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I`m the wrong side of 50, been on Levothyroxine for under active thyroid for 10 years, Been gaining weight for 10 years as a result.
Worth reading up on the condition, your doctor may be treating a test and/or keeping you undermedicated. Take control.
Yep; any pointers you could share? It's a minefield.
His rather blunt suggestion to a recently slimmed down colleague, regarding her friend who receives the injection, that spending £100 on a set of trainers rather than £150 a month on injections being more beneficial does hold a lot of truth
This is as debatable as all the various diets being thrown into the mix here. I have been exercising continuously for years. Sometimes 5 days a week, sometimes 3, sometimes 7, always more than a couch potato. Across that time I have continuously gained weight, lost weight, gained, weight, then gained a bit more. At no point was exercise the cause of losing weight, it was always diet change. As a wise person once said, "You can't out run a bad diet" So giving a fatty some running shoes is going to do $h!t.
Back to the point of the OP. I am down to 12st 1lb from 13st 6, but have lost a lot of muscle. I started the injections at a time where my exercise dropped off and then with the increase in lethergy I stupidly and stubbornly refused to pick up the weights. This, combined with my reduced appetite have caused the muscle wastage. I have just lost my job so have a lot of free time, I am now committed to building back that muscle and lost strength over the coming months, and have no excuses not to do that.
My BMI is still 26 according to the calculator and I still have excess lard around my chest and belly. I am hoping to start seeing my weight go up a little but the BMI (or fat % on smart scales) continue to drop as I get some of that lost muscle back. So far the benefits have outweighed (pardon the pun) the bad on this injection journey but I am really kicking myself about the muscle loss, I really think they could do a better job of calling this out.
BMI is a flawed method of assessing lardiness. Better off with waist to height.
You can out cycle a bad diet on my big bike ride i was attempting to eat 4000 calories a day. I lost 10 kg. Its a bit extreme as an example mind you but i was eating significantly more than i usually do but still lost a significant amount of weight down lighter than i had been for 30 years
You can out cycle a bad diet on my big bike ride i was attempting to eat 4000 calories a day. I lost 10 kg. Its a bit extreme as an example mind you but i was eating significantly more than i usually do but still lost a significant amount of weight down lighter than i had been for 30 years
4000 is just getting started. I've always put on weight on bikepacking hols.
You can out cycle a bad diet on my big bike ride i was attempting to eat 4000 calories a day. I lost 10 kg. Its a bit extreme as an example mind you but i was eating significantly more than i usually do but still lost a significant amount of weight down lighter than i had been for 30 years
How much of the big ride was grinding out the miles vs HIIT hill climbs etc? Isn’t it current thinking that short bursts of HIIT are more beneficial for health and that long drawn out low intensity stuff like jogging/cycling don’t particularly contribute to weight loss.
Yes, you can out cycle a poor diet but you have to spend a lot of time in the saddle. Most people who have commitments like a job and family don't have enough time to devote to riding to be lucky enough to eat whatever they want and still lose weight.
Think it was 1.5g per kg of bodyweight, per day.
probably per kg lean body weight not total body weight. Lean bodyweight can be calculated from total weight as 0.65 x Ht(cm) - 59. I’m 179 cm so 1.5 g/kg is 86g of protein a day.
The loss of muscle is an issue, and strategies such as combination therapies that help to sustain or build muscle are being studied. Early days, but an anti-myostatin agent has prove successful in cancer cachexia (end stage cancer shows extreme weight loss).
As for heart health in the obese, unsurprisingly, their hearts are working rather hard as they carry excess weight around (presuming they move, which they do). They also have higher bone mineral density, which is another area of concern for this class.
Self control when you you could just stick a needle in yourself instead? That idea will never catch on.
GLP-1 is perhaps (like statins) a genuine wonder drug. Obesity is crippling lives and costing a fortune in otherwise preventable disease. it's has few side effects, is tolerable for most folks and it may even be, as a side effect, a treatment for liver disease, kidney disease, may have neuroprotective effects and protects against cardiovascular disease and stroke.
But yeah, will power...
