MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
<<hits buzzer>>
that hugely divisive Brexit thing?
Correct!
I've solved it at last. Ernie is Alf Garnett
Who's saying all Labour voters are racist apart from Ernie? Many Labour voters who voted Tory last time were as Brexit was generally touted as keeping rhe foreigners out of our borders and politics, ergo playing to the racists. If people voted for Brexit for economic reasons they may not have racists but they were idiots.
Yup and now that those that voted for brexit are realising that everything promised is turning out to be the exact opposite....
The Tory/Blukip vote is collapsing
People want the faragist/ Johnsonian fantasy of a britannia unchained, but they are getting is Britannia Unchained.... and the free market deregulation Singapore on Thames that many who financed brexit are now building via Truss & Kwarteng.... well that's not for the benefit of the little people
If people voted for Brexit for economic reasons they may not have racists
Well that's an opinion you don't often see on stw. Apparently you be a working-class brexit supporter without being a racist.
Perhaps that needs to be said a bit more often?
Apparently you be a working-class brexit supporter without being a racist.
Of course you can. Jesus, same, same, same straw man, again and again. Dull as…
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If people voted for Brexit for economic reasons
They were pretty thick
Of course you can. Jesus, same, same, same straw man, again and again. Dull as…
Don't give me that shit Kelvin, don't pretend that working-class brexiteers aren't automatically labelled as racists by many on here, if not the majority.
And if it's so "dull" why keep the issue topical by throwing your three pennies worth into the debate? Just ignore it and carry on discussing Liz Truss.
🥱
Yeah I get it, it's so dull that you want the discussion to stop after you have made your point.
So what are you, racist, stupid, or a hedge fund manager?
You don't have to choose only one answer... hahah!
I might not be able to devote myself full time to the ol' racism.
Another one bites the dust (hopefully)
"Conservatives from all wings of the party are angry Truss is prepared to ditch Boris Johnson’s promise, made in May, to uprate benefits in full, potentially leaving millions of low-income families hundreds of pounds worse off in the middle of a cost of living crisis."
Well it's good to see that Conservatives from all wings of the party are uniting.... against a Tory prime minister.
I’m amazed that a call for party discipline from such a moderate, considered, intelligent and unifying voice as Suella Braverman has fallen on deaf ears
I don’t see any mention of Truss’s travel expenses as Foreign Secretary. From the Guardian:
Liz Truss racked up a bill of almost £2m on overseas visits during her final months as foreign secretary, according to new analysis that the Liberal Democrats said showed she had “quite literally been taking the taxpayer for a ride”.
In 20 trips during the first six months of the year, a total of £1.8m was spent, despite the now prime minister’s call for prudence with public money and government departments being told to find “efficiency savings”.
The figure far exceeds the £67,000 her predecessor as foreign secretary, Dominic Raab, spent on trips abroad in the six months before the Covid pandemic, which caused global travel disruption and in-person meetings between world leaders to be abandoned.
The visits made by Truss between January and June included some related to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. However, these were on the relatively inexpensive side when compared with a £454,000 trip to Australia, another to Washington DC that cost £229,000, as well as a tour to Rwanda and Turkey that cost taxpayers just under £200,000.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/oct/09/liz-truss-foreign-secretary-overseas-trips-cost
What saddens me is that my parents were quite implicit that people should be treated equally and fairly, when I grew up.
It’s pretty depressing to see them drift to the right as they’ve aged, my dad certainly way more openly homophobic and both seem to have become more racist, especially towards Travellers/ gypsies & eastern Europeans as well as South Asians etc, even though as far as I can see they have very little interaction with them.Much of this prejudice comes from the media they consume.
Brexit certainly brought out a side to them I’d not seen/ been aware of. They bought into the vote leave/ farage propaganda & bigotry very easily
My parents have gone the same way, they both read the Daily Mail. It's absolutely heartbreaking to watch two people who brought me up in a tolerant and welcoming family go down the route they have.
@mattyfez - you might want to change your picture hosting site 😳
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oops.. I was just being lazy ..
My sincere apollogies ... gahh!
