MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
https://metro.co.uk/video/liz-truss-denounces-monarchy-resurfaced-clip-2734899/ lets hope the media really go to town on her about this
If you’re going to quote numbers, best they’re accurate.
I did, £40k gross equates to £2573 net take home, £457 tax and £302. Unlike TJ who's plucking numbers out of the air I actually checked before posting. It's also not in the top few percent of salaries and when taken as household income, be it via one or two earners it brings it below average once again blowing TJs assertion that furlough disproportionately benefited the well off out of the water.
Talking about employers etc. is not comparing apples with apples. Even the lower paid who were eventually made redundant (many fewer than were expected) managed another 18 months on 80% of their wages which was a lot better than being on UC plus 20 quid. The Tories have screwed much up but furlough was one thing they generally got right.
£2500 is 80% of the (EDIT) take home wage not the whole wage, not everyone received this as they didn't earn in excess of £44,000 before furlough.
I’ve got nothing more to back this up other than who I talk too, but has Liz Truss got a women problem?
Nearly every woman I’ve talked to has said ‘Liz Truss, can’t bloody stand her’. No matter their political background.
Most blokes have been more on the ‘can’t be worse than the **** we had before’ comments.
Re Furlough - it wasn’t perfect - perhaps they should have run it through a few focus groups, trialled it in a few areas, met up again, do a few more trials in a few more areas.
Gone all over it again, decided 82% of £2435 was a better figure, then tweak it a bit more.
At normal government speed we’d still be tweaking it now!! 🤣🤣
The government did tweek the furlough scheme, several times. They didn’t prioritise the low paid then. The more well off, who were receiving more furlough money, ideally wouldn’t have been living pay cheque to pay cheque the way poorly paid people are forced to. Anyway, I haven’t read much about Truss being key to that policy in any way. Shall we move on?
earnings do not equal “well off”
disposable income equals “well off”
So if I mortgage myself to the hilt or take out an expensive loan or payment plan so I can have an expensive car, leaving me with no disposable income I'm no longer well off? 🤣
t’s also not in the top few percent of salaries and when taken as household income
But were not talking about household income, we're talking about straight up salaries.
And stop talking about median wage ffs, that's literally just the middle between the highest paid person and the lowest paid person in the country, if you're going to try to talk statistics at least get the terminology right.
I did, £40k gross equates to £2573 net take home, £457 tax and £302. Unlike TJ who’s plucking numbers out of the air I actually checked before posting. It’s also not in the top few percent of salaries and when taken as household income,
But you forgot the 80% bit. So to receive the 2500 per month you need a salery of 50 000 pa which most certainly puts you amongst the well off
So if I mortgage myself to the hilt or take out an expensive loan or payment plan so I can have an expensive car, leaving me with no disposable income I’m no longer well off?
I agree with your comment about the car but regards housing it's not straight forward.
Sometimes inflated housing costs are unavoidable, people have to live in certain areas because of their jobs.
Higher salary - higher mortgage - less disposable income.
£40k gross equates to
But you forgot the 80% bit. So to receive the 2500 per month you need a salery of 50 000 pa which most certainly puts you amongst the well off
So technically you really need to look at median wages.. because 'a few' well paid skew the mean considerably.
Even then this is still missing a lot as it's usually only known/quoted for income tax payers...
I agree with your comment about the car but regards housing it’s not straight forward.
Sometimes inflated housing costs are unavoidable, people have to live in certain areas because of their jobs.
Higher salary – higher mortgage – less disposable income.
This isn't China... we do have some say in what jobs we do or even having a job at all even though it often feels like we don't. In other words there are other sources of income than PAYE employment ...
Reason I'm saying that is I've said that myself and been trapped by it.
In other words there are other sources of income than PAYE employment
There is but not for everyone.
So technically you really need to look at median wages..
Once again, no, we don't. You have that arse about tit. The median is literally the middle of a data set and takes no consideration for the distribution of that data. That's fine for calculating door heights but not when considering the wage that most people are on. For that you want the mode.
https://differencecamp.com/mean-vs-median-vs-average/
@gobuchul Yeah I'm aware housing is a different argument, I know a couple of doctors in exactly that situation you described. But consider this, are they or are they not earning more than someone on minimum wage with the same housing requirements?
