[Closed] Liverpool (snigger)

Sky News reporting that the FA have approved the sale, so I don't know how much difference this makes.

Aye. Not exactly sure what kind of shyster you'd have to be to fail the FA's "fit and proper persons test"

why s**** when a club is in turmoil ....love proper football fans !

Football dynasties come and go, Villa, Blackburn, Preston in Edwardian days, Bolton, Blackpool, Leeds in later days. Each could claim to be the biggest, best, greatest whatever, but they all fell off their perches in time.

It's Liverpool's time. If they spiral down the leagues so be it. If they're truly great, they'll come back like the above have.

Yes football has changed but there are two points to make. Firstly football has always changed through the years, changes to players wages, changes to the league structure, changes in rules, introduction of european football, the list is endless. Secondly, the changes happen to everyone at the same time. If some clubs are in a mess, it's simply because of poor administration and the temptation to play Icarus.

If they're truly great, they'll come back like the above have.

I think you are wrong. It would appear by your definition that clubs that become the plaything of rich Arab's are "great"
Most objective people would agree that Liverpool has in the past been as well run as any other club and better than many so its not down to poor administration as such but largely as a result of the American owners.

I think its very sad. Not least that whilst everyone s****s at the demise of clubs across town, 30 miles down the road, other end of M1 etc, businessmen and foreign sovereign wealth funds add the component parts of what was once a fantastic league into their portfolio of sports investments. All very short sighted I feel.

Next stop we'll see it transformed to a closed league with licensed franchises. FA needs a thorough shake up, I'm not even sure what its objectives are these days... chasing the quick buck it seems

I think you are wrong. It would appear by your definition that clubs that become the plaything of rich Arab's are "great"

I could be wrong, but I don't think that any of the clubs that I mentioned are owned by rich Arabs so I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

Most objective people would agree that Liverpool has in the past been as well run as any other club and better than many so its not down to poor administration as such but largely as a result of the American owners.

So it's been poorly administered by it's owners then.

But you said

Secondly, the changes happen to everyone at the same time. If some clubs are in a mess, it's simply because of poor administration and the temptation to play Icarus.

And thats not correct. The changes that have happened to Man City more recently and Chelsea not so long ago are not the same "changes" that have happened to Liverpool.
The first two have large injections of cash which has allowed them to buy some of the worlds best players and consequently become better teams. Liverpool on the other hand have not. Its therefore not a level playing field.
The point I was making is that a clubs success is largely determined by their position in the league as well as the number of trophies they win. This is directly related to the quality of the players they have which is almost without exception directly related to their wealth.

I'm not quite sure why those two exceptions are being used to prove a rule, especially as I never refered to them or tried to contrast Liverpool's position with theirs in anyway.

I'll condense the points I've tried to make.

Dynasties wane. Some return.
Changes have always occurred in football. Some clubs have adapted and flourished, others have suffered.

Liverpool are suffering.

I'm not quite sure why those two exceptions are being used to prove a rule, especially as I never refered to them or tried to contrast Liverpool's position with theirs in anyway.

But you did say

Secondly, the changes happen to everyone at the same time. If some clubs are in a mess, it's simply because of poor administration and the temptation to play Icarus

Thats what I was arguing with. anyway I agree that Liverpool are suffering but as Ian Rush said tonight "we are only 5 points way from champions league football" which is spin but accurate. Heartening if we can collect 5 points however!

Liverpool are suffering.

True, but through no fault of our own. The only reason Liverpool are in this mess is because two unscrupulous business men made promises that they could not keep.

As I said before: Liverpool FC is still an extremely solvent company, and the only debt that exists is the debt that G&H have placed on Kop Holdings (the parent company of LFC that G&H created), which they initially promised they wouldn't do.

Just heard on't radio that Man U have announced £83 million losses for this year. I spose that adds to the hundreds of millions of pounds of debt they're already in. That's mental. So it's not just Liverpool FC facing problems.

