Forum menu
the fact is that as folks age and become more right wing they become more content with Brexit.
That’s not what your next points (which I’m not disputing) show - they show that older people are more right wing now, not that the younger ones will age towards a more right wing tendency.
It was conventional wisdom but I am given to understand that it’s not necessarily true going forward.
a topic that was constantly and openly discussed
It is. Politicians are avoiding it though. With good reason. But the public? It’s always coming up. Trump winning and looking to punish other countries with tariffs has increased discussion around the obvious… clubbing together in Europe has benefits for all the countries of Europe, and many of their partners without the size and influence of the biggest countries… and those benefits increase as the leaders of USA, Russia and China threaten our interests for political advantage at home.
It is. Politicians are avoiding it though. With good reason. But the public? It’s always coming up.
So how about providing some evidence to back up that claim? And the idea that politicians are the only people who decide what gets constantly and openly discussed is just silly. Although I am sure they would love it if life was that easy for them.
the fact is that as folks age and become more right wing they become more content with Brexit.
Unless they want to retire in Spain and live ‘The Dream’ 🙂
Probably more worrying was that the tik-tok gen seem to think having a dictator run the U.K. would be good 🙂
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/feb/02/shocking-finding-gen-z-democracy-isnt-perfect
Anyway what was that urgent political party broadcast about That fartage was on about democracy being stolen, TBH I thought he’d got his countries mixed up 🙂
It’s not an excuse, it’s reality. There isn’t a 70% pro re-join majority, and its foolish to think otherwise
I think my main worry is that a rush to rejoin to the EU ends up being a major election point on the betrayal of the Brexit,that gets milked by Reform and the Tories and the massive misinformation engines get fired up again, there doesn’t seem to be a current way to counter attack this.
The trade team for the EU are ferociously professional as Melon and Trump are going to find out.
Yep, didn’t go well for the Trumpster or Harley D last time
In 2018, the Trump administration imposed additional tariffs on EU goods, with a 25% duty on steel and 10% on aluminum, aimed at boosting U.S. domestic production.
In response, the EU retaliated by imposing additional customs duties on certain U.S. products under Regulation 2018/886. Among the list of products were Harley-Davidson motorcycles.
Background of the case
Harley-Davidson motorcycles became subject to additional EU import duties of 25% in 2018, followed by another 25% in 2021. The total import duties for Harley Davidson motorbikes are therefore:6% for the standard import rate plus,
25% additional duty in June 2018 plus,
another 25% of additional duty in June 2021.
In the end the tarif didn’t go up another 25% but HD did try to get around it by making them in Thailand but that ended up causing another problem as the EU said that was Tax avoidance, it had been shelved as both the US and the EU set about negotiations on steel and aluminum tariffs.
I’m not sure what the current state of duty is on a Harley but 56% would have decimated their sales.
So how about providing some evidence to back up that claim?
I’m speaking about the conversations I hear all the time. I’m not recording them for internet debating points. Get your head out of the sand and wake up to the fact that Brexit was self-defeating for the UK, and most people know that now. The big question is how we make sure the con artists that tricked us into it don’t trick us again. Trump’s second presidency has got more people voicing their concerns recently.
And the idea that politicians are the only people who decide what gets constantly and openly discussed is just silly
Well, as I didn’t say that, and I don’t think that, I don’t know why you brought it up.
I think my main worry is that a rush to rejoin to the EU ends up being a major election point on the betrayal of the Brexit,that gets milked by Reform and the Tories and the massive misinformation engines get fired up again, there doesn’t seem to be a current way to counter attack this.
Arguably there are good reasons to worry that misinformation will be much better amplified, and there is even less chance to counter it. The main Social Media platforms would most likely have changed how they operate for the worse, for example. People who are up for the war of ideas and information happening anytime soon I fear are underestimating how the battles would play out, by placing so much faith in how people currently view Brexit while it’s not a key headline voting issue.
I’m speaking about the conversations I hear all the time. I’m not recording them for internet debating points.
Well that's hardly a convincing argument that backs up TJ's claim that the number one issue with voters currently is the EU.
Obviously I can understand why you might have come to that conclusion if you based it on political conversations on STW threads, but STW is very far from being anywhere near representative of the wider voting public.
Reform UK now enjoys roughly the same level of support nationally as the Labour Party does, the combined Tory-Reform support is equal to approximately twice that of Labour. And yet despite that I don't think you will find one single obvious Reform UK supporter on any STW political thread, nevermind double the amount of Tory-Reform supporters to Labour supporters!
