[Closed] Liverpool (snigger)

Liverpool FC really is the gift that never stops giving.

But I'm not gloating too much, as I fear we'll be following in their footsteps 🙁

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/oct/08/manchester-united-losses

Yeah, I saw that too. I do think that Manyuu have stronger foundations though - just by being in the Champ's League gives them the guaranteed income I assume Liverpool thought they too would have.

I think a 16th place finish is exactly what Liverpool need this yr.

As a Leeds fan you'll know how fast it can go tits up though. Liverpool finished second by a point two seasons ago and got to a champions league quarter final. This year the best they can hope for is mid-table obscurity.

Unless they fall into the same mindset as Leeds, Newcastle and City before them ie: "we're too big a club to go down"

Help!.

Does anyone know how to cancel an ebay bid?

I placed a bid a couple of days ago on a Mickey Mouse outfit and now I'm just a few hours away from owning Liverpool Football Club!!!

It'll be interesting to see the local derby as Liverpool & Everton fight it out for the title of the "little club".

As a Leeds fan you'll know how fast it can go tits up though.

Soon after O'Leary was gone and we went into freefall. Things are looking better this year though. 4-1 up at home against PNE and lose 6-4 😯

How can a Leeds fan gloat over the demise of another club? I mean, look what it's done to Leeds; sunk them down to the 3rd division, where they've been fighting to get out of for the last few seasons. May take them a season or two to become proper title contenders in 2nd div, then the inevitable struggle to stay up even if they do eventually get back to the top flight. Meanwhile, teams like Man City and Chelsea just have millions pumped into them, making it even harder for other teams to compete. Leeds went from playing in theChampions League, to a team which may not win a major trophy again in your lifetime.

All because of money. Do you think that's good for football? I don't. The current system is unsustainable. As Binners points out; even mega-bucks Man U could be facing he same problem as Liverpool, in a short while. The Banks want their money back, and don't care which businesses fail along the way. I think the Liverpool situation will be sadly repeated throughout football. Which won't be good for what really matters, the game. Look at Scottish football; it's crap, with only two teams ever winning owt, and the inability of Scotland to produce good players, due to no money for other clubs to provide decent training facilities.

Liverpool will survive this, as they are a major global brand, which someone will be only too willing to take on. It's yer clubs like Portsmouth that will fall by the wayside. And that's not good.

Sad that football has become almost entirely dictated by money. Arsenal are one of the only clubs actually turning a profit, but they won't win owt because they are too concerned with staying alive. The price of failure is becoming too high for clubs to take risks now.

How can a Leeds fan gloat over the demise of another club?

to a team which may not win a major trophy again in your lifetime.

elfinsafety is right

and as a luton fan i can entirely sympathise

the FA is entirely unfit for purpose and should be completely reorganised, i dont think it will ever happen though

however having just had a conversation with a liverpool fan who is completely of the mindset that liveropool are too big to fail and will never go down, it would be kinda funny

at the end of the day its only football

we all laugh at other clubs demises don't we?

Not when it's due to things beyond the manager and players' control. I din't enjoy watching Leeds slide down the league. I believe football should be a sporting contest, not 'who's got the biggest transfer budget'. That a mediocre club like Chelsea or Man City can suddenly get good simply because they have unlimited funds to buy the best players puts other clubs at an unfair disadvantage. Granted, money has been part of the sport for decdes, but the current situation is just ridiculous.

Personally, I'd impose a budget cap, bit like in F1. That would put an end to ridiculous transfer fees, and limit club's spending on new players.

Greedy bastard money men probbly have other ideas though...

I din't enjoy watching Leeds slide down the league.

But the way I feel is about rivalry, not budgets or anything in the background. I want Leeds to do well, I like to see Manyuu succeed too (to a much lesser extent, but simply in memory of my dad). I don't really care why other clubs implode but really Liverpool (and a few others) should have learnt something from the Leeds' debacle.

As the article about man yoo pointed out we've lost 84 million last season (havig bought nobody), but the Glazers took 127 million out of the club in various 'fees'

So they're paying themselves to bankrupt our club. Then when they've milked it for all they can get they'll simply waltz off into the sunset. Its a bloody disgrace. And the FA should be ashamed for letting this kind of thing go on. How long do they think that they'll be able to sell their lucrative broadcasting rights if teams like Utd and Liverpool can't even field potential championship-winning squads?

