MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
Feefoo, if you stick 5l of fuel in your car and it does 10km per litre then you would expect it to travel 50km, but what if i stuck 5 l in and 1 litre went straight out the exhaust, then you would only travel 40km and have to fill up. This time you stick in 1 litre because you think that you have 10km to travel and yet you only travel 4/5 of a mile so you are still short.
Thats how energy works in your body.
Also whats the point in talking about calories in and out as its a meaningless unit as no one can measure it unless in a controled environment.
If I eat 2000 calories per day and I use 2400 calories per day for say 6 months what will happen to my weight?
If you're eating 2000 calories that are sourced entirely from sugar, the insulin your body produces in response will prevent you from accessing fat reserves so you'll not be able to burn 2400 calories?
If you're eating 2000 calories that are sourced entirely from sugar
I'm guessing that the statement I quoted:
it's not how many calories you eat that's the issue, it's where they come from
wasn't saying "don't eat a diet that is pure sugar"
Clearly I was taking an extreme example, but the example holds at lower levels. Anything causing an insulin spike will inhibit burning of fat for energy.
Eat a sugary breakfast and then go for a fun. Your body will use the immediate blood sugar first, then start on the body's glycogen stores. Result = no fat burned.
Go for a run as soon as you wake up, before eating anything, and the lack of insulin means that your body will burn fat to fuel the run.
Where your calories come from [i]does[/i] count.
But over a [i]prolonged period[/i] (like 6 months) your body will have to give up some of its fat as there's no glycogen available.
It may not be comfortable but the result is weight loss.
Go for a run as soon as you wake up, before eating anything, and the lack of insulin means that your body will burn fat to fuel the run.
This is BS, no one has ever proved that theory.
But over a prolonged period (like 6 months) your body will have to give up some of its fat as there's no glycogen available.It may not be comfortable but the result is weight loss.
If you're eating carbs, there's glycogen available.
This is BS
That's me told. Well argued 🙂
Bloody hell.
If you care to read on..
no one has ever proved that theory.
What you eat matters, even the folk on here must realise it. Apart from the usual argumentative types who like the sound of their own backsides.
If you're eating carbs, there's glycogen available.
Not when calories in are less than calories out [i]over a prolonged period[/i]. Obviously.
What you eat matters, even the folk on here must realise it
Yes, but "matters" to what degree and for how long.
Eating only Snickers bars for 6 months would be a silly.
Claiming the body will not burn fat if starved of glycogen is also silly.
What you eat matters, even the folk on here must realise it. Apart from the usual argumentative types who like the sound of their own backsides.
What you eat does matter, but you could eat junk food all day and lose weight if you are under your TDEE.
You would be ****ing starving though, and not get anything of nutritional value.
What I don't understand is that regularly on these Supersize/Superskinny programs... the skinny one often gets by on chocolate and sugary drinks. Often they're consuming 2k calories worth. How does this work with the insulin model?
Lols SsizeSkinny the skinny one is usually a moaning end of a bell who refuses to try the other diet, kind of the point of the show. At the end the fat one has usually lost a bit say a stone or 2, the skinny one has put on 1 lb at best. You have to laugh.
Too true... I love it! The skinny one does often exist on sugar alone though.
E
ating only Snickers bars for 6 months would be a silly.
I had a mate that used snickers bars for his calorie intake during the spring when he was tring to lose weight for the climbing season. He was pretty ripped and climbing well after a few weeks of climbing and eating 4 snickers a day.
TSY is trollin, again.
Anyway.
Mike, you've taken a bit of a bashing from Skywalker.
However, you are along the right lines and its SW who is full of it.
Reality is, its not black n white, it aint clear cut.
Whats fascinating is that the body has the capability to adapt as much as it can.
To the prevailing conditions wrt to the fuel sources available.
IIRC, this thread wasn't started to see who is right.
The OP wants rid of his belly fat.