I can't edit the post now, @MODS, feel free to delete the post.
I don’t see any mention of Truss’s travel expenses as Foreign Secretary. From the Guardian:
Also from that article:
Truss has tasked Whitehall departments with cracking down on waste. Last month she told Sky News: “There are plenty of areas where the government can become more efficient"
When I first heard Truss make the claim that there could be plenty of efficiency savings in government I thought how can that be - we had 12 years of Tory governments.
I now see from the £1.8 million travel bill that the former Foreign Secretary racked up in 6 months exactly what she meant.
This. Is. A. Disgrace. as they say.
I don't think everyone that voted Leave is/ was a racist. It's far more complex than that. However, I do believe that Brexit facilitated a more racist outlook in the country in general, allowing a racist undercurrent to come to the surface. And I believe that it was possible to foresee the way that undercurrent was being played on before the vote (the Farage posters, etc.) and how it would play after.
So when deciding the way to vote, it wasn't purely about Leave or Remain, but a basket of reasons AND IMPLICATIONS
So I don't think everyone that voted Leave was a racist, but I think many set aside the potential or likely outcomes in deciding their vote.
And that's how we find ourselves where we are now, where people like Patel and Braverman are empowered to implement nasty racist policies.
I don’t think everyone that voted Leave is/ was a racist.
No but every racist did vote Brexit.
here comes the U turn on benefits - again told that if she took her policy to a vote she would lose even if she made it confidence vot https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/oct/09/liz-truss-on-verge-of-major-u-turn-on-real-terms-benefits-cut
It sounds like braverman is suffering a bit, and correctly so! But she's the thick end of an even thicker wedge.
I'm quite partial to some French cheeses. So I'm obviously a disgrace to England.
every racist did vote Brexit.
Well the majority of Tory MPs, including Liz Truss (in yet another attempt to keep this thread OT) voted against brexit.
So it's good to hear that the majority of Tory MPs in 2016 weren't racists. And as it goes against the apparent stw consensus that the Tory Party is a racist party it's nice to know that isn't the case.
I assume that as no racist voted Remain Liz Truss can't be accused of being racist. Will she be abandoning the Tories blatantly racist policy of deporting non-European refugees to Rwanda?
My parents voted for Brexit. They could not be described as working class. I'm not sure if they're racist or not, but my mother voted for it to "keep out all the Romanian immigrants".
Which I always thought quite odd considering her father-in-law was a Romanian immigrant.
I suspect they fell for the idea that they were part of a brave minority, standing up to defend The British From the woke liberal elite and the onrushing tide of globalism. When in fact they were just conned by some duplicitous liars.
Truss desperately trying to unify her MP's behind her now after totally alienating them.
She's appointed a Sunak supporter as new trade minister.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63194208
She's a complete lame duck now which at least means her more damaging ideas are less likely to be implemented.
There's quite a lot of comments here that rely on racism being binary when I'm sure it's a spectrum that we are all on at some point.
Has anyone seen the ideas being floated for changes to how child care an nurseries are funded? Absolutely terrifying, this is a batshit mental idea
The English system is already regressive - kids with working parents get enhanced child care and nursery provision pre-school. This would compound that further where you'd have kids with motivated and better off parents securing them a better pre school education and those at the bottom potentially turning up to reception having received no formal educational support.
The main issues with child care are a) there isn't enough of it and b) it's expesinve and c) a postcode lottery. It's already in crisis. These eejits could end up crashing what is already a vulnerable system without fixing any of the problems.
It does also feel like it's the sort of thing they'd like to do to education and healthcare more broadly. Preschool kids being the sandbox to try it out because they're a small minority.
No but every racist did vote Brexit.
So you're saying that of the millions who didn't vote, none were racist?
Mate of mine voted in favor of brexit. He is in no way a racist and is a great believer in equality and human rights. I asked him why and he answered that he just liked the idea of us being entirely independent and not answerable to others. "Just like why I went self employed" he said. I wonder how many others voted for the same simplistic reasons without any more deep thought about it?
