MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
Four pages.....Shirley its quite simple? If you spend more than you earn then you are living beyond your means.....and if you don't, you ain't!
Simples!
As I said £50k per year is not well off.
Kinda depends how you define "well off" really. It's a loaded term.
Your estimated 36k pa disposable income makes you about nine grand a year better off than the median household disposable income of £27,300. So you are undeniably earning more than most. But as we've all discussed, your outgoings may be higher too. So at the end of the day you may not feel like you have any more cash in your pocket than an average punter.
Kinda depends how you define “well off” really.
maybe not living beyond your means....
Mort – £2k thereabouts
Car – £800
So, for the mathematicians that’s £2800 so far.. ok?
Food – £400
Schools – £1000
Sodding about being a human £800
And the total is ?? What d’ya reckon??
I live in south east.
Mort £1200
2 cars and a motorbike...very much south of £500 a month inc fuel.
Food £100 a week so yeah £400 a month, less I expect but only have one sprog.
School- free, £200 a month on after school club
Soddingv about being a human...not sure
£5k
Boom!
Not
"<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">Average monthly food spend for a family in the East/South East/London is £250 a month.</span>
£250 for a family of 4? £2 per head per day? Really?"
Now granted we don't have kids, but our weekly Aldi shop costs between £30-35 per week for the pair of us (£120-140p/m) , if we don't buy booze. We cook all our own meals from scratch, eat little in the way of processed junk food and have a generally pretty balanced diet. Feeding a family of 4 on double that should be just as manageable.
Now granted we don’t have kids, but our weekly Aldi shop costs between £30-35 per week for the pair of us (£120-140p/m) , if we don’t buy booze. We cook all our own meals from scratch, eat little in the way of processed junk food and have a generally pretty balanced diet. Feeding a family of 4 on double that should be just as manageable.
2 kids would turn me to drink though
So they are poor people then.
They don't have to be no. Did you look at some of the guides? You can feed a family of 4 a healthy and varied menu for that sort of cost. You just need to put in the effort of selecting the ingredients and preparing everything from scratch. What it won't allow you to do is buy overpriced ready made or prepared things and waste a lot of food by buying more than you need like most people seem to do. It won't buy expensive cuts of meat or exotic fruit and veg either.
As I said £50k per year is not well off.
It is well off, not rich though.
but our weekly Aldi shop costs between £30-35 per week for the pair of us (£120-140p/m) ,
Does that include your lunch as well? Any take aways?
I guess I probably eat too much protein and I don't do a lot of heavy carbs, so that probably puts my bill up.
I also buy a lot of stuff from the local butchers, tends to be a little more expensive and I do eat a lot of meat.
Thinking about the main meals we eat, I guess they typically cost between £5 and £10 for the 2 of us. A little more if a more expensive bit of beef/steak etc.
I reckon we spend on average £5 per head per day. Rarely eat out but get take away once or twice a month.
Quite a few on here consider £50k a year rich.
well off, yip, rich, nope. I don't think anyone is saying that.
Much better to have two incomes at £25K than one at £50k.
"Does that include your lunch as well? Any take aways?"
Typically we cook 4 portions each evening - two for evening meals with left-overs for lunch the following days.
Take aways are luxuries we have occasionally. Don't get me wrong, we don't have to have such a tight budget so frequently do spend more, go out for dinner, buy a few bottles of wine etc. What I am illustrating though is that it would be perfectly feasible to feed a family 3 healthy meals a day on around £250 a month
Mort – £2k thereabouts
Car – £800
So, for the mathematicians that’s £2800 so far.. ok?
Food – £400
Schools – £1000
Sodding about being a human £800
And the total is ?? What d’ya reckon??
I live in south east.
Mort £1200
2 cars and a motorbike…very much south of £500 a month inc fuel.
Food £100 a week so yeah £400 a month, less I expect but only have one sprog.
School- free, £200 a month on after school club
Soddingv about being a human…not sure
£5k
Boom!
Not
Big deal, that’s you and you say you live in the South East? Not London then.
Carry I’m trying to put prove my workings, I’m waiting for someone to prove otherwise 🤣
The problems with terms like "Rich" is that they are subjective and loaded with judgements.
£50k before tax would put you in the 89th percentile using the latest ONS figures (2015-2016 tax year).