About time the FA, UEFA, FIFA et al grew some balls and addressed what is undoubtedly a significantly growing malaise in football.

Isn't that what the 9 point deduction for going into administration is supposed to address?

I agree with you for clubs that over-spend their means to try and gain success. However, the Premier League really needs to tighten up it's methods of assessing new owners. You don't see this happening on the Continent do you?

why blame gillet and hicks? the real criminal is David Moores who cashed in on LFC and is the real betrayer of the fans. I think Man U are in trouble also in the long term unless they can sort their debts.

why blame gillet and hicks? the real criminal is David Moores who cashed in on LFC and is the real betrayer of the fans.

I agree with the bit about David Moores. However, the blame for the current predicament lies squarely with G&H, basically because they saddled the club with loads of debt that they initially promised they wouldn't.

David Moores could be criticised for being naive, or even greedy, but it is G&H that is solely responsible for the debt that is currently crippling the club.

and david moores remains president of lfc!! laughable. liverpool are becoming a joke- konchesky and poulsen?? really! If the moores family really [i]regret[/i]the sale as they say, i'm sure they have the funds to but it back.

However i don't think you'll go down.

[i]
The first two have large injections of cash which has allowed them to buy some of the worlds best players and consequently become better teams. Liverpool on the other hand have not. Its therefore not a level playing field.[/i]

level playing field!, try supporting a team that doesnt know if the players can get paid this week or that has to close a stand because they cant afford to fix it or have liquidators sell off the players in the middle of a cup run

theres not much fair about modern football
ultimately liverpool going under wont change the way things are run

[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2010/oct/13/liverpool-sale-high-court-verdict-live ]a case of premature congratulation there M_F?[/url]

This made me chuckle:

12.18pm: My colleague Gregg Roughley (yes, a Liverpool fan) says: "Liverpool fans might enjoy knowing that on Margaret Thatcher's 85th birthday she'll be watching nothing but celebrating scousers and miners all day on TV."

Dirk Kuyt has snapped ligaments in his ankle. Poor Liverpool.

[i]About time the FA, UEFA, FIFA et al grew some balls and addressed what is undoubtedly a significantly growing malaise in[b]Premier League[/b] football. [/i]

Fixed it etc etc, Germany has some pretty strict financial controls on it's clubs.

I am still confused why everyone blames the rich individuals that have put their private wealth into clubs, rather than the owners who have been stripping money from the clubs, and burdening them with debt.

iDave - Member
a case of premature congratulation there M_F?

lol

its a good job the fa is so effective at running the beautiful game

if they go into receivership will the 9pts be deducted this season or next, because this season theyll surely be relegated?

I don't actually agree with deducting points from a troubled club. It appears to me that it can only guarantee future failure. If the club (any club) is crap and gets relegated they're going to have enough problems, but to add insult to injury by deducting a further 9/10 points is just going to make things worse. If the club is losing money, it's a guarantee that they'll lose even more when they're relegated.
There must be better punishments out there.

luton town fan here totally agree

how about loosing 10points for going into receivership

then a further 20 for financial irregularities after the manager claimed corruption was endemic in football leading to a wide ranging investigation by the fa that exonerated every single other club but decided luton should be punished, despite blatant evidence of all kinds of dodgy dealing from the premiership down?

The points deductions thing is to stop clubs from simply getting rid of debts by going into receivership (which many clubs were beginning to do).

The only real pain that can be put on a club is one of points deductions if they will behave in such a manner to get rid of any financial responsibilities.

Unfortunately, as has been said, it is the fans that really lose out - the owners and shareholders just move on to the next job.

So guilty until proven innocent and even then tough sh1t, that should work. 🙄

luton did indeed get shafted by the FA and was a bit like Mafia enforcers at work IMHO.
Ignored the issues completely shoot the whistle blower and no one will ever speak out of turn again.
The manager was a sexist idiot.

[i]The manager was a sexist idiot. [/i] and many other things besides!

"Liverpool fans might enjoy knowing that on Margaret Thatcher's 85th birthday she'll be watching nothing but celebrating scousers and miners all day on TV."