There’s quite a lot of comments here that rely on racism being binary when I’m sure it’s a spectrum that we are all on at some point
Maybe, but I find it more interesting that Brexiteer's voting motives are still a discussion at all six years after the initiating vote and after the whole thing was declared 'Done', it's cast a long shadow.
The fact that "anti-woke" is now a political position that people identify with is a part of Brexit legacy (IMO). Throughout the whole period since the leave vote the right generally, including the Torys, have been refining their appeal to those who see themselves as "anti-woke" but how it's defined seems just as adjustable as Leave voter's motives, which depend on the miscellaneous chips on their shoulders.
I suppose the real question is how important is that whole 'anti' position is to voters Vs the other policies Truss seems able to adopt and drop at short notice which seemingly do have a material effect on their lives... To be clear they thought you were all too busy raging about pronouns, being allowed to 'call a spade a spade' and "cancel culture" to care much if they gave the wealthy a tax cut and took the limits off of banker's bonuses.
Basically If you vote based on perceptions of "woke-ness" you're a plumb, it's a distraction from the actual game being played...
I am working-class, I intensely dislike “wokism”, and I very strongly supported leaving the EU.
Then you're an idiot. That's it. Wonder when/if you'll have your "Lt. Colonel Nicholson" realisation?
Truss’s travel expenses as Foreign Secretary
The reason she can't see that SHE should save money is because SHE believes that it's us who should be saving money, not her.
Reminds me of work, example:
I worked for a large retailer in the mid-80's and we'd almost gone to the wall (financially) and a bloke (future Tory MP) was brought in as Chief Exec. Headlines in the Yorkshire Post were how he was going to cut costs, get rid of company cars & the like etc etc. When he came on board first thing he did was quadruple the size of his office and the second thing was the company bought both his & his wifes' company cars that he'd bought (at a discount no doubt) from his previous employer. He continued to enrich himself while I was there, while fiercely reducing our incomes.
Since then I've worked for many companies, many at C-level and everywhere I've worked there's a 'bar', if you're below you get shat on, above you're rewarded for shatting on those below. Anyone who's worked in the US will recognize this behaviour, as they don't even try to hide it there.
I find it more interesting that Brexiteer’s voting motives are still a discussion at all six years after the initiating vote and after the whole thing was declared ‘Done’
It's still being discussed six years later because a significant proportion of Remainers, including many on stw, simply can't accept the referendum result and move on.
They want to endlessly discuss the issue and denigrate those who voted Leave with their main criticism being based on allegations of racism.
Which they then deny when challenged.
Does anyone know if she's coming or going at the moment?!
U-turns on anything and everything, stories now that Boris-era projects are being cut, a lot of speculation that HS2 is for a series of dramatic cuts, the new "Great British Rail" potentially one for the chop, an article earlier in the Guardian with the report that the new Active Travel England department may not have legal requirement for consultation (therefore allowing councils to build any old shite as cycle infrastructure in a rush to "level up").
Basically all the broadly positive stuff coming under the axe.
I am working-class, I intensely dislike “wokism”, and I very strongly supported leaving the EU.
Then you’re an idiot. That’s it.
Like millions of others obviously. At least that simplifies matters and now you know not to argue with me. No one should argue with an idiot.
It’s still being discussed six years later because a significant proportion of Remainers, including many on stw, simply can’t accept the referendum result and move on.
I will never accept the result and move on. Its the single most damaging political decision of my lifetime and will continue to damage the UK into the future.
ernielynch
It’s still being discussed six years later because a significant proportion of Remainers, including many on stw, simply can’t accept the referendum result and move on.
In fairness, if Leave had lost the referendum by a similarly close margin I suspect many Leave voters and politicians would have seen it as unfinished business.
On a personal note, no, I'll never truly move on from the decision to leave the EU. Six years later it seems even more damaging than it did back then.
can’t accept the referendum result and move on.
I accept that it happened which is precisely why I won't shut up about it until people realise how much we've lost for absolutely no good reason. If you want me to stop going on about it I suggest you stop telling me to "accept it and move on". No, **** off, end of tangent.
It’s still being discussed six years later because a significant proportion of Remainers, including many on stw, simply can’t accept the referendum result and move on.