Theres any number of ways to achieve this.
If you fancy paying for some advice.
Contact Dave Smith.
Or if you fancy going DIY.
Do your research.
Listen to forum types at your peril.
Some will be [i]right[/i] others are just full of shit.
Good luck and Good Night !
😉
I had a mate that used snickers bars for his calorie intake during the spring when he was tring to lose weight for the climbing season. He was pretty ripped and climbing well after a few weeks of climbing and eating 4 snickers a day.
He would be, a king size Snickers bar is only 220 calories. 880 calories a day is well below pretty much anyones BMR.
Like I said, you can eat what you want as long as you eat less than your TDEE, then you will lose weight.
Its not healthy though. You need to eat nutritionally dense low calorie foods to give your body the macro and micro nutrients it needs. Eating low calorie food will also keep you fuller for longer because you can eat a whole lot more of it.
Mike, you've taken a bit of a bashing from Skywalker.
However, you are along the right lines and its SW who is full of it.
Show me the evidence to back up the "exercising on an empty stomach will burn only fat" theory. Its nothing but a myth.
Its so funny no matter what you say on here, someone will come one to contradict you, usually with an anecdote about their mate.
My mate was able to drink rat piss 3 times a day (as long as you add a teaspoon of fairy liquid) and he put on 4lbs of muscle a day, he stopped after 2 years as he weighed 2000kgs. Fact.
Its so funny no matter what you say on here, someone will come one to contradict you, usually with an anecdote about their mate.
No they won't!
I think the best thing you can do is find someone who has an approach to weight management that works for them and will fit in best with what you can do or deem acceptable to your lifestyle.
Personally I believe that exercising on empty in the morning does work. If you don't want to do it or need some peer reviewed study before considering it... that's great, choose something else for you.
TSY.
I hope theres still time for you to edit that....
😉
Oh dear
If you're eating carbs, there's glycogen available.Not when calories in are less than calories out over a prolonged period. Obviously.
Er, not obvious, is it?
Glucose in + fat in + fat utilisaion from stores + glycogen from stores = calories out during + calories out afterwards
But that's a gross oversimplification too.
Show me the evidence to back up the "exercising on an empty stomach will burn only fat" theory. Its nothing but a myth.
I've read many times that insulin inhibits fat burning for exercise. I didn't think it was controversial.
I've read many times that insulin inhibits fat burning for exercise. I didn't think it was controversial.
So if you eat something that doesn't cause an insulin spike?
Like I said show me the evidence, which will be hard as there is none.
So if you eat something that doesn't cause an insulin spike?
I think you would also be burning more fat.
Not got time to do a load of research, but this page has a bunch of citations at the end to add to its credibility
http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/fat-burning-using-body-fat-instead-of-carbohydrates-as-fuel-40844
It says this:
A diet high in carbohydrate will suppress fat oxidation, and a diet low in carbohydrate will result in high fat oxidation rates. Ingesting carbohydrate in the hours before exercise will raise insulin and subsequently suppress fat oxidation by up to 35%(5) or thereabouts. This effect of insulin on fat oxidation may last as long as six to eight hours after a meal, and this means that the highest fat oxidation rates can be achieved after an overnight fast.
Then it also hedges its bets with this
The efficacy of [pre-breakfast] training for weight reduction is also not known.
I'm prepared to listen to your arguments but you're going to have to do better than you have done so far.
Hey, here's a novel suggestion.
Anyone considered a balanced diet?
Yes, of course. D'you think I'm stupid?
D'you think I'm stupid?
Well, that's a whole new can of worms, isn't it Molly? 😉
Go on, I'm all ears 🙂
Anyone considered a balanced diet?
Define "balanced".
Honestly think that if you genuinely tried riding every other day as i'm suggesting and didn't lose any weight, then you needed to ride more.
i simply fail to believe you can't exercise yourself thinner.
Also 'risk of over training'?
WTF?
I'm going to start a thread on over-training.
