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Lord Far Far.
If Far Far does a visit to Scotland ,I really hope I get the chance to use my ( Jane Godley style) protest sign.
Speaking of "reform" patriots since Tice isnt worthy of his own thread.
I see Tice is showing his deep love of Skegness by his family moving there to really make sure they are embedded in their local community.
Ah, sorry, my mistake they have moved to Dubai.
I wonder what Nigel Farage thinks about his nephew only getting a £576 fine for his vile and disgusting behaviour? The pervert isn't even going to be put on the sex offender's register!
I think someone should ask Nigel Farage, after all he seems keen to express his opinions on other legal cases, such as the tragic Southport case.
https://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/24883939.orpington-man-joseph-farage-fined-upskirting-offence/
The probelm is most of the public are genuiny daft, and they will belive any info they are fed.
I was in the pub earlier, not a proper pub, a chain pub, and having a crafty cig outside there were a bunch of 'trades persons' getting very vocal about how trump is a 'straight talker' and that's why he's courting Farage and not Starmer.... because trump 'gets things done', and we need someone like that in the UK.
I wanted to leave with my teeth intact, so I didn't get involved, never mind mention that Trump has just ripped up a load of legistlation for diabetics getting cheaper insulin.
I mean it's basically free in the UK... if you were an american citizen...if you were diagnosed with diabeties or something...your basically ****ed, what are you gonna do, remortgage the house, and basicaly go bankrupt to pay for a few years worth of injections?
The probelm is most of the public are genuiny daft, and they will belive any info they are fed.
Yes and no. All of us are vulnerable to it and often its those who consider themselves to bright to be fooled who are the easiest con targets. We are all prone to bias and manipulation and even when acknowledging that its far from fool proof.
I was in the pub earlier, not a proper pub, a chain pub, and having a crafty cig outside there were a bunch of ‘trades persons’ getting very vocal about how trump is a ‘straight talker’
I do find this ‘straight talker’ bizarre. If we take it as the vaguely dictionary definition "honest and direct" doesnt that explain most peoples position?
I could believe 27.5 is best and you could be radical and stay with 26 and we could be both equally a " ‘straight talker’". Its only if either of us checks the opinion polls and goes "yeah 29 wins" to win the votes that we arent being " ‘straight talkers"
I could believe 27.5 is best and you could be radical and stay with 26 and we could be both equally a ” ‘straight talker’”. Its only if either of us checks the opinion polls and goes “yeah 29 wins” to win the votes that we arent being ” ‘straight talkers”
It's been heading that way for years now. Doing a good thing or being nice = virtue signaling / woke and therefore it's bad.
Doing a bad thing or using slurs = triggering the libs and it's therefore good. Also "free speech!"
But if the people being triggered are your lot (gammons) it's back to being bad and you shouldn't be allowed to say such hurty things.
straight talker
It’s because the modern politician is always shying away from answering questions, whereas the grifters are happy to answer the question as they always have an answer and that’s it immigrants/foreigners the EU or any other bogeyman that’s going to rape your job,take your children etc.
You'll currently notice that Enoch Badenuff is currently on the telly in her kitchen explaining how she going to tell it how it is and is owning up to failures (obviously others)in the Conservative Party as she is attempting to portray herself as a straight talker.
if you were diagnosed with diabeties or something…your basically ****, what are you gonna do, remortgage the house, and basicaly go bankrupt to pay for a few years worth of injections?
Was talking to a family friend the other day who now lives in America. That's exactly what happens if you do't have health insurance, you go bankrupt (unless you are above retirement age)!
He was in hospital for a few days with a heart issue. He was covered but the bill, which you get like a shop receipt, was over 40k.
FFS, the best ever opinion poll for Reform UK out today, a four point lead over Labour.
https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1885080336633090227
And it's a big sample size too.
Hardly surprising when Labour are just offering a wishy washy version of tories and reform . Vicious anti asylum seeker laws. Right wing economics. Brexiteers. Anti immigrant rhetoric benefit scrounger rhetoric.
Labour need to offer a real alternative including CU membership.
Why vote for a pale imitation when you can have the real thing.
Note SNP have increased their support and a pro eu pro tax and spend pro immigration policy
No it would not. CU membership is hugely popular. A majority even in Farages constituency. A majority across the whole UK and that is with labour campaigning against it
That it's an electoral liability is a labour lie to protect Starmers position.
