MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
Statement from Greenpeace:
Who voted for this? In a healthy democracy, people should get the government programme they voted for, but Liz Truss is putting most of it through the shredder.
People voted for strong action on climate, a fracking moratorium, world-leading environmental protections, and tackling poverty and inequality.
What they’re getting instead is fracking, a potential bonfire of rules on wildlife and nature protection, and now the prospect of benefit cuts.
Broken promise after broken promise, the prime minister is quickly turning her party’s manifesto into the longest piece of false advertising ever written. Many will be left wondering whether her government answers to the public or to the hedge fund managers, right-wing think tanks and fossil fuel giants that are cheering it on.
Many will be left wondering whether her government answers to the public or to the hedge fund managers, right-wing think tanks and fossil fuel giants that are cheering it on.
Can we have that made more pithy for your T-shirt Binners? There’s a genuinely chilling coalition of interests.
Has someone deliberately moved her autocue too far too the right?
Typical libertarian strategy. I'd imagine 'Hardman of Brexit's' Steve Baker's tiny hand might have involved.
Mike Pickering on LBC talking about the use of the M-People track.
[ as you can imagine, not thrilled - “worst government in my lifetime” - “despicable” - “awful people” - “we’ll see at the next election… roll on, roll on” ]
[ right I’m off to listen to T-Coy and relive Haçienda memories ]
Just a lot more of the culture war shit then?
All they have left if they don't take want to take responsibility.
I get that our version of democracy means a political party can elect a new leader/PM, but they can't be allowed to get away with tearing up the manifesto they were originally elected on. That would be rather authoritarian.
Never felt more alienated from this country.
Wait ‘till you see whether her tactics to build support work. We, as a country, might surprise you. She has no mandate for this, and you never know, we might wake up and deny her one.
I was just going to say the same. She's banking on the fact that because all this played well with 80,000 elderly racists in Eastbourne that the rest of the country is going to buy in too
I think most people are more concerned about their pensions and mortgage rates than they are about declaring war on Greenpeace and the BBC
I'd think that she's also just alienated a lot of more moderate voters with that hardline nonsense
All they have left if they don’t take want to take responsibility.
What? These are the tories the proud believers in personal responsibility or so they keep telling us.
but they can’t be allowed to get away with tearing up the manifesto they were originally elected on
That has always been an option anyway regards of changing leader. I am not sure how it can be fixed unless you set a certain number of manifesto claims as have to enact with x years or an automatic GE?
That was so depressing just a load more culture war shit
From the BBC:
Liz Truss was briefly interrupted in her speech by a pair of demonstrators from Greenpeace - who were then escorted out.
Health Secretary Therese Coffey has praised her boss for her handling the situation.
"Liz got on with it," she tells the BBC's Politics Live programme.
"She showed her resolve."
Yeah, it really sounds like it took a steely resolve and an unbreakable spirit to get through a brief interruption to a speech. Surely even our greatest prime ministers would acknowledge that their strength of characters is nothing to hers.
I don't think she is even representing most conservative voters. She is representing the nut job echo chamber party members and a particular strand of the conservative MPs. Real fragile ego on this one.
Theres some proper Tory loon on Five Live now saying that 'woke backbenchers' (David Camerons fault apparently) are hijacking Truss's agenda and they should 'sit down and shut up'
The one piece that stands out from her speech is:
"the vested interests dressed up as think-tanks"
The NHS is going to be absolutely overwhelmed with all those people injured by their irony meters exploding.
The whole piece about people getting taxis to appear on the BBC to challenge what her shady people get to say on air was such a jape.
“the vested interests dressed up as think-tanks”
I couldn't believe my ears when I heard that. I'm pretty sure this was put in by her owners to troll us.
*totters off to design ‘anti-growth coalition’ T-Shirts*
@binners You done yet? When will they be printed?
“the vested interests dressed up as think-tanks”
The NHS is going to be absolutely overwhelmed with all those people injured by their irony meters exploding.