I want to hear people's experiences.
Solo - did I offend you again you silly sausage? You should stand by your convictions and leave the abusive images that you post rather than editing with a lol cat. Have a 😉
I'm going to start a thread on over-training.I want to hear people's experiences.
Whellllll....
Until late September I will be doing three running sessions a week, and three circuits sessions a week with one day off. Some weirdo guru type is advising me on the running, but to be honest, I've never been sure whether to believe him, despite the pink bentley outside his house. But TSY, I will let you know how it goes. I think maybe the one-day-off thing means I'm not "over-training" though, does it?
Darcy - I have a special thread for such conversations...
Darcy - I have a special thread for such conversations...
Oh FFS, I'm not getting involved in another thread where you and Solo will be at one another again. 🙂 😉 😯 😐
😉 Solo 😉 doesn't know about training DD.
I appologised to him the other day and he's still not happy. 😥 😕 😐
[i]i simply fail to believe you can't exercise yourself thinner.[/i]
I wasn't aware that anyone was saying that if you do lots of activity.
That your body won't shed some weight.
However, I saw a cap in the gym the other day.
Old as the hills and heavy.
His movement was stiff and restricted, while he struggled to move weights.
Is he going to be able to be active enough to lose the few excess stones in weight, he was carrying ?.
I believe the concept that you must exercise to lose weight is flawed.
I think an individual should address their diet when they need to reduce the amount of accumulated body fat.
I also believe that they should exercise for the benefits this is recorded as providing.
Combined with resting often enough to allow system wide inflammation from exercising, to reduce.
To exercise strenuously, everyday, isn't a good idea.
In my book.
Some might refer to this as..... " over exercising / training ".
[i] Solo doesn't know about training DD.
I appologised to him the other day and he's still not happy
[/i]
**sighs**
I can not advise someone with specific instruction for [i]training[/i].
I'd respectfully refer that person to Dave for that.
Pay loads for a bike ?.
Well, pay a little for some professional advise which could last you a lifetime.
😉
Here:
[url] http://www.ffflow.com/flow.html [/url]
Apologies:
I've not read one and couldn't give a tinkers cuss.
Apologies from some types are as hollow as they are.
What? - edit resulted in double post ??
Interesting thread.
I've lost about half a stone this year, but have plateaued at about 14:10-12. Keen to start the downward trend again, so have upped exerices frequency and intensity and also am starting to look a bit more carefully at diet...
Anyone considered a balanced diet?
Have lived my life believing this - but really, what is a balanced diet?
Out of interest, and based on a post ^^, I downloaded the myfitnesspal app and dialled in my details for yesterday.
Calories in = 2464
Calories out = -593 (specific exercise, not just gen calorie burn...)
Net = 1871
Goal = 1890
Not much different from what I expected - circa 2500 cal for an adult male etc.
The BIG SURPRISE was the "balance" of my dietary intake - which I [i]thought[/i] was fairly well balanced - and also thought that as a family we don't have a very high fat diet.
WOW - BIG ERROR
Carbs = 40%
[b]Fats = 42%[/b] 😯
Protein = 18%
Just goes to show how far out that balanced diet can be
I have a new diet idea.
It will be called the iCaveman diet.
Rules are simple and you can eat as much as you can:
All food must be caught, dug or picked
No food can be purchased or farmed
I reckon follow that and everybody would loose weight and be fitter.
HTH
Jeepers is this still going!
I thought it was going to be a simple answer!
However, I saw a cap in the gym the other day.
Old as the hills and heavy.
His movement was stiff and restricted, while he struggled to move weights.
Is he going to be able to be active enough to lose the few excess stones in weight, he was carrying ?.
errr. i hate to generalise my ideas and everything. but are you serious? naturally if you are too old/unable to exercise then you mihgt not be able to work away a belly...
Apologies:
I've not read one and couldn't give a tinkers cuss.