You people seem to be ignoring the fact that Liverpool have been sold to a company that will pay off all of the debt. The fact that the current owners are dragging it through the court is irrelevant as even IF Hicks wins the case, RBS step in and say "where's our money?"; Hicks says "erm, I don't have it"; RBS says "ok we will take control of the company and force the sale to NESV", therefore paying off all the debt.

The current system is unsustainable. As Binners points out; even mega-bucks Man U could be facing he same problem as Liverpool, in a short while

Fred is right, As a Liverpool fan this shows us one thing that if this can happen to the greatest team we have produced it can happen (very quickly) to others including Man U.
I also didnt enjoy the demise of Leeds and I wouldnt even relish the downfall of Man U (wouldnt catch me saying that on match day) because at the end of the day its bad for football.

Probably because I have never been able to bear listening to the Liverpool fans singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone

Jealousy will get you nowhere. It is the greatest football anthem of any team. Those that hate it do so only because they don't have it.

it's just the way it is - we all laugh at other clubs demises don't we

In fairness m_f, that's a load of shite. We may laugh at other sides losses. Of course I piss myself if Man Utd or Everton screw up and lose. But am I somehow happy to see a club as great (that was hard to say) as Utd owned by Americans who call it a "franchise" in private who leverage their debt against the club and put the whole club in a precarious financial position? My fat hairy arse I am! It's disgusting. There's a permanent "for sale" sign outside every flipping club in the country - especially those hungry for success - and the board and fans get blinded by the desire for cups and champions league football. It's disgusting. It always has been.

I may have always slightly disliked Leeds and their brand of romping all over the country kicking lumps out of other teams, but did I like seeing how they were destroyed inside a decade by financial mismanagement. For sure, I didn't.

therefore paying off all the debt.

Yes but we could be docked 10 points and while I dont worry about Liverpool ending the season in the bottom 3 it does make even a mid table finish unlikely.

So they're paying themselves to bankrupt our club.

I'm amazed that these kind of shenanigans are even legal.

Its these outside buyers that are really in it for the money not the football 🙁

M Utd used to be one of, if not highest profiting clubs in football.. year after year until greedy Americans borrowed money to buy it! Now all they seem to do is pay back the interest!

Can't see it being good for football.. Chelsea and City run on big losses, and without these owners with big pockets how can that be good for the business??

Yes but we could be docked 10 points and while I dont worry about Liverpool ending the season in the bottom 3 it does make even a mid table finish unlikely.

Why would we be docked [10] you mean 9, points? The club would not actually go into administration, technically speaking.

In fairness m_f, that's a load of shite.

And I am being honest here - I wonder how many of you can honestly say you felt anything but amusement at Leeds' fate?

I didn't.

Well good on you then Fred. Clearly more of a man than I.

Whats most offensive (and there's a lot to be offended by) about the Liverpool situation is Gillet and Hicks attitude that they have some god-given right to make a huge profit.

They paid 400 million for a club that very nearly won the premiership and did well in the Champions league

They then sell half the decent players, renege on a promise of a new stadium, load the club with debt .

The club then fails to qualify for Europe, sits in the relegation zone and they value it at 800 million!!!!!

Thats like buying a car, putting 100,000 miles on the clock, crashing it into a wall, then expecting to sell it for twice what you paid for it

The sooner they **** off and take the Glazers with them, the better

I wonder how many of you can honestly say you felt anything but amusement at Leeds' fate

Me neither.

Why would we be docked [10] you mean 9, points? The club would not actually go into administration, technically speaking.

Typo,

[url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/9074311.stm ]possible[/url]

And aslo, how about if each club's owners were limited to putting in a certain amount each season. Like the F1 budget cap. Any other money could then be raised through merchandising and from the fans etc. This would still see bigger clubs have bigger incomes, but then moneys would come in from being good and getting results, not just because some Russian or Arab billionaire fancies a new plaything.

So, for eg per season:

£50 million investment
£50 million transfer budget
All other income through merchandising etc.

This way, successful clubs could be able to buy s****y new stadiums, and please their shareholders, without incurring massive debts. Plus, clubs could choose to either buy more players, or invest in training facilities etc, it would be up to them. Or buy 2 or 3 star players, or several cheaper ones. Maybe a bit simplistic but you get the idea.

And also, limit squad sizes to say 25 players per season, like the F1 engine allowance. Works in International tournaments. That way, you wouldn't have clubs buying up all available talent simply to stop other clubs getting them, and full of whole teams of benchwarmers who could be playing regular first team football for other clubs. You buy, you reach your 'allowance', you have to sell.

