[Closed] Life is all about taking risks...

WTF has she got a helmet on for? 😆

the helmet's so you dont crack your head off the rock.

[i]the helmet's so you dont crack your head off the rock. [/i]

and to protect against falling rocks...

that's really ****ing stupid

i'm all for risk and not mollycoddling kids, but that's someone whose issues have issues.

* whoosh! *

the helmet's so you dont crack your head off the rock.

my helmet has stopped more stuff falling on my head than my head hitting off walls etc.

there's always a risk of loose rock/ice coming down at you, whether it's from something you just dislodged with your hand/axe, or another climber/bird/water course etc 100ft above you.

Loose rock, slip off and twist, hitting the rock with your back. All real risks there. She is a tool

Elf and safety: Menna Pritchard has defended her decision to rock climb with two-year-old daughter Ffion strapped to her back

Ok who works for the Daily Mail?

I'm sure the baby is learning a lot about life having made the conscious decision to take that risk.

What is she trying to prove and who is she trying to prove it to?

two things, no helmet on the kid, exposing it to rockfall, secondly, she's been climbing for 2 years, which I would still class as a novice, mental.

naff tat.

She called her baby "Ffion" she clearly has no shame!

So she is studying for a degree in Outdoor Education? At what point will she be taking the class that tells her that every participant in rock climbing activities is required to wear suitable safety equipment including helmets?

Is it any more 'dangerous' or 'risky' than cycling anlong a normal road in the UK with a little un in a trailer ??

Is it any more 'dangerous' or 'risky' than cycling anlong a normal road in the UK with a little un in a trailer ??

Yes, significantly so.

Three Cliffs is coastal limestone, pretty solid, but on any crag like that there's still loose stuff that can fall off the ledges and the top of the ridge. Unlikely, but possible, particularly as that part of the cliff has people scrambling above the routes a lot.

Top-roping is pretty much the most stable and safest form of climbing, but wearing a two-year-old on your back doesn't exactly improve your centre of gravity and balance, and if she slips sideways or misjudges when she's lowering near the base and goes onto her back, then kid gets a clunk.

At that age, my two were getting their arms out of their baby backpack straps whenever they felt like it - not the sort of thing you'd want if you're 50ft up at the time.

Obviously, the most damning thing is that she considers it a climb requiring a helmet, but doesn't consider it worthwhile providing one for nipper.

I think she's equated the word 'toprope' with 'safe'. Can't see that the two-year-old will get much out of it either.

Oh for heavens sake, she is top roped. More risk involved in driving to the crag 🙄

In the grand scheme of things the child's probably at a much lower risk then if the mum smoked or sat around all day eating pizzas and watching the telly.

Has nobody explained to her that it would be quicker and easier to get to the child to the top of the cliff with an oversize catapult?

the most damning thing is that she considers it a climb requiring a helmet, but doesn't consider it worthwhile providing one for nipper

She can have more kids but will only ever have the one head.

I disagree with your assessment Aracer.

Hopefully none of you will ever come to Norway and see people downhill skiing while carrying toddlers their backs. It would be too shocking for you.

Attention whore. No more; no less.

[i]She can have more kids but will only ever have the one head. [/i]

😆

Meh... would prefer to see the child in a helmet, but other than that fair play to her.

I disagree with your assessment Aracer.

Why? How many babies in trailers do you hear of being seriously injured or killed?

She can have more kids but will only ever have the one head.

Clearly you've never been to Glossop

GrahamS - Member

Meh... would prefer to see the child in a helmet, but other than that fair play to her.

seems reasonable.

aracer - Member

"I disagree with your assessment Aracer."

Why? How many babies in trailers do you hear of being seriously injured or killed?

How many toddlers going rock climbing with mum?

Nice that she has a helmet and not the toddler, cretins!

WTF has she got a helmet on for?

Aracer - About the same number as those killed / seriously injured whilst climbing strapped to their mothers backs, whilst top roping, in the UK.