I wouldn't consider them well off relative to myself but next to someone on minimum wage or zero hours I would. Which is the point being made here.
gobuchul
There is but not for everyone.
That depends how you mean "for everyone".
Can ALL of the British people of employment age all be otherwise making a living OR can "EVERYONE" (most) of those in salaried positions do something else instead?
Obviously if we have a civil service then salaried positions seem fairly compulsory or at least difficult to think how these position might otherwise be done... however whilst not everyone can just quit and do something else simply because we would have no civil service doesn't mean those individuals can't as individuals.
My point really is about the mindset, I'm not saying everyone should. I'm just saying it's an option most of us have been conditioned not to see or consider.
I’ve got nothing more to back this up other than who I talk too, but has Liz Truss got a women problem?
Nearly every woman I’ve talked to has said ‘Liz Truss, can’t bloody stand her’.
She has a bit of an issue with her presentation and delivery style that has a swatty school girl vibe to it that maybe gets under women's skin more than mens maybe. She's obviously aware of it and tries to suppress it but its pretty baked in. I've noticed in radio interviews during the campaign she starts with a deeper voice (with echos of the voice Thatcher had to be taught to use early in her poilictal career to stop her sounding like an angry head teacher) and a more measured international but it starts to slip after a few minutes and she's back to that risible 'pork markets!' thing.
Compare Truss' and Johnson's speeches in parliament just now. He'd have made so much more (for himself) out of this period than she will, if he'd still been PM. Don't get me wrong, that skill is dangerous, I'm glad he's moved on, but Truss doesn't have any of that (fake) connection to the listener/watcher that he does (nor do many other politicians, that's not just a dig at her alone). Starmer's speech fell somewhere between the two, but closer to Truss than Johnson.
May's speech also head and shoulders above Truss' effort. Theresa May!
I’m glad he’s moved on, but Truss doesn’t have any of that (fake) connection to the listener/watcher that he does
The wall she'll hit is that she's courted Johnson's supporters in the campaign. What brought Johnson down was his lying but that wasnt a problem for his supporters it was to just a problem for everyone else. Johnson's fans liked his lies not just in the end but in the beinging - he got the job not by telling lies and getting away with it but by telling what were obviously lies - it didn't matter to them that he was lying because the lies were all things they wanted to hear. Having got in post with their support what they're not going to get from Truss is the lies they want.
I see from my Apple news feed that Liz Truss is tackling the most important parliamentary issues. Ties, bringing back ties. If you’re going to get caught fiddling expenses or watching porn in the house, then by god, you best be wearing a tie whilst doing it!
If you’re going to get caught fiddling expenses or watching porn in the house, then by god, you best be wearing a tie whilst doing it!
Im all for it, anything that makes it easier to choke the ****ers is a win in my book
Ties, bringing back ties.
As long as she's going to wear one as well, I'm all for it. If it's only for blokes... forget it.
Watching Theresa May was a reminder that she faced greater opposition from her own party than from across the aisle. That's not a dig at Labour, as both May and Labour actually had the interests of the country in mind at a very testing time.
That she couldn't handle the bunch of lying vandalistic fascists sat behind her is not a dig at her either.
To be fair, why should she know how to curtsy? It’s ridiculous that anyone should curtsy, never mind the PM. There will be plenty to mock her for, but not this imho.
That IS pretty funny, though. 🙂
Well Jeremy Corbyn caused a national scandal which outraged the Nation, or at least the right-wing press, when the terrorist-loving dyed-in-the-wool republican refused to bow before Her Majesty. Despite protocol and convention not requiring him to do so.
So I'm not sure why Liz Truss should get away with her lack of reverence.
https://www.****/news/article-4625262/Corbyn-risks-row-not-bowing-Queen-State-Opening.html
2 soups?
I bet Lizzie is loving being compared to Mrs Overall 😂
To be fair, why should she know how to curtsy? It’s ridiculous that anyone should curtsy, never mind the PM. There will be plenty to mock her for, but not this imho.
I'm 57 and I can remember girls at my junior school being taught to curtsy while we were taught to bow.