So 88% of the working population earn less than that and 11% earn more.
Carry I’m trying to put prove my workings, I’m waiting for someone to prove otherwise
You what now?
I honestly think a lot of folk end up living beyond their means because they are down or even depressed. They get in to a routine of comfort buying things in an attempt to feel better about themselves. Pretty sad when you think about it.
When I’m feeling low I tend to browse the web for things I’d like to buy. Luckily I have next to no disposable income and have an inbuilt aversion to spending thanks to being born in Yorkshire.
Bikebouy, I think it’s the £21600 you spend annually on cars and school fees that aren’t helping. Don’t you also have an additional £10k for d1cking about being a human?
To be fair there is a multi-billion pound industry (advertising) whose sole purpose is persuading people to buy stuff they don't need. And then there are endless banks who seem happy to lend money to people who can't afford to borrow it. A very odd way of engineering society when you think about it.
Bikebouy your £2k mortgage payment is more than my take home pay and I live in the SE. So yes I consider you pretty well off.How you spend your income is up to you but however you look at it you could choose to have lower outgoings. I admit that in the SE mortgage payments can be ridiculous but the other outgoings are pure choice.
I have a mate who is ridiculously wealthy on paper but has very little disposable income. Asset rich money poor. He has a long term plan to retire early but in my opinion he is missing out on life. No good having loads of money and too old and infirm to enjoy. It's about getting a good balance.
Except, you know… *whispers* London voted to remain.
Besides, pretty sure London voted to remain.
Oh Lord give me strength. I know that. BUT the majority of people in the rest of the country, who are sick and tired of the Londoncentricity of UK government were given a once in a lifetime opportunity to express their dissatisfaction and have voted out of the EU.
If the UK had an enlightened view of spreading the wealth and jobs around the country instead of hoarding it all down south then we wouldn't be in this shitty mess.
<p>Oh Lord give me strength. I know that. BUT the majority of people in the rest of the country, who are sick and tired of the Londoncentricity of UK government were given a once in a lifetime opportunity to express their dissatisfaction and have voted out of the EU.</p><p>If the UK had an enlightened view of spreading the wealth and jobs around the country instead of hoarding it all down south then we wouldn’t be in this shitty mess.</p>
<p>Oh right. Well in that case if you're going to say</p>
<p>@$&*$$*@$& aaarrghhhhh</p><p>And there in a nutshell is why we have Brexit. A ruling class based in London with no genuine clue if what life is really like in the rest of the country.</p><p>Makes me so angry. And sad.</p>
<p>In reply to:</p>
<p>if you haven’t had to pay SE property prices then it’s quite hard to appreciate how difficult it is.</p>
<p>Then kindly supply a link to a fortune teller who can divine that from what you said. Because as blindingly obvious as you seem to think your statement it is it really isn't.</p>
Car – £800
Schools – £1000
Sodding about being a human £800
Wow. I'm 49 and have only ever owned two cars that cost over £800.
As much as it pains me to say so, I'm with TJ on this one.
Wow. I’m 49 and have only ever owned two cars that cost over £800
Wow. I am 50 and have only ever owned 2 cars that were under £800, and they were my first 2 cars in 1989. I like cars and used to spend quite a lot on them from age 19 onwards.
That's nice. 🙂
No mortgage and now no car loan means no debts - also means I can work part time to run around after kids and ageing parents. There's enough to get by and enough left over for the kids to enjoy their sport and hobbies, but not much left over each month, and the kids have had one family holiday abroad in 15 years.
But do you still have more cash than dash?
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To be fair there is a multi-billion pound industry (advertising) whose sole purpose is persuading people to buy stuff they don’t need. And then there are endless banks who seem happy to lend money to people who can’t afford to borrow it. A very odd way of engineering society when you think about it.
I get what you are saying, but it does come across like saying people have an inability to make their own decisions.
</div>
<div> 《p/p》
Please please please can we <get> someone who knows more that the <root>^0?5 of nada to fix this <damned> forum?
Why is this still going on?
It's not difficult. M
Ineternet forums have been Thing for decades now. 《B》 please employ a web developer who knoes how 《2》 develop webs....
Living week by week no savings but hell I,m having a good time!!!
