Double post
Intensity is the key, you burn fats and carbs for energy in different percentages depending on the intensity (low intensity and generally more of your energy requirements are met from fat burning). The intensity at which the fat burning percentage starts to noticeably decline varies though and you'd need a fitness test to find yours (you can also train to increase the intensity at which you can sustain a decent percentage of fat burning). You'll always burn some carbs though (my peak fat burning is around 70%).
So if your 4 hour ride is comfortably in z2 you can probably get around it without taking on food (assuming your glycogen stores are full beforehand), maybe have a banana half way just in case (you really don't want to bonk). But if you're regularly going upper z2 and into z3 on the ride you'll deplete your glycogen stores more quickly and need to take on carbs to keep up with your energy requirement.
Edit: although also bear in mind some people burn a high percentage of carbs at low intensities so if you're one of them you'll def need carbs during the ride even if staying in z2
a) It's only riding a bike.
b) One is moved to wonder how previous generations ever managed any kind of simple physical exercise without the amazing amount of overthinking that seems to occur these days.
It's a wonder anyone can have a thread without the conversation police logging on to tell you you shouldn't be trying to improve anything.
This whole 'we never used to think about X so it must be garbage' really pisses me off. So what? Who gives a shit what people used to do? Are you like uber conservative or something?
It was an observation molgrips, a simple observation.
I apologise if this upsets you, perhaps a glass of warm milk and a little Tiger Balm rubbed into your temples might help.
It may be helpful for those that want to improve their riding and fitness.
Why have you bothered reading the thread if it doesn't interest you? 🙄
It does interest me, hence my commenting on it.
It strikes me that the cycling that most of us do is not that far, not that fast and not that important to warrant any special approach in nutritional terms.
It seems dissent is seen as unwelcome...
Crikey-
Whilst I understand the balance your suggesting.
I can assure you if Im at the back of my group this weekend and generally getting mullered on every hill, little else will be more important.
Thats what makes it a nice escape from reality.
From my experience I have had some really good rides where energy seems good but then there has been times where my energy levels are up/down and its really a bit of a struggle and less enjoyable when your working too hard just to keep up to others.
If there is something i can change in my diet that will help thats all i want to know...
It strikes me that the cycling that most of us do is not that far, not that fast and not that important to warrant any special approach in nutritional terms.
I don't see why you have to go a certain distance to warrant preparation. Most MTBers on here, when they go out, will push themselves quite hard, even if that only ends up being a short or easy ride by riding god standards.
As mentioned above, if you can feel better and have more energy when riding you'll have more fun. It's not about trying to be like a pro.
Crikey, assume you run a bike from the 1990s then? 😉
Crikey, bear in mind there are many types of audience for these threads. Those that are trying to improve performance, whether that be speed or endurance, and those that just want to enjoy riding.
The thing is that for the former, we all have different metabolism's etc and some thing work for one and not others. I followed the Race Weight diet for 3 months with now success other than weight gain, lethargy and reducing performance. I followed Molgrips advices and in three weeks have lost 3lbs and my performance (in May) matches last years (in September), so I am confident of further gains over the year. However, I have probably struck lucky and found something that works for me.
Vis a vis I WAS a casual MTB rider for many years and shoved pretty much anything into my mouth without thought. I never had any issue with energy on social rides and never gave it a thought. I'd be confident though I couldnt have jumped onto a road bike and matched my current performance (I appreciate the aerobic change that will proport to that).
Basically, there's manyb ways to skin a cat, we just choose the right one for each of us.
I agree that cycling can be and is personally important, but again; the kind of riding we do isn't hard enough or long enough to warrant a special diet.
People with very physical jobs, manual workers perhaps, expend far more energy and work far harder than we ever do, but they don't have a special 'work' diet.
People who cycled in the past, like my granny and grandad, wouldn't dream of eating special things before after and during riding a bike, because it was just riding a bike, just a normal part of life.
We all know what will make us better; more training, more time, more effort, more dedication. Nutrition can play a part in refining how we are, but I simply don't see that we need to be fuelling like athletes to potter about for 2-3-4 hours.
It also reinforces the idea that exercise is 'special', and ...getting a bit philosophical... that's a bad thing. Exercise should be normal, not something done by 'sporty' types, not exclusive.
Anyway, I've annoyed molgrips which I didn't intend to do, and I do apologise for that.
molgrips - Member..... riding [b]god[/b] standards.
I think you overestimate the audience molgrips 😉
I simply don't see that we need to be fuelling like athletes to potter about for 2-3-4 hours.
Who's pottering about?
I like to ride very hard for that amount of time and I like coming back knackered. Of course I'm not as fast as the pros but it's relative. I'm still 100% of my capacity, which puts my body under stress.
