MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
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It's not. You risk mountain rescue members every single time you head to the hills. STOP IT! You are selfish people!
This is a mountain bike forum. Sometimes things go wrong and we hurt ourselves. Others would say we should not have been there in the first place particularly if its cheeky footpath or little ramp someone has built in the woods. So those people should not be helped?
I paddle a canoe and kayak, I go out in challenging conditions. Others would say I should not be there in the first place. So I should not be helped?
Yes the chaps were idiots for breaking the rules and have bee fined accordingly and perhaps the fine should have been bigger.
But honestly where are you drawing the line? I'm interested to know what risks are acceptable to people and what isn't? Is it just a question of legality? If you are doing something illegal you don't deserve help (or should pay for it)? So riding on a footpath and falling off you pay for the Ambulance but its a bridleway you don't.
This thread confirms my long held view that philosophy and particularly logic should be taught as part of the GCSE curriculum.
It’s very simple – THEY SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN THERE
True. But I would argue that they shouldn't have been there regardless of covid restrictions.
shouldn't even begin advanced concepts like that though until they've got Rule 1 covered.This thread confirms my long held view that philosophy and particularly logic should be taught as part of the GCSE curriculum.
STOP IT! You are selfish people!
Is following the covid restrictions being selfish now?
True. But I would argue that they shouldn’t have been there regardless of covid restrictions.
Harsh but people from Liverpool are humans too!
I never fail to be impressed by the level of vitriol aimed at folk who have to call out the MRT who fail to meet with some “standard of preparedness”deemed acceptable by the internet.
Yep, especially as MRT absolutely love their job. If no one got in trouble they'd be quite dissapointed. For the older ones, it's probably their entire social life.
I was spending a winter in Glen Coe years ago and a friend, who was a local guide, was asked to join Lochaber MRT, he was over the moon - it's the outdoor equivalent of getting a knighthood.
shouldn’t even begin advanced concepts like that though until they’ve got Rule 1 covered.
Google Kant's categorical imperative.
I reckon it's close enough.
This has taken a bit of thinking through for me. I am someone lucky enough to have proper mountains (Cairngorms) in my Scottish local authority with sufficient experience and equipment who would currently be having the winter of his life winter walking and mountaineering, camping or snowholing at altitude. But I'm not because the way I interpret the lockdown rules means I should not be driving the 30mins to the walk in point as I can exercise in solitude from my door and whilst I'm unaware of anything along the line of 'no gnar' specifically in the rules it seems pretty obvious it's a sensible thing to avoid.
Even so, whilst I obviously can criticise the walkers for being in the Lakes when they should not have been I was struggling to blame them for the accident. Then I thought about it some more.....
The obvious bit.....the reason for no travel is to stop the transmission of covid between areas or taking it into area that don't current have it. With new variants this is even more important. This has nothing to do with their reason for travel, calling the MRT or the accident to the MRT member. The level of bellendery remains the same as if they had driven 100 miles each to meet up and have a game of tiddlywinks.
The extra covid spreading risk and possible extra work for the NHS bit......Doing something a bit gnar increasing the chance of someone having to come into close contact with you to intimately help you - obviously massively increase the risk of passing on comparison to say buying a tank of fuel.It also gets the helps to leave their personal at home isolation - something they are trying to avoid. And when you break yourself the NHS are going to have to mop you up and they don't need that. I have to call myself out here and declare myself a hypocrite - I have massively dialed down my 'adventure' but I am not living a life of avoidable risk. I could be just shuffling around the block in my slippers to get my exercise. I suspect most here could reduce their risk further and still get adequate exercise and fresh air which is all we are really meant to be having.
The danger to the MRT member bit.....This still remains a bit grey for me. The injured MRT member would have been safe and warm at home drinking horlicks in front of Miss Marple if they had elected not to go and he'd got the shout. But if they had elected not to go any other year the cause and effect remain the same. I just can't put all the blame for the accident at the door of the covid breakers unless.......the MRT were operating in a slightly different way because of COVID. I don't think has been covered yet. Was the guy who fell someone who would normally have been called out to this type of problem or was he a stand in because of covid or lockdown? Were they undermanned? Were they extra tired because working on reduced numbers? Had he had as much training or mountain walking experience as a typical winter? Was there any other covid/lockdown reason that impacted and made his fall more likely? If so, for me, the balance of blame shifts markedly to the lockdown breakers.