That needs to be thrown at her and every minister and tory MP in every interview, with specific reference to to 55 Trumpton Street.
Theres some proper Tory loon on Five Live now saying that ‘woke backbenchers’ (David Camerons fault apparently) are hijacking Truss’s agenda and they should ‘sit down and shut up’
They must be reading from the wrong page in the playbook.
The Tory's need to get rid of Truss IMHO before they will get the traditional Labour voters back voting against their own financial interests
They must be reading from the wrong page in the playbook.
Its the emergency "break glass" option. Dont know what to do? Shout WOKE.
Admittedly if you are needing to deploy that against your backbenchers as opposed to Labour/Lib dems/red pandas then the emergency is pretty severe so just shout WOKE again and louder this time.
I wonder if woke has reached its natural end of life like snowflake, social justice warrior and so on before it. If they are using it against their own backbenchers it does indicate something new is needed for those who are actually a bit "woke".
Mike Pickering...
Whoooo???
Whoooo???
W H A T ... !! Might need another thread... or can I just post some videos here...?
Quando Quango 1982
T-Coy 1987
M People 1994
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP2GXM04BEU
Theres some proper Tory loon on Five Live now saying that ‘woke backbenchers’ (David Camerons fault apparently)
Its worth noting how many of the lunatic frontbenchers also came in under Cameron. So perhaps they have a bit of a point about Cameron being to blame.
Cameron is to blame for an awful lot! You could lay the blame for most of the problems this country faces at either his door or that of his Eton Bullingdon chum
Between the 2 of them they've been an absolute wrecking ball for the UK
dissonance
Its the emergency “break glass” option. Dont know what to do? Shout WOKE.
Fair point though it's like the "If (y)our leader is deranged do not pull the communication cord outside of a run up to an election"
Admittedly if you are needing to deploy that against your backbenchers as opposed to Labour/Lib dems/red pandas then the emergency is pretty severe so just shout WOKE again and louder this time.
Seems rather beyond desperate to me. More of an own goal.
I wonder if woke has reached its natural end of life like snowflake, social justice warrior and so on before it. If they are using it against their own backbenchers it does indicate something new is needed for those who are actually a bit “woke”.
It works too well and Labour will doubtless continue trying to tell people what they can and can't think and say they just have to remember to kick it at the other goalposts come the next election.
Whoooo???
You're thinking of his brother Wonnie.
Pickering said he discovered the song had been used while he was out riding his bike.
He said he could feel his phone "going mad in my pocket" and thought something had happened to a family member due to the number of notifications and messages.
He's had his whole day proper buggered up - he didn't even get to enjoy his bike ride.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-63145566
Still, it gave him an opportunity to point out the irony of this:
The Manchester group's founder Mike Pickering said he hoped Ms Truss took note of the lyrics, as it was "about, 'go and pack your bags and get out'".
I can't believe I called it right... my only process was... "90s, sounds superficially upbeat, has easy to understand simple lyrics that will be obviously inappropriate for the big day, made by people who wouldn't touch the Tory Party with a bargepole"... and that's the first song that came into my head... it's the most obviously wrong song to choose... I was thinking... "if The Thick Of It was real, and Tucker hadn't been told what song they had chosen, and we were watching him go apocalyptic about how stupid the choice was, what would we be listening to"... a basic joke. Believable as satire only... but now it's real. ****ing idiots. They're on another planet.
He's been on with Nihal on Five Live this afternoon absolutely slating Truss and the Tories. He really hates them!
Heather Smalls son is also a labour councillor 🤣
Anyway... it seemed rude not to fire up photoshop after Lizzies soaring oratory in her stirring and inspirational conference speech
[img] 
[/img]
It makes you wonder who thought the lyrics:
Just who do you think you are?
Stop acting like some kind of star
Were appropriate for Liz Truss as she walked onto the stage.
Or that just before her keynote speech the lyrics:
Just who do you think you are?
This time you've gone too far
Would be also appropriate.
I certainly agree with the sentiments behind the lyrics I'm just surprised that Tory HQ also agrees.