The same as I was when I was 18, I’m 54 now. (I was 16 stone a few years ago) I sleep extremely well. My arthritis has all but gone, that to me is incredible. Just from quitting carbs and eating fatty red meat
I'm more or less the same shape as I was when I was 18, I'm 57. My jeans waist size hasn't changed. I've never been 16 stone, I sleep extremely well, never had arthritis. I eat carbs like a machine and I've never really eaten meat, red or otherwise.
Anecdote is not data
When calculating your recommended protein intake its best not to do so based on your current weight of course .. its where you want to be, and a little bit more just in case.
I totally agree with the comment of being able to out cycling a bad diet. To achieve weight loss you need to create a calorie deficit; burning more energy than you are putting in is the way, however some peoples metabolisms can take some kick starting. Another reminder is that some people over estimate the amount of calories they are burning. My wife will do an hour on the trainer, and afterwards state she has burned in excess of 700 calories ... and whilst she may have got out of breath at times, and sweated a bit, I am pretty sure she is burning little more than 300 at best.
Without getting too far off topic my point on the "buy em some running shoes" i still stick with. The majority of people will not lose weight as they dont have the time or inclination to do the extremes of exercise that would drive decent weight loss. They keep eating badly, and possibly more as they think they can after going for a 2 mile jog.
I am hoping the weight loss injections are teaching me that i can lose weight, and that it may reset my mind and body on what a "decent sized" meal looks like for the future. Once I come off the injections it is going to be a battle, I do realise this, but i am hoping that the before and after photos will give me strength to fight those food and booze cravings when they return.
Self control when you you could just stick a needle in yourself instead? That idea will never catch on.
This thread does expose a few dickheads. Why can't we just accept that losing weight is good for individuals and good for the NHS. There are lots of different ways to lose weight, some of these work for some people and some do not. If a person has the means to pay for medication to help, then why push back against that?
So many judgement, arrogant and intolerant experts on this thread.
Just catching up with some of this. As i say, I'm more conscious of eating enough now and because I don't eat much I'm trying to consume plenty of protein and fibre in what I do eat. I've been taking a daily vitamin supplement for a while and might look into the creatine that was mentioned earlier. I've have a gym membership but have been too embarrassed to return since the weight gain, but I've booked a PT session for next month that'll hopefully kick start that again as I used to enjoy going a couple of times a week especially when the weather isn't great for mtbing.
I'm not concerned about the speed with which I'm losing weight at the moment as I have a lot to lose and I do and always have done lots of exercise (except the period after the op when I put on a lot of this extra weight). I ride 4-5 times a week 100+ miles the problem I had was I ate and drank lots. I weighed myself this morning and I'm now 117kgs so that is just under 12kgs since I started (6-7kgs of that was in week 1 so probably a load of water weight). My goal is to get below 100kgs over the next 3 months which would be a very reasonable 1.5kgs per week. Obviously I'm thinking about what will happen once I get to the goal and eventually come off it, but I'm trying to be positive and hoping that some of the things I'm learning about portion size and eating better will stick, but who knows, maybe I'll be on it for life, that certainly beats being a fat old bastard with high blood pressure and a kebab away from heart disease.
You can out cycle a bad diet on my big bike ride i was attempting to eat 4000 calories a day. I lost 10 kg. Its a bit extreme as an example mind you but i was eating significantly more than i usually do but still lost a significant amount of weight down lighter than i had been for 30 years
How much of the big ride was grinding out the miles vs HIIT hill climbs etc? Isn’t it current thinking that short bursts of HIIT are more beneficial for health and that long drawn out low intensity stuff like jogging/cycling don’t particularly contribute to weight loss.
It was a long low i intensity pootle. 4 months plus riding 6 hrs a day six days a weej
Self control when you you could just stick a needle in yourself instead? That idea will never catch on.
Just wait until the orals arrive. Orfoglipron already shown good results in Ph3. Oral semaglutide isn’t so great as most of it is not absorbed. But orals are coming. I think that incretin pharmacology is nothing short of remarkable.