Apologies from some types are as hollow as they are.
Awww... I really have upset you... do you want a hug?
i simply fail to believe you can't exercise yourself thinner.
Totally disagree - but accept it will be diffrent for everyone.
Most periods of extended exercise / really stressing my body that I have undertaken during my life have resulted in weight gain
i hate to generalise my ideas and everything.
I put it to you sir, that your comment:
i simply fail to believe you can't exercise yourself thinner.
was a mahoosive generalisation.
😉 😉 😐 😡 😯
As molly says, we're all different but without careful attention to diet as well as regular exercise, the weight wimply won't shift.
rkk01.
Not all fats are bad for you and avoiding fat wouldn't be the way I'd choose to lose weight.
Or as I read somewhere on some twitter feed...
"You can spend all day doing abs exercise but your six-pack will still be hiding behind that inch of flab" 😀
Boys, are you still stressing about your beach bodies?
You'll be comparing spray tan soon LOL.
i hate to generalise my ideas and everything.
I put it to you sir, that your comment:i simply fail to believe you can't exercise yourself thinner.
was a mahoosive generalisation.
but that's ****ing stupid. the fella in that example CAN'T EXERCISE. it's akin to telling me the theory of cycling yourself fit doesn't work cos your mate can't ride a bike.
[i]Boys, are you still stressing about your beach bodies?
You'll be comparing spray tan soon LOL.[/i]
😆
Spooky, There were a few boys in the gym last Friday.
The usual chatting more than doing..
Then another walks in and its..
"Hi, how you doing, you look brown, been to Tenerife ?"
Conversation then descends into talk about tans and that one of their absent crew, has had an injection.
Getting injected to get tanned.
FFS, its the world and its going MAD.
DD.
I am in awe of your clarity and observations on the topic.
Have you swollowed an iKnowledge pill ?.
Wind your neck in Nick.
The point stands.
Exercise, alone, isn't the sustainable solution to reducing body fat.
In my humble opinion and experience.
Establish [i]good[/i] habits as early as possible and reap the rewards.
but that's **** stupid
It's not. Honestly. (and I'm not looking for an argument)
Diet should be all about eating healthily and keeping simple carbs to a minimum, and at least replacing some of them for more complex carbs. Small steps...replace white for brown stuff etc. Cut out sugar as much as possible.
Exercise should be about getting out there and feeling good about life.
If you exercise simply to lose weight, you will end up feeling disappointed...and we know what happens when we feel disappointed don't we? We eat biscuits and cake. 🙂
Solo, Yeti and I have been doing protein shots - brainfood, if you like.
Totally disagree - but accept it will be diffrent for everyone.Most periods of extended exercise / really stressing my body that I have undertaken during my life have resulted in weight gain
Stress (in the life collapsing around you sense) can have very weird effects on people's weight - some shed weight and others gain weight (a response to hormones, AFAIK).
But, continuous heavy exercise* also creates a similar stress response. I used to ride c170 miles a week just commuting, and I never lost any weight. It clearly wasn't the 2 hours of riding a day (which would leave me shattered and not enjoying the weekend or evening rides), but it was my diet (which involved a lot of simple carbs). At best the exercise allowed me to maintain weight, but it didn't force automatic weight loss.
I climbed off the bike a year ago through illness (there's a surprise) and my weight ballooned.
*I'm also of the view that this caused my heart problems.
[i]Exercise should be about getting out there and feeling good about life.[/i]
Very well put, I like this.
[i]Solo, Yeti and I have been doing protein shots - brainfood, if you like. [/i]
Well, at least its working for you.
😉
DD - you need to lay off the shots... with posts like that you'll end the thread.
Stress (in the life collapsing around you sense) can have very weird effects on people's weight
Sorry - didn't mean stress as we tend to use in a work / lifestyle sense...
Stress, as in constantly subjecting your body to a physically demanding regimen, day in / day out.
