MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
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There's a spate of violent assaults along the towpaths in my area and am contemplating carrying a can of Pepper spray velcro'd to the handlebars.
Now before you all shout at me, I know it's illegal to carry and it's classed as a firearm etc, but so is the knife that these muggers carry!
So before I place an order with those in the know, what's the real outcome of being caught with carrying the said spray?
If thats true I would avoid the towpaths in question for a while and liase with your local bobbies. Why put yourself in that particular area/ danger?
If you pulled out a pepper spray things could go badly wrong.
Some sprays can be legal in some circumstances but a racing driver did jailtime for using one in a road rage attack IIRC. Far better to have a u lock or similar handy
How about some self-defence lessons?
There's a spate of violent assaults
Why put yourself into that location when you know theres a very high chance that someone is more than prepared to use violence guys?!
'cos it will actually be a very low chance? how many assualts compared to how many passers by?
How about one of those telescopic baton type things? Just Velcro it to your down tube.
Fairly isolated and specific location though.
If you said 'there have been numerous violent assaults recently in the Leith area of Edinburgh at night' I'd advise my partner not to use/avoid this area for the moment.
OP you could always try exposing yourself to the would-be mugger 8)
OP you could always try exposing yourself to the would-be mugger
Is that what you would do hora? Show some scumbag the most beautiful penis in the world? (as well as a telescopic baton)
you'll get a bigger penalty for carrying the spray than a mugger will get for attacking you
Go a different way.
What if the Mugger is carrying a salt condiment? Would this cancel out the pepper?
old style frame mounted pump with lead strip inside it?
at least it wouldn't look like you were out on vigilante duty.
'cos it will actually be a very low chance? how many assualts compared to how many passers by?
well theres no need for pepper spray is there?
What if the Mugger is carrying a salt condiment? Would this cancel out the pepper?
Ooh, let me know if this is the case, I'll bring a few boiled eggs to the muggging party.
but you'd continue to use the area yourself even although your partner shouldn't? You must be really tough!If you said 'there have been numerous violent assaults recently in the Leith area of Edinburgh at night' I'd advise my partner not to use/avoid this area for the moment.
Telescopic baton sounds similar to an old school pump which is both useful and unlikely to get you accused of going armed and looking for a fight.
What are the muggers stealing? Are they targeting people on bikes? Might be easier not to carry an expensive phone / watch.etc on show. Safest option is usually to give them what they want.
Your not really thinking straight about this are you?
The mugger will not stand in your way and say
"Excuse me old chap, would you mind awfully if one mugs you?"
Thus giving you time to stop and remove the pepper spray from the bars.
More likely they will be hiding in a bush and jump out at you, knocking you off the bike giving you zero opportunity to get your spray.
Poly no I'm not tough but I do look like I've nothing of value on me.
More likely he will suddenly turn as he is walking past you, crack you hard in the jaw twice knocking you off the bike, stamp on your face three times then go through your pockets whilst you lay there spitting out teeth
FTFY
It seems then that hora and his beautiful penis is the best option put forward so far.
There's a spate of violent assaults along the towpaths in my area
If you're not able to defend yourself without weapons then just walk away. The bike's replaceable, you're not.
Erm, silly idea.
Avoid area if you're worried, let cops deal with it. What if mugger grabs pepper spray from you?
[url= http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jimmy_fatwing/SelfProtection/cycle.htm ]http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jimmy_fatwing/SelfProtection/cycle.htm[/url]
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😯
There's a spate of violent assaults along the towpaths in my area and am contemplating carrying a can of Pepper spray velcro'd to the handlebars.
Leamington? 😛
Ok, I have avoided commuting & recreational riding along said areas and whilst not 'ard as in 'bare knuckle fighter/kick boxer type' I am certainly not submissive and would most definitely stand my ground.
The local cops have made a couple of arrests recently with regards to these muggings but feel the copy cat crims will continue the easy pickings of mobile phones and bikes etc.
Just interested in actual procedings against those with having pepper spray on them.
Oh yes, Mrs Toast, Leafy Leam.
I read the Courier online daily.
P.S. their not jumping out on the victims but stop you to ask for a light or time etc.
What a great link! 😀
From Bruneep link
Nearly every cyclist carries a weapon on his machine which, under many circumstances, he may use with great effect: a strong, long, heavy metal pump offers as convenient a weapon as one could desire. Let the rider who is threatened by a foot-pad flourish his pump in his assailant's face, and he will be surprised how quickly and precipitously the assailant jumps back. A formidable blow could be delivered in a man's face with a heavy pump, especially when riding at speed. If the pump is carried in spring clips attached to the top bar of the machine — or in the case of a lady's machine to the handlebars — it is ready to hand in case of emergency, and may be detached in a moment
there maybe something there - a bit of lead wrapped around / under the handle end. " who me officer?"