Finally...the MRT bod isn't just injured....but he is injured and in hospital at a time of covid. Further strain on the NHS but also importantly an enhanced risk to him in making a recovery. Damaged and vulnerable, in need of close up intimate care is very definitely not where I'd want to be right now. Heal strong fella.
especially as MRT absolutely love their job. If no one got in trouble they’d be quite dissapointed. For the older ones, it’s probably their entire social life.
Yep. A friend of mine dropped his iPad from a hot air balloon over Dartmoor on a really inaccessible bit. Had a pretty good GPS position and the local rescue group went out three times looking for it as a training exercise, and did eventually find it.
A friend of mine dropped his iPad from a hot air balloon over Dartmoor on a really inaccessible bit. Had a pretty good GPS position and the local rescue group went out three times looking for it as a training exercise, and did eventually find it.
Is that an advert for MRT or Apple?
Yes I heard the MR are actually encouraging people to go out and have accidents because they love it so much.
Is that an advert for MRT or Apple?
Not apple. It broke
Not apple. It broke
Ah I was assuming they were using the "Find my phone" function
There's a social contract at play which is that if we all agree to abide by a few simple (yet painful) rules, we can get through this and we'll all be better off as a result. But these people are breaking that contract.
I think the moral point here is that, currently, a large proportion of the country are depressed, bored of lockdown and hating life. They hear a story about some entitled idiots who have just decided they're exempt from the rules. It's galling.
The story IMHO isn't "These pillocks put the MRT folks at risk due to selfishness", it's "These pillocks are egregiously breaking the rules the rest of us are sticking to, causing an emergency, and yet they're not the ones suffering the consequences".
The MRT aren't really the subject of our outraged sympathy, we are.
There’s a social contract at play which is that if we all agree to abide by a few simple (yet painful) rules, we can get through this and we’ll all be better off as a result. But these people are breaking that contract.
I think the moral point here is that, currently, a large proportion of the country are depressed, bored of lockdown and hating life. They hear a story about some entitled idiots who have just decided they’re exempt from the rules. It’s galling.
The story IMHO isn’t “These pillocks put the MRT folks at risk due to selfishness”, it’s “These pillocks are egregiously breaking the rules the rest of us are sticking to, causing an emergency, and yet they’re not the ones suffering the consequences”.
The MRT aren’t really the subject of our outraged sympathy, we are.
Very good post.
Not apple. It broke
Wasn't Drac's, then.
Excellent post from Convert up there.
This thread confirms my long held view that philosophy and particularly logic should be taught as part of the GCSE curriculum.
From your posts here Joe, it sounds like you're right in the middle of your GCSE's...
The MRT aren’t really the subject of our outraged sympathy, we are.
Sage words.
Though still sending healing vibes to the MRT dude, obvs.
In a house in Liverpool or Leicester, with ambulance parking outside? Or up a mountain in freezing conditions in the dark. needing the MRT to attend to lift them off?
Which one’s likely to create more hazard for the rescuers? Which one is specifically against regs right now, at this time? Which one has led to life-changing injuries to one of the volunteers rescuers after they fell 150ft?
Its a headline story, but you won't have to search too hard to find stories of ambulances or fire-engines crashing on their way to a 999. Sometimes with catastrophic consequences. Fortunately MRT serious injuries are rare, but it would be difficult to say that a cyclist (in non-covid times) on a cheeky trail is any less culpable for the harm that comes to his rescuers than a camper with chest pains in covid times.
it would be difficult to say that a cyclist (in non-covid times) on a cheeky trail is any less culpable for the harm that comes to his rescuers than a camper with chest pains in covid times.
I wouldn't find it difficult to say that. Honestly.
The MRT aren’t really the subject of our outraged sympathy, we are.
