MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
Its not tribalism
Its understanding that the Tories exist for one reason only. To keep power and wealth in the hands of the powerful and wealthy.
No, that's very much tribalism, of the straw man variety.
Itsnot dude. Its understanding reality. If i was tribal i would only ever vite for one party no matter what. I don't.
What other purposes does the tory party have?
Simply changing all the rules and having another tortuous leadership election, followed by the crowning of another halfwit by a handful of elderly racists, isn't going to appeal to those who will be doing the knifing.
Fairly well educated people too.
Lots of people fail to grasp how the domestic energy “market” works. But they aren’t Prime Minister at a time when it is a crucial issue for most of the country. If she’s not across this brief, one she is guaranteed to be asked about at this time, what hope does she have on other important but perhaps less pressing, current or talked about issues?
Oh, and the Tories aren’t asked often enough why our bills are all going up when they are claiming they are frozen (they aren’t frozen, the cap has gone up), yet they are having to borrow far more to fund their policy than if they’d adopted Labour’s that would have seen all our bills lower this winter than their plan does.
She is completely bonkers isn't she. All the shite she spouted to become leader is actually what she believes...she thinks cutting corporation tax and tax above 150k will improve wages for those in Stoke.
Mental 🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪
Tinas
Name a single tory policy that does not act to concentrate wealth in the hands of the powerful and wealthy?
Also apparently im going to be ” encouraged ” back into employment.
@tjagain It's obvious to me that future employment is a cycle tour blogger. You just need a company, a social media presence and to pay [limited] tax on your influencer and Patreon dollars.
Anyone enjoying Truss’ local radio jamboree? Radio Kent winning so far on giving her a roasting, but kudos to BBC Lancashire for stumping her when asked if she’d actually go to the fracking site.
It was quite funny listening to 'today' on the way to work.
Obviously R4 get sent a very defensive treasury secretary to interview and trot out the same cut 'n' past comments about "tackling Energy prices/Putin's war/Growth/BOE independence" and definitely not address everyone dealing with inflation/interest rates/pension funds/Mortgages...
All the while Nick Robinson is just listening in on the various BBC local stations to pick out "the best bits" of all the interviews Liz is doing because she's too scared of going on national radio, so he can re-broadcast her, on national radio...
The net result; a government that is trying to duck exposure in the media actually manages to double their on-air presence during rush hour.
Anyone offering odds on Truss still being PM in 6 months?
Radio Nottingham - "People were worried whether they could heat their homes. They're now worried whether they can keep their homes."
They just played a compilation of her ‘best bits’ on Five Live. It was accompanied by the sound of all the press officers at Tory Central Office sobbing
I like the second or so of dead air at the end of each question as you literally wait for the cogs in Lizzies head to grind slowly into motion
Eaten alive by local radio presenters although they may have all got together beforehand to lay the traps.
Anymore radio silence and the nuclear war protocols would have kicked in. Haunted Dancehall anyone!
Like him or not Andrew Neal would dismantle her.
So, who will they put in place to fight the next general election? There is no way Tory MPs will let her lead them into that.
What other purposes does the tory party have?
The Yin to the Labour parties Yang, to provide a democratic alternative that proposes that the free market does things better than public ownership, that government intervention doesn't always work, etc, etc. You don't have to believe it to believe that those views have a right to exist too, and that they may well be the right ones at certain times in the economic cycle.
Does the SNP solely exist to gain more power for itself? That is their #1 objective after all. You could very much paraphrase yourself here:
"Yes the Scottish Independents realise they have to keep the rest content "
If i was tribal i would only ever vite for one party no matter what. I don’t.
And yet you're making out that the only two viewpoints anyone could possibly hold are either the moderate left or Britannia Unchained.
I can't believe Johnson will be remembered as 'well, he wasn't the worst...'
JFC
Anyone offering odds on Truss still being PM in 6 months?
On present form (ie:complete denial) I’d be amazed if she makes it through the Tory conference next week without about 200 letters going in to Grsham Brady
Hats off to Rishi for his statement saying he won’t be attending conference as ‘he wants Liz to have her moment’ 😂
A live stream of him watching her conference speech would be good
A live stream of him watching her conference speech would be good
...perhaps we could form a queue outside his house so we can peer into his front window! 🙂
Any policies tinas?
The snp also act to redustribute wealth They do like to centraluse power tho which is why i dont vote for them
Anyway back to the point. That was horrendous from Truss. I've never heard a politician floundervso badly.