This pleases me. 🙂

5.21pm: Judge rules that anti-suit injunction wanted by RBS and other parties (board) against owner's action in Texas is granted. "This case has nothing to do with Texas."

game on...

looks like the high court has dismissed the texas injuction
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2010/oct/14/liverpool-fc-sale-live-coverage

[i]One legal element of injunctive relief is that one must not have an "adequate remedy at law" (as opposed to equitable relief, which is what a restraining order involves). H&G have an adequate remedy at law in that they can sue the directors for money for the breach of their fiduciary duty to the shareholders to sell the club at the highest price possible. The directors likely have several Directors' and Officers' insurance policies in place for just such contingencies, so for the Names at Lloyd's who underwrote those policies, it is, to quote Sir Alex, "squeaky bum time." The sale goes through and somewhere down the road, Lloyd's writes two large checks to Hicks and Gillett (although the settlement will be confidential). Always get to the insurance.[/i]

"Liverpool fans might enjoy knowing that on Margaret Thatcher's 85th birthday she'll be watching nothing but celebrating scousers and miners all day on TV."

This pleases me.

She's got Flu as well, poor dear. That can be dangerous at her age you know.

😀

in your liverpool slums:)

Gillett the best a scouse can get

looks like hicks/gillett are determined to take LFC down out of spite imo.

seems i'm correct on the spite issue!

[url= http://http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/9094283.stm ][/url]

Those 2 clowns are supposed to be billionaires so they could, if they wanted, pay off RBS by liquidating some of their other assets, take back control of the club and sell to who they want.

However, seems like they want to the best of all worlds by not paying RBS back but still wanting to sell the club for more than they paid for it.

Wouldn't be the end of the world if Liverpool went into administration - it's early enough in the season to rectify -9 points, and administration would finally get rid of Hicks & Gillett.

im really confused have the old yanks lifted their injunction so the new yanks can buy the club

or as is rumoured have the old yanks sold their shares to the yank hedge fund so theyll still go into administration?????

and wtf are the FA or the FSA for that matter?!

I bought the wife a new pair of Liverpool FC knickers from the club shop.

A sound investment, two yanks and they are down.

(c)sicki

it's early enough in the season to rectify -9 points

They frankly don't look like picking up another 9 points all season

 

Not at the moment they don't, but this is a club with a decent squad, better than most of the premier league. Liverpool will pick things up again.

Given the particular circumstances, I can't see them being docked points. They have a buyer lined up, it's more or less a done deal, it's just those greedy bastards trying to screw something for themselves. Anyone can see that. Punishing the club for that wouldn't be in the interests of football. Liverpool FC are one of the main attractions in World football, not just this country. A big money-earner.

And if they were docked points, then I'd like to see a concerted effort by the team to fight their way back up again. Could be the motivation they need.

I think it's time Samuel L Jackson was brought in to deal with Hicks and Gillet though...

[img] [/img]

i cant see this farce doing the players any favours over the next few matches if they get a point before xmas theyll be doing well imho

and heres teh latest development

[i]11.40am: Mill Financial: what we are pretty certain we know:
It is a US-based hedge fund.
It took over George Gillett's 50% stake after he defaulted on loans.

What we also think:
It is believed to be an arm of the Springfield Financial Companies Group, based in Virginia.

Possibly also the case:
It might be run by Dwight Schar.
Schar is described as a businessman and philanthropist, and is said to be a co-owner in the Washington Redskins, American football franchise.
Schar appears on this Washington Redskins website page[/i]

They will easily stay up, but mid-table mediocrity is the best they can hope for this season after such a poor start.

They can take hope from Spurs plight a few seasons ago. Rooted to the bottom of the table under Juande Ramos, Redknapp came in and kept them up, following season they'd qualified for the Champions League.

Not convinced Hodgson can do as good a job as Redknapp did, but getting new owners in and some stability is the first step to recovery.

My head hurts from all this nonsense.