Note SNP have increased their support
No I hadn't, which poll are you referring to? The one I linked doesn't seem to show any increase in support for the SNP.
Anyway for a change let's not, important as you think it is, focus on the less than 10% of voters who happen to live in Scotland. Instead let's look at the other 90%......who are they supporting?
It was a poll you posted a week or two ago. It shows that folk will vote for a pro Europe party given given the chance.. iirc it showed the SNP despite all their woes would take back most of the seats they lost to labour
My point is that all labour are offering is tory or reform lite. Chasing racist votes does not work when you are easily outracisted.
I know a good few former labour voters who will never vote for a brexiteer immigrant demonising benefit scrounging haters labour patry
For those on the right why vote for a pale imitation when you can vote for the real thing? Chasing reform votes will never work. They need to counter reform not kowtow to them
It shows that folk will vote for a pro Europe party given given the chance..
So why hasn't support for the LibDems increased then? More people have a chance to vote LibDem than they have to vote SNP, and yet their support has remained remarkably static and it is still half of what it was 15 years ago.
And lib dems have zero chance of ever being a government nor have they been pushing a pro Europe agenda keeping silent on it until a few quiet wispers recently.
Mind you greens have a increase on a very pro Europe stance
Closer ties with Europe invluding CU is a popular position. Polling shows that. A majority even in Farages seat
So why hasn’t support for the LibDems increased then?
Because of our antidemocratic electoral system. There's no point voting for your preferred party if they aren't close to winning the seat.
Also, plenty of people are (still, remarkably) utterly delusional about Labour's supposedly pro-europeans instincts. With Starmer in charge, they don't have any.
Also, plenty of people are (still, remarkably) utterly delusional about Labour’s supposedly pro-europeans instincts.
Although the most delusional are the ones opposed to it.
Which is the flaw of the "playing into Farages" hands argument. He just lies about it anyway and those inclined to oppose believe him vs those who are in favour who seem more likely to realise its false.
Might as well commit to it since labour will be accused of it anyway.
I wonder what happened 15 years ago to the Lib Dem’s which has resulted in them no longer being trusted by the electorate…
I wonder why the Lib Dems are the only party that voters seem bothered about holding to account. The truth is that the Lib Dems somewhat diluted the extremes of what the Conservatives wanted to do in that parliament, and yet in a sea of broken manifesto promises from every party ever in power they are the only ones who have this broken promise thrown back in their face time after time after time.
And lib dems have zero chance of ever being a government
Wow, you dismiss the lack of increased support for the LibDems because you claim they have zero chance of ever being a government, and then you point to increase support for the Greens as proof of how popular pro-EU parties are!! Talk about being selective!
The Greens received 7% of the vote at the last general election, they are currently polling about 7-10%. Yes it represents an improvement which is hardly surprising considering what a disappointment Labour has been for a good many people, including on environmental issues, but no it does not prove that EU membership is the driving issue behind the increase.
These days I strongly back the Greens, I don't think you doubt my opposition to the EU. Like most people I see EU membership as a nonissue right now in UK politics. The reason that support for the Greens has increased in the last six months, if it indeed has, has nothing to do with EU membership and everything to do with the direction Starmer's government has taken.
Provide evidence that pro-EU parties are gaining support at Labour's expense because of the issue of EU membership, so far you haven't and yet you repeatedly make that claim as if it was obvious, it isn't.
And btw despite your dismissive attitude there is in fact a very good chance indeed that the LibDems could be in the government after the next general election, it just depends on how the arithmetic of first-past-the-post pans out. And there is no reason why under the current political situation voters would not be aware of that.
I wonder why the Lib Dems are the only party that voters seem bothered about holding to account............they are the only ones who have this broken promise thrown back in their face time after time after time.
So what is your explanation? I agree btw, I find it frankly astonishing that voters have such a long memory with regards to the LibDems.
They say that a week is a long time in politics and yet 15 years later many voters still haven't forgiven the LibDems for enabling a Tory administration and enthusiastically supporting austerity, the principle reason why we are in such a mess today.
Despite currently backing the Green Party nationally I actually supported the LibDem candidate in my constituency last general election because he had by far the best position on the issue of Palestine than any other candidate. As far as I was concerned if your moral compass doesn't include opposition to genocide I don't want you to represent me on any issue.
