about this thread, is that Cougar hasn't posted anything.

He usually pops along with a few pertinent questions, and I'm surprised he hasn't asked the CM press guy anything.

Perhaps he's on holiday?

What surprises me most of all about this thread, is that Cougar hasn't posted anything.

He usually pops along with a few pertinent questions, and I'm surprised he hasn't asked the CM press guy anything.

Perhaps he's on holiday?

Now, if you were to direct that same apparent ire at the taxi drivers protest, would you not argue that these people set out to cause maximum disruption, and should therefore have been similarly arrested? Because that protest (as opposed to simply a gathering) caused far more disruption to other Londoners than Friday's CM did.

I didn't see the taxi drivers assaulting police officers or chanting '**** the police' or '**** the olympics'

The CM [s]protesters[/s] gathering were not arrested for causing disruption to traffic, they were arrested for behaviour likely to create a breach of the peace - the video of that police officer being attacked was absolutely disgusting, and in trying to defend what happened there, you serve only to damage both your own argument, and the reputation of the entire Critical Mass movement

I'm prepared to go out on a limb here and guess that the people on here readily criticising you, are people who probably have a lot more knowledge on the subject, about riding on city streets. And compromise is indeed the answer. Though, despite you claiming this, I see precious little of it from CM.

Do you not find it ironic that James Murdoch in sponsoring the Skyride etc, and Boris Johnson and Barclays for that matter, have done more for cycling than you?

I'm equally prepared to 'go out on a limb' and suggest you don't know me, and have no actual idea of my involvement in promoting cycling in London. I suspect it's possibly more than you have achieved. And i'd also hazard a guess that I have somewhat more experience of riding in London than you, if you are a Manchester resident. Have you ever been on a London CM ride?

Oh dear. Mike - you're on a cycling forum. This is meant to be your natural audience. Your core support!

This is a forum that appears to cater for a particularly narrow demographic of all cyclists, from what I can see. As I've now mentioned several times; cyclists are not one homogenous group, rather a disparate collection of diverse individuals. We come from all walks of life, social backgrounds, cultures and political affiliations. There is never going to be a truly universal and harmonious consensus amongst us. To believe such would be foolish.

What I have noticed, is that by challenging perceptions, I have provoked many reactions, and whilst overwhelmingly opinion may be contrary to mine, it still appears that most people commenting here have no personal experience of CM other than what they see repeated in various media, not all of which can be claimed to be at all impartial, let's face it.

So, is it not better to actually find out for yourself, rather than basing your opinions on what others tell you?

Do they give out the Acid before the ride or do you need to bring your own?

Are you incapable of accepting someone may have a differing viewpoint, without resorting to cheap insults? am I not entitled to have my own opinion, as you are? We see things differently. Do you have a problem with that?

Mike, you're just replying to the people who are the most inflammatory. Be careful; they're veterans of this sort of thing 😉

Free acid? yippee!

This is a forum that appears to cater for a particularly narrow demographic of all cyclists, from what I can see. As I've now mentioned several times; cyclists are not one homogenous group, rather a disparate collection of diverse individuals. We come from all walks of life, social backgrounds, cultures and political affiliations. There is never going to be a truly universal and harmonious consensus amongst us. To believe such would be foolish.

There seems to be such a harmonious consensus against your opinion and against CM in general though, doesn't there? 🙂

When the likes of Junky and I (a disparate, albeit small, collection of diverse individuals) agree with each other, etc....

Your experience of this forum is one thread, where you've been a sock puppet.

I'm equally prepared to 'go out on a limb' and suggest you don't know me, and have no actual idea of my involvement in promoting cycling in London. I suspect it's possibly more than you have achieved. And i'd also hazard a guess that I have somewhat more experience of riding in London than you,

And I'd wager that I've got more people with their bums on saddles and enjoying riding bikes than you, but then that's just my opinion. As someone who rides across town every day, as well as having a job that involved riding all over town a couple of years back (A job in the bike industry, where I helped make people's experience of cycling better, as it happens), then I'd also wager that your experience of cycling in London is irrelevant.