Not really living beyond our means but by no means saving any money. Trying to reduce the means that we need to live and open up funds for things other than paying for a mortgage on an apartment that's bigger than we need. Just sold our apartment for a tidy profit, and plan to move into a smaller apartment in a cheaper location. Will still have a mortgage but it'll be somewhere between 1/4 to 1/2 the current one depending on how small we feel we can live.
Watching the Living Mortgage Free thing on Netlfix was a bit of a motivator, while we can't get rid of the mortgage completely while still living in approximately the same place and keeping the same jobs, we simply have to downsize a little to free up a big chunk of cash, so big benefit without going to the lengths of living on a barge or caravan or something similar.
Earn mid ish 20s missus a bit more...
No kids £600 mortgage just pulled some equity out to reroof and point the house.
No car finance no loans I've a few hundred on a credit card that I'm paying off interest free but it's a small amount. My biggest spend is fuel after housing costs 250pcm. My bills are about 1k a month and that includes some monies I put aside for holidays and such.
I'm not flush but I'm not skint. I'd be a bit happier with more cash but we're ok
2nd house as well with a tenant who's a goodun.
We've enough equity in our house to pay the rental off completely n enough equity in both to buy a reasonable house outright
More you earn the more you spend...... It's all relative. Though if your skint on 50k I'd look at what your frittering away. Bet it's frightening 30quid a month on Starbucks couple of hundred on booze all adds up
What I am illustrating though is that it would be perfectly feasible to feed a family 3 healthy meals a day on around £250 a month
Unless the family includes a son like mine!
I’d be a bit happier with more cash but we’re ok
This is the bit that is hard to measure. I can genuinely say I am no happier now than I was when I earned 1/4 of what I do now (gross). I have more money but it mostly just goes on a bigger mortgage. I could sell up and buy a flat outright and have £1500 spare a month immediately but not really sure I would be any happier then (probably less so as I wouldn't enjoy living in a flat)
For me, once I had enough money to cover basics plus a bit more that was all I really needed and state of happiness comes from other things.
Trying to buy happiness by living beyond your means and having things that you think will make you happier is not the solution.
The problem can be that once you get into this hole, it's a tricky one to get out of. You may need £20,000-30,000 to clear the long outstanding debts from house purchases, car purchases etc and to get them the only alternative is to pay them off slowly, which eats into your income and gives you a lot less money.
On the list above people seem to miss out on many items like pensions, holidays, life insurance, car insurance, house insurance, council tax, TV licence, Sky/whatever, mobile phones, after school clubs/lessons, petrol, etc etc.... Dont forget, for example council tax is the best part of £200 a month.
It's not always a delberate action to live right up to your means, it just kinda sneaks up on you.
But once you're there, it's a hard cycle to break out of.
My family eats around £3 a day in fresh fruit at breakfast. Lunch for 4 is £4 at best. Evening meal depends upon what it is but wiil be between £5 and £10. And is rarely repeated ina. Month. Adding washing liquid, shampoo, dishwasher tabs, toilet roll,cleaning stuff etc on a weekly basis would easily be £10. We cook everything from scratch, dont eat cereal for breakfast etc.
Thats £100 a week easy.
Thats £100 a week easy.
This as Daffy says. I once heard a quote “Good quality food isn’t expensive, its poor quality food that’s cheap”
I appreciate some have harder choices but we are the same as Daffy - deferring to quality over quantity and it adds up very quick - about £140 a week for 4 of us not including school dinners.
And what Weeksy said, it creeps up. I took loads of measures to reduce bills within the last year - but using Sky as an example - TV went down from £84 a month to £44. With no changes I saw yesterday the monthly DD is now at £58.99. Wtf.
I have a £93k mortgage, but no other debts.
At one time I was £12k in debt due to many years of reckless spending, then it all came crashing down when my son was born. I suspect I'd have been declared bankrupt had my mum not stepped in and paid off my debt out of my inheritance. Its pretty much destroys your ego having to be bailed out at 32 by your mum. I still feel ashamed.
Still skint at the end of the month though. Single income family. This time of year is hard financially as I have 2 important birthdays AND then christmas in the same month.
The thought of being in debt makes me feel ill now, which is probably a good thing.
TV went down from £84 a month
I didn't even know it was possible to pay that much for a TV sub! Not trying to be argumentative or anything I'm just genuinely shocked, I haven't had a Sky/Virgin/whatever package for over a decade now and I still thought they were £30-£40 for the top packages.