Its got to have an effect on the polls and the tory conference should be entertaining
Name a single tory policy that does not act to concentrate wealth in the hands of the powerful and wealthy?
Seeing as we're talking about Rory Stewart:
Unless the powerful and wealthy you refer to are the manufacturers of locker room portacabins and x-ray machines, which TBH they probably are quite well off, Mr Wernick certainly made about £60million extra turnover from the pandemic.
Tinas
Name a single tory policy that does not act to concentrate wealth in the hands of the powerful and wealthy?
Put's kettle on.
Opens biscuits.
Acknowledges this might be quite a wait...
Anyone offering odds on Truss still being PM in 6 months?
I don't see her lasting until Christmas.
Although technically she has been in power for a few weeks, in reality it's only just over one.
It's not going well.
And suddenly this morning's media round makes sense:
https://twitter.com/APHClarkson/status/1575404800434372610
Good answe tinas. Minor bit of fiddling around the edges not a majir policy but * tips cap* 😀
TBF he resigned because he didn't want the Duke of Nonce to do that interview.
Seeing as we’re talking about Rory Stewart:
Since we're talking about Rory Stewart I decided to look at his voting history. It's pretty appalling imo but otherwise exactly what I would expect from a Tory MP.
I see no evidence that he wasn't a typical Tory MP.
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/24964/rory_stewart/penrith_and_the_border/votes
I reckon how Rory Stewart behaved when he heard the division bell rung in the House of Commons is more important than his behaviour in front of a TV camera.
Good answe tinas. Minor bit of fiddling around the edges not a majir policy but * tips cap* 😀
Since we’re talking about Rory Stewart I decided to look at his voting history. It’s pretty appalling imo but otherwise exactly what I would expect from a Tory MP.
I see no evidence that he wasn’t a typical Tory MP.
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/24964/rory_stewart/penrith_and_the_border/votes
I reckon how Rory Stewart behaved when he heard the division bell rung in the House of Commons is more important than his behaviour in front of a TV camera.
The trouble with looking at voting records is that almost all of it is either whipped votes or opposition day motions. Holding them up as being representative of an individuals views is completely pointless. If we'd had (or we get) a decade of Labour governments I'm sure there'll be a whole raft of opposition day motions with nice sounding titles for them to vote against.
If you listen to the rest is politics podcast it is a pretty constant line from alister campbell to get at rory stewart for his voting record.
"more important than his behaviour in front of a TV camera."
Funnlynuff first time I saw him was during the bad floods in the Lake District of a few years ago.
I might be mis-remebering this but I recall the the Beeb cut to him, live, and for the first minute or so he raged at the Met Office.
He appeared to blame the scale and damage of the floods on the "tax payer funded" Met Office.
🤷♂️
If you went into politics and stuck to your principals without compromise, you wouldn't make it very far or be in politics at all.
If it were 650 MP's that I 100% agreed with then it wouldn't be a democracy.
Good answe tinas. Minor bit of fiddling around the edges not a majir policy but * tips cap* 😀
TBH I expected a response based on it being the wrong drugs policy and dealing with addiction as a health issue would be more productive, my counter would have been that prison isn't the real world therefore a zero tolerance policy can be made to work at least for longer term inmates.
People seem to be socialised into the cap doffing deferential idea that political leaders should come from a tiny section of the wah wah elite and be completely remote from the electorate. We really could do with a break from the old-Etonian and PPE musical chairs.
Acknowledges this might be quite a wait…
wasn't same sex marriage part of the Cameron Govt? Marriage Act 2012/13? (whenever it was introduced)
How does that redistribute power and wealth?
He appeared to blame the scale and damage of the floods on the “tax payer funded” Met Office.
Isn't the Met Office funded from it's commercial activity?
Eaten alive by local radio presenters although they may have all got together beforehand to lay the traps.
To be fair, none of the questions I've heard have sounded anything other than blindingly predictable for the UK's PM today - that she can only (somehow!) make herself look worse when replying to them speaks volumes.
How does that redistribute power and wealth?
It probably does as much to redistribute power and wealth as the report that says prisons are safer that TINAS found. it's an example of a Tory policy that's not aimed at making the already wealthy more wealthy, which is what you asked for.
Can't wait to see the local TV interviews 😂
So the bar has been set at ‘name me any policies from the Tories that aren’t awful’
So far we have just 2…
😂
Can’t believe Liz is still defending this shit show…
The trouble with looking at voting records................
................. is that there's no escaping them.
They either reflect someone who is there to vote on their convictions, or they reflect someone who is there to tow the Party line - however morally bankrupt - in order to keep their job.