I think that might have been just your school or teacher.
Edit: Or was it in relation to the school play?
Well Jeremy Corbyn caused a national scandal which outraged the Nation, or at least the right-wing press, when the terrorist-loving dyed-in-the-wool republican refused to bow before Her Majesty. Despite protocol and convention not requiring him to do so.
So I’m not sure why Liz Truss should get away with her lack of reverence.
Well, I am probably alone in my defending her here, but I defended Corbyn back then and hence I would defend her now.
To be fair, why should she know how to curtsy? It’s ridiculous that anyone should curtsy, never mind the PM.
She had the whole summer to learn! If you're in the running to be PM, then you should factor in that you might have to meet the Queen (now King) at some point...
I think that might have been just your school or teacher
Possibly, although my wife was taught too and she was educated in Newcastle not West Yorkshire.
Well Jeremy Corbyn caused a national scandal which outraged the Nation, or at least the right-wing press, when the terrorist-loving dyed-in-the-wool republican refused to bow before Her Majesty. Despite protocol and convention not requiring him to do so.
So I’m not sure why Liz Truss should get away with her lack of reverence.
She can barely walk properly, but that is not what is required from a PM. Attack her for: suggesting people don’t work hard enough, regional pay, fracking, backing Johnson, …
Well, I am probably alone in my defending her here, but I defended Corbyn
But did you also defend Corbyn when he caused a national scandal for not bowing "deeply enough" at the cenotaph?
But did you also defend Corbyn when he caused a national scandal for not bowing “deeply enough” at the cenotaph?
I’m not sure why you’d need to ask, but yes. In case you’re curious, I defended Michael Foot when he wore a jacket that didn’t meet some people’s standards.
Anyone got a thing for her?
But did you also defend Corbyn when he caused a national scandal for not bowing “deeply enough” at the cenotaph?
It strikes me your problem isnt with Truss but instead with the hard right press and their complete lack of any real respect for the monarchy or other symbols such as memorial day instead just using them as handy weapons as and when.
Best demonstrated by their outrage at Corbyn not doing that claimed deep enough bow but being completely silent when Johnson turning up with a clear hangover looking like a sack of shit
Truss curtsey is just the same. She has better things to be doing with her time than practicing that crap (sadly it doesnt seem she is using her time better but...) so the only reason to care about it is next time the hard right press make a thing about some Labour or other person allegedly failing to curtsey/bow deep enough ask why they didnt get upset this time round.
But did you also defend Corbyn when he caused a national scandal for not bowing “deeply enough” at the cenotaph?
Many of us did. And we also pointed out the double standards in the media about scruffy Johnson.
I don't hate truss as a person but I do hate her for being a figurehead for so much that is destroying society. The fact that she appears to shift her red lines is the worry for me. The government no longer governs for the betterment of the country or the people, just for its own continuence. We are in the situation that we need a government of all sides for the betterment of the country.
strikes me your problem isnt with Truss but ....
Many of us did.
I'm sorry, I thought that I was making it very obvious that I was taking the piss out of the right-wing press when I referred to Jeremy Corbyn as a "terrorist-loving dyed-in-the-wool republican", apparently not.
No I don't have a problem with Liz Truss's curtsy. Nor do I have a problem with Jeremy Corbyn's ability to bow.
And I don't think Corbyn is terrorist- loving, quite the opposite in fact.
Careful now Ernie, they need their targets. Otherwise they might start thinking for themselves, and God knows where that might end 😯
^^ That is actually pretty good!😁
It's like watching a badly animated NPC. Any second now she's going to get stuck on some furniture and then ragdoll physics herself into orbit.
Is this the thread to discuss the idiots in her cabinet?
Anyone else seen Bravermans stupid "zero boats crossing the channel" target and picking a fight with civil servants over home or hybrid working?
Just sheer stpidity but also an example of why I thought the incompetence of these people actually mean that they are less dangerous than a competent person as they will dissapate energy and political capital on nonsense leaving less to do damage with
Sadly we are seeing a trend where the employers are now trying to go back to pre pandemic and having everyone working in the office, typically under the excuse of 'better collaboration' whereas in reality it is because they don't trust their employees but obviously can't say that.