Anyway - I'm not saying you are not entiltled to your assessment of the situation and opinion, just I dont agree with it.

If she was lead climbing, she'd probably be locked up....but come on, other than the helmet issue (which is a big one, and a major fail in her attention whoring plan) there is little other risk to the nipper than if she had her strapped to her back for a walk in the park in winter.

In fact, one could argue that the kid (if she was wearing a helmet) is safer on mum's back whilst top roping and slipped, than if mum slipped on a patch of ice in the park (nothing to catch you fall).

Provided the guy belaying knows what he's doing, then the risk is actually quite minimal (helmet stupidity aside).

I come off continually whilst top roping (especially when ice climbing), and even when trying some fairly big moves, I don't "fall", nor do I tend to spin round and smack my back on regular pitched routes.

About the same number as those killed / seriously injured whilst climbing strapped to their mothers backs, whilst top roping, in the UK.

See:

How many toddlers going rock climbing with mum?

I'm not saying you are not entiltled to your assessment of the situation and opinion, just I dont agree with it.

and I was wondering if you had any basis for your assessment.

Calm down everyone, I've found the original pic
[IMG] [/IMG]

Aracer - My assessment is made from years of climbing and cycling, albeit without my kids strapped to my back or in tow. I have come a lot closer to being killed / seriously injured on the road by inconsiderate driving by others, as opposed to top roping a climb.

I bet her kid has a bloody splendid time growing up with a mum like that.

Unlike most Mail readers' kids, who will grow up into empty, shrivelled husks slumped behind desks pecking at keyboards like pigeons in Skinner boxes.

I meant how many toddlers get killed going rock climbing with mum?

Why take a chance, accidents happen no matter how safe you have been, are or feel, the same goes for cyclist who think their Captain Scarlet and indestructible, once little mishap or bad luck is all it takes.

Also the Daily Mail (surprise) and the OP are taking her "Life is about taking risks" comment completely out of context.

She wasn't making some "brazen" "adrenalin junkie" quip - she was making the perfectly valid point that we all take risks all the time:

"Health and safety legislation and the sue and blame culture mean so many people are nervous, so afraid of getting into trouble, and taking small risks.

Life is all about risks, whether that’s something as simple as getting in your car every day or climbing up a rock face."

As for attention whoring, I don't think she called up the Daily Wail and said [i]"Hey why don't you question my suitability as a mother and stir up a massive hate campaign against me?"[/i]

It was just a post on her blog:
[img] [/img]
http://aimevenhigher.blogspot.com/2012/01/adventures-in-babywearing.html

Looks like the kid has a great time to me 😀

hmmmm, i might have to change my opinion. she looks like a bit of a hippy......burn the witch!!!! 😉

Why take a chance, accidents happen no matter how safe you have been

Because life would be completely and utterly dull otherwise? And you wouldn't actually be able to do anything at all, in case an "accident" (which you often have little or no control over anyway) occurs.

Why take a chance, accidents happen no matter how safe you have been, are or feel,

Are you wearing a full face helmet right now?
Knee pads? Wrist guards? Spine protector?

Accidents can happen anywhere! Earlier I spilt some hot coffee. If it wasn't for my heat proof mittens I might have seriously scalded my pinkie.

I bet her kids have a bloody splendid time growing up with a mum like that

BruceWee - I've seen people skiing with kids in back packs - and quite frankly think they are crazy: if they realised how out of control lots of skiers are they wouldn't want to take the risk of 100 kg of solid person hitting their child at 30 mph - they might be amazing themselves but there are plenty of crazies around.

GrahamS - I'm not a fan of unnecessary health and safety and lack of risk taking, but I think it needs a little more than a helmet on the child. The "sling" the kid is in is not designed for the sort of shock loads you might expect in a rock climbing fall. Mummy stops, baby doesn't. Mummy ends up upside down (seen it happen) baby sling probably not designed for that either.

