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She's leaving home by the beatles
I cant listen to that song.... 😪
I'm starting to wean off it now (after 6 months on), I'm not really expecting to completely stop but will hopefully find a low dose I get a bit of an appetite back but still easily controllable. Right now I'm slipping back into bad habits in terms of what I eat (mostly ready meals) as I don't really feel hungry so eat something small but high calorie just to make sure I have energy for bike rides. I did a 30 mile evening ride on Wednesday with just a small breakfast and a protein yoghurt when I got home, I know I can't sustain that (nor do I want to).
I'm hoping as I wean off it I'll start eating bigger but healthier meals again, would still recommend it to anyone struggling to lose weight though but for sure you can't just treat it like a magic pill and not change anything else with your lifestyle.
Right now I'm slipping back into bad habits in terms of what I eat (mostly ready meals)
Ultra processed anti nutrient laden crap full of seed oils and unpronounceable chemicals.
Keep it simple; fatty red meat from ruminant animals, eggs, salt and water is what the body requires for optimum health.
Carbs (sugars) are not needed at all, ever. Consuming carbs will cause insulin spikes (and will trigger fat storing). The more often you eat carbs the more spikes, the more fat storing occurs. Grazing on small amounts of carbs especially those laden with ultra processed junk is just asking for trouble
One to two meals a day is a good way to go. Intermittent fasting is advantageous. 16/8 is a reliable ratio although the longer you fast the better the results.
This changes the landscape somewhat: Cost of weight loss drug Mounjaro may rise significantly - BBC News
Keep it simple; fatty red meat from ruminant animals, eggs, salt and water is what the body requires for optimum health.
Carbs (sugars) are not needed at all, ever.
Some of what you say is good/correct advice but this is total BS...
Keep it simple; fatty red meat from ruminant animals, eggs, salt and water is what the body requires for optimum health.
Carbs (sugars) are not needed at all, ever.
Some of what you say is good/correct advice but this is total BS...
Fuzzy. I know it sounds absolutely bat shit I agree. However I don’t say this stuff flippantly at all. I’ve been interested in nutrition science for years. Have looked into and tried various ways of eating with varying results. Keto worked really well for me apart from my arthritis got worse, turns out that was from eating leafy greens, nuts and berries which are full of oxalates. Getting deeper into the weeds I came across carnivore. 18 months into that way of eating my arthritis has all but gone. I feel really fit and healthy, brain fog gone, sleeping like a baby, never get any indigestion or wind.
If you suffer from inflammation or have weight issues or even depression it is definitely worth looking into to.
The body needs fuel, it gets that from carbohydrates (in whatever form it can finbd them).
When it needs energy, it takes carbs first (the ones that are available already), then starts breaking down long term storage (hence the 'bonk'), than breaks down fats, then protein.
Your body _needs_ carbs. It does not need excess carbs, but some excess is necessary. I'm not a dietician, but I do know that the body is designed to work with all types of food, not just meat. If we were carnivores from the start, we'd have evolved to have different teeth.
The body needs fuel, it gets that from carbohydrates (in whatever form it can finbd them).
When it needs energy, it takes carbs first (the ones that are available already), then starts breaking down long term storage (hence the 'bonk'), than breaks down fats, then protein.
Your body _needs_ carbs. It does not need excess carbs, but some excess is necessary. I'm not a dietician, but I do know that the body is designed to work with all types of food, not just meat. If we were carnivores from the start, we'd have evolved to have different teeth.
Willard, that is what we are led to believe. However it is not true. Honestly, I’m not trying to hoodwink anyone or sell anything or attempting to subvert or harm. It’s just what I have discovered by spending a lot of time reading, listening, watching and talking directly to people be it those with multiple masters degrees in nutrition science, sports nutrition and phlebotomy or those who have successfully improved their quality of life by going carnivore.
If you are interested Google Stephen Thomas or Richard Smith. These are both British guys with backgrounds in sport and fitness, both with amazing journeys of transformation and discovery. I mention these two as they aren’t American! American nutritionists often seem over zealous and a bit snake oil salesman even if what they say is spot on. Stephen and Richard are just normal blokes who could quite easily be mountain bikers, roadies etc.