On the "anti-growth coalition" bollocks...
Starmer, in his speech in July...
"To do all that we need three things:
Growth. Growth. And Growth."
...doesn't sound like someone who is "anti-growth".
Remember the announcements made at the Labour conference... government investing in training more NHS workers... government investing in building renewables... doesn't sound "anti-growth" to me.
In fact... Truss has gone on to use the exact words three months later, today... "Growth. Growth. And Growth". It's just that she's just using it to back up her cuts and deregulation dogma.. she has no plan for real growth at all. She has nothing.
All the parties want growth. Truss and her party are the last ones you should trust to deliver it. They have got us in this hole with the decisions they have made while in power.
Another little clip from his speech...
"A plan for net-zero needs growth.
A plan for growth needs net-zero.
This is about the future of course.
Fail to tackle climate change and you can forget about growth -there is no bigger business risk."
The policies laid out at the Labour conference, and those yet to be fully formed that will be added on the run up to the next election, all have to have that at their heart. It is not choice between a greener economy and and growth. It is not a choice between a greener economy and energy security and stability. We need to transition to a greener economy, that is where the growth will come from, that is how we insulate ourselves from fossil fuels crisis (this won't be the last one). Truss boasting about opening up new oil and gas fields, and making jokes about foisting fracking in the UK people, isn't the path we should be on. It doesn't deliver on it's own terms, as well as being counter to, and delaying the move towards, net zero.
Kelvin
All the parties want growth.
That may or may not be the case however most of the electorate don't give a toss about some abstract concept measuring something irrelevant to our economy and even less relevant to what is important to most people.
Truss and her party are the last ones you should trust to deliver it.
However some voters have fallen for this "growth" thing you mention and most of them vote Tory.
Yup, growth is meaningless to most people. But if you want it, Truss has no plan to deliver it, so you still shouldn't back her. And you absolutely shouldn't believe her when she says unions, climate protesters and other parties are barriers to growth. Her party is the barrier to growth, and a barrier to improving the UK on nearly any metric you can think off, other than funnelling money into the pockets of a few finance sharks. The other parties are proposing changes that will improve people's lives, and reduce the impact on climate change... it's not just about bigger numbers being moved about by the kind of funds her friends manage.
“A plan for net-zero needs growth.
After consulting eminent Climate Scientists, that's pretty much the opposite conclusion to what Naomi Klein came to in This Changes Everything.
Economic growth is the absolute driver of climate change
Economic growth has been the absolute driver of climate change
That I can agree with. Everyone should be able to.
A period of transitioning at speed away from fossil fuels could be a driver of growth.
Mike Pickering up on Radio4 PM in a minute. He's handled all his live interviews brilliantly today. No messing about, straight to the point, no holding back. Suspect this one might be a clip/edit, so might come across a bit softer.
New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern criticized the tendency among countries to measure success by economic growth and gross domestic product at the 2019 Goalkeepers event on Wednesday, hosted by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation.
Ardern said that governments should instead focus on the general welfare of citizens and make investments in areas that unlock human potential. She pointed to New Zealand's new well-being budget that seeks to expand mental health services, reduce child poverty and homelessness, promote Indigenous rights, fight climate change, and expand opportunities.
"Economic growth accompanied by worsening social outcomes is not success," Ardern said. "It is failure."
I dont think Liz's version of growth is about improving social outcomes .
some abstract concept measuring something irrelevant to our economy and even less relevant to what is important to most people.
Then a lot of people need educating so that they understand what growth is and does. The kind of education that requires government investment so that they get better results from school, better prospects, better jobs that will boost the growth that would fund the government to invest....etc etc
Kelvin
Yup, growth is meaningless to most people.
I'd go further and say is and of itself its meaningless.
We have fallen into a habit of not even saying growth of what.... and typically when not qualified it refers to GDP which for the UK has been beyond meaningless for decades.
This stuff isn't really complicated .. certainly not rocket science.