The LibDems have an undisputable commitment to the European project dating back to its Liberal Party days. If LibDem politicians choose not to talk about rejoining the EU then it is purely because firstly they know that voters do not treat it as a priority issue, and secondly because they are perfectly aware that it is not currently a vote winner for them. It is certainly not because they lack a commitment to the EU.
Get your head out of the sand and wake up to the fact that Brexit was self-defeating for the UK, and most people know that now.
I love the idea of someone who appears to base their perceptions of what most concerns voters on the narrow views expressed in an echo chamber telling me to get my head out of the sand!
What I personally think is utterly irrelevant to what the wider voting public prioritises. You could convince me that leaving the EU was the worse thing to have ever happened since the 1066 Norman invasion and it would not change by one iota the fact that the issue is currently of little importance to the average UK voter.
Wake up, get your head out of the sand, and look at what the polls are telling us.
that backs up TJ’s claim that the number one issue with voters currently is the EU
I never said that
I never said that
You have repeatedly claimed over and over and over again that voters are deserting Labour because of Labour's stance on the EU and instead backing pro-EU parties, without providing any convincing evidence.
If you are not claiming that it is the number one issue what then are you claiming?
A new mega-poll :
The analysis of who is being attracted to Reform UK is particularly interesting and it certainly reflects very similar shifting patterns in Europe and the United States :
Its analysis of almost 4,000 voters currently minded to back Reform found that one in five were “moderate, interventionist” voters who were unlike those who had backed Farage at the last election or supported Ukip or the Brexit party in the past.
They were quite positive about immigration and in favour of a strong state, but disillusioned with the ability of the main parties to deliver.
The analysis comes with some of the most senior figures in the Labour party focused on the threat posed by Reform, which many see as the result of a collapse in the belief that the mainstream parties are able to improve the lives of ordinary people.
Nick Lowles, chief executive of Hope Not Hate, who analysed the findings, said that there was a clear and present threat to Labour should it fail to deliver the improvements to living standards and public services that Starmer has promised.
“Strong anti-immigration views were dominant among those who voted Reform in the 2024 general election, but those who have begun to support the party since then have far more diverse views.
“This includes a sizeable group of voters who are actually quite positive towards the benefits of immigration and multiculturalism but increasingly feel the main parties have failed and it is time for something new.”
Personally I don't think that the current Labour Party will step up to the challenge because the centrists who control the party lack any motivation or understanding of how to tackle the failed neoliberal experiment and instead offer a radical alternative.
I suspect that they will resign themselves to accepting what they see as the inevitable - a Tory-Reform government. In much the same way as the last Tory government resigned themselves into accepting an inevitable Labour landslide.
The Tories didn't change course and this Labour government won't either, both were/are incapable of doing so welded as they are to neoliberal orthodoxy.
I doubt that they even care that much as firstly they probably believe that a Tory-Reform government won't personally effect them very much, and secondly because many will not have entered politics as conviction politicians.
They will probably shrug their shoulders and deny any responsibility claiming that the electorate suddenly and inexplicably became racist, that seems to be the preferred excuse for centrists when discussing the disconnection with voters.
It was conventional wisdom but I am given to understand that it’s not necessarily true going forward.
It was never true but often used alongside that false Churchill quote and mutterings about "sixth formers".
There is some evidence peoples decisions become more fixed as they get older but thats in whatever direction you already were.
In addition if there is a significant shift in a social/economic position over a generation or two which isnt shared by all parties which could result in the older generation clustering towards the party which still holds the older view. It isnt that they have changed parties but that the parties have moved.
Lest it sounds that I am putting ALL the blame on the centrists where are the radical left in response to the growing threat that the far-right poses?
Sure many got hammered and driven out of the Labour Party but they can't keep licking their wounds forever. Even if it is from a position of great weakness there is no reason why they can't start organising and fighting back - the threat is real enough.
If Nigel Farage can start a movement which looks as if it is in the process of effectively challenging 200 years of Tory right-wing dominance then there is no reason why the left cannot start to challenge the dominance of Labour.
I honestly don't know what the **** the left are doing apart from **** all. I no longer understand what is so great about Islington North not having a Labour MP. It's not exactly as if there is all the time in the world, politics is unpredictable and changing at an alarming rate.