If there's a simple thing I can do to allow me to ride much faster, I'll have more fun, feel better and recover quicker. No-one's advocating anything weird here - just sticking a few gels in the backpack is hardly a pro style diet.
And I've observed that the timing of meals can have an effect, particularly if you are trying to lose weight too. If this is something that we have learned, why ignore it?
Exercise should be normal, [b]not[/b] something done by 'sporty' types
It can be either...
I'd love to know where I'm going wrong. If I have Porridge within an hour of starting the ride I have bonk-like effects 'shakes/weak'- weird. If I have toast/full breakie etc I'm fine but I feel sluggish during the ride.
If however I ride after work having eaten normally during the day I feel tip top. Don't get it.
[i]I simply don't see that we need to be fuelling like athletes to potter about for 2-3-4 hours.[/i]
Who's pottering about?I like to ride very hard for that amount of time and I like coming back knackered. Of course I'm not as fast as the pros but it's relative. I'm still 100% of my capacity, which puts my body under stress.
I'm with molgrips here, I very rarely "potter about" on my weekend rides, I like to push myself and I like to get home feeling tired. Most of my rides are with fairly competitive friends, and none of us want to be the last up or down a hill. Given that, if simple dietary changes can help I'll certainly make them - not to the single-minded extent of a pro (I'm not giving up beer, for example!), but if one breakfast or another will help...
I'd love to know where I'm going wrong.
No, you wouldn't. You are not a pro, therefore you must not pay attention to any of this. Your grandad would've taken his bonk like a man not tried to avoid it.
I'd love to know where I'm going wrong. If I have Porridge within an hour of starting the ride I have bonk-like effects 'shakes/weak'- weird. If I have toast/full breakie etc I'm fine but I feel sluggish during the ride.If however I ride after work having eaten normally during the day I feel tip top. Don't get it.
Perhaps try eating earlier?
😆
I think it speaks volumes that the 'eat your way fit' threads appear to be far more popular than the 'ride your way fit' threads.
I don't think so - most of us already ride, and are time pushed. A change in eating doesn't come with much of a time cost so it's another thing to look at, isn't it?
And it's also a much more complicated and controversial area, resulting in more confusion, hence the threads.
'Riding hard' and 'coming back knackered' is just exercise, it's the way most people felt in the days of hard physical labour.
Diet is not the limiting factor in your cycling. Time and training is.
Meh, I can see I'm not making any impression (other than on molgrips) so I'll go.
Diet is not the limiting factor in your cycling.
It can very easily be the limiting factor on any particular ride though. With the greatest respect crikey a few forum posts aren't going to overturn 20 years of personal biking experience.
Crikey I think you last statement can be incorrect, with the emphasis on "can be".
i.e. - If my sunday social is achievable fulled by Gingsters and thats what I enjoy, great. If I'm riding milgrips style, and trying to achieve beast / averages / speed using exertion then incorrect feulling and it won't work.
Its real easy - put 1/2 tank of fuel in your (average) car and try to drive 400 miles - it'll stop. Try to go 10 miles, it'll be fine. Then more marginal, put lesser quality fuel in it and it'll be sluggish or get reduced MPG, better quality more MPG.
It can very easily be the limiting factor on any particular ride though. With the greatest respect crikey a few forum posts aren't going to overturn 20 years of personal biking experience.
I'm meant to have flounced, do you mind?
If diet is the limiting factor on a particular ride, you're not well trained in my opinion. Your riding ability is related to training, not what or when you had breakfast.
A young lad I used to ride with would say 'Just another day at the office' as a way of describing particularly tough races; he was used to it, he'd done it before and so on. That's the target to aim for, the level of ability to be at, not worrying about porridge.
If diet is the limiting factor on a particular ride, you're not well trained in my opinion.
Ok, but given that most of us are not well trained, we could still improve our riding by simply eating something normal but slightly different.
It's not really complicated is it. I'm just talking about eggs for breakfast intead of cereal, hardly something your grandad would have baulked at.
I really don't see why you have a problem with it.
I don't have a 'problem' with it, I just don't see that it's worth all the attention it gets, and I don't think it has all the effects that are being attributed to it.
most of us are not well trained, we could still improve our riding
...by, fairly obviously, getting better trained.
I fully appreciate the difficulty posed by life, by children, by work, but the easy answer is the hard one; do more training rather than attempting to get 'marginal gains'.
Maybe I'm getting proper old in my old age. 🙁
are you eating [i]just[/i] porridge, or porridge with additional sweet stuff eg brown sugar/syrup/honey etc?
if the latter, the resultant insulin spike may cause energy levels to feel depleted within the time you start the ride. or so i'm told.