The main examples I have experienced have been on expeditions - 6 weeks, in the wild, 100-120 lbs rucksacks, under canvas the whole time, all weathers, all food having to be packed in by re-supply relays.
Places huge demands on the body, which I'm pleased to say has always adapted relatively quickly...
...but, has always upped the overall body weight quite considerably
I would never have thought myself so "weak", but periods of under-exercising (or in other words, being a lazy arse) coincide with periods of eating shitty food.
Coincidence? I don't think so.
OK, back to the calories...
If calories in < calories out = GOOD
Then what sort of a daily deficit is good, without feeling utterly shit / hungry / exhausted etc?
Glitcheroo
[i]OK, back to the calories...
If calories in < calories out = GOOD
Then what sort of a daily deficit is good, without feeling utterly shit / hungry / exhausted etc?
[/i]
Molgrips.
You're good at explaining this.
Damn, no wonder there are so many fat bastards out there.
There is no "secret" to losing weight, its simple.
There is one thing you [i]need[/i] to know, your total daily energy expenditure* (TDEE), eat less than this and you [i]will[/i] lose weight.
Get yourself a calorie counting app like Myfitnesspal (probably the best one)
3500 calories = 1 lbs of fat, aim for 500 calories less than your TDEE per day and you will lose roughly 1 lb a week, any more than this and you risk losing muscle too.
You will need to eat a healthy well balanced diet so your body gets the macro and micro nutrients it needs. Low calorie high fibre foods are a must (lots of vegetables, salad etc) you can eat more of them so you will feel full for longer.
Also no simple carbs, only brown grains.
* Plently of websites with calculators to work this out for you.
Also no simple carbs, only brown grains.
So, it's not [i]that[/i] simple then is it?
SW.
While I disagree with you on a few things.
I am curious to know how Joe Bloggs ascertians their 'TDEE'
I'm not a science boffin.
But to know how many calories you are [i]burning[/i], don't you need to know something about your VO2s, etc ?.
I'm not a science boffin.
But to know how many calories you are burning, don't you need to know something about your VO2s, etc ?.
Online calculators will be more than accurate enough for Joe Bloggs. They obviously work on averages but most of us aren't that different despite what we'd like to think.
I am curious to know how Joe Bloggs ascertians their 'TDEE'
Yep - calorie estimnates for specific exercise is one thing - how much burnt for general up and down the stairs "living & breathing" stuff is a bit trickier...
http://scoobysworkshop.com/accurate-calorie-calculator/
Use that, be honest about your exercise/daily activities.
If you know your body fat percentage use the Cunningham research model as its the most up to date.
Edit: Or you can just keep guessing, dismissing any info from people who try and help you, and continue to be a fat bastard.
rkk01 - how much do you weigh... my guess is you BMR will be about 1800.
SW.
Calories from Protein and calories from carbohydrate.
Dealt with in the same way within the Human body ?.
About 14st 10-12, aiming for 14st 7
ETA the myfitnesspal app gives a goal calorie intake of 1890 per day - but presumably that represents a target net of exercise / exercise fuel 😉
Yesterday:
Calories in = 2464
Calories out = -593 (specific exercise, not just gen calorie burn...)
Net = 1871
Goal = 1890
Today - cycle to work day, so calories expended through exercise will be more like 1500
Someone's got ants* in their pants.
*complex carbs
I'd guess at 2000 for your BMR add 10% for moving around. Add another load for your exercise then knock off 15% for weight loss and the fact that you will eat more than you realise.
You could try and make it more complicated, but it won't make things much different. I don't beleive in over-complicating things and it's got me pretty lean.
Solo, you don't need to think about cutting carbs until you get to roughly 10% body fat. Until then don't worry about macro nutrient ratios, just include a lean protein (chicken, fish etc) and some complexed carbs with every meal. A fish oil or flax seed supplement would be beneficial to get your healthy fats, or a cook with olive oil, drizzle it on your salad, you get the idea.