How soon we seem to forget the benefits of home working with improved work life balance, zero commute time but same overall hours worked all because the employers never really liked it.
TJ I read the fight with civil servants over home working as an attempt to promote the notion that it's lazy civil servants causing a failure of basic government services rather than 12 years' of conservative incompetence.
Our family has recently dealings with the DVLA, hmrc and DWP for various things.
6 months for a driving license renewal vs 2 weeks previously
4 months for a tax refund vs 4 week expected
4 months for a disability payment vs 10 week max quoted
It's falling apart and they're shifting blame. Not to mention the NHS etc
It’s falling apart and they’re shifting blame. Not to mention the NHS etc
I think it’s time to stop saying that things are falling apart and acknowledge that things have fallen apart. The NHS is not ‘on its knees’, it is in dire need of CPR!
Get rid of this government and pursue them for wilful harm to the country.
Sadly we are seeing a trend where the employers are now trying to go back to pre pandemic and having everyone working in the office, typically under the excuse of ‘better collaboration’ whereas in reality it is because they don’t trust their employees but obviously can’t say that.
See also the link between ownership of London office property and wealthy Tory types.
It’s falling apart and they’re shifting blame.
And preparing for increased outsourcing opportunities.
Government positions still being announced… grim one for the teachers here…
https://twitter.com/bmay/status/1568974976119627776?s=21
As a teacher, that worries and scares me in equal measure.
6 months for a driving license renewal vs 2 weeks previously
4 months for a tax refund vs 4 week expected
4 months for a disability payment vs 10 week max quoted
Yep, bought a car in February and the log book still has not arrived. Oh, and I rang up about a tax refund I'm owed only to be told my employers have not submitted the required form yet and it was late. Spoke to employers who sent me a copy of the form which had been submitted in June.
As a teacher, that worries and scares me in equal measure.
Yup, there isn't much evidence based on the make up for the current Cabinet that Liz Truss's premiership represents any improvement on Boris Johnson's. In fact all the evidence suggests the complete opposite:
https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/news/stoke-on-trent-news/mp-jonathan-gullis-says-wont-4641472
And yet some people have welcomed the fact that Truss will be worse than Johnson as apparently this will be good for Labour.
So perhaps we should be celebrating.
And yet some people have welcomed the fact that Truss will be worse than Johnson as apparently this will be good for Labour.
Its all just more of the same with a different PR spokesman. There will be no discernible difference
Interesting fact for the day:
Having 'worked' as PM for 2 days, then dissolved parliament for a period of official mourning for het maj (gaaaawd bless 'er etc etc), its then party conference season, which is still going ahead, so Lizzie won't actually be back in parliament pretending to be PM until October 17th
Do we actually have a government at all, in anything but a sort of weird ceremonial sense?
So when will the details of the energy plan go thru Parliament?
What about help for rural communities who use heating oil/gas and those not on mains water/ sewerage who use extra electric for those?
A lot of retired people are worrying about the above issues
6 months for a driving license renewal vs 2 weeks previously
4 months for a tax refund vs 4 week expected
4 months for a disability payment vs 10 week max quoted
Truss aside .. she certainly has no answers
I think it’s time to stop saying that things are falling apart and acknowledge that things have fallen apart. The NHS is not ‘on its knees’, it is in dire need of CPR!
Get rid of this government and pursue them for wilful harm to the country.
Well we can look back where this started and it's been a slow burn since Thatcher but actually fixing it is going to be another matter and not something is going to happen in a parliamentary term.
Where would you even start? Sack all the middle management created by Thatcher first or throw in some money to start playing catch-up or get rid of KPI's that the staff are so far from being able to hit they don't even try or get rid of the companies set up by mates to take work from public sector?
Even if a different government threw some money at it the money would only be diverted to companies who's sole purpose is to be paid over the top with tax money... if you get rid of them how do you retrain ??
The whole system is so rotten now, it's not a few bad apples ..
There will be no discernible difference
I beg to differ. Quite possibly "no discernible difference" to you binners, but the appointment of an education cabinet minister who was so vehemently opposed to extending free school meals into the school holidays suggests a serious setback for all who support progressive and left-wing welfare policies.
