TJ and Cougar are AI bots – it’s part of Mark’s website upgrade master-plan to drive forum hits.
No human could keep up with their posting rates!
TJ is having a break from cycling, holed up in a hotel room with nothing but his phone. God help us 😉
The ones who are racist or selfish though, how would you suppose they’re more likely to vote?
More likely, perhaps, but that doesn't mean that some rascist/selfish/bigoted in other ways people don't vote Labour
Surely if somebody doesn’t believe that voting Tory will result in longer waits for an ambulance they can’t be accused of voting for it.
In isolation, I agree. But if they've had it explained to them, then they reject that new information because it doesn't fit with their established beliefs and vote for it anyway then... well.
More likely, perhaps, but that doesn’t mean that some rascist/selfish/bigoted in other ways people don’t vote Labour
Has anyone suggested that they didn't?
There's more straw men on this thread than the Wray Scarecrow Festival.
@IHN I hope you are tweeting things like that.
I'm not, cos I'm not on Twitter. Feel free to if you want to though.
I have a number of friends and family who vote that way. Heck I’ve even given them my vote on occasions when I thought it was the best option. Almost without exception they genuinely think that the policies of the party they vote for are the best for the country and not just best for them.
This.
But if they’ve had it explained to them, then they reject that new information because it doesn’t fit with their established beliefs
One of my old mates is a paranoid stoner. Every time I see him he 'explains to me' why lizards etc... I listen to him because I like and respect him and find his discourse interesting and engaging. But I still reject the new information.
If people are rejecting 'the new information' that you are EXPLAINING TO THEM, perhaps you're not being nice or charming enough. Assuming your information is 100% true.
Listening to BBC World at One coverage of PMQs... they're really bigging up Truss' first appearance. Quite magical really. I'd suggest listening to it unedited yourself, rather than their clipping and comments.
The ones who are racist or selfish though, how would you suppose they’re more likely to vote?
Just asking the question betrays bigotry, whatever the answer the only acceptable response is to judge people as individuals.
There is currently an avalanche of knife crime in Croydon, it is almost invariably black on black, I have even had the misfortune of witnessing it myself.
Now I'm not saying that white people never commit violent crime but, you know, a lot of black people do.
Is that ^^ comment acceptable? Do you judge an individual based on the behaviour of others, especially if that behaviour is prevalent?
I don't come to a conclusion of someone's character based on the character of others. So your question is pointless.
Listening to BBC World at One coverage of PMQs… they’re really bigging up Truss’ first appearance.
Sounds like typical BBC to me, with their right-wing bias!
Actually I was having first lunch. Now having second lunch.
In my relative's case she certainly did know becuase i had shown her direct quotes from rees mogg calling for an end to the NHS prior to the election.
She still voted tory and for rees mogg. She just refuses to listen to anything than is not in the daily mail
In my relative’s case she certainly did know becuase i had shown her direct quotes from rees mogg.......
You sound like fun at family gatherings!
You sound like fun at family gatherings!
I think he's telling porkies. Nobody's that weird 🤣
i had shown her direct quotes from rees mogg calling for an end to the NHS prior to the election.
She still voted tory and for rees mogg.
She probably wouldn't have done if you'd not spoken at her.
You don't believe it?......"Here comes Jeremy with his quotes from Rees-Mogg"
She probably wouldn’t have done if you’d not spoken at her.
Actually, I take that back. Someone like JRM is always going to attract votes from some people. He's quite the anachronism. I suppose he appears to some to represent a 'high society' old school upper class of which they aspire to. He could eat babies for breakfast but he gets a vote because he uses received pronunciation.
Just asking the question betrays bigotry
Nonsense.
People are going to vote - if they can be arsed at all - for the party that they believe (rightly or wrongly) reflects their own views. To suggest that isn't 'bigotry,' it's common sense. Do you suppose that many people who voted Remain in the referendum were avid UKIP supporters or EDL members? There may have been some of course, but surely a statistically insignificant number.
There's 67 million people in the UK. Get back to us when you've asked them all individually and we'll compare notes.
There’s 67 million people in the UK. Get back to us when you’ve asked them all individually and we’ll compare notes.
Good point - it seems like an enormous task.
Probably best to rely on lazy stereotyping and prejudice then.
People are going to vote – if they can be arsed at all – for the party that they believe (rightly or wrongly) is the nearest to reflecting their own views.
It's a small but important distinction. Few people have the choice of voting for a party with whom they agree on everything, or, indeed, much. Most people, I think make a least-worst-choice decision, and in the last election a lot of people held their noses and picked one of two, frankly terrible, options.