I've been on CM rides in the past, but ever since the "movement" was taken over by asshats, I've avoided them. This recent spat of asshattery has done nothing to encourage me to return.

Mike, you're just replying to the people who are the most inflammatory. Be careful; they're veterans of this sort of thing

Oh, am i being 'trolled' or whatever it's called? Ah. Maybe time to just ignore certain people then, and go and do something more productive, like fit new lights to my bike; can't be riding around without lights at night now, can we? Because that would be illegal.

So, is it not better to actually find out for yourself, rather than basing your opinions on what others tell you?

I have experienced a few London Critical Masses, not as a participant but as an observer (in a car, on a bike and as a pedestrian) and they seemed rudderless and pointless so I won't be an active participant as I have far better and more constructive things to do with my time.

Oh, am i being 'trolled' or whatever it's called? Ah. Maybe time to just ignore certain people then, and go and do something more productive, like fit new lights to my bike; can't be riding around without lights at night now, can we? Because that would be illegal.

So, once again, do you have proof that all those who participated were intent on causing disruption?

Well, given that Critical Mass is not 'organised' by anyone how would you get that proof? A quick googling shows that quite a few people were promoting this as an attempt to disrupt the Olympics. But of course that is just the view of a few individulas (who happen to come together to celebrate cycling), not the view of CM itself. Becuase it apparently has no views although it does seemingly have an objective.
As I said before. Your disingenuousness won't win you any friends.

It also seems that far more people on here have absolutely no experience of CM from a participatory point of view yet feel quite free to express their views.

I have absolutely no experience of CM, my views are formed solely from this thread. Specifically, I've seen a lot of rebuttal about what CM [i]aren't[/i], but what CM [i]are [/i]seems to be thus far elusive. Is it a secret?

Oh he's up there, waiting for a satisfactory response to his pertinent question

I get that a lot.

This is a forum that appears to cater for a particularly narrow demographic of all cyclists, from what I can see.

I'd be hard pressed to think of a demographic not represented on STW, to be honest (inside or outside of cycling). Swiss lifeguards, perhaps. But I wouldn't like to bet on that.

is it not better to actually find out for yourself

Oddly, that's exactly what I'm trying to do.

This is a forum that appears to cater for a particularly narrow demographic of all cyclists, from what I can see.

Quite the opposite, I'd say. Especially compared to a more road oriented forum.

Far more variations of mountain biking, plus a quite significant road cycling contingent too. Everything from sick to the power of rad BMXers, to downhillers to out for a ride in the hills to cyclocross to towpath riders, XC racers, roadies, long distance tourers, commuters (in and out of the city), chain gangers, ... all on here. People that drive to go cycling, people that out of principle see cars and bikes as mutually exclusive, ...

And many of us tick many more than one box there.

Mike--the vast majority of antagonists on here enjoy baiting, its their little pleasure, so when a new fish comes along they get very excited, but its a waste of time 'reasoning' , they have a set of prejudices that are reinforced all around us in daily discourse, media, websites, forums, so they feel righteous in their ignorance, and any who disagree with this path ....well they're, asshats !!!

For what its worth where i live, n wales, we had a couple of 'mass' rides years ago protesting against a proposed by-pass, among the fifty or so riders was a CTC campaign officer, a bloke who now is part of sustrans wales, and other assorted activists. Like most CMs' passed off with no problems, and was nice to feel safe on some A roads for a change, -- the by pass wasn't built but thats another story.

As you must already be aware cyclists are a weird lot, and for every friendly one there is an opposite.......

I wasn't at that particular junction, and i have already stated that there are times when the group stops and blocks junctions, however they don't usually do so for very long, just a few minutes, then move away. How long was that particular junction blocked for?

So why does it matter how long the junction was blocked for?

The fact that they chose to block a junction at all makes your statement that they are "Just out for a ride" sound like total b0ll0cks wouldn't you say ?