Our basic income/outgoings is balance of trade and this has been negative EVERY month for decades. We spend more than we earn.
UK PLC as a company is spending more than it earns every month and the more we spend, the higher the GDP.
The more we spend over what we earn the more we borrow... the more we borrow and less likely we look to be able to repay that the more we pay in interest.
Given we **need** to import food we need to export to pay for it.
It doesn't matter what BS is applied by politicians the rest is just moving money internally.. like giving the kids spending money it's coming out of the wage pot or under Tory policy its the kids earing money to pay to their parents.
Any "growth" really needs to be well defined and targeted whichever party is talking about it.
Our basic income/outgoings is balance of trade and this has been negative EVERY month for decades.
Given we **need** to import food we need to export to pay for it.
Any “growth” really needs to be well defined and targeted whichever party is talking about it
Truth.
But regardless of everything in your truth bomb. Truss doesn't have a plan for growth. Starmer is hoping to pair it with a green rush (what's the downside there, if we don't get growth we've still updated our energy production for the 21st Century at last 🤷🏻 and have a good chunk if it owned by the UK) and education and training. But whatever... the unions, green campaigners, Labour, all the people who appear on the BBC and don't agree with Truss' Tufton Street pals... these are not part of any "any-growth coalition"... it's a fabrication that shouldn't be allowed to stick.
Stolen from a friend of mine:
So Liz Truss selected 'Moving on up' as her entrance music (against the wishes of the songwriter).
As another stunning example of not bothering about details, maybe she should have glanced at the lyrics first?
I suppose they would appear to sum up the mood of the nation though:
You've done me wrong, your time is up
You took a sip from the devil's cup
You broke my heart, there's no way back
Move right out of here, baby, go on pack your bags
After consulting eminent Climate Scientists, that’s pretty much the opposite conclusion to what Naomi Klein came to in This Changes Everything.
Economic growth is the absolute driver of climate change
It's true, but it also isn't.
Unchecked growth might have resulted in global warming. That doesn't mean you can't (in crude terms) create a company producing renewable energy, which is growth, and stalls/reverses climate change.
The speech seems pretty successful in setting the agenda.
Barely a mention of 'growth' on this thread up to today.
I guess they know that it's an area where their opponents may be divided.
I guess they know that it’s an area where their opponents may be divided.
I see nothing to disagree with Lucas with in that letter. I'll read the linked report tomorrow.
Unchecked growth might have resulted in global warming. That doesn’t mean you can’t (in crude terms) create a company producing renewable energy, which is growth, and stalls/reverses climate change.
This. And if we can move all our energy production to renewables, there are then many more ways to steadily grow an economy that isn't just about making and accumulating "stuff", especially when it comes to services, entertainment, leisure, science, arts, tech... the things we are good at and should be treasuring and nurturing, not neutering with a nonsensical and counterproductive drive towards deregulation, isolation and a withdrawing state to favour the sovereign individuals driving UK policy at the moment.
I see nothing to disagree with Lucas with in that letter.
Neither do I, but Lucas's...................
Professor Tim Jackson asserts that there are no politicians today who dare to acknowledge that mindlessly chasing after ever-increasing economic growth is not compatible with sustainability.
In fact, Green Party politicians have been saying exactly that for over thirty years
Doesn't exactly seem in lockstep with Starmer's..............
“To do all that we need three things:
Growth. Growth. And Growth.”
We do need growth. Mindlessly chasing it in the forms we were chasing it before the 2008 crash absolutely wasn’t sustainable. Going back to that is exactly what Truss is looking to do, deregulating the banks etc (banker bonus gap being only the most publicly noticeable aspect of that) and not only removing restrictions on new fossil fuel extraction, but rewarding those companies looking to capitalise on that opportunity taking us in completely the wrong direction. For a long period the UK absolutely relied on fossil fuels for its growth, we can not afford for that to be our future… it won’t work economically beyond a few years, and it won’t work environmentally or socially at all.
So the 'anti-growth coalition' is fighting the Tories? Sounds like another term for chemotherapy.