And like nickc, I’ve never been heavier than 76kg in my life, am about the same weight as when I married over 30 years ago, eat a mixed diet and lots of carbs. I also cycle a lot now, but didn’t due to Long Covid for two years (weight went from muscle in legs to adipose on tummy, and back again).
Maybe I have more GLP1 receptors, or they are more receptive to satiety signalling? I view GLP1/GIP supplementation as restoring homeostasis. If it helps stop addictive gambling, sleep apnoea, crisp cravings (never had food cravings, personally) and who knows what else, all good.
The thing about these drugs suppressing other addictive urges is fascinating.
Totally agree they could end up as widespread as statins, as a harm reduction/preventative measure.
The piecemeal nature of health funding appears to be a barrier to this for now though, since very few people seem able to get them prescribed on the NHS? I presume that's a funding thing rather than a shortage thing anyway.
crisp cravings
If they do a version that just targets this, then I'm in.
BIL has been thinking of getting rid of his parents wedding dinner service circa 1940 as its just been sitting in a box since his father died. In the end he just thought stuff it we might as well use it for every day use. He's now significantly reduced portion sizes instead of using the bin lids we tend to get these days for dinner plates.
The same as I was when I was 18, I’m 54 now. (I was 16 stone a few years ago) I sleep extremely well. My arthritis has all but gone, that to me is incredible. Just from quitting carbs and eating fatty red meat
I'm more or less the same shape as I was when I was 18, I'm 57. My jeans waist size hasn't changed. I've never been 16 stone, I sleep extremely well, never had arthritis. I eat carbs like a machine and I've never really eaten meat, red or otherwise.
Anecdote is not data
Nothing wrong with anecdotes as long as they are honest.
Accurate data in regards to nutrition and exercise is very hard to correlate due to the non ability to carry out strictly controlled studies on human participants.
You can out cycle a bad diet on my big bike ride i was attempting to eat 4000 calories a day. I lost 10 kg. Its a bit extreme as an example mind you but i was eating significantly more than i usually do but still lost a significant amount of weight down lighter than i had been for 30 years
How much of the big ride was grinding out the miles vs HIIT hill climbs etc? Isn’t it current thinking that short bursts of HIIT are more beneficial for health and that long drawn out low intensity stuff like jogging/cycling don’t particularly contribute to weight loss.
It was a long low i intensity pootle. 4 months plus riding 6 hrs a day six days a weej
So a completely unrealistic amount of exercise for 99% of people.
Oh absolutely but it shows that activity plays a huge part.
Same as when i retired i gained weight despite not changing my diet as my activity decreased.
You cannot gain weight without a calorie surplus. You cannot lose weight without a calorie deficit
One potential side effect I've had is developing PET (Patulous Eustachian Tube), as one of the possible causes is rapid weight loss. Curious if anyone else on jabs has this? It's where the Eustachian tube stays open (so you hear yourself breathing and your voice sounds distorted to you), mine comes and goes, annoyingly talking triggers it quite often (you then also can't really judge how loud you're talking). I started experiencing it 2-3 months ago and thought I just had water trapped in my ear initially. About to try saline drips to see if that helps.
You cannot gain weight without a calorie surplus. You cannot lose weight without a calorie deficit
There has been some research* with gut biome and even "poo" implants that appear to yield results (sometimes drastic) where the calorie intake doesn't change. Now that doesn't change your above statement, but it does show that there are factors beyond what we can control in terms of calorie intake and what we burn through activity that effects the equation. Irrc the laws of thermodynamics describe a "closed system" which does not describe the human digestive system.
*which I haven't delved into very much and I probably wouldn't understand it if I did.
Msp
Those sorts of factors are very much fringe effects. On a rough back of the fag packet calculated to lose 10kg over that time is only a couple of hundred calorie deficit it a day
Most folk who struggle to lose weight vastly underestimate the amount they eat
Most folk also overestimate how many calories exercise uses
Tomorrow will be my last does of the 2.5mg pen. I have a 5mg pen that I'm due to start the following week.
I'm wondering if I really need to up the dose as it's been going really well and certainly don't feel like it's working any less than it did from the first dose. Those that have been on it for a while what would you recommend, as I'm also thinking with the 4x 5mg pen I could continue dosing at 2.5mg and make it last 8 weeks.