As it happens it was probably somewhere between 5 and 10 minutes (didn't time it as I was a pedestrian observing it, not a driver)

That's a he'll of a long time to be sat watching the traffic lights going red-green-red-green etc.

All the while the CM Members (I'm not going to believe there is no organisation- sorry) were goading the drivers that were being held up and laughing at them [b] trying to provoke a reaction so they can then Cry "assault" etc etc.

As I said before, complete bunch of Nobbers, adolescent toss bags.

(this was my first experience of CM, never heard of them before, and that's the impression that I went away with)

You lot need a new PR department, because currently, you are ****ing it up completely.

Mike - you are certainly not being 'trolled'. That would actually be a lot easier for you. This is a cycling forum, that while often being cynical, contains a lot of people who are passionate about the subject. I'm one of them. At the time when I was working in Manchester city centre, commuting by bike every single day, we all, without exception regarded CM as a bunch of misguided idiots, and opportunists, who not only achieved absolutely nothing positive, but managed to turn public opinion against us

If you're incapable of seeing this then you need to take a step back and take a long hard look at the reality of the situation, not the ridiculous and cloud-cuckoo-land 'ideals'

but what CM are seems to be thus far elusive. Is it a secret?

they are the rag-tag crew of a rudderless ship on a mission to do nothing whatsoever at all and in doing so raise awareness of their plight.

So, once again, do you have proof that all those who participated were intent on causing disruption?

Really if you cannot get us on board and you manage to unite as broad a church as me , Zulu, binners and Cpt....i salute you, i thought i was impossible never mind over a cycling issue

I know you will ignore all this but there is some useful information here on how you could at least not alienate you natural supporters never mind what you do to car drivers/other road users.
I know you feel like you are banging your head against a brick wall. trust us it is a mutual feeling 😉 but at least reflect on the fact that even cyclists disagree with you - to say we are not reflective is arrogant pish which no doubt comes easily to you if your posts are anything to go by- I dont mean to be personal but nothing posted so far seem to have made you think or reflect

You do a great disservice to cyclist with your actions though your aims and motivations are noble your methods are as stupid , not well though out and it counter productive...but hey you know your rights and everyone else can go **** themselves right

PS Rudebowy seems to hold some strong opinions about the forum for a new poster who has only ever posted on this issue

they have a set of prejudices that are reinforced all around us in daily discourse, media, websites, forums, so they feel righteous in their ignorance, and any who disagree with this path ....well they're, asshats

Mods - please check the IP addresses of the brand new anonymous members on this thread. They are the virtual equivalent of a bandana'd protester 😀

Lol!

Dylan from Bangor just signed up to say how much he supports the opinions of someone from London.

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Proper LOL at crikey - 'chinny reckon'. I've not heard that for 25 years 😀

Is it too late to tutt disapproving?

Can't claim the idea; it was used on here a week or so ago, just recycling the goodness... 🙂

Critical Mass have done nothing wrong a group of cyclist's is how threatening?

Certainly living in E11 my thought are with them hope they all get off they've done nothing wrong!

Locog have shut off rights of access for years why shouldn't people protest about that at the least opportune moment?

Why should they be physically abused for riding bikes, I've ben at parties that have been pigged and been treated better...

I've ben at parties that have been pigged and been treated better...

Really should have mass protested Box hill. I mean think of the impact and good will you could have generated sticking it to the man , LOCOG and standing up for your inalienable rights...I mean there was only a million or so there to watch the race but **** them you got rights, right

Was there any jelly?

If they want to protest against the Olympics, then * me! Good *ing luck to 'em! But WTF has this got to do with cycling? Opportunism. Pure and simple. They're idiots! Who are doing considerably more harm than good

If you're going to protest, then do it!!! But FFS grow a pair and stop hiding behind other people to do it, you shithouses!

...If you're going to protest, then do it!!! But FFS grow a pair and stop hiding behind other people to do it, you shithouses!

I politely request your permission to get this printed on a Teeshirt.

Locog have shut off rights of access for years why shouldn't people protest about that at the least opportune moment?

Well for one it's probably too late now, stable door shut and all that.