Well, that beats my BSc in Biochemistry. And to think, I spent four years learning things like the Krebs TCA cycle and how cells process energy.... Sorry, I am still short of coffee today, but the fact remains, humans have evolved to eat everything*, not just meat.
But... If doing what you do works for _you_ do it. I'm not a nutritionist, or an influencer, or even a biochemist any more (and I liked immunology and radiobiology better than cell biochemistry anyway), so do what works for you to achieve your goals.
Well, that beats my BSc in Biochemistry. And to think, I spent four years learning things like the Krebs TCA cycle and how cells process energy.... Sorry, I am still short of coffee today, but the fact remains, humans have evolved to eat everything*, not just meat.
But... If doing what you do works for _you_ do it. I'm not a nutritionist, or an influencer, or even a biochemist any more (and I liked immunology and radiobiology better than cell biochemistry anyway), so do what works for you to achieve your goals.
Just because humans can eat everything* doesn’t mean they should!
I hear you though, everyone is on their own journey and should do what they believe is best. However it is frustrating that there is so much misinformation around including from those in the mainstream medical world such as the NHS. Just look at any hospital menu to see what they consider to be healthy, nutritious ‘food’. No wonder people have to resort to taking fat loss drugs to lose weight.
But where are your amino acids, vitamins and nutrients required for good (and diverse) gut health coming from? No way you're getting all you need for those in your short list of items needed for "optimal health". If you're saying everything else you need can come from supplements or a more diverse diet then OK but that makes your point a bit moot doesn't it?
What about scurvy? Seriously
to go back to the orginal point. I read recently that these injections ( like all "diets") have a rebound effect ie when you stop the jabs you regain the weight unless you have adopted a more healthy approach to eating in the meantime. I am highly cynical about them anyway and see them as a way for drug companies to make money not as a health aid as many folk will end up on these injections for life
multiple masters degrees in nutrition science, sports nutrition and phlebotomy or those who have successfully improved their quality of life by going carnivore.
Woowoo and irrelevant you mean.
What about scurvy? Seriously
There is vitamin C in red meat. If no carbs are consumed the amount of Vit C is more than adequate to be very healthy indeed. There are many, many carnivores that have been eating this way for years with no signs of scurvy.
Not totally true. Candian trappers died of scurvy in the winter because rabbit meat (their main/only source of food in the winter) contains no vitamin C. Same with sailors that had salted meats and nothing else.
I think you will also find that a lot of other animals can synthesis Vit C themselves from other amino acids, something that humans (and guinea pigs) cannot.
Like I said, you do you. I'll stick with eating a balanced diet.
to go back to the orginal point. I read recently that these injections ( like all "diets") have a rebound effect ie when you stop the jabs you regain the weight unless you have adopted a more healthy approach to eating in the meantime. I am highly cynical about them anyway and see them as a way for drug companies to make money not as a health aid as many folk will end up on these injections for life
That shouldn't be news to anyone that's taking them though, the drug companies have never claimed they're a permanent 'cure' for obesity and how they work is clearly and extensively documented. If someone believes the appetite suppressing effect persists once they stop the injections they've either been misled or have misunderstood how they work.
You're right in that they're not a simple fix and drug companies will be making billions from them as likely only a minority of people will change their lifestyle enough to never need to use them again once they reach their weight goal. Unless some terrible long-term side effect is discovered though I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, obesity has a lot of associated health issues. Sure, a large number of people living unhealthy lifestyles but taking weight-loss jabs isn't great either but it's got to be better than them also being obese.
I'd say I'm half-way between, I'm doing a lot more exercise now so have changed my lifestyle significantly as a result of starting weight loss jabs. I do still suck at the eating healthily part though (although I do generally eat a bit better, not just less of the crap stuff). I'm hoping as I reduce my dosage and get more appetite back my motivation to spend time preparing food goes up a bit (I'm lazy anyway so spending time preparing a healthy meal that I don't really want to eat isn't something I want to do). That might even mean I can come off it completely but I'm expecting I'll probably end up on a low dose for years and still eating not particularly healthily...