Just goes to show, it'd be easy for things to add up, I mean that's a grand a year right there on the gogglebox that you either choose to pay for or not, throw in a couple of mobiles @£40+ per month instead of a £5 sim only deal, gym memberships @£30(?) if you're that way inclined, and whatever other monthly subs you have and you could easily be 3-5k a year down before you know it.
In answer to the original question, we don't live beyond our means, we manage to save a bit each month, and our only debts are a mortgage and student load. One of us earns a bit more than national average, one a bit less, between us we're probably exactly on the avg.
We've been through years where we were living hand to mouth and still burning through previous savings in order to eat, it's amazing the savings you can make when you need to and that mentality does tend to stick for a bit, especially if you're debt and risk averse. But, it's easy to let the outgoings creep up again if you don't keep an eye on things, whatever your actual income is...
Well to be fair thats TV/Phone/Broadband - the £84 was for all channels at the time.
It is just me, or has this thread become the same argument we had about a week ago?
^ STW defined in one sentence 😉
Well to be fair thats TV/Phone/Broadband
I had assumed that, I still thought it was ~£40 all-in, maybe £50 tops :-s clearly I'm out of touch with things.
It is just me, or has this thread become the same argument we had about a week ago?
We do the same thread once a quarter, there are some T&C’s in STW that state “a thread on debt and how people spend thier hard earned cash must be raised every 12weeks”
I think a newbie is next in line for the post Xmas “I’ve spent me cash, and in loads of debt how the berjingus do I get out of this hole?” Thread..
🤣
Or it could be you?
😜👍
Wow. I am 50 and have only ever owned 2 cars that were under £800,
I think they were talking per MONTH. Which is completely bonkers.
Depends how you factor the car cost.
Lets say for arguments sake they've gone newish.
£300 a month
Insurance at £60 a month
Tax at £30 a month
Petrol at £200 a month
Upkeep/servicing/tyres at £75 a month
We're up to £650 a month for just a decent newish car doing 75 miles a day and upkeep etc....
I took loads of measures to reduce bills within the last year – but using Sky as an example – TV went down from £84 a month to £44. With no changes I saw yesterday the monthly DD is now at £58.99. Wtf.
Freview/Netflix £7
I think they were talking per MONTH. Which is completely bonkers.
I know Bikebuoy was but thought Rusty Spanner was talking about outright cost of the car. If not then I have never owned a car that cost £800 a month and can't imagine I ever would as even though I like cars they are not worth paying £800 a month for.
I know Bikebuoy was but thought Rusty Spanner was talking about outright cost of the car.
I was.
I've only owned 2 cars that cost more outright than BB's monthly payments.
It's not 'all relative'. That just absolutely boils my piss.
The £800 per month for cars is ridiculous. Completely unnecessary.
The £1000 per month for schools is a choice, if you can't afford don't do it.
From what people have said about their actual expenses, it appears that a typical family, even outside of the South East needs an income of about £40k gross to cover basic expenses.
Mortgage £1,200.00 (£200k house)
Council Tax £150.00
Car £600.00
Heat and Light £150.00
Phones/BB/TV £60.00
Food £400.00
Water £30.00
Home insurance £20.00
Life insurance £30.00
£2,640.00
That's without any property maintenance, appliance repair, etc.
Mortgage £1,200.00 (£200k house)
Council Tax £150.00
Car £600.00
Heat and Light £150.00
Phones/BB/TV £60.00
Food £400.00
Water £30.00
Home insurance £20.00
Life insurance £30.00
£2,640.00
Much off those costs seem reasonable apart from (as you state it's a family) the cost of clubs (we pay quite a lot on these as our girls both do lots of musical activities, one does horse riding and they both do athletics/swimming/gymnastics too – although I accept these are all optional), the water cost seems low (we pay more than double that for a family of four), savings accounts for further education (we save £200 a month for our two girls), we also pay £70 combined a month on eye care (contacts) and dental health plans. Fortunately we don't have much in the way of car costs as the car is paid for (and old and knackered) so that only costs about £100 a month to tax, insure and run.
the water cost seems low (we pay more than double that for a family of four)
varies massively depending on what water authority you live in.
Fortunately we don’t have much in the way of car costs as the car is paid for
I don't either but from other threads on here, a lot of people seem to think a new (<5 year old) car is an absolute necessity. Just have a look at the car lease threads.
varies massively depending on what water authority you live in.