Cyclists passing along gently don't pose a threat just cause nuisance, those assaulting Police officers do clearly cause a threat.

Awesome but, in English, WTF are you trying to say.

De babylonians was all up in his grill and ting, innit blud, yougetmeyeah?

Or something.

Binners/nealglover - Get printing those t-shirts, gentlemen!

Printed on a teeshirt?

It should be carved in the stone floor of the Houses of Parliament.

Binners FTW.

....Locog have shut off rights of access for years why shouldn't people protest about that at the least opportune moment?

It's not a "Protest" though is it.

According to the CM "press officer" It's just a few people out for a ride enjoying themselves right ?

So that statement, wether correct or not. Is totally irrelevant to the discussion.

Next.

Police have been hassling CM for years because they don't agree to protest rules, why would they?

They're a group of people riding bikes not a set protest, the police can't deal with this and now seem to abuse the group freely?

Why do cyclists as a group need to tell the police where they are going, why should they tell the police where they are going, it's a celebration of cycling not a protest it's the authorities who get it routinely wrong.

They seem to find a group of cyclists riding where they want on a Friday night intimidating?

Police have been hassling CM for years because they don't agree to protest rules, why would they?

Stick it to the man you and your [b]mates just happily riding for no reason whatsoever to nowhere to say nothing about anything[/b]

Binners T-Shirt [in bold above] for the CM dude.

Ok, A Poll!
[img] [/img]

[b]Do you think Critical Mass is a Protest movement?[/b]
[url= http://www.palmnet.me.uk/minipolls/vote.php?id=2605 ]Click if you think Yes[/url] [url= http://www.palmnet.me.uk/minipolls/vote.php?id=2606 ]Click if you think No[/url]

[b]Does Critical Mass harm Cyclists' public image?[/b]
[url= http://www.palmnet.me.uk/minipolls/vote.php?id=2607 ]Click if you think Yes[/url] [url= http://www.palmnet.me.uk/minipolls/vote.php?id=2608 ]Click if you think No[/url]

Get voting guys, Democracy wins!
I'm off to get more beer... Back soon 😉

Critical mass is a celebration of cycling it's great if anything Friday has confirmed how lax I've been in celebrating cycling, not any more...

Drac,

Rules - Multiple accounts are not allowed. One member – One account.

Negative use of the forum - Any attempt to circumvent any suspension by re-registering.

Do you suspect that there are breaches of the above on this thread? 😀 Is it your business to be bothered if that's the case?

[quote=Raouligan]...Locog have shut off rights of access for years why shouldn't people protest about that at the least opportune moment?

Later

[quote=Raouligan]....They're a group of people riding bikes not a set protest, the police can't deal with this....

To be fair, you don't seem to be able to deal with what it is either.

Make your bloody mind up otherwise you just look like a tit.

they are so loosely organised they cannot remember what they are organising for 😉

Freddies you need to feel the vibes, wonder what you would make of CM's in Budapest ?

junkyard,
Thats probably true 😀

I love this forum.

That is all.

How many here actively take part in events to promote cyclist awareness from motorists?
Better then to bury your heads in the sand.bitch about it in private and do nothing.

OH look theyve installed a cycle land 😀 how handy is that? i wonder what prompted them to do such a thing?
Certainly not the ones that moan and bitch about CM and call them all sorts of names.In fact many here are acting towards this group in the manner motorists act towards cyclists in the first place.

rudebwoy? Could it be?

How many here actively take part in events to promote cyclist awareness from motorists?
Better then to bury your heads in the sand.bitch about it in private and do nothing.

And how many of the idiots assaulting police officers, deliberately blocking junctions, riding through red lights, antagonising motorists and generally causing as much trouble as possible were [b]"actively taking part in events to promote cyclist awareness"[/b] ???

None.

Furtunately I don't live in London and don't plan to either, so this has no effect whatsoever on me. It does, however, give me one more reason for not going.
Apologies for the interruption.

How many here actively take part in events to promote cyclist awareness from motorists?