They want to endlessly discuss the issue and denigrate those who voted Leave with their main criticism being based on allegations of racism.
Which they then deny when challenged.
Nope, I think you're idiots - you might also be racists, but you're definitely idiots.
You still haven't understood that Brexit was just the 'tool' been used, and if you want to know the end result, go be poor/working class in the US. And for us in Scotland, we are moving on, bye.
I accept the result of the referendum. What I am miffed about is a "Leader" who simply ran away when referendum #3 didn't produce the result he wanted, creating a vacuum to be filled with ever-more-swivelly-eyed loons that leads us to where we are now.
It should show us all how fragile things are, how easily they are corrupted and how much we need a more robust system in place to stop this happening again.
Mate of mine voted in favor of brexit. He is in no way a racist and is a great believer in equality and human rights. I asked him why and he answered that he just liked the idea of us being entirely independent and not answerable to others
I'd be interested to ask him whether he could see his vote / a leave win facilitating and empowering the racist elements that were always there, and whether he had to hold his nose in order to vote the way he did. He might not be a racist but he looked the other way when marking his X, IMHO. Whether price paid for all the good stuff that he wanted was worth it, YMMV.
Back to Truss and the Tories. I'd love lower taxes and more disposable income. I've got a pension that's invested in shares and the city, I'd love for that to absolutely fly and allow me to retire early. How do i get that? Vote Tory?? But that'll mean facilitating racist immigration policies, the dilution / removal of the welfare state and NHS, etc, etc......
Ah, I realise now I can't have the things I want without big downsides bundled in, so no, despite the downsides to me you can't have my vote.
No one should argue with an idiot.
They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
In other U turn news, apparently we are no longer in a rush to sack 20% of the civil service, it can be done through natural wastage over the next few years
I asked him why and he answered that he just liked the idea of us being entirely independent and not answerable to others
99% percent of people will always be answerable to others, defining us as separated from "others" because they view the "others" as being foreign is pretty much the definition of racism.
It’s still being discussed six years later because a significant proportion of Remainers, including many on stw, simply can’t accept the referendum result and move on.
Like a lot of stuff you write, and you write an awful lot of stuff, you're just plain wrong, IMHO.
It's not the Remoaners, er, moaning it's the brexshiters - they haven't stopped bleating since loosing in 1975.
Back then it was Enoch Powell and Tony Benn. This time, Corbyn and Farage. Plus ça change.
I’ve got a pension that’s invested in shares and the city, I’d love for that to absolutely fly and allow me to retire early. How do i get that? Vote Tory??
Not if you have a pension linked to the FTSE and other UK stocks. Until this current tory stint UK growth for things like the FTSE was tracking the world. It went up, it went down, but it was never really that far off the global norms labour or tory. Post 2008 crash > 2016 we sort of kept up but not really, and post 2016 for some reason, we've added relatively little value while the rest of the world has added 50% to their indices meaning their pensions will be worth more than yours most likely. So voting tory is essentially an anti-growth policy nowadays based on the last 10 years. I guess at least Liz recognises that fact, but she's got no credible ideas to turn it around, at least none that have been widely reported.
Mate of mine voted in favor of brexit. He is in no way a racist and is a great believer in equality and human rights. I asked him why and he answered that he just liked the idea of us being entirely independent and not answerable to others
I’d be interested to ask him whether he could see his vote / a leave win facilitating and empowering the racist elements that were always there, and whether he had to hold his nose in order to vote the way he did.
I'm pretty sure he regrets it now and I really don't think he could see that far forward or indeed think it that far through. That is what bothers me, that there is the chance that many could have cast their vote without giving it really deep thought.
if Leave had lost the referendum by a similarly close margin I suspect many Leave voters and politicians would have seen it as unfinished business.
Probably not imo. The whole point of the referendum was to finally resolve the issue once and for all, which is why the LibDems were such enthusiastic supporters of a referendum on EU membership.
Even by a small margin the issue would have massively decreased in importance. I'm not saying that the campaign to leave the EU would have completely ended but it would have ceased to be a major political issue.