I really don't get why anyone is outraged, someone broke a rule and someone else broke a leg doing something they love.
No one died and everyone lived happily ever after.
No one died and everyone lived happily ever after.
No they didnt the MRT guy has life changing injuries - what dont you understand about that ?
No they didnt the MRT guy has life changing injuries – what dont you understand about that ?
He might still be happy....
Life-changing spinal and facial injuries apparently, so not that happily ever after.
And he is in a plague ridden hospital
Where he might catch covid, and as he isnt that young anymore might get very ill, could lose his life, or suffer long covid and never be able to join mrt again
Because 2 guys thought they would be fine, and not need rescuing, till they werent and needed outside assistance, during a pandemic with a chance of giving or catching covid greatly increased by them not obeying the lockdown rules.
Everything would have been ok if they hadnt called 999. No one would have known where they were, whst they were doing, they could have had their life affirming mini adventure, got home, posted it on bookface and been legends.
I personally think what they were doing was less than sensible, but people have different values when it comes to risks.
Doing it now heightens the risk to others at a time when risk management should be high on the agenda
There may be a practical link between the injury to the MR team member and the pandemic. I'm fairly sure that not all the usual team members would be available to turn out, for various covid-linked reasons, and it's possible that the injured person would not normally have had the right experience for this shout, and did so only because he was was available and somebody needed help. Also, going out on the hills is like any other activity, if you don't do it because of lockdown you get rusty and unfit, which catches you out when you start pushing the limits on a cold dark night to rescue somebody.
There are some pretty ill-informed comments appearing on here. No-one with any real knowledge of the incident is condemning the original casualty for making a 999 call - and none should there be. There is absolutely no suggestion that the injured MRT member was in any way lacking in skills or experience - and nor should there be.
going out on the hills is like any other activity, if you don’t do it because of lockdown you get rusty and unfit, which catches you out when you start pushing the limits
This is true of both the rescuers and the rescued - and of all those who have been out without needing rescued.
The BBC article has been updated since last night
Rescuers were deployed to the scene, between Patterdale and Ambleside, after police were alerted at about 00:30 GMT on Saturday that one of the campers, a 47-year-old man with a "pre-existing" medical condition, was ill with chest pains.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-55978537
I'm having a real hard time not losing my shit at some of the flippant comments on here.
We've somehow stopoped as low as suggesting that in one instance they might have been a lesser able MRT member, and also that they might somehow still 'be happy' even though they've suffered a life changing spinal injury 😳
Have a ****ing word with yourselves, show some basic compassion and then get right in the ****ing sea.
singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/mountain-rescue-member-down/page/3/#post-
Well said I was trying too hard to be polite!
If anyone wants to do something to help the injured MRT member, follow this link https://www.mountainrescue.org.uk/support-us/
I’m having a real hard time not losing my shit at some of the flippant comments on here.
We’ve somehow stopoped as low as suggesting that in one instance they might have been a lesser able MRT member, and also that they might somehow still ‘be happy’ even though they’ve suffered a life changing spinal injury 😳
Have a * word with yourselves, show some basic compassion and then get right in the * sea.
Bang On! some of you lot really need to take a long hard look at yourselves. Disgraceful.
Theres certainly been some surprisingly crass and insensitive comments on this thread.
Wow.
No one died and everyone lived happily ever after.
That is either stupid, naïve or downright cruel. Not sure which.
Yep, it was an idiotic thing to say
This thread, like Covid, has revealed that a lot of people are just dicks
The BBC article has been updated since last night
Rescuers were deployed to the scene, between Patterdale and Ambleside, after police were alerted at about 00:30 GMT on Saturday that one of the campers, a 47-year-old man with a “pre-existing” medical condition, was ill with chest pains.
I can’t believe this hasn’t been picked up on more yet.
Does suggest this was an even stupider idea
Assuming the pre existing condition relates to the reason he was rescued, then yeah it makes it monumentally stupid to be out in such harsh weather during lockdown.
If ever there was a good point to end a thread, that it is.
All the best to you and your team Andy.