Yeah it probably does - but over 100%????
The £800 per month for cars is ridiculous. Completely unnecessary.
Extreme bangernomics? you could buy a new car (with a tank of fuel) every month, drive it until the fuel ran out, or something fell off it, and then just get another one and sell the last one, and probably make most of your money back.
"Extreme bangernomics? you could buy a new car (with a tank of fuel) every month, drive it until the fuel ran out, or something fell off it, and then just get another one and sell the last one, and probably make most of your money back."
is that before or after a few days of missed work due to broken down car at the side of the B966 ?
Yeah it probably does – but over 100%????
Not a complete list as my water company isn't on it....
Average yearly water bills by company:
South West Water: £943
Wessex Water: £728
Southern Water: £673
United Utilities: £652
Dwr Cymru Welsh Water: £636
Anglian Water: £619
Scottish Water: £600
Northern Ireland Water: £596
Yorkshire Water: £562
Northumberland Water: £539
Severn Trent: £502
Thames Water: £440
My £800 for the car included Tax/Ins and running costs and the car loan/pcp or however you fund it.
And as said it could be one or two cars for the family.
For what it’s worth my car doesn’t cost me £800 pcm to run.
And again, my figures quotes are straw man and not relative to me or my situation.
Fairly on point though.
My £800 for the car included Tax/Ins and running costs and the car loan/pcp or however you fund it.
And as said it could be one or two cars for the family.
1 or 2 cars doesn't really matter.
£800 per month on cars is an extravagance by any means.
South West Water: £943
Wessex Water: £728
Southern Water: £673
United Utilities: £652
Dwr Cymru Welsh Water: £636
Anglian Water: £619
Scottish Water: £600
Northern Ireland Water: £596
Yorkshire Water: £562
Northumberland Water: £539
Severn Trent: £502
Thames Water: £440
Crikey - so my supplier (Yorkshire Water) is one of the cheaper suppliers too!
CBA.
£800 per month on cars is an extravagance by any means.
When you write it down as a cold, hard number, it sounds like a hell of a lot of money.
But when you cost up the 'average' cost of ownership (truely factoring in everything) on a run of the mill £7k car, which your average family has borrowed money to buy you are on the wrong side of £500.
Even if they pay for it outright, it's easily north of £300. Scary really.
A family of 4, running a second hand Ford Focus & a second hand SMax with a bit of finance would be well over £800 a month in true cost. Not what most people would call 'extravagant' - that's just normal for a lot of people (equally I appreciate it's totally unattainable for some too).
But then there are also places in the UK where you can buy a couple of houses for the same price as the aforementioned run of the mill cars.
But when you cost up the ‘average’ cost of ownership (truely factoring in everything) on a run of the mill £7k car, which your average family has borrowed money to buy you are on the wrong side of £500.
Not sure where you are getting such high numbers from?
I have a s/h Lexus I paid about £6500 for 5 years ago. Not really "run of mill" but so far very reliable and has needed little maintenance. Maybe I have been lucky?
Annual costs are about £3000 per year, £250 per month.
Depreciation £700
Tax £180
Fuel £1,500
Insurance £250
Maintenace £350
£2,980
the water cost seems low (we pay more than double that for a family of four
We have a water meter, currently below average for a family of 4 in London paying £194 a year. It surprised me too.
Which is why the financial and philosophical divide displayed so eloquently on here is unhealthy for all of us.
My car is borked again. It's Christmas. If I can't drive I'll be kicked off my course and lose my job. I can't sleep because of this, which is affecting my mental health and performance at work, my relationships, my whole life.
I've never claimed a penny and owe nothing.
There are so many people worse off than me and I've always fought and voted for equality of opportunity.
Hearing some of the attitudes displayed by people I respect undermines my faith in humanity.
Society is finished. Compassion is a luxury. Minds are closed and lines are drawn.
Put Thatcher on the £50.00 note and admit that the evil bitch has succeeded in engineering the social divide she always wanted along with eliminating the best, most worthy aspects of our nature.
Bollocks to it.
I blame the motor car and the British love affair with it.
is that before or after a few days of missed work due to broken down car at the side of the B966 ?