The massive reaction by some Remainers who won't accept the referendum result, such as the LibDems, is precisely because the referendum backfired so spectacularly on them.
What I am sure of is that a second referendum, as demanded by Labour, would have not have resolved the issue for many people. Had a second referendum resulted in a Remain vote Leavers could have reasonably have argued that there had been one referendum in favour and one referendum against so it was only fair that there should be another referendum to finally decide.
If Leave had won a second referendum then people like TJ would still not have accepted brexit, because by their own admission they never will.
A very good friend/cycling buddy of mine was a passionate Remainer, we engaged in a great deal of respectful debate on the matter, it even resulted in a "no politics" rule on the CC WhatsApp group, because although the debates were polite it was considered too divisive - we continued our debates on bike rides. The very first thing he said when he saw me after the 2019 general election results was "I accept brexit now". We never discuss brexit now.
A lot more people need to move on. Even Keir Starmer, the arch-remainer and architect of Labour's second referendum policy, has managed to accept the referendum result and has now moved on.
It was always waaaay too complex for most voters to figure out (I include myself in that). Which is why it was so easy for the sound bites to prevail. You wouldn’t believe what happened next…
There was nothing to think about, no prospectus or manifesto it was the dog whistle of the century, you could overlay whatever racist/socialist/capitalist fantasy you were wedded to and paint Brexit as the answer. Sticking two fingers up to the Brussels lot and then unicorns of your very own flavour. Except not unicorns but Dog shit bags filled with disaster capitalist flavour dog shit.
Thanks a bunch. ****ers.
So no, won't be moving on either, thanks.
Back then it was Enoch Powell and Tony Benn. This time, Corbyn and Farage. Plus ça change.
You appear to have forgotten that in 1983 it was a Labour Party manifesto commitment to leave the EEC. The then Tory prime minister Margaret Thatcher was a strong supporter of the EEC, as she was later of the single market. She was also strongly opposed to referendums btw.
So anyway, what's everyone's opinions of Liz Truss?
remember my country voted 2:1 remain and we were still forced out
It was always waaaay too complex for most voters to figure out (I include myself in that). Which is why it was so easy for the sound bites to prevail.
I really don’t think he could see that far forward or indeed think it that far through. That is what bothers me, that there is the chance that many could have cast their vote without giving it really deep thought.
At the risk of going all over the 'should have needed a 2/3 majority' or whatever stuff, I'm sorry but that doesn't really wash with me. On a major change like that you educate yourself enough to make an informed decision, or you stay with status quo. There was no 'let's give it a go, if we don't like it we can go back' option.
As for the 'too complex' - I agree if you get into the minutiae of intertrading arrangements and cross border conformity it was complex. And lest we forget, Leave were actively discouraging people from listening to expert opinion where things were difficult. But on a simple matter like whether a vote for leave was empowering a racist element, there were huge ****ing posters pointing this out. Racism is not a fringe issue, that should IMHO be a redline for any sane decent person and it was staring them in the face.
It’s still being discussed six years later because a significant proportion of Remainers, including many on stw, simply can’t accept the referendum result and move on.
We've accepted it, doesn't mean we're going to embrace it or fail to take any gifted opportunity to point out what an utter (predicted) cluster **** it is, or indeed point out the links between the populist political bull-shittery that delivered Brexit and the last couple of PMs.
They want to endlessly discuss the issue and denigrate those who voted Leave with their main criticism being based on allegations of racism.
Which they then deny when challenged.
TBF we were actually talking about the current electoral landscape, the possible impact of the "red wall" on both the previous and next election, which of course leads onto 2016 when the sort of populist politics and nudging right of the centre ground that delivered those constituencies to the Tories was helpfully established...
And lets be honest too there's been plenty of 'denigrating' us Remainer/Remoaner types (I'll happily identify as one still) before, during and after the great freedom vote and it's implementation. We're only giving as good as we get/got.