I don't need to take part in events to do that, I ride in a way that promotes co-operation between cyclists and motorists all the time. Example at weekend I got to some traffic light controlled roadworks on an uphill section, I was first at the lights with about 6 cars behind me when they changed to green, I waved the cars through first rather hold me behind them for the next 500 metres. Cost me 15 seconds, got a thumbs up from the last driver through, demonstrated to some drivers that we can share the space on the roads, and hopefully they will consider the same in future.

More people are riding bikes than have been for years. The Times campaign is significant in coming from such an establishment organisation, and we have cycling hero's in the public eye. Now is a great time to promote good will and co-operation to achieve greater safety for cyclists, and a very very bad time too destroy the good will that is being built up.

CM is damaging cycling, creating enemies on the road, and making targets out of every cyclist who has to deal with the aftermath of their stupidity, they don't represent me or my cycling friends, and I will happily tell the world what idiots they are.

double post

generally telling the strongest nation for competitive cycling that they can bugger off and do it somewhere else

🙄

This thread really makes me realise that I have very little in common with most of the regulars on here except for the fact that I work in a job that allows me to sit in front of a computer all day arguing with strangers on the internet instead of doing any actual work and I own a bike.

Another thing it has made me realise is that up until now my views of CM were that it was entirely made up of whining middle class kids out to cause trouble. I now realise that this view came from what I had read in the media and from a form of groupthink from talking to my friends.

My original view may well have been correct but I think I'll get down to a ride next time to see what it's all about. My original opinion may well have been correct but at least I'll be able to come back on here and argue against CM using examples from my own personal experience.

Thanks binners. This is what made me realise just how judgmental I was being.

Take more than a casual glance at the CM gimps that you see on the average Friday evening ride, and their bikes, and one thing strikes me. They're all wearing jeans for a start!

Congrats on the enlightenment. Every days a school day eh?

I am interested to hear what ways an event like CM could be improved, as I don't think this discussion is really moving forward in a positive way, towards a reasonable solution for all.

CM has a privileged status. There are to my knowledge no other platforms in London which allow such a mass gathering of people with a political message to raise awareness. Do all you can to protect that status, because if it's taken away, that's it.

Ask yourself... what do we stand for? are we a group celebrating cycling? a group that's prepared to push legal rights beyond what a normal member of the public might do? an activism/protest group prepared to stand up and use civil disobedience?

Keep the Police on your side. They are your friends.

If the Police ask you (as a large group) not to go somewhere, then ask yourself....

A. are we a group that is prepared to stand up and say "No! we are here to exercise our rights. We are prepared to fight our position, jeopardise our legal status and put at risk the support of the Police, TFL, London Authorities, etc." ?

or B. are we a group that is there to celebrate cycling, to get positive media and public attention, to say "actually, we understand the Police may have no legal right or authority to impose a restriction, but you know what... actually we prefer positive PR, so in this case yeah we're not going to use civil disobedience because it will get us nowhere and won't help our cause" ?

Keep the cycling masses on your side, the motorists on your side, the Police, TFL, the London Boroughs, the London (and other) MPs, on your side. Disobedience pi55es off the Police, while the others are the ones you are trying to convince to implement cycling friendly solutions.

It appears option A. above was chosen on Friday, and although CM may be within it's legal rights, it was not within the position that CM apparently stands for. Now might be a time to reflect within, and not try to win over others, or challenge others opinions.

OK time for constructive criticism.

Isn't this one of the most arrogant statements on here?

Relatively, probably not.

In fact many here are acting towards this group in the manner motorists act towards cyclists in the first place.

I am interested to hear what ways an event like CM could be improved, as I don't think this discussion is really moving forward in a positive way, towards a reasonable solution for all.

Its been said earlier, but I agree so I'll repeat it.
Don't delay people trying to get home on a Friday evening: do it any other time and you won't make as many enemies.
Do it on Monday mornings, if you can get out of bed in time.