Not totally true. Candian trappers died of scurvy in the winter because rabbit meat (their main/only source of food in the winter) contains no vitamin C. Same with sailors that had salted meats and nothing else.
I think you will also find that a lot of other animals can synthesis Vit C themselves from other amino acids, something that humans (and guinea pigs) cannot.
Like I said, you do you. I'll stick with eating a balanced diet.
Im not surprised they got scurvy as Rabbit is a very lean meat. The sailors were probably eating dry crackers and drinking rum too which aren’t exactly nutrient dense.
However I should have said fatty red meat which does contain all the required nutrients for a healthy existence. Look at the Inuit people. They live and thrive on seal, whale and fish.
Google suggests they eat kelp?
However I should have said fatty red meat which does contain all the required nutrients for a healthy existence.
No it does not. Look I get you are evangelical about this but please - learn some things. vit C?
However I should have said fatty red meat which does contain all the required nutrients for a healthy existence.
No it does not. Look I get you are evangelical about this but please - learn some things. vit C?
Okay TJ, if you say so. Seeing as you know everything I must be wrong, obviously. Red meat doesn’t contain vitamin C and I have scurvy, as do all other people practicing a carnivore way of eating of which there are a lot.
I covered with a bariatric surgeon recently, and the conversation of these injections came up. His thought was that now Mounjaro is set to triple in price - the competition will no doubt do so too - there will be a lot of people priced out from privately buying them. His thoughts are that there will be an even bigger incentive for surgery once the weight goes on from these people.
His rather blunt suggestion to a recently slimmed down colleague, regarding her friend who receives the injection, that spending £100 on a set of trainers rather than £150 a month on injections being more beneficial does hold a lot of truth.
"Look at the Inuit people. They live and thrive on seal, whale and fish"
A quick google suggests there is little vit c in red meat and that "Most of the Vitamin C in a carnivore diet comes from organ meats like spleen, thymus, and lung, or from seafood"
Okay TJ, if you say so. Seeing as you know everything I must be wrong, obviously. Red meat doesn’t contain vitamin C and I have scurvy, as do all other people practicing a carnivore way of eating of which there are a lot.
yes you are wrong and almost certainly deficient in a whole range of vitamins, and other micro nutrients. Its also an incredibly unhealthy lifestyle and one our bodies are not adapted for
I don't know everything but this is very basic stuff
Back on track, this price rise is outrageous - fortunately not passed onto the NHS, but wow. There will be people getting into major debt to fund the treatment.
I`m the wrong side of 50, been on Levothyroxine for under active thyroid for 10 years, Been gaining weight for 10 years as a result.
Ive tried everything, and even on 1400 calories a day cannot lose weight the conventional way.
Health was getting worse, pre diabetes became T2 diabetes, Developed Non Alchohol retated Fatty Liver disease and elevated cholesterol (Both as side effects of the other medications) for which they wanted to put me on statins.
My BMI was 30.5 with T2D and ive been trying for a year to get Ozempic on the NHS.
I did a lot of research into it beforehand and in april started on a private prescription of Mounjaro.
January myself and the mrs had started eating cleaner with less processed foods etc but wasnt really losing anything consistently, it was very up and down.
Since January, I am now down 12.5 KG, BMI is down to 27, body fat down massively, lost 4" in waist size, can fit into a suit Ive not been in for 7 years etc.
But the real benefit is in health, bloods results show a reduction of HBA1c from 47 to 37, Cholesterol down from 6.5 to 5, liver function returning to normal etc and thats from Jan - June.
Some people call it cheating, but you wouldnt say the same about BP meds or Statins for reducing risk of heart disease or stroke, and Obesety / T2 Diabetes is a massive problem.
Its not about being lazy, its about a genuine improvement of health for many people, myself included.
GLP1 isnt an "easy" option either, you do have to change a lot, its expensive.
But it has also been shown to reset your bodies baseline, which diets dont do.