If you don't want to be called a Bigot, don't align yourself with Bigots. Considering how "Anti-Woke" you are you seem awfully sensitive to a bit of light name calling, it's just "banter" innit, Jeez where's your sense of humour? I thought you anti-wokes were pro-free speech... 😉
Being honest, deep down, Yeah of course I do ascribe a few character traits to vocal Brexiteers, especially ones that then start banging on about being "Anti-Woke". And TBH I've seen some distasteful traits displayed repeatedly since 2016 by those same people, so you'll forgive me my own entrenched prejudices and I'll pretend to ignore yours.
Anyway you got your Pyric victory, so allow us Remoaners our sour grapes while we all sit here in 'Brextopia'...
Ultimately nobody really wants to go back over Brexit again, nobody's going to change their opinions or POV now (apart from our current PM) and apparently it's "Done" so what's the point?
To Paraphrase "David Cameron" (of all people) we're definitely "all in it together" now (those of us on less than £150k at least) and how we got here is largely academic. If you think "woke" people's opinions of you matter a jot, you've missed the point; That's all just fluff to keep you distracted while the still very present political "Elite" carry on destroying your country for their gain, and telling you it's for your own good.
The thing is, its just a right to be able to moan about brexit and/or campaign for change. Exactly as it was a right for brexiteers to moan about being in the EU and campaign for change.
Why should I accept it, I don't accept that the tories are a right and proper government so will moan and then try to vote them out come the next election. I won't accept that FPTP is a right and proper voting system, so I'll moan about it and then given the chance I would vote to change this.
Everyone has the right to moan and campaign for change. Given the chance I would vote to re-enter the EU, and I'm not going to change my opinion just because some people want me to be quiet about it in order to justify their own mistakes!
Probably not imo. The whole point of the referendum was to finally resolve the issue once and for all,
Well they lost the original referendum in 75(?) but kept campaigning.
I must have missed the bit about final resolution on the ballot paper.
So anyway, what’s everyone’s opinions of Liz Truss?
She's seemingly not as interesting as Ernie! Lynch! 🙂
If you don’t want to be called a Bigot, don’t align yourself with Bigots. Considering how “Anti-Woke” you are you seem awfully sensitive to a bit of light name calling, it’s just “banter” innit, Jeez where’s your sense of humour? I thought you anti-wokes were pro-free speech…
If someone has called me a "bigot" I must have missed that, I certainly haven't complained about it. I have been called an idiot and possibly a racist though, but I choose not to be offended, it's really not that difficult. I simply suggested "don't argue with an idiot".
Yeah what's Brexit got to do with anything back on topic Liz is really cracking on with her #attackonnature. Which is basically dismantling all the protections brought in as a result of our membership of the......Ernie, care to finish the sentence?
Yeah what’s Brexit got to do with anything
Well it taught the Establishment that lies and disinformation could be used (almost weaponised) with impunity to get what they wanted with near zero consequences for them.
The political system (and a fair percentage of the electorate) is pretty much broken until it admits that truth.
I'm still thinking Lizzy is a sleeper agent for the LibDems. I mean, we knew she would be a train wreck of a PM but pretty much every single thing she has done has either messed up the country or her own party.
Reverse Midas touch...
Let's see how many tangents we can cram into this thread.
remember my country voted 2:1 remain
Oh no it didn't!
If someone has called me a “bigot” I must have missed that, I certainly haven’t complained about it. I have been called an idiot and possibly a racist though, but I choose not to be offended, it’s really not that difficult. I simply suggested “don’t argue with an idiot”.
You're quite right, I forgot point out your alignment with Idiots as well.
I'd consider "Racist" as sitting under the more general heading of "Bigot" so I think all bases are covered. It's all just terminology, the sort of nonsense that only worries those horrible Wokes, so utterly irrelevant to you I'm sure.
Yeah what’s Brexit got to do with anything back on topic Liz is really cracking on with her #attackonnature. Which is basically dismantling all the protections brought in as a result of our membership of the……Ernie, care to finish the sentence?
You're just being mean now...