Just ideas. Don't see why they can't be looked at really. I believe the game would be better off for them.

even IF Hicks wins the case, RBS step in and say "where's our money?"; Hicks says "erm, I don't have it"; RBS says "ok we will take control of the company and force the sale to NESV"

I think that is what Hicks wants as he stands to lose less money if the club is taken off him than he does if it is sold (I think that's what I read somewhere).

Administration is a tantalising thought, but I'd ride Glentress black bollock naked if the RS get docked ten points. There is literally no way the prem would allow that to happen. We're not talking Portsmouth or Leeds here.

id probably agree with garry_lagger

there is so much money tied up in the sky tv rights that the fat crooks at the fa would step in and make a special case for liverpool

if they did go into receivership, get fined and start plummeting down the tables id like to think that would be enough to have the fa exposed as the useless corrupt scumbags that they are

I think it's more a case of "who's laughing now?"

There were a helluva lot of people rubbing their hands with glee when Leeds went into administration.

The "football family" wasn't paying attention then and is probably still not paying attention now - how many clubs have gone into administration since Leeds did? Far too many. Portsmouth were the first top-flight club to fall but I bet they won't be the last...

The sad thing about the Liverpool situation is that none of it is our doing. If you look at Leeds: They overreached and over=spent and ultimately paid the penalty. Liverpool, on the other hand, have been dragged into this by a couple of cowboys who clearly don't know what they are doing. The club i.e. Liverpool FC is still extremely solvent: it's only Kop Holdings, the company set up by G&H, that is in debt.

I wasnt happy to see Leeds fall from grace but I was happy to see them fall from romping League 1 and let us pull back around 20 points on them to win the league last season 😀 OTBC!

Liverpool, on the other hand, have been dragged into this by a couple of cowboys who clearly don't know what they are doing.

Finally UEFA and Platini doing something positive - http://www.uefa.com/uefa/footballfirst/protectingthegame/financialfairplay/news/newsid=1500331.html

"Probably because I have never been able to bear listening to the Liverpool fans singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone"

What's a Celtic song got to do with Liverpool?

They let them buy the club surely?

Yeah but they promised to invest loads of money for players and a new stadium. They din't do a great job on the first one (not helped by the purchases of Robbie Keane and Aquilani it must be said), and have failed to deliver on the second. The Credit Crunch hit them hard, leaving them unable or unwilling to invest the promised funds to make Liverpool competitive at the very top. Now that just want to screw as much money as they can out of the club, and bugger off. NESV do at least look a slightly better prospect.

I'm not too knowledgeable about the Man U situation, suffice that the Glazers have created astronomical debt. I would not want to see Liverpool's greatest Rivals suffer due to similar reasons, I must say. Much rather play them and hopefully win, on equal terms.

What's a Celtic song got to do with Liverpool?

Ha ha!

Nice one. Very funny! 😆

Liverpool started singing it before Celtic.

Oh, and G&H bought the club on the promise that they wouldn't put a load of debt on the club.

Sky News reporting that the FA have approved the sale, so I don't know how much difference this makes.

[i]What's a Celtic song got to do with Liverpool?[/i]

it's a "show tune" IIRC - Rogers & Hammerstein? 😉

it's a "show tune" IIRC - Rogers & Hammerstein?

Yep, I reckon you're correct there. Various clubs (Celtic being the biggest ones with a chip - no surprise there) go on about it being "their" song. But it will forever be associated with one club - Liverpool.

Look at how the HiBees have made Sunshine on Leith theirs - a Proclaimers song, and a fantastic one it is too. Makes me support the HiBees north of the border.

true, although wasn't it the Gerry & The Pacemakers' version of it that prompted the Liverpool fans to start singing it?

true, although wasn't it the Gerry & The Pacemakers' version of it that prompted the Liverpool fans to start singing it?

You may well be right...but who cares really. They've made it theirs I guess.

Ever heard the Munster rugby fans singing their song? "The Fields of Athenry"...Athenry is in Connaught FFS! A bit Irish shall we say 🙂

Sky News reporting that the FA have approved the sale, so I don't know how much difference this makes.

Aye. Not exactly sure what kind of shyster you'd have to be to fail the FA's "fit and proper persons test"

why s**** when a club is in turmoil ....love proper football fans !