There is currently an avalanche of knife crime in Croydon, it is almost invariably black on black, I have even had the misfortune of witnessing it myself.
Now I’m not saying that white people never commit violent crime but, you know, a lot of black people do.
Is that ^^ comment acceptable? Do you judge an individual based on the behaviour of others, especially if that behaviour is prevalent?
No that comment isn't acceptable.
No I do not - otherwise I'd despise everyone that looks like Tory.
Most people, I think make a least-worst-choice decision
Nail on head.
I was going to start a new thread but seemed pointless..
[b]How many of you have voted for other parties rather than your default option?[/b]
• I'll be open and say I've voted Conservative for most of my life.
• I mainly vote Lib Dem in local elections as they can make a difference locally.
• I voted for Blair during his height as I thought he was doing a good job - then it all came crashing down! 🙂
• I even voted for Corbyn in the 2017 election as I felt it was worth trying a complete change of tack at the time.
...as it stands now I really don't know who I'd vote for. Not enamoured with any party.
How many of you have voted for other parties rather than your default option?
The last time I voted in a general election, my constituency was a very tight two-horse race between Labour and Conservative. Any other option would have been a wasted vote. I didn't vote for a party, I voted against one. I'd have held my nose and voted UKIP if it was the best chance of taking a seat from the Tories.
I have considered voting Plaid Cymru, but it's not an option for me in my constituency as it's either Tory or Labour. I can only see myself voting for left-wing parties because that aligns with my fundamental beliefs and Tories are the opposite to that. I would possibly vote Tory if I thought it was in the best interests of the majority of people who need help, but that seems unlikely.
(and yes, this probably should've been another thread.)
SNP, because Green is a non-starter around here. It's either SNP or Tory, and that's not a difficult choice to make.
How many of you have voted for other parties rather than your default option?
92 - Tory (I was 18, it was my first vote, I'd known a Tory government pretty much my whole life and lived in a very Tory constituency)
97 - Tory (I didn't quite buy the New Labour thing)
Every one since - Lib Dem, as they, in Cougar's words, were the closest fit to my views
Next one - god knows.
A number of my family are certain as to why hospital waiting times are up, GP appointments are hard to come by and ambulances are hours late.
It's because we've wasted time and resources on something that's no worse than the flu, there are too many foreigners using the NHS, illegal immigrants come here just to use it but don't contribute, NHS staff are lazy/need to work harder, too many managers/not enough staff and they're always off on another equality/diversity course rather than doing their jobs.
Totally pointless for me to ever argue as they already 'know' the causes.
If people raise a specific issue I restrict myself to advising they make a formal complaint to the relevant Trust and writing to their GP.
Seems to me that not many people are open to change; it's totally pointless trying to change their minds - they don't change and I just put my blood pressure up.
How many of you have voted for other parties rather than your default option?
I consider the Greens my natural home but #GTTO is the only game in town at the moment, so I vote Labour at the mo.
SNP, because Green is a non-starter around here. It’s either SNP or Tory, and that’s not a difficult choice to make.
Sounds like we might be neighbours! I'm in same position. My constituency has previously been a Lib Dem seat as well but not since they imploded following coalition.
Seems to me that not many people are open to change; it’s totally pointless trying to change their minds – they don’t change and I just put my blood pressure up.
People can change - that's how we end up with different governments, after all - it's just difficult to do. The right-wing aligned press are better at it than anyone else, but they do it unscrupulously. It is possible to do it ethically, in my view.
Weird there's no chat in here about PMQs. Was it because Truss was actually quietly impressive and didn't quite fit the charicature described by many on this thread? She was everything Johnson wasn't: Direct, to the point, clear about what she believes and confident enough to make her case. Starmer has got real problems if this is going to be the norm.
People vote for parties led by people of whom they have a favourable opinion. That's how Johnson got in. Nothing to do with policies. In fact, they don't even talk about policies much any more. "Levelling up" or "Building back better" aren't policies. How exactly are you going to level us up?
I think my first couple of GEs got a Tory vote because I was either young or had a business. I grew up a bit after those and the Blair years and voted Lib Dem because it was something that I could justify to myself. I kept it that way until I left the UK.
Here in Sweden I have tried to vote for what is best for the country and that does not include voting for the people that want to take it down the path that the UK or US took. We have an election coming and I shall vote to both keep the fascists and the neo-liberals out of office as much as I can.
Weird there’s no chat in here about PMQs.
Apart from where it was discussed earlier?
I'm not discussing it mostly because I didn't see it.
Was it because Truss was actually quietly impressive
I highly doubt it.
Suella Braverman sounds special doesn't she?