So I am hoping that at the end of it my new baseline will be somewhere around 65kg / 20% body fat and with a sensible taper off and sustainable changes to eating habits I`ll maintain somewhere around that weight, rather than nearly 90KG as I was at the start of the year.
Okay TJ, if you say so. Seeing as you know everything I must be wrong, obviously. Red meat doesn’t contain vitamin C and I have scurvy, as do all other people practicing a carnivore way of eating of which there are a lot.
yes you are wrong and almost certainly deficient in a whole range of vitamins, and other micro nutrients. Its also an incredibly unhealthy lifestyle and one our bodies are not adapted for
I don't know everything but this is very basic stuff
Well the recent blood panel I had done didn’t mention any deficiencies. My weight/height ratio is very healthy. My blood pressure is excellent. 6ft tall, 11 stone 8lbs, 30” waist. The same as I was when I was 18, I’m 54 now. (I was 16 stone a few years ago) I sleep extremely well. My arthritis has all but gone, that to me is incredible. Just from quitting carbs and eating fatty red meat (beef and lamb mostly), eggs, butter, salt, a tiny bit of fermented sauerkraut as a condiment and drinking apple cider vinegar in sparkling water for the microbial benefits. I’ll take it.
That sounds remarkable. Can you share some before and after pics to validate (apologies if coming across suspicious, but this is STW where the boundary between truth & fiction is not often clear)
Sounds remarkable, but far from the only example. Dave Macleod is a very good climber, qualified nutritionist and there's some interesting stuff on his YouTube channel etc. He follows a similar diet
Back on track, this price rise is outrageous - fortunately not passed onto the NHS, but wow. There will be people getting into major debt to fund the treatment.
I'm just due to buy my next dose and there seems to be problems with stock. I suspect people will be stock pilling doses before the price increase. I'm planning to buy one more and then quit as I can't justify £300+ a month for it. I'll see if I can continue losing weight without it and if not I might try one of the cheaper semaglutides.
nutritionist is a meaningless label. anyone can call themselves a nutritionist and the "qualifications" vary from reasonable to complete nonsensse
I`m the wrong side of 50, been on Levothyroxine for under active thyroid for 10 years, Been gaining weight for 10 years as a result.
Worth reading up on the condition, your doctor may be treating a test and/or keeping you undermedicated. Take control.
This isn't a thread on what diet you're religiously wedded to, start another if you want to go on about a caveman diet (maybe also post what the life expectancy and rate of malnutrition was back then to).
As for the price rise, yeah that's a bit annoying and shit for people that won't be able to carry on with it privately. I will be for now (and currently I still think it would be pretty much cost neutral with what I was previously spending on food vs what I am now).
This isn't a thread on what diet you're religiously wedded to, start another if you want to go on about a caveman diet (maybe also post what the life expectancy and rate of malnutrition was back then to).
As for the price rise, yeah that's a bit annoying and shit for people that won't be able to carry on with it privately. I will be for now (and currently I still think it would be pretty much cost neutral with what I was previously spending on food vs what I am now).
Steak and eggs have gone up in price as well. However they are significantly less costly than scientist made drugs that contain god knows what and have no long term testing.
Simplest and most natural way of losing visceral body fat whilst not diminishing muscle mass is to cut carb/sugar intake and UPF’s especially seed oils.
Bit shit to hear about the price rises as if it does rise that much I'm pretty sure I couldn't afford that. I've just taken my 3rd shot of the 2.5mg so had to order the next lot. I ordered the 4 x 5mg pen but afterwards I wondered if I should have just stuck with the 2.5mg as it's all going really well so far. I've lost nearly 12kgs in the 18 days since my first shot, the bulk of that was in week 1 and now it's coming off more steadily. I'm doing a bit better at making sure I eat enough now too whereas in the first week I was barely eating as I just wasn't thinking about food at all. I'm now using Myfitnesspal to ensure I get enough calories rather than making sure I don't eat too many. I've started to notice a bit of difference in my body which is a good feeling, but the best bit is I'm noticing the difference on the bike not having to pedal quite so much bulk up the hills.