Football dynasties come and go, Villa, Blackburn, Preston in Edwardian days, Bolton, Blackpool, Leeds in later days. Each could claim to be the biggest, best, greatest whatever, but they all fell off their perches in time.

It's Liverpool's time. If they spiral down the leagues so be it. If they're truly great, they'll come back like the above have.

Yes football has changed but there are two points to make. Firstly football has always changed through the years, changes to players wages, changes to the league structure, changes in rules, introduction of european football, the list is endless. Secondly, the changes happen to everyone at the same time. If some clubs are in a mess, it's simply because of poor administration and the temptation to play Icarus.

If they're truly great, they'll come back like the above have.

I think you are wrong. It would appear by your definition that clubs that become the plaything of rich Arab's are "great"
Most objective people would agree that Liverpool has in the past been as well run as any other club and better than many so its not down to poor administration as such but largely as a result of the American owners.

I think its very sad. Not least that whilst everyone s****s at the demise of clubs across town, 30 miles down the road, other end of M1 etc, businessmen and foreign sovereign wealth funds add the component parts of what was once a fantastic league into their portfolio of sports investments. All very short sighted I feel.

Next stop we'll see it transformed to a closed league with licensed franchises. FA needs a thorough shake up, I'm not even sure what its objectives are these days... chasing the quick buck it seems

I think you are wrong. It would appear by your definition that clubs that become the plaything of rich Arab's are "great"

I could be wrong, but I don't think that any of the clubs that I mentioned are owned by rich Arabs so I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

Most objective people would agree that Liverpool has in the past been as well run as any other club and better than many so its not down to poor administration as such but largely as a result of the American owners.

So it's been poorly administered by it's owners then.

But you said

Secondly, the changes happen to everyone at the same time. If some clubs are in a mess, it's simply because of poor administration and the temptation to play Icarus.

And thats not correct. The changes that have happened to Man City more recently and Chelsea not so long ago are not the same "changes" that have happened to Liverpool.
The first two have large injections of cash which has allowed them to buy some of the worlds best players and consequently become better teams. Liverpool on the other hand have not. Its therefore not a level playing field.
The point I was making is that a clubs success is largely determined by their position in the league as well as the number of trophies they win. This is directly related to the quality of the players they have which is almost without exception directly related to their wealth.

I'm not quite sure why those two exceptions are being used to prove a rule, especially as I never refered to them or tried to contrast Liverpool's position with theirs in anyway.

I'll condense the points I've tried to make.

Dynasties wane. Some return.
Changes have always occurred in football. Some clubs have adapted and flourished, others have suffered.

Liverpool are suffering.

I'm not quite sure why those two exceptions are being used to prove a rule, especially as I never refered to them or tried to contrast Liverpool's position with theirs in anyway.

But you did say

Secondly, the changes happen to everyone at the same time. If some clubs are in a mess, it's simply because of poor administration and the temptation to play Icarus

Thats what I was arguing with. anyway I agree that Liverpool are suffering but as Ian Rush said tonight "we are only 5 points way from champions league football" which is spin but accurate. Heartening if we can collect 5 points however!

Liverpool are suffering.

True, but through no fault of our own. The only reason Liverpool are in this mess is because two unscrupulous business men made promises that they could not keep.

As I said before: Liverpool FC is still an extremely solvent company, and the only debt that exists is the debt that G&H have placed on Kop Holdings (the parent company of LFC that G&H created), which they initially promised they wouldn't do.

Just heard on't radio that Man U have announced £83 million losses for this year. I spose that adds to the hundreds of millions of pounds of debt they're already in. That's mental. So it's not just Liverpool FC facing problems.

About time the FA, UEFA, FIFA et al grew some balls and addressed what is undoubtedly a significantly growing malaise in football.

Isn't that what the 9 point deduction for going into administration is supposed to address?

I agree with you for clubs that over-spend their means to try and gain success. However, the Premier League really needs to tighten up it's methods of assessing new owners. You don't see this happening on the Continent do you?

why blame gillet and hicks? the real criminal is David Moores who cashed in on LFC and is the real betrayer of the fans. I think Man U are in trouble also in the long term unless they can sort their debts.

why blame gillet and hicks? the real criminal is David Moores who cashed in on LFC and is the real betrayer of the fans.

I agree with the bit about David Moores. However, the blame for the current predicament lies squarely with G&H, basically because they saddled the club with loads of debt that they initially promised they wouldn't.