Honestly think that if you genuinely tried riding every other day as i'm suggesting and didn't lose any weight, then you needed to ride more
Much as I would love to ramble through the hills every day, I have this thing called a job, and another called a family - they both require a fair bit of my attention.
I'm sure you've heard about my long distance commuting experiment a few years back, but it seems relevant. I was working in Bristol so I decided to cycle there from Cardiff. I managed it usually between two and four times a week for about three months (the duration of the job). I ate normally except for plenty of carb supplements to fuel the large amount of riding - using the 1g/kg/h formula, minus a bit for moderation. I rode thousands of miles and gained about 2kg.
Also, I have met quite a few people who are somewhat overweight rather than obese, and decide to get thin by hitting the gym. They got fitter, stronger and felt better, but didn't lose weight. It's fairly common from what I hear.
I don't think there's any point in separating diet and exercise when it comes to health. They are both very important, and both need to support each other to achieve your aim. By that I mean if you want to get faster you need to train and eat to support that; if you want to lose weight then you need to change what you eat and exercise to support that.
Skywalker - I'm very sceptical that the average calculators are much use, to be honest. I don't think the average Joe Bloggs is the most common Joe Bloggs - the mean is not helpful here. Just look at the enormous diversity of body types we see irrespective of diet. Plenty of tremendously skinny people who eat like crap and don't exercise, and plenty of people who do a lot of exercise and are still 10kg overweight. There's a chart at the end of that article I linked to showing the massive variation in people's genetic ability to oxidise fat - so much so that it showed obese couch potatoes with the same fat burning ability as pro cyclists.
Also, I have met quite a few people who are somewhat overweight rather than obese, and decide to get thin by hitting the gym. They got fitter, stronger and felt better, but didn't lose weight. It's fairly common from what I hear.
That's because a lot of people are under the impression that if they exercise they can eat as much as they want, which is pretty dumb.
You can always out eat your TDEE, in which case you will obviously not lose weight, you will put it on.
I think that many people who start exercising more, 'believe' they're not eating more.
Skywalker - I'm very sceptical that the average calculators are much use, to be honest. I don't think the average Joe Bloggs is the most common Joe Bloggs - the mean is not helpful here. Just look at the enormous diversity of body types we see irrespective of diet. Plenty of tremendously skinny people who eat like crap and don't exercise, and plenty of people who do a lot of exercise and are still 10kg overweight. There's a chart at the end of that article I linked to showing the massive variation in people's genetic ability to oxidise fat - so much so that it showed obese couch potatoes with the same fat burning ability as pro cyclists.
Figuring out if you are an ectomorph, mesomorph or endomorph isn't exactly difficult!
The calculators are pretty accurate, especially the ones that take your body fat percentage into consideration like the Cunningham research model.
Its pretty simple. Use it, eat the amount it says, if it works then fine, if not make adjustments.
Its definitely better than guessing that's for sure.
[i]Solo, you don't need to think about cutting carbs until you get to roughly 10% body fat. Until then don't worry about macro nutrient ratios, just include a lean protein (chicken, fish etc) and some complexed carbs with every meal. A fish oil or flax seed supplement would be beneficial to get your healthy fats, or a cook with olive oil, drizzle it on your salad, you get the idea[/i]
Whatever.
I'm not debating that with you.
You've jumped straight to Carbs, blah, blah.
You posted:
[i]aim for 500 calories less than your TDEE per day and you will lose
roughly 1 lb a week,[/i]
I'm simply asking about Calories and their source and whether there is a difference, in your opinion.
Once we establish that not all sources of calories are handled the same.
Then we might reflect on how useful the advise of running a calorie deficit is, esp, wrt sustainability.
Or, maybe not.
😉
[i]That's because a lot of people are under the impression that if they exercise they can eat as much as they want, which is pretty dumb.[/i]
TSY to the forum... Oh !, hang on.