I see you've taken my tongue in cheek comment seriously, oops
But for those who's only option is actual bangernomics breakdowns are a genuine fear, and buying or leasing a more reliable car isn;t always an option. Back in my first job that required me to commute by car I had a crap car (bought for £300 outright) because that's all I could afford, yes breakdowns were a risk, but even paying £100 a month on a loan/pcp/whatever to have a more reliable car simply wasn't an option as at the end of each month was lucky not to be overdrawn let alone having 'spare' money for a more reliable car.
Eventually I got a job within walking distance which solved that problem, not always an option for people though so when you're stuck between the rock of having a crap car and a risk of breakdowns, vs the hard place of not having the car at all, you'll often have to take the rock.
My extreme bangernomics comment was just pointing out the extreme juxtaposition of paying, per month, what a lot people pay outright for their cars.
Not sure where you are getting such high numbers from?
I have a s/h Lexus I paid about £6500 for 5 years ago. Not really “run of mill” but so far very reliable and has needed little maintenance. Maybe I have been lucky?
Annual costs are about £3000 per year, £250 per month.
Depreciation £700
Tax £180
Fuel £1,500
Insurance £250
Maintenace £350
£2,980
You selectively only picked part of my post, if you read it all, I said average family probably financing the car at £200 a month. I've also included some breakdown insurance, and a little more on emergency maintenance. Based on 12k miles a year doing 45mpg. Excluding finance, assuming ownership for 4 years & it being worth £3k at the end, it's £333 a month excluding the finance. £500+ with the loan, a month, without really considering it.
Your costs are obviously lower as you have (had) the luxury of being able to pay for it outright. It's pretty obvious even in this thread not everyone is in the position to be able to do that. The majority of people will be financing a car in one way, shape or form.
1 or 2 cars doesn’t really matter.
£800 per month on cars is an extravagance by any means.
By whose standards ? Yours ?
I think you’re gonna find that that opinion is in the minority 🤡
As someone who's views I genuinely look forward to reading, your inability to see other's point of view is the most depressing thing I've read on here in ages.
Thanks, I’ll rein it in.
Didnt mean to offend.
By whose standards ? Yours ?
I think you’re gonna find that that opinion is in the minority
So spunking the best part of £10k a year on a car is considered normal?
That's £14k gross if your a higher band tax payer.
Non taken. 🙂
Next time you're up in Harrogate, pop over to Burnley and I'll buy you a pint. Always good to meet decent people.
Right - sod all this theoretical stuff for a minute - Rusty, what can we do to help?
Indeed, but i’m only pointing out what others actually do in my world.
Anyway, sometimes I get carried away and this looks to be one of those moments where my fingers tap faster than my brain and i’m pissing people off.
That (surprisingly to some) isn’t in my nature, so...
Sorry if this whole topic has pissed forum members off, I certainly didn’t mean to do that just wanted to point out how some other segments of society view income and spending.
I’ve stepped too far over that demarcation line and I apologise for my attitude on this topic.
I will, in future, not comment or get involved in Money threads from now on.
Just keep on being yourself Ed 🙂.
Just having a bad day - I'm supposed to be revising today, but it's probably time for a bike ride.
Give us a shout if you fancy a pint over New Year.
And it's an open invitation - we're usually in the Bay Horse in Roughlee for Britain's best pub quiz on a Tuesday.
ok will see what we can do !
Honestly, we're fine. Off for guitar lesson tonight with a mate, it's brilliant. 🙂
Be great to see you though - you Hit the Northing next year?
Couldn't make the December date (is it still going ahead?) but proper looking forward to next year. The beard is now Biblical. ☺
bikebuoy I have to say I get v confused as you do come across as a decent person and original thinker....then you come out with stuff like this.
I get that it's "normal" for some (including a sibling of mine) but for those of us who live or work with those who live at the other end of the income spectrum, so what?
Anyone who can afford that is incredibly privileged, and to not see it is utterly depressing. See also comments re Thatcher.
bikebouy reported for breaking STW rules by actually apologising for something and admitting he may have taken things too far.
WTF were you thinking man?
And it’s an open invitation
This could go horribly wrong - mass STW NYE party at Rusty's everyone - yay!! #****ter #Faceplant
Another individual I'd genuinely love to meet. 🙂
None of us come over well on here.
What's up with the car Rusty? Might be able to help remotely or put something together maybe.