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Those that have been on it for a while what would you recommend
The only person who should be offering this advice is the doctor who prescribed it.
Those that have been on it for a while what would you recommend, as I'm also thinking with the 4x 5mg pen I could continue dosing at 2.5mg and make it last 8 weeks.
That's what I did. Roughly speaking, I recall doing 2.5 for two months. 5 for one month. 7.5 two months, 10 for two, 12.5 for about three months then taper down back to my current 2.5.
You can forget about getting advice from the prescribing doctor, sadly. Neither they nor your own GP have the time for that sort of thing. That itself is an issue, because standard advice from the manufacturer is up the dose every month and most doctors would likely advise sticking with that if asked. Many people will feel rotten doing that.
Stick with the lowest dose you feel is working for you as long as you can.
Oh absolutely but it shows that activity plays a huge part.
Same as when i retired i gained weight despite not changing my diet as my activity decreased.
You cannot gain weight without a calorie surplus. You cannot lose weight without a calorie deficit
The release of insulin following the consumption of carbohydrates is what causes weight gain. The same mass of carbs compared to mass of fat/protein will release significantly different amounts of insulin. The more insulin released the more fat will be stored. Those who graze feed often with carbs will gain the most weight. Those who consume little or no carbs and eat once or twice a day will gain the least.
I'm wondering if I really need to up the dose as it's been going really well and certainly don't feel like it's working any less than it did from the first dose
Good question, I just followed the standard advice of slowly increasing my dosage until I hit the 15mg (I didn't really have any side effects so didn't need to stick or reduce the dose to try and alleviate them). Looking back though I don't think past 7.5mg it had anymore of an effect on me in terms of appetite suppression so I probably could (should?) have stopped upping my dose then.
I'm in the process now of reducing my dose (next order is 10mg) to try and find a dose whereby I don't feel the need to snack etc. but still want to eat 2 or 3 decent sized meals a day (as right now I'm definitely not eating enough and will be losing lean muscle mass, which isn't great as I'm trying to get fitter through cycling). I figure I'll stick there for a few months whilst trying to sort my diet out and then hopefully come off it completely.
One thing that worries me is if I do stop (I sound like an addict now...) but then find myself putting weight back on can I restart or do I need to wait for my BMI to hit 30 again? I should probably ask the online pharmacy clinician...
There's an interesting Docu/soap/whatever on Netflix about The Biggest Loser show and it shows how many of the contestants have struggled after the show and most are the same size as pre-show despite losing sometimes 240lb of weight at the time and being shown time and time again how to do it.
I do wonder how many of 'you' will go straight back up to the overweight as soon as stopping the medication.
I'm not preaching BTW, i've got 3-4st to drop myself, but i'm not sure this is the answer i want.
I'm not preaching BTW, i've got 3-4st to drop myself, but i'm not sure this is the answer i want.
The thing is @weeksy no matter how you lose the weight you (not you personally) will put it back on if you go back to the same eating routine you had before you lost it. The injections are a much more achievable way of losing weight for me as I dont have any cravings to fight, but i am under no illusions that once I stop, something will have to change with my diet. I am hoping that getting back to a weight i haven't been at for 20 years will spur me to not undo it all. It will be tough though.
I'm not preaching BTW, i've got 3-4st to drop myself, but i'm not sure this is the answer i want.
The thing is @weeksy no matter how you lose the weight you (not you personally) will put it back on if you go back to the same eating routine you had before you lost it. The injections are a much more achievable way of losing weight for me as I dont have any cravings to fight, but i am under no illusions that once I stop, something will have to change with my diet. I am hoping that getting back to a weight i haven't been at for 20 years will spur me to not undo it all. It will be tough though.
Granted on the first bit, but i guess the point was, if you lose it in a controlled manner using diet/exercise you're likely more prepared for the 'after' side of things as it's less of an artifical way of losing it, so on the drugs you're not 'learning' in terms of both the process and the urges, but if you're doing it the cold hard way, you're likely learning the lessons better ?
but if you're doing it the cold hard way, you're likely learning the lessons better ?
