Nursery costs £££

When I think of our three, the kids they’ve encountered in school who’ve been a little “challenging” have been the ones maximising childcare

Complete exact opposite to my experience. Anecdotes eh?

It's not an us and them situation - as many have pointed out, most have sacrificed in many ways to raise kids and the emotional trauma of that fades in time. What I was alluding to was that in the current climate one of the major options that many in the past chose to do (1 person staying home to raise the kids) may not be viable even for those earning a decent single wage. Rent/mortgage and living costs are bordering on prohibitive. Many more people have degrees and don't want to have career breaks which can be longer than half a decade.

I'm fortunate to have done this 10 years ago (house purchase 7.5 years ago), youngest born 5 years ago, but I see my younger colleagues struggling. These are professional engineers with almost 8 years of experience and you can see the effect it's having. Cars gone, bikes gone, no holidays, turning down leaving parties because they can't afford it, part-time jobs delivering for justeat, compressed hours and partial childcare just to stay above water.

Another thing to consider is just how hard it is to manage 2 full time, professional jobs (whose hours regularly exceed your contract hours, but are not paid for) and young kids and not feel like a total failure at everything. A 6AM start and a 9PM finish is normal, you've got homework and shopping and cleaning and cooking to squeeze into any non-work time. Contrast this with one person at home - With one person at home, all this is easier. You don't have to be home at a fixed time, you don't have to cook when you get home and prepare clothes and breakfast for the next day for everyone, etc.

I agree with @amedias that bigger thinking is required for this. Do we want or even need a more comprehensive system and is there the means and support for that? But then, the same could be said for environmental issues and on either issue, I don't think we'll see much action until the next general election.

Daffy, why don't you just say what's pissing you off - as something clearly is.
Your comment about 'boomer generation disposable income' looks like a pointer.
You refer to a good professional job paying £40k; one of those is wrong.
How about a view from the other end of the telescope?
My (now adult) children were born in 86, 89, 92 when interest and mortgage rates were multiples higher than they are today; nursery costs were not subsidised; there were no hours of free childcare.
My parents were 200+ miles away so that limited their support; MIL was much closer but useless.
We lived near Bristol at the time so I'm familiar with it being a high cost area.
A far smaller proportion of families had 2 cars; upgrading either of both cars regularly was unkown to most families.
One holiday a year at best - load car, drive to france and camp.
Netflix, Sky, Virgin, streaming services - didn't exist so money that would have been spent/wasted on them was available to support family.
Wardrobe upgrades and refreshes? No.
Ooh look, we can upgrade...insert household appliance here; no, none of that.
Regular socialising including use of/reliance on take aways? Didn't happen.
Usage of credit card - if you could get one - was strictly controlled.
Being 'invited' to discuss your spending with bank manager when going marginally overdrawn each month happened several times.
Tight and focussed budgeting.
There wasn't a focus on having new and shiny - functional, not frivolous, underpinned most/all buying decisions.
Multiple bikes, watches or anything else? No.
Second jobs - doing whatever was required to keep everything going.
Let me assure you - it wasn't easy or comfortable back then.

I earn an average wage and partner below average. She has stopped working and we are surviving by eating into savings every month which I have only seen mentioned by a few people so far

The savings are going down quicker than anticipated due to rising cost of everything

We have also cut back on the usual things and I work overtime when possible

If couples aren't savings money each month before kids then I don't know how they expect to survive when they come along

I kind of get why older people keep banging on about Netflix, holidays and car payments. In the 90’s, on 12k a year, saving the same amounts would have made a massive difference. Sky vs Netflix and mobile bills were 4x what they are today, no Easyjet or Ryanair and you got pulled into abusive hp car schemes.

My comment about the boomer generation wasn’t a jibe, it was from an article published by the FT in 2018.

My gripe is that those who raised children in different times seem to trivialise the problems of those going through it today, by focussing on irrelevancies like Netflix, Disney, etc to imply that people aren’t willing enough or strong enough or sacrifice enough to avoid having to use expensive childcare and that they’re just whinging about it. What you’re essentially saying is “toughen up princess, stop being a whiny snowflake”

I remember what it was like back in the 90s, most paid for Sky, many rented TVs, lots of people went out on Fridays and Blockbuster was a thing. Lots of people did a foreign holiday every year and most people OWNED a car. People always had money, it was spent a little differently, but it was there for many.

As for interest rates, don’t be so obtuse. 12% interest on £27k means on a 25y repayment mortgage means 90% of the annual repayment is interest at £300/m. Less than 33% of one average salary before tax. Today, £300k at 5% means you’re paying £15000 a year in interest. 50% of one average salary before tax. That’s not including anything else. That’s the same exact house sold in 1985 and 2021 in Bristol and an assumption of 10% deposit and national average wage at the same time the house was sold

What I’m sick of is people treating late Gen-X and Millennials as slackers who don’t know how to plan, sacrifice and budget. All those who start with “back in my day”. Well, the days are bloody different and you should perhaps look at the whole picture and place yourself in their shoes before lambasting them.

I’m a late gen X/early millennial and a large percentage of my peers use a lot of credit and rental. Cars, credit cards, subscriptions to all sorts. I have none of that. No debts other than mortgage and a rotating single subscription to whichever service has the best stuff on at any given time. I don’t need to place myself in their shoes, I’m wearing them. House purchase in 2014, same year my eldest was born and my salary plus Mrs F’s at the time was a lot more than mine is now.

https://www.economist.com/britain/2022/06/30/british-child-care-is-expensive

outdated subheading to the article.

mobile bills were 4x what they are today

IIRC by first mobile was with Orange at £17.50/month on contract for something like 20 minutes worth of calls a month. Data didn't exists and texts hadn't really taken off yet. - although every New Year the networks would collapse under the weight of Happy NY texts and you'd still be receiving them in the first week of January as their servers recovered....

IIRC by first mobile was with Orange at £17.50/month on contract for something like 20 minutes worth of calls a month

Wow. My first contract was Orange EveryDay50 - 50 free minutes a day for 50p a day. That was 1550 minutes a month for £15.50! These days I pay for about 200 mins a month!

You pay for minutes? How very 20th Century of you.

I can't remember now what my first mobile contract costed, back then it covered the network plan plus the handset cost with no clear delineation. I do remember that SMSes were charged outside of that contract, they were 10p-12p per message. International texting - when it even worked - was something mad like 45p.

You refer to a good professional job paying £40k; one of those is wrong.

Which one ?

That should provide a good idea of which end of the telescope your looking from.

My (now adult) children were born in 86, 89, 92 when interest and mortgage rates were multiples higher than they are today;

Indeed but the figure those rates applied to were multiple multiples lower than they are now ....which has a bigger effect

Phone bill about two G's flat
No need to worry, my accountant handles that

Which one ?

That should provide a good idea of which end of the telescope your looking from.

I wondered that.

I'm in a "a good professional job" and I'm not on 40k. Though of late I'm increasingly thinking that my employer is taking the piss.