I wonder why the Lib Dems are the only party that voters seem bothered about holding to account
This video probably helps to explain why voters expected far more from the LibDems than they expect from Labour and the Tories.
It's not a spoof, although considering what happened shortly after it was broadcast you could be forgiven for thinking that it was.
I wonder why the Lib Dems are the only party that voters seem bothered about holding to account.
You mention "The truth" but, to put it mildly, thats only truth in the most optimistic telling.
The Libdems had several problems.
The starter for ten is obviously both the tories and labour want to put the boot in. Which means the right wing press shares the same opinion and, if labour are suitably "centrist", so does the guardian leaving not much of the media to fight their corner.
Another is, unfortunately, the 2010 election was a perfect storm with the right wing "orange book" lib dem leadership/mps losing out to their membership on a vote on student fees (plus a few others) and so had to have an idea in their manifesto that they hated. Sadly though instead of going silent on the subject they decided actually it would be a vote winner which indeed it was.
The problem came when it was time to discuss policies for a coalition and Clegg and co happily surrendered on those policies whilst not being hardline enough on others eg the vote referendum where the ****wits allowed Cameron to decide on AV only and have a free hand (honestly if we are blaming people for brexit I rate Clegg high up the list since his stupidity on this referendum I think helped convince the ****wit Cameron that he was a PR genius and hence would easily win the brexit referendum).
tl:dr
Whilst the libdem membership had complex positions the libdem leadership aka clegg and co were pretty hardcore free market ****wits and hence were happy to accept the tories position on way too much. Perhaps if the leadership had matched the party things would have been different.
As a side note the paymaster behind the orange book lot is now bankrolling gbeebies. Possibly something for the self declared adults in the room to consider when lecturing others.
Like most people I see EU membership as a nonissue right now in UK politics.
In your little englander corner maybe. Its the elephant in the room.
As for evidence. The recovery of the SNP who are yhe only major party who arr actually telling the truth on brexit. The SNP should be being smashed to bits given the shambles they are but instead after a ahite GE they have recovered strongly on an openly loud pro EU stance.
Thr other data is the ever increasing majority for rejoin in polls despite none of the Westminster parties pushing it
Public opinion miles ahead of Westminster
GB news today's interview with a Fisherman hasnt helped their brexit argument.
GB news is definitely attempting to separate itself from its previous pro brexit stance. Same as Farage, refuses to take any blame for his part in pushing that issue.
What we need is something like a large visible poster showing the quotes(and results) of farages and the pro brexiters lies. Where peoples concerns were treated with sarcastic replies
Blame where blame is bloody due.
Number of people thinking Britain right to leave EU hits record low, at 30%, poll suggests
On Friday it will be the fifth anniversary of the day the UK left the European Union. YouGov says the number of people who thnk that was the right decision is down to a record low in its polling, at 30%.
Has Brexit been more of a success or more of a failure? All Britons More of a success: 11% More of a failure: 62% Neither: 20% Leave voters More of a success: 22% More of a failure: 32% Neither: 38%
Most Britons support rejoining the EU % who support... Closer relationship with EU, without rejoining it or components: 64% Rejoin EU: 55% Rejoin Single Market: 50% Rejoin Customs Union: 48% Status quo: 27% Loosening ties further: 19% https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/51484-how-do-britons-feel-about-brexit-five-years-on
The fact that 1/3 of the country is still opposed to rejoining worries me (vs 55% that support). That is still a very divisive split.
Then I wonder whether actually I'm still in that camp - that the whole effort, division, cost, and likely worse conditions we'd get capture some that say 'that boat has sailed'. If that weren't the case then yes, I'd be in but the reality is that you play the ball as it lies. And given how the ball lies, the safe shot is the better one.
And so now I'm more in camp 2 - we're out and that's something to accept for now, but we absolutely must be seeking agreements that give us better accesses, etc. Like this for example https://sciencebusiness.net/news/horizon-europe/uk-launches-fresh-push-drum-horizon-europe-interest - with the benefit that 'only' 15% of the country oppose that vs 64% that support it, much less divisive.
I know you'll say that with that majority then who cares, and look where 'don't spook the horses' has got us so far and I'd find that very justified. Maybe I'm just a scaredy cat.