However if it does prove that Truss is no worse than Johnson then presumably that will be a disappointment to you? Correct me if I'm wrong but I remember you as one of the people who was looking forward to a Tory PM even worse than Johnson as it would be great news for Labour.
So when will the details of the energy plan go thru Parliament?
What, the urgent matter that's right at the top of everybody's list of things to be really concerned about?
I'd give it at least two months before anyone debates it in parliament.
Do we actually have a government at all, in anything but a sort of weird ceremonial sense?
At this point, the country is a bit like a formerly top drawer luxury saloon car with a big fancy engine and expensive gadgets, one that has been limping along in the possession of a low earning punter who bought too much car for their maintenance budget, and has now been taken to the garage to see what the funny grinding noises are... "nah, it's totally effing effed mate".
Correct me if I’m wrong but I remember you as one of the people who was looking forward to a Tory PM even worse than Johnson as it would be great news for Labour.
Allow me to correct you, as you're wrong. I was actually with you on this one comrade. I know its a rarity that me and you agree on owt, but there you go.
I agree with you that a lot of the people saying how awful she'll be, she won't last 5 minutes and what a gift for labour were saying the exactly the same thing about the laughable idea of Boris as PM. And that went well, didn't it?
I still think there's not much difference between Johnson and Truss. It's just more of the same with less bluster. More nationalist populist, culture war claptrap, just with (as you pointed out) some even worse people in key roles, ie: A health secretary who's a christian anti-abortionist.
' Twas me Ernie. The points being
1 she has none of the charm of johson so will lose Tory votes.
2 she is so incompetent thatshe will actually not do much . We already see this in her cabinet which is so crony led that even moderate tories will rebell
3 its only a choice like would you prefer botulism or mrsa sepsis. Both unpleasant and potentially fatal.
4 she makes scots independence more likely
We have been thru this before. I think you look at minutiae and see sugnificant differnce. I look widely and see no significant difference
Also playing the long game. Johnson could have won another election.. truss won't
an education cabinet minister who was so vehemently opposed to extending free school meals into the school holidays
Like most of the Conservatives then. Hardly a lone voice. They had to be bumped into it (like many things) by public figures, a groundswell of public outrage, and opposition party propositions and scrutiny. Tried gaming that to the advantage of connected companies rather than the families effected as well. We need rid of them.
And that went well, didn’t it?
He's done his best to trash his party's support. Now over to Truss to, after no doubt a brief period of renewed support, continue that trend. Neither should be allowed anywhere near the top job... the only real difference is that Johnson has proven many times that he knows how to connect with the wider voting public when the time matters, and head up winning campaigns... Truss has no record of being able to do that at all.
Allow me to correct you, as you’re wrong. I was actually with you on this one comrade. I know its a rarity that me and you agree on owt, but there you go.
Very happy to be corrected binners and apologies for misrepresenting your views. But it certainly wasn't only you TJ, there was, imo, a shocking amount of people who were celebrating the fact that things would allegedly get worse, because it would be good for Labour.
I won't name names because I don't approve of talking about someone when they are not on a thread, but there was one in particular who was filled with glee. MSP on here wrote an excellent post criticising their tasteless enthusiasm.
The one way I think Truss will be far worse than Boris is the fact that he was bone idle and simply couldn’t be arsed with any actual work. He saw himself as a sort of ceremonial figurehead. A king.
Therefore the damage he could do was relatively limited just through his own sheer laziness
If people who have worked with her are to be believed, Truss is the polar opposite, so the bonkers policies she vocalises may be in with a fighting chance of becoming reality
I see she’s talking about an emergency budget next week, straight after the funeral, specifically to drive through her tax cuts And the removal of ‘green’ levy’s (so much for Net Zero)
MPs likely to be recalled for emergency ‘budget’ after Queen’s funeral next week – politics live
Johnson would have been more than happy to leave that until October or whenever, if ever, he got round to it, after the party conferences
One good place to start would be the (re) introduction of bursaries for those studying nursing, midwifery, and paramedic training. Then you'd at least be on the way to a solution for the horrific skills shortage.
Edit: replying to Steve above. Sorry.