The fact that 1/3 of the country is still opposed to rejoining worries me (vs 55% that support). That is still a very divisive split.
66.6% in favour of rejoining is a much more decisive majority, unlike the 51% majority that took us crashing out.
Half of the referundum con was the 'simple majority' .. the other half of the con were all the lies that were peddaled to only get 1% over the line.
If it was an official referendum, rather than advisory, the bar would have been higher, and theres no law that says a UK government has to impliment the resulsts of a non official referendum.
The entire thing was a hatchet job from start end. Well, not 'end' as we've hardly implimented anything yet, we (as a counrty) just seem to be going round in circles for almost 10 years now... total insanity.
That's the problem with implimenting vast, sweeping changes from a microscopic majority from an advisory opinion poll, which is all the brexit vote was, legally speaking.
66.6% in favour of rejoining is a much more decisive majority, unlike the 51% majority that took us crashing out
It's not 66.6% in favour of rejoining, I thought it was clear it was 55%. There's 12% that don't care/don't know.
So exclude them and it's more like 60:40 - still substantially better than 52:48 but also still a very divisive issue.
And you're right that we have still to implement a lot, but equally we also 'left' and can't just go back to how everything was. That's why despite being pro-EU I'm on balance not for an immediate rejoin, rather in favour of accepting where we are and trying to get closer ties that can be achieved and can be beneficial.
But sure, produce a magic wand or a time machine, that gives us back what we have lost without having to go through the paralysing process of another referendum and then negotiation to still get nowhere near to where we were, and I'd be firmly with you.
Call me a brexiteer if you like, but we're out and our best course is now to seek stepwise alignments and closer ties.
What would be the point of 'rejoining' at this juncture?
Who do you think we would be returning to the European Parliament as our representatives?
If we were to have elections to a European Parliament, 'right' now, who do you think would benefit from that?
Until we can sort ourselves out, they're well rid. Why would they want us?
Who do you think we would be returning to the European Parliament as our representatives?
I don't think many people in the UK realised they could vote for our MEPs until Farage became a representative for fisheries and did (checks notes) absolutely nothing. On full expenses. And then complained very loudly that none of his European counterparts were listening to him in (checks notes again) the meetings he never bothered to turn up to.
It wasn't something that was really publicised, unlike local elections and general elections.
I suspect there would be a little bit more public scruitiny and interest in who our MEPs are, today.
No, no he doesn't. He's already shat on the country getting airtime in the US and there's no reason not to believe he can keep on doing that and still see support for Reform continue to grow.
People _will_ see his message (immigrant's fault, not racist, but...) as why there are so many problems and fall for it in exactly the same way that people will see what is happening in the US and still think Cheeto Benito is a disruptive outsider that will make their country leaner, better and with cheaper petrol than before.
rather in favour of accepting where we are and trying to get closer ties that can be achieved and can be beneficial.
Impossible to have anything of significance witout the 4 freedoms
Its a lot bigger majority than you say acvoding to the stuff i posted and that is with the Westminster parties all toeing the hard brexit line bar the lib dems with a tentative pro euope voice
Its a lot bigger majority than you say acvoding to the stuff i posted
I took the numbers directly from the link you posted https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/51484-how-do-britons-feel-about-brexit-five-years-on
Hopefully this doesn't get lost into formatting, to avoid retyping stuff take ++ to mean strongly support, + means support, - means oppose, etc.
"Britain having a closer relationship with the European Union, without rejoining the European Union, the Single Market, or the Customs Union
++ 24
+ 40
o 20
- 9
- - 6
"Britain rejoining the European Union
++ 39
+16
o 12
- 8
- -25
If you can turn that into anything other than 55% for and 33% against rejoin = 60:40ish then pls explain. And my point is that it's very divisive; the ++ and - - being the most confrontational, and also the largest factions. Put another way almost 2/3 of people feel strongly about rejoining; the third in the middle are the ones that would have to try to glue it together.
64:15 on a closer relationship has far less negativity and more than 80:20 in favour
Well Nigel Farage will be happy with this, the latest seat prediction claims that if there was a general election right now he would get an extra 170 MPs, one more than Labour, although three less than the Tories.
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/blogs/ec_vipoll_20250207.html
Bearing in mind that Farage undoubtedly had some sort of control over the Reform UK candidates standing in the more winnable seats last July, I cannot begin to imagine what sort of muppet is likely to stand in the 175th most Reform winnable seat. I guess that we might eventually find out 😕
It's certainly interesting, I'm just hoping that the man frog manages to keel over before the next election kicks off. Not having the charismatic (the mind boggles) figure head would hopefully crash their support.