David Moores could be criticised for being naive, or even greedy, but it is G&H that is solely responsible for the debt that is currently crippling the club.

and david moores remains president of lfc!! laughable. liverpool are becoming a joke- konchesky and poulsen?? really! If the moores family really [i]regret[/i]the sale as they say, i'm sure they have the funds to but it back.

However i don't think you'll go down.

[i]
The first two have large injections of cash which has allowed them to buy some of the worlds best players and consequently become better teams. Liverpool on the other hand have not. Its therefore not a level playing field.[/i]

level playing field!, try supporting a team that doesnt know if the players can get paid this week or that has to close a stand because they cant afford to fix it or have liquidators sell off the players in the middle of a cup run

theres not much fair about modern football
ultimately liverpool going under wont change the way things are run

[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2010/oct/13/liverpool-sale-high-court-verdict-live ]a case of premature congratulation there M_F?[/url]

This made me chuckle:

12.18pm: My colleague Gregg Roughley (yes, a Liverpool fan) says: "Liverpool fans might enjoy knowing that on Margaret Thatcher's 85th birthday she'll be watching nothing but celebrating scousers and miners all day on TV."

Dirk Kuyt has snapped ligaments in his ankle. Poor Liverpool.

[i]About time the FA, UEFA, FIFA et al grew some balls and addressed what is undoubtedly a significantly growing malaise in[b]Premier League[/b] football. [/i]

Fixed it etc etc, Germany has some pretty strict financial controls on it's clubs.

I am still confused why everyone blames the rich individuals that have put their private wealth into clubs, rather than the owners who have been stripping money from the clubs, and burdening them with debt.

iDave - Member
a case of premature congratulation there M_F?

lol

its a good job the fa is so effective at running the beautiful game

if they go into receivership will the 9pts be deducted this season or next, because this season theyll surely be relegated?

I don't actually agree with deducting points from a troubled club. It appears to me that it can only guarantee future failure. If the club (any club) is crap and gets relegated they're going to have enough problems, but to add insult to injury by deducting a further 9/10 points is just going to make things worse. If the club is losing money, it's a guarantee that they'll lose even more when they're relegated.
There must be better punishments out there.

luton town fan here totally agree

how about loosing 10points for going into receivership

then a further 20 for financial irregularities after the manager claimed corruption was endemic in football leading to a wide ranging investigation by the fa that exonerated every single other club but decided luton should be punished, despite blatant evidence of all kinds of dodgy dealing from the premiership down?

The points deductions thing is to stop clubs from simply getting rid of debts by going into receivership (which many clubs were beginning to do).

The only real pain that can be put on a club is one of points deductions if they will behave in such a manner to get rid of any financial responsibilities.

Unfortunately, as has been said, it is the fans that really lose out - the owners and shareholders just move on to the next job.

So guilty until proven innocent and even then tough sh1t, that should work. 🙄

luton did indeed get shafted by the FA and was a bit like Mafia enforcers at work IMHO.
Ignored the issues completely shoot the whistle blower and no one will ever speak out of turn again.
The manager was a sexist idiot.

[i]The manager was a sexist idiot. [/i] and many other things besides!

"Liverpool fans might enjoy knowing that on Margaret Thatcher's 85th birthday she'll be watching nothing but celebrating scousers and miners all day on TV."

This pleases me. 🙂

5.21pm: Judge rules that anti-suit injunction wanted by RBS and other parties (board) against owner's action in Texas is granted. "This case has nothing to do with Texas."

game on...

looks like the high court has dismissed the texas injuction
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2010/oct/14/liverpool-fc-sale-live-coverage

[i]One legal element of injunctive relief is that one must not have an "adequate remedy at law" (as opposed to equitable relief, which is what a restraining order involves). H&G have an adequate remedy at law in that they can sue the directors for money for the breach of their fiduciary duty to the shareholders to sell the club at the highest price possible. The directors likely have several Directors' and Officers' insurance policies in place for just such contingencies, so for the Names at Lloyd's who underwrote those policies, it is, to quote Sir Alex, "squeaky bum time." The sale goes through and somewhere down the road, Lloyd's writes two large checks to Hicks and Gillett (although the settlement will be confidential). Always get to the insurance.[/i]

"Liverpool fans might enjoy knowing that on Margaret Thatcher's 85th birthday she'll be watching nothing but celebrating scousers and miners all day on TV."

This pleases me.

She's got Flu as well, poor dear. That can be dangerous at her age you know.

😀