Truss’s economic plans have flipped how her opponents discuss the economy. From questions of ownership reform, social infrastructure provision and redistribution, they now discuss “sound money”, currency markets and debt reduction.
The risk for progressives is that these traditionally Conservative priorities take precedence at just the moment the Conservative party spectacularly implodes.
- Sahil Dutta
The dark green position on growth is we dont need it. We have plenty of stuff and money. We just need to shate it equally around. Ie some folks have multiple cars. Some folk have none. Share equally and everyone has cheap access to one.
Gross oversimplification of course but thats the basis of the dark green zero growth ideal which i adhere to.
More stuff equals more pollution
So whats Mad Lizzies next move...
U-turn on the lot?
U-turn on just the benefits stuff?
Just go all in whith the initial plan and hope the threat of removing the whip works?
Noe of the options seem brilliant for her.
And whats the Tory MPs next move...
Vote against and lose the whip?
Abstain which potentially loses the vote anyway?
Hold your nose and vote for it?
Knowing you've probably got this one chance to get rid of her and potentially get someone vaguely sensible in thats not beholden to the ERG to win back voters in the next 2 years. If you've gotta wait a full year for a VONC then thats gonna be too late.
Happy days.
Truss’s economic plans have flipped how her opponents discuss the economy.
Nonsense. That flip happened long ago. She should get no credit for that. Opposition parties have been overly concentrated on being reassuring about these issues for one reason only: (to many) British people kept voting Tory because they talked the talk on this, despite their record to the contrary. Hopefully that is shifting before our eyes, and that misplaced trust is evaporating away from the Tories.
And whats the Tory MPs next move…
Vote against and lose the whip?
Unless they represent a constituency with a very large Tory majority they stand to lose a lot more that whip if they back her plans.
And she doesn't need to do a U-turn on benefits at the moment. She can just confirm that they will rise in line with inflation, which is what she is under pressure to do.
Nonsense. That flip happened long ago.
Well it's obviously not an opinion which you share with Sahil Dutta.
However less than a couple of weeks ago the Labour leader was talking about ownership reform, social infrastructure provision and redistribution.
And yet the main topics of debate currently appear to be “sound money”, currency markets and debt reduction.
I reckon Sahil Dutta makes a fair point when he suggests that there is a risk for progressives that these traditionally Conservative priorities take precedence just when the Tories are finding themselves up Shit Creek without a paddle.
Well it’s obviously not an opinion which you share with Sahil Dutta.
For sure. I don’t. And considering how often some posters been complaining about how some opposition politicians have been using this language since at least 2019, I doubt anyone else here does either.
However less than a couple of weeks ago the Labour leader was talking about ownership reform, social infrastructure provision and redistribution.
Well, there you go. First chance after Truss has become PM, and look what Labour are talking about. They were focusing on all the stuff Dutta was talking about for two years before she became leader. That’s not because of her, but because they were trying to reset the public’s negative perception of them on four big issues (handling gov finances, supporting Britain, not going back on Brexit, mistrust of the previous leader) before they could move on to starting to present the real heart of a Labour manifesto. Yes, Labour have embraced the language of sound money… but it has bugger all do to with Truss floundering around, and everything to do with why people rejected them at previous elections.
I doubt anyone else here does either.
Fairy nuff. I thought you were just giving your own personal opinion.
Launching the Northumbrian branch of the AGC....
Our motto (nicked from Yorkshire)
"Spend nowt"
More stuff equals more pollution
I don't think growth necessarily means all that much more physical stuff.
I've ordered one of those AGC t shirts. Proud to be one of the AGC scum presumably now I'm anti UK and anti patriot
I guest blame the people who keep blindy voting Conservative.
They are the last people who have a right to complain.
“vested interests dressed up as think tanks, talking heads”
Worth repeating. Accuse your opponents of your own sins. Classic stuff. Projection. Her own big lie.