Seriously though:
Yeah what’s Brexit got to do with anything
Brexit, and in particular how it was conducted both before and after the referendum, is an example of how shit the UK is at politics. We have incompetent politicians elected via a system that not only fails to reflect the public's opinions but forces politicians themselves to suppress their own. We have a media where the biased work entirely to subvert people's opinions and control their vote; and the unbiased depends on the politicans for money and can't therefore risk pissing them off too much. We have an education system that completely fails to teach anyone ANYTHING at all about politics, so the situation persists. So how the hell are we supposed to end up with good government?
All this is how we ended up here, with Liz Truss as PM.
Oh no it didn’t!
Oh yes it did
I forgot point out your alignment with Idiots as well.
I’d consider “Racist” as sitting under the more general heading of “Bigot”
Oh okay, I am apparently an idiot and a bigot/racist. Still, never mind - I am sure that there are more important things to get upset about than being called an idiot bigot/racist.
So anyway this Liz Truss woman, she's a right shite prime minister, isn't she?
Panto season already?
I think I'm the pantomime villain. I feel that I can almost hear the booing an hissing when I mention that I'm working-class, anti-woke, and anti-EU.
Who are the ugly sisters then?
Nope. You're just the chump that the villain tricked with magic beans.
If you can't see how Brexit has broken UK politics, I will remind you that in those six years we have had four Prime Ministers. Truss the arch remainer opportunist is the result of this political turmoil. At least we have a trade agreement with Armenia. Thank you Liz.
remember my country voted 2:1 remain
I think I’m the pantomime villain. I feel that I can almost hear the booing an hissing when I mention that I’m working-class, anti-woke, and anti-EU.
You're not anti-woke though. Unless you have a different idea of what 'woke' means?
I think the term started off as being aware of prejudice and discrimination that society had previously conditioned you not to notice. Such as racism, sexism etc. Then the term was hijacked first to sarcastically call out empty posturing, and then by the right wing to mock those who are anti-discrimination.
You seem to have latched onto the right-wing definition of the term, not the original concept. In other words, you've drunk the kool-aid of those you profess to be against. Maybe you need to get woke 😆
Who are the ugly sisters then?
Its difficult to ask a question like that without nominating yourself 🙂
Brexit, and in particular how it was conducted both before and after the referendum, is an example of how shit the UK is at politics.
I mentioned this at the time but will mention it again as an example of why I find it difficult to move on. Some facts that I'm sure many of you are already aware of:
A referendum result is not legally binding.
MPs have a duty ignore a referendum result and to vote for what they believe is the best option.
To declare in advance that you will go with the result of the referendum is declaring a predetermined view and renders you ineligible to vote on the decision.
Poopscoop
I’m still thinking Lizzy is a sleeper agent for the LibDems. I mean, we knew she would be a train wreck of a PM but pretty much every single thing she has done has either messed up the country or her own party.Reverse Midas touch…
+1
This could be the best played long game in political history. If so and she manages to truly break the Tories, I'll doff my cap at our Liz and will forever sing her praises.
On that front she's doing a cracking job.
You’re not anti-woke though. Unless you have a different idea of what ‘woke’ means?
Well of course mols. My definition of wokism is quite different to the definition used by some on here.
For many on here being "woke" means being against bigotry and prejudice. For me, and a very significant share of the electorate, it means pissing about the English language.
For me an absolutely classic and simple example of wokism was Jeremy Corbyn's idiotic claim that saying "stupid woman" is sexist and misogynist. It isn't, the most it is is impolite, other than that it isn't anymore unacceptable than saying stupid man, stupid person, or stupid people - which is what he claims to have said. To suggest otherwise is nonsense, millions would agree with me.
IMO there is no other way of describing that nonsense than to call it wokism, or political correctness as it used to be called before some American somewhere decided that PC was an outdated term.
The issue though is that it wouldn't really be a problem if it was just harmless nonsense, but it isn't, it's dangerous nonsense.
And for two reasons, first of all it alienates people - Corbyn made his idiotic comment on camera anyone watching it is likely to have thought what a load of bollox which isn't really a vote winner and something that could easily be exploited by the Tories.
Secondly it undermines the real struggle against bigotry and prejudice, it gives ammunition to those who are genuine bigots - like Daily Mail column writers.