One ally said she was unafraid about taking on vested interests. “She will be Priti on steroids. Watch this space,” he said.
Note that was said by an ally, not an enemy!
I strongly suggest reading this if you want an idea what is on the horizon. Just grab a vomit bowl first, you will probably need it.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/sep/06/suella-braverman-home-secretary-set-to-take-even-harder-line-on-migration
I watched PMQs on catch-up earlier
She was as wooden as usual and didn't perform very well at all. No doubt the braying backbenchers loved it.
Was it because Truss was actually quietly impressive
I listened to the whole thing. Forgetting about policy, morality or ethics and focussing purely on the pantomime performance of PMQ's, I thought she did quite well. Starmer failed to land any real blows on her.*
*do not interpret this as me supporting her. I would rather eat my own testicles than support her or her party.
People can change – that’s how we end up with different governments, after all – it’s just difficult to do.
I think most people who change do so because of their own observations, and a very small number are persuaded to change by effective argument.
I don't really fall into that category as a persuader so I'll leave it to someone else.
I really don't think the views of many of my family could be changed by anyone though.
I’ll be open and say I’ve voted Conservative for most of my life.
What made you stop being an uncaring racist? 😉
As a Morning Star reading communist all of my adult life I supported the Labour Party up until the point of New Labour, I then switched to the Liberal Democrats hugely supportive of Charles Kennedy's leadership. I immediately abandoned supporting the LibDems when Nick Clegg lurched them to the right, then voted Green.
Momentarily I returned to supporting Labour under Jeremy Corbyn, I'm now back to voting Green.
I don't hold CP membership (although I will attend activities) as party discipline requires members to support and vote Labour - I simply won't do that. Ironically I have always been an LP affiliated member through my trade union, although I could of course opt out of paying the political levy. In fact at one time I even did a small monthly donation to the LP through standing order despite not being an individual LP member.
the-muffin-man
Full Member
I was going to start a new thread but seemed pointless..How many of you have voted for other parties rather than your default option?
Growing up Labour would be the default 'tribal' vote, so voted labour in 97 as a first vote, then voted Scottish Socialist in the early 2000s but they turned out to be a shambles. Since then, I've moved on to voting SNP and lately Green as 1&2 in the scottish elections, SNP in westminster.
Latter day votes are more related to voting against the union mind you than any great support for the SNP. Saying that I do find the SNP vastly more palatable than the Tories or Labour.
My last council election vote was SNP, SNP, Green, Labour, Labour, Lib Dem.
What made you stop being an uncaring racist? 😉
Never been racist - I'm arsehole'ist - race is irrelevant, arseholes come from all backgrounds! 🙂
Main conservative allegiance came from my parents so up to my mid 30s that was how I voted. I'm your typical centre-ground floating voter now though.
How many of you have voted for other parties rather than your default option?
I've voted LibDem or Green most my life, depending on the voting system and chance of my vote counting. Even became a LibDem member when Kennedy was leader. Voted Labour in 2017 & 2019 though. I'm now helping out local Labour candidates beyond just voting for them. The UK is sliding towards something very unsavoury, year by year, and just voting isn't enough. Like Ernie I'm not becoming a Labour Party member, because I have and will support other candidates for other parties in other seats... notably I always donate to Caroline Lucas' fighting fund, and will continue to encourage those I know that live in her seat to vote to keep her in parliament rather than replace her with a Labour MP.
Truss was actually quietly impressive and didn’t quite fit the charicature described by many on this thread? She was everything Johnson wasn’t: Direct, to the point, clear about what she believes and confident enough to make her case. Starmer has got real problems if this is going to be the norm.
Yep
Forgetting about policy, morality or ethics and focussing purely on the pantomime performance of PMQ’s, I thought she did quite well. Starmer failed to land any real blows on her.*
*do not interpret this as me supporting her. I would rather eat my own testicles than support her or her party.
Yep
Was it because Truss was actually quietly impressive
Certainly not this, but she made a refreshing change from the "cheeky schoolboy" character Johnson played. I still want to slap her backbenchers silly with their stupid moos of approval.
My first vote was the general election of 1983. Apart from the few years when I was out of the country I've voted in pretty much every election (national or local) and referendum since as I'm one of those old school "voting is your civic duty" types. In that time I've voted (in no particular order):
Conservative
Labour
Lib Dem (or whatever they were called at the time)
Green
SNP
Scottish Socialist
I guess you could say I'm a floating voter 🙂
With the possible exception of the BNP I don't think people who vote for any party are inherently bad. Different parties seem to offer different solutions to the same problems and you just have to pick the one that you think make most sense in the context of that particular election.