Cheap can of srpay deodorant in a quick draw holster should do it.
"Sorry, Officer, but I carry this to deal with my terrible BO mid-ride. Nothing at all to do with spraying it at thieving scrotes, oh no...."
Heh heh, we used to cycle down the canal towpath every day when we lived in Leam, used to leave it near Princes Drive. Moved house now so we don’t ride down by the canal (which I actually miss, I liked the ducklings :(), but I noticed the number of reports of cyclists being mugged on the towpath. At first I kind of shrugged it off as the first ones I noticed were later in the evening, but then I saw the ones that were happening at 8-9am. :/
It'll be anarchy in Jephson Gardens next!
Nahh ... get a pepper spray if you are worried.
Police usually get involved after the incident and you definitely do not want to be the one that reports it after the incident. Prevention is better than cure.
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Spray it straight into the nostril ... see if the person chocks ... then give [b]it [/b]a good kicking ... after that continue to cycle as usual.
Cheap can of srpay deodorant in a quick draw holster should do it."Sorry, Officer, but I carry this to deal with my terrible BO mid-ride. Nothing at all to do with spraying it at thieving scrotes, oh no...."
Impulse is quite good for this, and if you're lucky they might present you with a bunch of flowers instead of mugging you.
pepper spray is indiscriminate though;
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wwaswas - Memberpepper spray is indiscriminate though;
Better still try it on yourself to see the effect ... I would as it's harmless.
I'm 6ft2(?) circa 210lbs (with a beautiful schlong) yet I wouldn't go near ANYWHERE that has a current rep for violent muggings.
There are some bloody nutjobs out there. Why put yourself into harms way.
I think common sense should be employed in this situation.
What hora said ... avoid the cycle path if possible. Vermin are all over the place this day.
[i]it's harmless[/i]
certainly seems that way;
[i]The US Army concluded in a 1993 Aberdeen Proving Ground study that pepper spray could cause "[m]utagenic effects, carcinogenic effects, sensitization, cardiovascular and pulmonary toxicity, neurotoxicity, as well as possible human fatalities. There is a risk in using this product on a large and varied population"[/i]
(from Wikipedia, I admit but there is a citation)
wwaswas - Memberit's harmless
certainly seems that way;
The US Army concluded in a 1993 Aberdeen Proving Ground study that pepper spray could cause "[m]utagenic effects, carcinogenic effects, sensitization, cardiovascular and pulmonary toxicity, neurotoxicity, as well as possible human fatalities. There is a risk in using this product on a large and varied population"
Nahhhh ... they are just exaggerating and the best way to proof it is by spraying on those vermin.
A cyclist with a small can of WD40 close to hand, for his squeaky chain perhaps, would not attract the same raised eyebrows from the local constabulary and bench that a cyclist with an illegal can of pepper spray would.
I would have thought that it would be just as effective in giving you the few seconds you need to get away from the miscreant.
In case of attack why not carry both deodorant and a lighter? You can then oblige said would be mugger with his light whilst spraying Lynx over the flame, should prompt them into a quick exit via the canal.
Have you ever felt the effects of pepper spray?
Chance are you will get it in your eyes too & that will limit how fast you can cycle/run away from the situation 😉
Avoid all the hero talk here, avoid the location if its not safe to ride.
As above, you'll be pretty incapacitated by it too - especially if the wind is in the wrong direction...
If you're determined to go through with this, carry a can of Nippon Wasp nest destroyer - it sprays a stream of pesticide foam about 4 metres.
It's nasty stuff and I certainly wouldn't want a face full of permethrin and tetramethrin. There's some pretty unpleasant side effects from ingesting or inhaling the stuff.
Personally though I wouldn't do it myself as I'd simply avoid the area like the plague.
a top tip i heard was to carry a "fake" wallet with expired credit cards etc in it.
To effectively use a weapon you have to remain in control of it for the whole fight. Otherwise stay away. (Or carry a Hora!)
How about one of those telescopic baton type things?
Telescopic batons are offensive weapons (unless, for some reason, they have been removed by subsequent regulation or act, which seems unlikely): http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1988/2019/schedule/made
Pepper spray is a Section 5 firearm
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/27
"any weapon of whatever description designed or adapted for the discharge of any noxious liquid, gas or other thing"
(as is a tazer thanks to case law where electricity was deemed to fit under noxious other thing)
and sentencing guidelines here
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/section_5_firearms_act/
Unfortunately this is indeed the case. A shame because it would be perfect for discouraging "playful" dogs as well! But sensible, because if everyone went around carrying one then it would be kicking off kung-fu style everywhere constantly. 😆Telescopic batons are offensive weapons
If someone pulled a knife and wanted my wallet I think I'd probably give him it. **** all in it anyway and the cards can be easily cancelled.