Well farage is going full nazi
"Strength through joy" i believe was the phrase
Are you sure that praising “Judeo-Christian culture” is going full Nazi?
Apologies fir the rubbish typing. Im doing this in the dark without my reading glasses
FFS calm down, debating EU membership on stw isn't that critical and urgent....... turn the lights on and find your reading glasses.
Clearly, otherwise they’d be taking all the care you’re suggesting, putting the light on and wearing their reading glasses.
The fact that they aren’t tends to suggest they’re pretty calm and they don’t feel it’s critical or urgent.
🤷🏼♂️
Is this the Lord Far Far that has specifically targeted European Judeo Christians to stop them coming to our country, while other faiths remain unaffected?
Is this the Lord Far Far that wants to remove my right to worship a Judeo Christian god by taking away my European Human Rights?
Nij-Al Farage ,the scourge of Christianity.
Are you sure that praising “Judeo-Christian culture” is going full Nazi?
Well, it certainly seems to be working for the Evangelical Nationalist Christians in North America, who are really only one stage from replacing the stars on the American flag with swastikas - it’s basically ’The Man In The High Castle’.
For those unfamiliar with the book, or who don’t read science fiction…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_in_the_High_Castle
I see Liz Truss was touting her poisonous rhetoric on GBTv recently as well - can’t we truss (ha!) her and Farage up, chuck them into the hold of a transport plane and airfreight them to Arsehole, Indiana, without documentation and dump them somewhere?
I’m sure they’ll feel right at home.
On the four freedoms stuff - am I allowed to want my freedoms back? I liked having more freedom.
In fact, when it happens don’t call it the rejoin party call it the Freedom Party.
Are you sure that praising “Judeo-Christian culture” is going full Nazi?
Did you just not get which one TJAgain was referring to? There is a strong hint in the phrase used.
Although speaking of "Judeo-Christian". Didnt Jesus and family seek political asylum for a time (depending on which version you use) so maybe Farage will take a sudden switch in positions.
Are you sure that praising “Judeo-Christian culture” is going full Nazi?
Full Nazi, not exactly. Full racist dog-whistle, absolutely.
Apparently Nige is refusing to do Media, must be a first. i wonder what might have prompted this....
Did you just not get which one TJAgain was referring to? There is a strong hint in the phrase used.
Absolutely. I based my comment on this phrase which TJ used :
"Strength through joy" i believe was the phrase
That is obviously a historical reference to a slogan used by the Nazis in Germany.
The Nazis took the Judeo out of Judeo-Christian culture. They scrapped the Old Testament and rejigged the New Testament so there was no references to Jesus Christ being Jewish. In fact according to the Nazis Jesus was a Nordic Amorite who heroically fought the wicked Jews.
I think even Donald Trump would struggle to come up with something like that!
Other parties should be making more of the implied support of all the crazy stuff coming out of the US at the moment, by the honourable member for Clacton D.C.
I haven't seen any Farage or Reform responses to the latest pro-Russia craziness from the Orange Toddler. It's interesting that the right wing press in the UK and the usually rabid commentators underneath their articles are generally pro Ukraine. Presumably they feel they own this war after giving it government approved status so early on.
And the reality is that Ukraine is an issue of genuine cross party support, on which the various parties have broad agreement. It's Farage's closeness to trump that marks him out, and should be used to expose and embarrass him in the view of voters. The right wing media have an 'interesting' tight-rope to walk between trump-loving conservatism, and some of the unassailable facts. Will the Mail repeat its own inglorious past and become a parrot for a proto-fascist in the form of Trump and the Maga-b@stards? They will do if they follow them on their current trajectory...
I haven't seen any Farage or Reform responses to the latest pro-Russia craziness from the Orange Toddler.
He's been very quiet hasn't he. He's now emerged from whichever rock he's been under to state that we shouldn't take anything Trump says literally. I suppose thats his diplomatic toadying way of saying that Trump is talking complete bollox, as ever
Ed Davey probably summed it up best...
As ever, he made those defensive comments from...Washington.
always worth remembering Russian agents killing people in the UK, at least you know Farage is happy for this to happen.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-64742249
It's a ****ing sad day when Ed Davey is looking like the wise political statesman....