I just don't see that it's worth all the attention it gets
We're a load of people bored at work thinking about cycling. So we waffle on STW. It's not a big effort!
I fully appreciate the difficulty posed by life, by children, by work, but the easy answer is the hard one
Most of us already ride as much as we can get away with. If we can make our riding more fun by doing something simple, then why not?
I think you are mis-understanding the point of the thread. It's not 'how can I become a fantastic athlete simply by taking a magic pill?'.
It's more like 'given that I'm just a weekend warrior, what simple things might give me that bit more energy on my rides?' I stil think it's a perfectly valid question.
sparkling water
Is acidic and not good for your teeth.
Who told you that? Yes it is acidic but only very slightly. It isn't even close to be as bad as fuzzy drinks, fruit juice and sugary things.There is some real dubious info in this thread. Peer reviewed paper or it isn't science.
My apologies, I omitted a :-), it came from another thread on here recently and just highlights your final point. Although you should have said all threads on here concerning diet and nutrition. 🙂
@hora,are you eating just porridge, or porridge with additional sweet stuff eg brown sugar/syrup/honey etc?
if the latter, the resultant insulin spike may cause energy levels to feel depleted within the time you start the ride. or so i'm told.
Yep - Honey and raisins, the whole sheebang. How do I avoid the insulin-spike? If I have porridge/honey at work I also get the same feeling 2hours later! If I go 'naked' - just porridge would it last me then? I also notice I have a porridge-poo early in the ride too....
How do I avoid the insulin-spike?
Insulin spike is related to glycaemic load - that is, how much carbs get dumped into your blood and how quickly. Theoretically adding sugary things would raise the GI and could make you hungrier sooner, but perhaps not as the low GI parts would still be in your guts being processed. The insulin would still have its effects though.
If I eat low GI for breakfast, I can last all day without being hungry. If I eat cereal, despite having consumed more calories and carbs, I'll be starving at lunch.
Honey and raisins are low GI afaik anyway, because they are fructose. Even though people kep saying porridge is low GI I can't see it myself - you boil it up and dissolve all the starch in water, how is that low GI? Whenever I eat it I'm really hungru again 90 mins later, which is usually something I get with high GI foods. Maybe it's all down to how we make it?
I used to find the same thing with porridge, I'd be starving by 11 which I never got with eating muesli. Then I looked at just how much of that I ate for breakfast and it was at least 3 servings worth so I cut that in half and didn't feel any ill effects. A couple of months later and I switched back to porridge and no more issues with being starving by 11. I make it with soya milk and sometimes add a few nuts and seeds but even without I last till lunchtime with no problem and I have a 35-50 minute off road commute in the morning depending on which route I take.
people keep saying porridge is low GI I can't see it myself
porridge is low GI if made using a wholeoats, they contain a water soluble polysaccharide fibre known as beta glucan.
Beta-glucan increases the viscosity of food in the small intestine and delays absorption, thereby reducing peak postprandial blood glucose and insulin levels.
Wholegrains are also a good source of B complex vitamins, co factors for the enymes involved in carbohydrate metabolism.
🙂
*checks porridge*
porridge is low GI if made using a wholeoats, they contain a water soluble polysaccharide fibre known as beta glucan.
Beta-glucan increases the viscosity of food in the small intestine and delays absorption, thereby reducing peak postprandial blood glucose and insulin levels.
Wholegrains are also a good source of B complex vitamins, co factors for the enymes involved in carbohydrate metabolism.
Any wholeoats- any brands/etc to recommend?
I have quaker oats. On the box it says 100% wholegrain, and one 40g serving = 47% of the beta glucan RDA.
Is this good?
Edit I eat mine with semi skimmed milk only. No sugar, uncooked, no honey etc....
hora, i'm guessing the honey&raisins are your problem.
try organic rolled or even non-organic jumbo oat.
honey has glucose and fructose and not really that different to table sugar i believe.
porridge is low GI if made using a wholeoats
How much water do you use?
Honey btw is much lower GI than sugar, it's medium compared to most foods, and you don't need as much to make things sweet.
hora - Member
Any wholeoats- any brands/etc to recommend?
Sorry No, I don't go near the stuff personally.
honey has glucose and fructose and not really that different to table sugar
This is the trouble with looking at lists of ingredients and chemical formulae - it completely overlooks the presentation of the food material, any other nutrients it may contain and their potential interactions.
Jordan's crunchy oats keeps me going for ages. It's got sugar in it but it's also got fat, and is very much whole grain. I would guess it's fairly low GI.
I don't eat it any more, mind.
molgrips - Member
How much water do you use?
see answer to Hora above, I eat very few grain based products personally and certainly not in bulk form like a bowl of porridge