Also, don't take on the police. Confrontation is their game. You lose, they win. They are pros and are always better prepared. Whether you are right or wrong, and 178 people released without charge after arrest suggests the majority weren't acting criminally, act with a bit more sense. If the police have hired extra vehicles for transporting away bikes, then there's only one outcome.
And when they win, they use their press officer to write the story they want in every official news outlet, the public believes it, and you make more enemies.

And if you're a group celebration of cycling, don't act like an anti-Olympic protest. Or any other political protest. You will be treated as a protest group.

How about doing something positive rather than just annoying those you are trying to perusade?
organised bikes rides on Saturday for car drivers to experience the roads?

Litlle village fete/festival of cycling with some useful information stands on say injuries and how they are caused and checking people's bikes

Going to schools to promote it to kids/parents for the school run

Engage with those who make cycle routes and take them out for a ride to see where they dont work and why

Anything except block the roads and annoy those you are trying to convince.
As I said it is the MTB equivalent of using a footpath on a bank holiday to confront walkers to persuade them to respect us and support our right for greater acces...i fail to see how hindering their rights will make them respect or increase ours...can anyone at CM explain how that would work?

Again i support their goals but the methods are counter productive...if i wanted to get folk to be annoyed with cyclists what i would do is CM type stuff

And if you're a group celebration of cycling, don't act like an anti-Olympic protest. Or any other political protest. You will be treated as a protest group.

Agreed.

The hordes of commuters that are taking to the roads every day as a result of the Olympics going on are doing far more as a group celebration of cycling than Critical Mass. They are also doing far more to improve the image of cycling in cities.

but not thet ****s in jeans and fixies 😉
For the CM people I have no objection to anyone who rides bikes dressed however they like...except fat people in lycra as that is just wrong. 😀

Keep the Police on your side. They are your friends.

Are you for real, they are paid servants of the state, they do as their masters wish, they are purely instruments of control, i know there are some naive people about, but that takes some topping.

You are right its a police state here...thanks for the head up

Why not go to China and protest on behalf of Tibet and the Dalai Lama,women drivers in Saudi etc.

I hope you are young and grow up a bit , FWIW I think you just topped naive comments

We're living in a police state, are we?

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Is that the word down in the common room?! Here's a comment on the Olympic ceremony from that well known supporter of oppressive regimes and tyrants worldwide - Shami Chakrabarti - after carrying a flag herself on Friday night

[i]When the emails and texts came in from friends across the political spectrum over the weekend, one in particular noticed the poignant contrast between the Beijing and London approach. In China, human rights campaigners get locked up; in Britain, even the most irritating gets to carry the Olympic flag.[/i]

Yeah.... right on!!!! Revolution!!!! 🙄

>Keep the Police on your side. They are your friends.

Are you for real, they are paid servants of the state, they do as their masters wish, they are purely instruments of control, i know there are some naive people about, but that takes some topping.

_______________________________________________
Don't forget, Page 8 for the poll!

for me a couple of things have come out of this thread

1. Just because we ride a bike it doesn't mean we're all in a club. Perhaps we misunderstand the diversity of people who use bicycles? Its easy to think that everyone thinks like us.

2. the majority of people on here are not interested in direct protest, prefering to use the well established and less confrontational approaches. No mass trespass for us. I'm fairly sure its why cylcing and cyclists are still marginalised in the UK despite some encouraging recent signs. the has been an interesting and fairly unpleasant set of comments about the appearance of those invloved in direct action. I'm guessing those comments would also be levelled at the road protest groups, reclaim the streets etc (actually someone asked what had happened to them - they were infiltrated by the police and disbanded as a result).

My opinion of the whole shebang? CM perform a role within the procycling lobby. They are at the other end of the spectrum to most people on here. Do they damage the reputation of cycling and cyclists? I very much doubt it. Car drivers and others have brains also. If they already hate cyclists then it makes no difference. If they don't then I suspect they are able to differentitate between CM on a friday in london etc and a group of roadies out on a club ride on a sunday. The 'offended of chichester' style of critique on here is as embarrassing as it is pointless.

you have little understanding of these things, police as individuals may well be ok-- but as a group they are under instruction/orders ---theirs is an instituationalised world, goes with the job, and they behave accordingly, its nothing particularly personal, they do as they are told--- much like many on here---- just don't question them eh????