As a general observations working-class people will very regularly use incorrect words, and for two reasons. Firstly it is often due to fairly basic education and secondly unlike many middle-class professionals they frankly couldn't give a monkeys, they will often for example use double negatives with gay abandon, the bastards.
Constantly harassing people about how they should speak tends unsurprisingly to wind people up - you are unlikely to create a responsive audience. Challenge bigotry without all that corbyn-like nonsense and you might have a more receptive audience.
Obviously I am generalising and no doubt someone will come along and say that they are working-class, would never dream of refering to a woman as stupid, and that they love absolutely everything about the EU. Alternatively that they were brought up in a working-class household but fully embrace wokism. There's some evidence that university education gets you woking.
I hear that Chancellor Kwasi Kwarteng is bringing forward his presentation of his "economic plan" forward by almost a month. Will it reassure the markets and save him from being sacked by Liz Truss?
bbc.com: Kwasi Kwarteng brings forward economic plan to 31 October.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-63129555
I imagine the OBR (and everyone else) will be gushing with praise for Kamikwasi’s economic genius
Either that or they’ll see it as cobbled together load of uncosted libertarian bollocks, scrawled on the back of fag packet and the pound will go into freefall agin
Hmmmmmm… I wonder which it will be…
https://twitter.com/haveigotnews/status/1579424775424081920?s=21&t=hekj0gYkAbr7KE_SM2vAlA
For many on here being “woke” means being against bigotry and prejudice. For me, and a very significant share of the electorate, it means pissing about the English language.
Oooh, NOW I see why you're confused. At the risk of derailing the thread further, I feel I must explain because this is quite important.
'Woke' literally is defined as being aware of bigotry and prejudice. You cannot subsequently redefine it to mean what you want it to mean, which I think is over-sensitivity. And yes, there are lots of instances of this. But come up with a new word, don't just drag a perfectly honorable one into the mud because that's just confusing everyone. And by doing so you are being a right-wing agent, because they are the ones who want everyone to not be 'woke'.
For me an absolutely classic and simple example of wokism was Jeremy Corbyn’s idiotic claim that saying “stupid woman” is sexist and misogynist.
It actually is - you just don't understand why. Calling someone stupid is not sexist, even though it is pretty thoughtless and generally unwarranted (we all do stupid things occasionally, but those who are genuinely unintelligent need support not insults). But when you tack on the word 'woman' you are combining the two words into something else which is indeed misogynistic. Why? Well, when was the last time you heard anyone called a 'stupid man'? It's not a common phrase. No, we usually see 'stupid boy' or 'stupid girl', but not 'stupid man'. This is because the second part is also a dismissive. Girl and boy are young people, so they imply reduced status. And in that context, so does woman. Consider complaing about Theresa May and saying 'ooh, that woman..' - that's dismissive. By omitting her name you are being deliberately rude because you'd be annoyed. But you wouldn't talk about Johnson and say 'ooh, that man..'. No, you'd say 'ooh that arsehole.. ' or some other insult. Because 'man' is a strong proud powerful word, and 'woman' can be used as a dismissive term.
See what I mean? These things are baked into the language we use all the time, they are corrosive and ever-present. Feminists have thought about this sort of thing a lot, but a lot of men haven't because they don't see an issue. Why? Because they aren't affected by it, of course. The same goes for lots of race-related terms. You could say that the N-word isn't racist because it's just an abbreviation of Negro which was simply a name for black people. I used to think this. But clearly, it isn't acceptable because of its connotations, and I have been told this by people affected by the issues. And I listened. So we as men need to listen to women who are affected by misogyny and sexism.
Do these things go too far sometimes? Quite possibly. I don't think we should accede to every demand from every person who says something. I remain unconvinced that 'woman' is an unsuitable word because it contains the word 'man', for example. But you need to listen to the people who are affected by the issues.
Here's an article about it which I just found, and is a good read especially the first sentence of the last paragraph:
I also believe in the power of apology, education and open discussion, and would like to hear him address the issue head-on. If no one is brave enough to own up to their mistakes and make a public effort to do better, then it makes it very difficult for any prejudice to be fully eradicated.