Number of people thinking Britain right to leave EU hits record low, at 30%, poll suggests
The problem with these sorts of headlines is that [like most] it lack nuance. Once you get into the weeds about which age group and what party they vote for, the fact is that as folks age and become more right wing they become more content with Brexit. So vast numbers of left leaning millennials and gen Y'ers think it's been a disaster, (surprisingly enough) most Gen X'ers are spilt more or less 50/50 and most Boomers - especially right leaning, think it's all fine. Thing is, it's only the Gen X'ers and Boomers that tend to go and vote.
Thats a poor excuse for inaction. Those are the numbers with all the main parties being hard brexiteers and the lib dems being quiet. Imagine jow much they would move with a decent campaign.
Its also a significant majority of leave voters.
Public opinipn in all age groups and a leave and temain voters is massively in favour of some form of teturn.
The only real sticking point is Starmets cowardice in admitting he got it wrong.
Imagine what being on the side of such a huge majority
Of public sentiment would do for labour's popularity
Yup, Sir Ed is being very quiet about it, this is currently on the front page of the BBC.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgxz0zjnk4o
The Lib Dem membership is now pretty much dominated by people who joined after 2016 directly due to their Pro-EU stance and who will never ever forgive the Tories for Brexit. It's a very different party from the coaliton days.
So what is your explanation? I agree btw, I find it frankly astonishing that voters have such a long memory with regards to the LibDems.
Broken promises are routine (and in many case no bad thing; politics is terrible about reviewing and changing decisions) but this was a core pledge thrown away so that the party leader could jump into bed with David Cameron. It was dropped purely for one man's personal gain and that was supported by the other elected members.
Mind you, they might get another opportunity now that Starmer is basically positioning Labour where Cameron had the Tories in 2012.
Like most people I see EU membership as a nonissue right now in UK politics.
.
In your little englander corner maybe. Its the elephant in the room.
You managed to contradict yourself in two consecutive sentences. It very obviously wouldn't be "the elephant in the room" if it was an issue which was of concern to voters.
It would be a topic that was constantly and openly discussed, you know like other issues that make the headlines..... cost of living, environmental issues, the NHS, etc.
The results of opinion polls with regards to the importance of an issue are totally irrelevant. An opinion poll out last week actually showed a similar level of support for capital punishment as for EU membership, over 50% supported the reintroduction of capital punishment whilst about 30% opposed it.
Is this proof that capital punishment is a big issue with voters, is it the "elephant in the room" that no one wants to talk about? Of course not. Some people got a phone call from a pollster and they answered a question, it doesn't provide any proof that the issue is important or urgent to them.
I am happy to be corrected though, provide me with credible evidence that the issue of the EU is recieving the same level of concern as the economy, the NHS, transport, the environment, etc.
As for evidence. The recovery of the SNP who are yhe only major party who arr actually telling the truth on brexit.
Putting aside the suggestion that there is nothing else to attract voters to the SNP than its position on the EU, more than 90% of voters do not live in Scotland, if the burning issue is EU membership to them then why do approximately 75% of UK voters support the Labour Party, the Tories, and Reform UK?
Or is support for political parties only relevant when it backs up your narrative and completely irrelevant when it doesn't?
Apologies fir the rubbish typing. Im doing this in the dark without my reading glasses
FFS calm down, debating EU membership on stw isn't that critical and urgent....... turn the lights on and find your reading glasses.
It would be a topic that was constantly and openly discussed, you know like other issues that make the headlines
There's the problem, unless it's in the headlines it doesn't make the news. I wonder why that may be?
There are too many in the news media who don't or won't understand the bind we are in as a result of our collective act of self harm. Mr "bin-juice" should be regularly asked when the benefits of withdrawal are going to be seen by the person on the "Clapham Omnibus". He has no answer other than it's a good wheeze for him and his mates to bleed the rest of us for cash.
In the light of the ongoing 'bit of a mess' the other side of the pond we need a big ally that is not capricious. The trade team for the EU are ferociously professional as Melon and Trump are going to find out. Data rights in the light of the unsanctioned/insecure(?) servers hooked to the government systems this weekend are due to be enacted with no export out of contiguous EU being permitted.
UK is currently in a very perilous place and we're next on the fascists list.
Let's hope Lord Far Far protects our freshly won sovereignty.