Either way, it hardly reflects well on Stewart.
So the bar has been set at ‘name me any policies from the Tories that aren’t awful’
So far we have just 2…
😂
That wasn't the question posed.
Name a single tory policy that does not act to concentrate wealth in the hands of the powerful and wealthy?
They either reflect someone who is there to vote on their convictions, or they reflect someone who is there to tow the Party line – however morally bankrupt – in order to keep their job.
That's because you're confusing politics with standing on a soap box on the high street shouting at people (or the modern equivelent, sitting behind a phone screen). Liz is currently in the process of ****ing arround and finding out that you can't just stick to your principles regardless.
Even* Starmer said this week that the (likely) next labour government won't be able to do all the things that a labour government would normally like to do. Because in the real world you don't get what you want.
*Awaits accusations that he's really a Tory.
Simon Clarke put a post out last night on his Facebook page advertising Liz's radio round. It's been taken down - the comments started off critical last night and descended into rage after her appearance.
Normally he has a loyal following of Brexit ultras.
They either reflect someone who is there to vote on their convictions, or they reflect someone who is there to tow the Party line – however morally bankrupt – in order to keep their job.
Either way, it hardly reflects well on Stewart.
That's politics though isn't it?
Give way on some issues so you can keep your job and possibly do some good in other areas that you are more committed to.
Stewart couldn't cope with the contrdictions thus he quit
That wasn’t the question posed.
Name a single tory policy that does not act to concentrate wealth in the hands of the powerful and wealthy?
Those two replies did actually answer the question as written. Granted, it was pretty obvious that that the intent of the question related to financial policies and the redistribution of wealth upwards, problem was with the question not the answers.
Stewart couldn’t cope with the contrdictions thus he quit
He didn't quit, he was fired. Probably because he was a Remainer. Precisely the same reason why he's the darling of other staunch Remainers, regardless of him being every bit as appalling as other Tory MPS.
problem was with the question not the answers.
Yup.
Stewart couldn’t cope with the contrdictions thus he quit
It was more that he put up with the contradictions to get himself in a position to possibly become leader, when that failed, then he packed it in.
Stewart couldn’t cope with the contrdictions thus he quit
I'm confused, he quit rather than serve Boris, surely we can all agree that is a demonstration of sticking to (some) principals?
A d as the Nuremberg trial showed "I was just following orders" is no excuse.
Godwins law I win
Except the point you just made was that he refused to follow? More Oscar Schindler than Claus Barbie?
Talking in general to about Stewart
A d as the Nuremberg trial showed “I was just following orders” is no excuse.
Fun fact; "I was just following orders" (Superior orders) has been used successfully as a defence, they had to make special provision to stop the Nazi hierarchy claiming it at Nuremberg .
I'd imagine 'Fun Facts' of the Nuremberg Trials is a pretty short list.
Indeed.
I've just read "The Nurenberg Trail" by John and Ann Tusa. It's a really interesting read, It's one of those subjects where you think you know about it, but turns out it's more fascinating than you'd expect.
Rory Stewart is quite likeable.
trail monkey : He’s just another Public School, born to rule Tory with a despicable voting record on the NHS, Welfare and Tax.
The Difference with this one is that he was the right shade of Remain to beguile Centrists and make them believe that he was something else.
Thats a very simplified argument, If Rory voted against the government on such issues then he would be removed from the tory party.
Rory Stewart is quite likeable. I highly recommend The Rest is Politics podcast with him and Alistair Campbell. They’re both highly critical of the current government but with both of them there’s a bit of balance and good thoughtful conversation.
Yeah agreed, you don't need to have the same beliefs as he does or expresses.
Still a tory tho. It shows how debased our politics has become that he seems so good and moderate
I'm not sure he is a Tory .. not the current definition but I'm not holding his upbringing and beliefs against him but I wouldn't vote for him unless he's the best chance against a Tory.
Its not tribalism
Its understanding that the Tories exist for one reason only. To keep power and wealth in the hands of the powerful and wealthy.
Yes the one nation conservatives realise they have to keep the rest content and look after them in a paternal way but no tory will ever redistribute power and wealth in any significant way.
IMHO splitting hairs to call it tribalism or not... or split tribalism into sub categories.
To keep power and wealth in the hands of the powerful and wealthy.
This is why it is and isn't tribalism.
You probably have a different idea of "wealthy" than I do and I have a different idea to Rory and he probably has a different idea than Rishi.
The main tool the Tory's use seems to be splitting the poorest classes (as in EVERYONE earns under £10-£20M a year?) from the real wealth.