At some point I'm going to try and work out how much I'm saving by not popping to the shop and buying beer and snacks and maybe I can then justify the expense once the price rises
I've lost nearly 12kgs in the 18 days since my first shot, the bulk of that was in week 1
Holy shit. That’s far too fast.
Self control when you you could just stick a needle in yourself instead? That idea will never catch on.
"When you stop taking weight loss medications, you may experience weight regain, increased appetite, and changes in metabolic function, often leading to a return to previous eating habits."
Good one big pharma. Over a fkn barrel eh?
This is why support with lifestyle changes are always pushed by experts as a necessary accompaniment/follow-up.
My company provides these, and I hpe we'll see an increase in demand rather than a decrease - because people are relying solely on the jabs.
Perhaps I'm being naive though.
Something important which people on here appear to be missing when taking these injections is the need to still ensure your eating/drinking/exercising healthily. You will need to be taking in the correct vitamins/nutrients and especially protein and exercise.
Yes your excess fat may fall off, but you want to avoid muscle falling off too. Sudden weight loss can weaken the heart muscle too, I`d imagine vast majority of those obese people who these injections are for will not be used to regularly exercising to the point of keeping their hearts strong and healthy.
Crash diets are known high risk for triggering irregular heart beats and increasing clot risks leading to strokes etc.
The big problem with these injections is that people do not know about these risks - or if they do they ignore them. Plus bought privately they are receiving no monitoring for extreme weight loss as what has been identified above.
Please be safe and be sensible people.
I was speaking to an NHS dietician at the weekend, and she was saying larger people on these drugs need to be consuming a huge amount of protein to counter muscle loss as a result of their calorie deficit.
Which is obviously challenging when their appetite is massively decreased anyway.
Think it was 1.5g per kg of bodyweight, per day.
Curious whether those of you getting the jabs privately are receiving this kind of advice, and able to meet it?
was speaking to an NHS dietician at the weekend, and she was saying larger people on these drugs need to be consuming a huge amount of protein to counter muscle loss as a result of their calorie deficit.
Which is obviously challenging when their appetite is massively decreased anyway.
Think it was 1.5g per kg of bodyweight, per day.
Curious whether those of you getting the jabs privately are receiving this kind of advice, and able to meet it?
wife seems to be being quite sensible about it and has been watching/reading all the advice to the nth degree.
she's trying to eat as much protein as possible as per the advice and i suppose for satiety too.
had a good first week where a fair few lbs dropped off, bit slower now but she's happy with that as long as its going in the right direction. she's a little worried about the imminent price increase so has just ordered a load more for the next months i think.
I was speaking to an NHS dietician at the weekend, and she was saying larger people on these drugs need to be consuming a huge amount of protein to counter muscle loss as a result of their calorie deficit.
Which is obviously challenging when their appetite is massively decreased anyway.
Think it was 1.5g per kg of bodyweight, per day.
Curious whether those of you getting the jabs privately are receiving this kind of advice, and able to meet it?
That sounds like far too much. For me that'd mean the equivalent of eating 3 chicken breasts every day which I'd struggle with on Mounjaro. I'm generally getting about 1g per Kg and and my power level on the smart trainer seems to be staying about the same. Riding outside is getting noticeably easier with the weight loss.
I was advised to eat plenty of protein (no actual amount was specified) and do weight bearing exercises along with my cycling. Creatine is also useful to mitigate muscle loss so I'm taking 5g of that a day along with a multivitamin.
Something important which people on here appear to be missing when taking these injections is the need to still ensure your eating/drinking/exercising healthily
Well apart from all the times it has already been mentioned.
That sounds like far too much. For me that'd mean the equivalent of eating 3 chicken breasts every day which I'd struggle with on Mounjaro.
This is exactly the convo we had, we'd just had chicken for tea and I asked how many pieces it would equal.
But she did point out that protein from all food adds up quickly, and that protein powder is probably useful for a lot of people.
A quick google suggests 0.8g to 1.5g is the recommended range, so it's quite possible a lot of people have been told lower.