Ever wonder how things change ????//

By accepting whatever comes your way ????

Lot of people seem to live on their knees, its good to stand up and fight for your beliefs, suppose it depends on your life experiences....

* fetches tin foil hat *

rudebwoy - Member

you have little understanding of these things, police as individuals may well be ok-- but as a group they are under instruction/orders ---theirs is an instituationalised world, goes with the job, and they behave accordingly, its nothing particularly personal, they do as they are told--- much like many on here---- just don't question them eh????

Ever wonder how things change ????//

By accepting whatever comes your way ????

Lot of people seem to live on their knees, its good to stand up and fight for your beliefs, suppose it depends on your life experiences....

Right on, nevermind the SHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEPLE, let's man(or woman) the barricades brother!!!!1

Yossarian-- thats a pretty good summary, the angry of chichester will be on you !!

[b]RIGHT ON COMRADE!!!!![/b]

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Car drivers and others have brains also.

a spurious claim, and one that you'll be hard pressed to find evidence for..

The mass trespass comparisons are ridiculous.

The mass trespass was an organized event to show majority support for access to land controlled by a minority.

Cycling is a minority (if growing) activity, trying to improve provisions. This needs to be done by persuading the majority (car drivers) that its a good thing for everyone.

you have little understanding of these things, police as individuals may well be ok-- but as a group they are under instruction/orders ---theirs is an instituationalised world, goes with the job, and they behave accordingly, its nothing particularly personal, they do as they are told--- much like many on here---- just don't question them eh????

Ever wonder how things change ????//

By accepting whatever comes your way ????

Lot of people seem to live on their knees, its good to stand up and fight for your beliefs, suppose it depends on your life experiences....

this is actually pretty accurate once you take the emotional language out. and the question marks 🙂

The mass trespass comparisons are ridiculous.

it wasn't really a direct comparision though. I'm just pointing out that most people on here wouldn't be prepared to act in a way that directly challenged 'authority' or deliberately broke the law. The antiquated trail designations that we regularly discuss on here should be evidence of our reluctance to act.

The

'offended of chichester'

So, those that take issue with CM’s antics are small minded little Englanders from the well healed provinces - slightly patronising.

Would you take peoples 'critique's' more seriously if they were modish zeitgarians from upper west Shoreditch?

But you have to realise what your trying to change, its not just the authorities, its the mind set of the the majority of road users that also need changing.

Turning cycling into a protest movement is not the right method for achieving our goals.

Would you take peoples 'critique's' more seriously if they were modish zeitgarians from upper west Shoreditch?

i would take them more seriously if they demonstrated an ounce of awareness that wasn't underpinned by puerile and feeble attempts to either be funny or insulting.

But you have to realise what your trying to change, its not just the authorities, its the mind set of the the majority of road users that also need changing.

But it IS the authorities that prosecute people after they've killed cyclists, that designate trasil usage, that allocate money for cycling improvements and so on and so forth. Getting drivers onside is a relatively small part of a bigger picture. Still important I agree but not the only target by any means.

Turning cycling into a protest movement is not the right method for achieving our goals.

What are 'our' goals? Are yours the same as mine or is owning a bicycle the only thing we have in common?

The mass trespass on Kinder Scout, it is relevant-- faced with armed gamekeepers, my grandfather was on the moor that day- an organised protest by an offshoot of the young communists-- these skirmishes had been going on for ages, but on this day the sheer mass and attendant publicity -- helped to bring attention to an issue that was between the rich and poor, oh and the police were on the side of ...... the landowners.....

So, those that take issue with CM’s antics are small minded little Englanders from the well healed provinces - slightly patronising.

I think what some of us are taking offence at is the way that CM are being attacked based on what they wear and the bikes they choose to ride as much as their actions.

It's judging people based on their appearance and lifestyles rather than their actions that earns the 'Little Englander' tag.