Bike? Same again- unless I feel theres a chance I could use it as a barrier/aggressive weapon. If there were two of them I'd give up the bike without too much of a fuss.
At the end of the day funerals cost alot more than bikes.
Some kids got attacked for their bikes at Delamere last year, they caught the ones responsible, and on saturday a young lad was threatened witha knife , near sainsburys on the loop line in liverpool and his bike taken.
No bikes have nbeen recovered, Just perhaps if the ones who buy the stolen stuff where also prosecuted that may well stop the demand.
So really unless the jolly ole crim plays along with the Marquess of Queensberry Rules and gets a bonk on the snozell (but not too hard or you'll be in court)
there's no real right to defend yourself in the U.K. is there?
Do it properly and get some bear spray 😀
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At the end of the day funerals cost alot more than bikes.
+1 Hora, better to be a breathing wimp, than a dead keyboard Ninja warrior 😉
At the end of the day funerals cost alot more than bikes.
..but you won't be paying for it
Well I'd want a big spread, bus-loads of paid professional mourners, hour long eulogies and a few nubile looking ladies at the front waling over my coffin.
So thats going to cost more than any full suspension bike.
I think carrying pepper spray is illegal. I believe it falls under a fire arms act. There are some legal alternatives available but they probably won't be as effective as actual pepper spray.
When the days are short in winter or I'm out and about at night I always carry a small but very powerful torch with a flash function. If somebody tries anything and I have the time to get the torch out a quick flash in their eyes may be enough to dazzle them before using it as a small club.
One of my colleagues was scornful of this approach until I demonstrated the strength of the torch in the pub one night. He was walking into tables unable to see straight for about 5 minutes.
Do it properly and get some bear spray
Bear in a can? Best idea EVER.
Big Dave - You don't work for Parcel Force by any chance?
It would have to be a rather big can though...
Big Dave - You don't work for Parcel Force by any chance?
No, why do you ask?
I've been a disgruntled customer a few times but I've never felt the need to get medieval on them with my torch.
"Move away lads, I've got a bar code scanner AND I'M NOT AFRAID TO USE IT!"
You've all got the wrong idea. A mugging always starts with a dumb question such as "Got the time on yer cock?" (!) or "Have you got a light mate?" which causes you to stop in order to facillitate such demands for property with menace. What is needed is a Convoy approach (Late 70's film) in which the lead truck was actually known as the "rubber duck". Fit massive bullbars to the front of your bike, loud air horn and as soon as you see someone step out in front of you asking dumb question just sound the horn and bust through that roadblock! Although in the film the rubber duck did end up crashing in the river and exploding...
You've all got the wrong idea. A mugging always starts with a dumb question such as "Got the time on yer cock?" (!) or "Have you got a light mate?" which causes you to stop in order to facillitate such demands for property with menace.
I've been asked these questions several times (particularly about the time) by "unsavoury" looking types (whilst walking). I always say "no" without stopping. Haven't been mugged yet! (touch wood!). Maybe I'm being paranoid, but I always get the impression they want to look at your watch - or more likely these days your phone - before deciding whether to do you over. Or perhaps they just want to keep your hands occupied for a split second in order to sucker-punch you. Or do oiks just constantly go around demanding to know the time for some reason unknown to decent folk?!
A mugging always starts with a dumb question such as "Got the time on yer cock?"
Why would one be wearing a watch there?
😉
Seriously?
Every Fri and Sat morning at between 6-6.30am I pop to the local shop to buy a paper. Numerous times I've bumped into the same two lads on the main road between; one Irish-sounding fella, one Manc both normally carrying beer. The first few times it was a 'morning' then after that they asked for a light and the next what time it was. One of them added that I was a 'big fella'. I think I could be paranoid and maybe my hangover made me quite short with them but thinking about it was I being sized up for a mugging???
Anyway I've not seen them for a few weeks. I'm not changing my habits for noone though.
I guess it makes me a wee bit of a hypocrite but why should I be 'in fear' in my own area?! I thought about avoiding buying a paper/not going but then I thought the day I hide is the day I stop living.
[i]One of them added that I was a 'big fella'[/i]
was one dressed as a construction worker and the other a cowboy? If so, you might have scored.
Well when he said that I just thought he was being all-nighter drunken surly and that was his fighting 'come on' line..