Plenty of people do it the hard way, then slip back into old habits gradually and before you know it you're 10-12 kgs heavier than you want to be...
I'm considering a short course just to kick start myself back into some semblance of shape. Need to do more research if that's viable or not.
but if you're doing it the cold hard way, you're likely learning the lessons better ?
I agree with you to a point. I did it the cold hard way last year when I was even heavier than when I started on the injections. I never managed to get back to a point where I was in good shape but I did shed over 1st. It was really hard going though, and despite having all the literature and knowing how to lose the weight and keep the weight off I slowly put a lot of it back on across the year.
I know this is a little extreme but bear with me. Like there are people out there who will succumb to gambling, drug use, or other addictions quite easily and struggle massively to quit, I think the same can be said for food and drink. There are people who just have that inherent ability to ignore the beer and the Donar kebab (or those annoying types who can have 1 beer, and a chicken kebab) and then there are those who have one beer and crave another and another and fall face first into a yummy curry at 10.30PM. I unfortunately fall into the latter of those catagories. If I had tried drugs I would probably be dead by now (Thanks for the heads up Zammo) So, my journey once the injections drop off will be an interesting one. Fingers crossed I will enjoy the new lightweight version of me so much that I won't want to ruin it.
Oh absolutely but it shows that activity plays a huge part.
Up to a point. If you'd have carried on with your "bike around the world" adventure, your body would've adapted and the weight loss would've plateaued, and you may have even started to gain again.
Late last week I was sent an email with the new price of Mounjaro. I think I will be coming off it in a couple of months based on this new price. Need to get cracking on the coping methods pre-injections
I dont think youre learning the habit any better the ' old way', else thered be a lot more people retaining those habits. And that's not the case. If using drugs,can artificially teach you a new habit and reinforce it for 6 months , thats effective
My experience with Wegovy turned rough after my gallbladder surgery. I later found out that the FDA only added gallbladder warnings in 2022, years after people reported issues. The Ozempic lawsuit breakdown lists that timeline and the label changes - December 2017, March 2022, and again in 2024. That's the kind of stuff I wish doctors had mentioned before prescribing it as a "safe" appetite suppressant
I think the gallbladder stuff is related to fast weightloss so is not directly associated to the drugs themselves but more the outcome of using the drugs??? So if you took a slower approach and took lower doses for longer, the liklihood of gallbladder issues is reduced?
The above is not a statement, more of a question.
I wasn't aware of the gall bladder stuff. Thanks for the heads up. I recently found out I have developed gall stones when I had a scan for a broken back. I was puzzled as to how I could have developed them (basically zero cholesterol levels my whole life due to a quirk of genetic blood chemistry). Now I've got a hint about them. No issues or symptoms arising from the gall stones, so just wait and watch there. I'm about 10 months in on Mounjaro and keeping at a dose that doesn't suppress my appetite but does punish me for overeating on the idea of a bit of aversion therapy to reinforce being able to eat less while also getting the health benefits re diabetes, blood pressure, and liver function (all of which are why I'm really on the drugs). Saying that, I've lost about 15% of my body weight, which does help with overall health.
What dose are you on now? Only 7 weeks in and was planning on staying at 5 for a while - 7.5 is ruinously more expensive without swapping supplier every 4 weeks. I plan to see if I can sustain between .5 and 1kg loss weekly. Not really upped exercise yet, merely changing diet has been the biggest difference.
10mg. 1kg loss a week is a huge amount over a long time. Having read up on the gall stones thing, mebbes not a great idea to lose that fast over a sustained period of time.
0.5-1kg is referred to on an NHS site as slow and steady though? I don't know if the body gets used to the drug so I'd need to increase dose to maintain level of appetite suppression. Definitely would not want more - am finding that massively reduced sugar intake is working for me. Don't understand why you would want to take the drugs and continue with a poor diet, though I do know someone with this approach.
am finding that massively reduced sugar intake is working for me.
Ta daaaaa!
Cutting carbs/sugar is 99% it. Get into ketosis as much as possible and watch the fat do one!