He didn’t quit, he was fired. Probably because he was a Remainer. Precisely the same reason why he’s the darling of other staunch Remainers, regardless of him being every bit as appalling as other Tory MPS.
Yep its back to Bojo getting rid of anyone who didn't wholeheartedly support Brexit,which had the unfortunate effect of draining the er 'talent' and leaving you with a bunch of numpties.
(Double post for some reason)
Rory Stewart is quite likeable.
Boris Johnson built his entire political career on his perceived likeability. It certainly wasn't his competence or attention to detail.
It's nice to have politicians who are nice, it is however a poor reason to support them.
to get himself in a position to possibly become leader, when that failed, then he packed it in
No. He knew he had no chance of becoming leader. When he entered the leadership race, he said it was to make sure someone at the hustings was telling it as it is. Which he did. He laid out a possible way through the post Brexit chaos (that didn’t include cancelling it, by the way) that his party could take, by explaining the hard work and diplomacy (and, yes, compromises) that would be required. I didn’t agree with him as regards how to deal with the change in the status of the UK, but he was engaging with reality (including the reality that he couldn’t become leader). Since Johnson got rid of MPs refusing to back him and his “plan” (they weren’t sacked for not backing Brexit, they were sacked for not backing him and his undisclosed plan for dealing with it) they have just been dealing with each other and their close vested interests, with an increasing unwillingness to deal with the reality beyond their own internal politics, and beyond Westminster… never mind beyond the UK. Where are we up to with sorting Northern Ireland… for example… and where does that leave us as regards USA and EU politicians, markets, businesses etc?
Perhaps he was trying to position himself for the job Truss ended up “doing”… Foreign Secretary and Trade Deals… but I doubt it… not impossible though. It’s a job he could have done better than most in his party at that point… you don’t have to want the Tories to be in power to see that.
The interview with him on the other thread shows that he is a Tory, just one that is not nakedly neo-liberal. He himself says that he is more into tradition and the environment and sees himself as being more on the left wing of the party than other people.
He sounds reasonable. He's educated. He's seen how the world works and probably would be able to survive a coalition government somewhere like here in Sweden or Germany, but he will have no place in UK politics. Well, not for many years.
I’ve just read “The Nurenberg Trail” by John and Ann Tusa. It’s a really interesting read, It’s one of those subjects where you think you know about it, but turns out it’s more fascinating than you’d expect.
I'm hoping for sweeping berms and not too many man made wooden features.
I don't want a Tory in charge but that's what we have.
I'd rather Rory in charge than Liz and given the shallow pool we have to choose from, what Tory would we rather have?
I’m hoping for sweeping berms and not too many man made wooden features
I’m going to ride it on my Nuremberg Raleigh
Me too 🙂
Rory Stewart seems competent..... and frankly I'd take that at the moment, regardless of the colour of the rosette they are wearing
I quite like Stewart because he seems to be about the only MP on the blue side of the houdmse not publicly auditioning for a role as a Bond villain.
Rory Stewart seems competent….. and frankly I’d take that at the moment, regardless of the colour of the rosette they are wearing
Apparently thats not good enough.
Dear god! I’ve just put that Newscast on with all her local radio interviews this morning
It’s absolutely fist-chewingly awful. She’s been invisible for 5 whole days and she re-emigres with THAT?
She’s barely sentient. The personality of a damp flannel with the empathy of a breeze block
Listen and cringe
It defies belief that someone so profoundly stupid could possibly have risen without race to be in the position she’s in
Listened to one from Lancs, where he asked her if she would go and visit a fracking site. Dead Air….
I mean, she MUST have had (I assume) the best media training available, and the best prep for those questions? She's certainly had time to reherse
Jesus, what a car crash
I absolutely can't wait for the 'Room next door' for this one...
I quite like Stewart because he seems to be about the only MP on the blue side of the houdmse not publicly auditioning for a role as a Bond villain.
he's not been an MP since the great purge of 2019.
she re-emigres
Got my hopes up for a minute.
I mean, she MUST have had (I assume) the best media training available, and the best prep for those questions?
I hope she had Jamie waiting for her afterwards.
I hope he’s frantically working something up for Late Night Mash…
https://twitter.com/spittingcat/status/1575492503049887744?s=21
As for ex-Tory MPs… at least they don’t have to pretend that anything this lot are doing isn’t dangerously damaging (ignore the evidence of your eyes and ears stuff)…
https://twitter.com/annaturley/status/1575496102073495554?s=21