Here's a petition to legalise pepper spray, as it is in the rest of Europe. A friend was attacked while riding not long ago. Scary with no means to defend yourself. http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/464
So really unless the jolly ole crim plays along with the Marquess of Queensberry Rules and gets a bonk on the snozell (but not too hard or you'll be in court)
there's no real right to defend yourself in the U.K. is there?
During the riots the cops came to my shop with a rules of engagement leaflet.
It said that we didn't have to wait to be attacked to defend ourselves ,just to feel threatened. We could defend ourselves with whatever was to hand. First idiot through the door was getting a shovel in his face.
You have a perfect right to defend yourself using whatever is to hand and proportionate force.
Its ok to defend yourself using reasonable force. However carrying a weapon is illegal, if caught, and could be used against you.
We all know we are more likely to get caught so its not worth the hassle and dibble will probably stop random people in said area and see an easy arrest with said offensove weapon, regardless of muggers etc.
Bets avoid the area till dibble actually catch the culprit or they move to another area I think.
Weirdly I was mugged on a towpath! Despite being larger than average a lot younger and fitter at the time and capable of looking after myself, by the time I got back on my feet the scumbag was racing away on my Orange Sub 5. So very nearly caught him aswell but if I had would almost certainly been in more trouble than the mugger.
Get some really, really hot chillies, slice and mash up and soak in lemon juice. Strain through an old pair of tights and put in one of those Jif plastic lemons. Squirt into assailants eyes.
That would count as a weapon I would have thought. Just loop your d lock over the bars - and smack 'em with it
That would count as a weapon I would have thought. Just loop your d lock over the bars - and smack 'em with it
A guy did that to a cyclist just down the road from my house a few years back - he got a long sentence for manslaughter.
TandemJeremy - Member
You have a perfect right to defend yourself using whatever is to hand and proportionate force.
What is "to hand" should also be proportional, IIRC.
For example, in my Central London abode, an axe for chopping firewood wouldn't be acceptable as a self defence item. In the country, though? Why not, I need to chop firewood so that's fine.
A Park pedal spanner?
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In London? Well, why not? I'm a cyclist, so it's entirely reasonable/proportional that I should have one to hand.
Chap I know actually hit a person threatening him with an axe he just happened to have to hand - he is a tree surgeon. He got a small fine for putting the chap in hospital with serious injuries as it was deemed disproportionate but self defence.
Pedal spanner / monkey wrench in your back pocket should be OK
Chap I know actually hit a person threatening him with an axe he just happened to have to hand - he is a tree surgeon.
So, what you have to hand need to be proportionate, agreed?
Correct, so if threatened by mugger whilst cycling home who has a knife and you smack him once with your D-lock to disarm, probably okay (note this demands on lots of other external factors as well) if you repeatedly smack him 15 times until his skull is across the towpath..manslaughter, murder.
Agreed CFH and to hand - not carried as a weapon
On the D lock - I discussed this with a senior policeman. He said so long as it was real danger or he hit you first you and only hit him once OK but definitely getting close to the edge of what you would get away with - my D lock as a couple of kilos and would do a lot of damage. Best to go for shoulder / body not head as well
That would count as a weapon I would have thought. Just loop your d lock over the bars - and smack 'em with it
'Cept I never carry a D-lock. I carry a pair of Masterkey Street-cuffs, but only if I'm planning on leaving the bike unattended, and it'll be in my courier bag; “excuse me a minute, mate, while I get my bike lock out to smack you in the face”
Yeah, I can see that working... 🙄
Heavy chain and padlock? We all need to secure our bikes! Might not be as easy to keep "to hand" though as a D lock.
Get some really, really hot chillies, slice and mash up and soak in lemon juice. Strain through an old pair of tights and put in one of those Jif plastic lemons. Squirt into assailants eyes.
Or a water bottle. (though could consume a lot of chillies??)
That would count as a weapon I would have thought.
I'm sure it will, but what thief is going to report it? 'Wey, a sed "giz ya bike!" and a wez just about ta grab it, like, and 'e squirted is in me eyes with 'is drink. Stung like **** like!'
Nearly every cyclist carries a weapon on his machine which, under many circumstances, he may use with great effect: a strong, long, heavy metal pump offers as convenient a weapon as one could desire. Let the rider who is threatened by a foot-pad flourish his pump in his assailant's face, and he will be surprised how quickly and precipitously the assailant jumps back. A formidable blow could be delivered in a man's face with a heavy pump, especially when riding at speed. If the pump is carried in spring clips attached to the top bar of the machine — or in the case of a lady's machine to the handlebars — it is ready to hand in case of emergency, and may be detached in a moment
Damn my lightwieght cycling accessories.
In all seriousness, the best defence you have is your bike. Given the chance, just pedal like buggery.
Someone needs to invent knuckle duster snap off lockons