One good example. Truss has sacked the heid yin at the treasury. So she gets her placeman in but has at a stroke alienated the rest of the senior civil servants making co operation less likely. Lost a load of experience and it will take time for the new bod to get up to speed. This will make it harder and slower for her to achieve anything she wants to do. Counterproductive and dimwitted
binners
If people who have worked with her are to be believed, Truss is the polar opposite, so the bonkers policies she vocalises may be in with a fighting chance of becoming reality
Well the other considerable difference is she might actually believe **some** of the bonkers policies and ideology she vocalises?
I stress some... obviously she was perfectly happy to do a 180 on Brexit but I feel she is more ideologically driven to punish "people" (like Lazy Brits) over Johnson who just really wanted to reward himself (or encourage others to reward him).
How soon we seem to forget the benefits of home working with improved work life balance, zero commute time but same overall hours worked all because the employers never really liked it.
By improved work life balance do you mean sitting in the garden doing sod all with absolutely no supervision or means of disciplining. Because that's what the vast majority are up to, it's just a big con lapped up by the lazy pisstakers in this world.
Or at least if you believe a study with a total sample size of one heard second hand that's the case 🙄
See also the link between ownership of London office property and wealthy Tory types.
Surely not!
By improved work life balance do you mean sitting in the garden doing sod all with absolutely no supervision or means of disciplining.
You have no idea nor any experience of the work that civil servants are doing from home. Don't believe all that you read in the papers. Those that I know are slogging their guts out and working until the cut-off time of 7pm from a 9am or earlier start (managers had to set a time as some were working stupid hours). As with most areas some will take the piss we can afford this and it does not directly affect my nor your experience of our lives. Jealousy is such an unattractive human trait.
You have no idea nor any experience of the work that civil servants are doing from home
Took me a second read to cotton on, but squirrelking was being sarcastic. With an eloquent and assertive reply like that, have you thought about a career in politics Sandwich? 😁
@tthew Probably not a wise move on my part, I subscribe to the notion that those that want to lead the country are usually those that should not be allowed anywhere near power.
Jonny G's promotion is even more disturbing than Blair keeping Woodhead in post. At least Woodhead obsessed over things that didn't exist (60s 'liberal' teaching in the 90s) whereas Goolies could be much more damaging and he seems too thick to know his own limitations.
@sandwich c'mon man, the second paragraph was a dead giveaway!
Yes, there ARE issues with working from home but nothing that some infrastructure investment and proper performance review (and in turn effective management) couldn't sort out. It's not for everyone and I would never advocate for it to be so but for many it makes a lot of sense for economic and environmental reasons on top of the quality of life arguments already given.
he seems too thick to know his own limitations
Doesn't that just summarise the entire cabinet though, particularly the one at the top of the tree?
Thats what happens when the only factor taken into consideration when filling positions is unquestioning and unthinking loyalty and rewarding your mates for . Thats just another way in which Lizzie is just more Johnson, except she has even fewer mates than him so her 'talent pool' is an even shallower puddle
Government by nodding dog
I see that the UK inflation rate has dipped back to single digit which makes it only 0.1% more than the EU average, and considerably less than many other European countries.
I have no idea what the storm ahead might bring and remain deeply pessimistic, but when coupled with the lowest unemployment rate for 48 years this isn't bad news for Liz Truss.
Although obviously not good news for those who were hoping that things would get significantly worse.
https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rate?continent=europe
Edit: According to the chart above the UK is actually bucking the trend as in most European countries inflation is still increasing, including the EU average. If fuel prices are the cause I'm not sure why it hasn't had an affect on other European countries. Anyone know?
Food inflation rising. Home energy costs rising. Good news for people who drive for work though, petrol has dropped back down considerably.
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/food-inflation
Cost of food in the United Kingdom increased 13.10 percent in August of 2022 over the same month in the previous year. It is the highest reading since at least 1989…
A problem all over Europe though, for sure.
I know that the queen stuff has drowned out everything else but that's not the bounce truss will have been hoping for, having just promised to spend >£150bn on energy prices fix
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1569990328320491520?t=FMFJziCLG3rHfPxkmY25tw&s=19