I’ve ordered one of those AGC t shirts. Proud to be one of the AGC scum presumably now I’m anti UK and anti patriot
Don't fall into that political trap... It's what they want... Don't give in to blind nationalism /populism flag waving crap.
Thought this might be better than a T-shirt for some
https://shop.newsthump.com/product/anti-growth-coalition-mug/
It’s what they want…
Yeah, the trap even has “trap” written on it in crayon. Reducing inequality, greening our energy, saving public services, investing in education and training, improving public transport links, looking after the elderly properly, growing public ownership… all can help create growth… the Tories want to shrink the UK, in the name of a smaller state that abdicates responsibility for improving quality of life for all of us, and lets their sponsors get on with doing whatever they want, whatever the cost.
Well, who’d have thunk it?
If anyone wants to read an account of how gloomy the mood was at the Tory conference this CNN report is a good'un.
I've been trying to stay away from the politics.. But I accidentally watched Truss on the beeb.
Jesus she's a ****ing melty, as the Scots would say.
What the chuff is she on about?
It's almost like the pm is literally taking the piss out of the UK, whilst also charging us for it.
What the chuff is she on about?
I'm still trying to work out if she's a university robotics project been let loose for beta-testing.
Her public speaking is truly abysmal - stresses on the wrong words, punctuation is just an afterthought and you can almost see the cogs whirring as she tries to reach the next pre-programmed answer.
Her public speaking is truly awful. It really sounds like she is reading a list of completely unrelated words, with no consideration of sentence structure or their meaning.
Truss' growth is not stuff it's money/the city. That's the quick buck.
In effect she's already succeeded crash the pound city makes money. Any recovery will be touted as "biggest growth since..."
Is it just me or do her arms look disconnected from her body at times during her speech? She moves like a marionette doll - I hope someone's done an edited video with strings attached to her...
As for the whole growth thing - I think she want's to return to the 80's boom years of her hero. Whilst conveniently ignoring the bust that followed and the sharp rise in inequality whilst the investment bankers etc. were riding a wave of champagne and cocaine.
As for the whole growth thing – I think she want’s to return to the 80’s boom years of her hero.
The only growth she's interested in is that of her bank account and the wealth of her backers. Everything else is irrelevant.
Is it just me or do her arms look disconnected from her body at times during her speech? She moves like a marionette doll – I hope someone’s done an edited video with strings attached to her…
As also noted by John Crace yesterday
https://twitter.com/johnjcrace/status/1577695926205956101?s=21&t=tmbJtljgbjtvz1V0qZMECw
She frequently looked towards the wings as if begging for help and her hands chopped the air as if she was a 1960s TV puppet.
As for the whole growth thing – I think she want’s to return to the 80’s boom years of her hero
She’s not interested in anything beyond the immediate. This is just a smash and grab raid now on behalf of her and Kwasi’s dodgy backers
This is pretty good
Kelvin
But regardless of everything in your truth bomb. Truss doesn’t have a plan for growth.
I don't think other than her personal financial situation she has ANY plan whatsoever.
I mean, she didn't even have a plan to address the Tory conference (unless she had some double edged I'll just lie at interviews then reverse 180 tomorrow/later)
Pretty much EVERYTHING she has said and done since becoming PM has been something that "someone" would pay for handsomely be that fracking or crashing the UK economy with a few "perks" thrown in such as bankers bonus's and 45% rate.
Everything else seems just to be busy work for her... or just an opportunity to chuck a bit more petrol on the fire down to the timing of reversals on the "perks".
Crazylegs
The only growth she’s interested in is that of her bank account and the wealth of her backers. Everything else is irrelevant.
I'm struggling to find anything else she's said or done say's otherwise.
MattyFez
What the chuff is she on about?
It’s almost like the pm is literally taking the piss out of the UK, whilst also charging us for it.
The more she demonstrates complete lack of understanding the more the market is volatile and hedge funds make a killing.
That was very good 😀
Yeah, very good. Needs more EMF though!
[ for younger members, EMF are a band, not a ‘think tank’ or NGO ]