Rubber Buccanneer - yes driving to the crag is inherently dangerous, but it would be misleading to suggest that top roping is inherently safe. It relies on the correct use of all the gear, correct set up of the top anchor, and that no gear fails. It also demands that the belayer is competent. I've known a couple of competent climbers get quite badly injured in top roped falls - possibly due to complacency, but is that the same complacency that pops a helmet on your own head but not on the toddlers?

MF - According to the CV on her blog she has already done the SPA training but still needs to do her assessment... ...still she's listed her employer on there, and in a crowded "market place" I can't imagine too many average parents will be that keen to send their little darlings into her care - probably not the best career move!

However clearly the biggest risk is that the belayer has probably not got any sunscreen on!

MF - According to the CV on her blog she has already done the SPA training but still needs to do her assessment... ...still she's listed her employer on there, and in a crowded "market place" I can't imagine too many average parents will be that keen to send their little darlings into her care - probably not the best career move!

This puts it the most succinctly for me...
[b]but if mum needs a helmet so does baby, otherwise carry on.[/b]

:Attention whore. No more no less:
I agree

Question is, would you give the mum [i]your[/i] helmet?

f they realised how out of control lots of skiers are they wouldn't want to take the risk of 100 kg of solid person hitting their child at 30 mph

Same goes for cars though. Much more so in fact.
We can't all just stay indoors to avoid that risk though.

not designed for the sort of shock loads you might expect in a rock climbing fall. Mummy stops, baby doesn't.

I don't know enough about rock climbing to comment on that really. She says "you don’t fall any further than where you came off" so doesn't seem like there would be massive shocks.

Mummy ends up upside down (seen it happen) baby sling probably not designed for that either.

Yeah that's a risk I suppose. I'm assuming she's had the sense to secure the toddler pretty well.

Typical daily Mail, made up indignation and someone looking for her 15 mins of fame.

There is pretty much zero risk to the kid, but there seems no point taking a kid that young with her as it will not appreciate what's happening.

Question is, would you give the mum your helmet?

only if i hadn't used it in a while 🙂

Typical daily Mail, made up indignation and someone looking for her 15 mins of fame.

Again what makes you think she would submit her story to the Daily Mail so they could savage her suitability as a mother and no doubt cause her a lot of stress??

She blogged about it on her own blog. The DM just saw the chance for a good "unfit mother" story to bring in some clicks.

there seems no point taking a kid that young with her as it will not appreciate what's happening.

Kid is two according to the story. Speaking as a father of a 21 month old, two is plenty old enough to appreciate what's happening!

I doubt the baby carrier would fail in a fall. It isn't part of the system, like a harness. It's no more likely to pop off than her bra. Top-roping, if done correctly, doesn't involve more than a slump onto the rope.

Those pictures you posted do show the child-carrier from behind. It doesn't even have shoulder straps to secure the kid downwards. If she does somehow contrive to semi-invert in a fall, then it's all a bit precarious in terms of keeping the toddler inside the carrier.

So mainly, no helmet, but I wouldn't be happy seeing a kid suspended at height in one of those.

Earlier I spilt some hot coffee. If it wasn't for my heat proof mittens I might have seriously scalded my pinkie.

You should have been wearing trousers.

Those pictures you posted do show the child-carrier from behind. It doesn't even have shoulder straps to secure the kid downwards. If she does somehow contrive to semi-invert in a fall, then it's all a bit precarious in terms of keeping the toddler inside the carrier.

Well yes, inversion from top rope falls is ever so common.

Didn't say it was common. But I've seen it happen on more than one occasion. Being top-heavy doesn't make it less likely, either.

Fair enough, but IMO she is more likely to injure the kid by falling over in the car park while she is strapped to her back.

Fulltime Student. Studying what?

I'm sure it wasn't her best decision not to stick a helmet on the kid but it's the mothers choice to do what she likes, plenty of mothers out there abuse their kids and we never hear about it. This is just sensationalism based on a picture ripped from someones blog, then they've spoken to her about it......horse = bolted

and I see plenty of kids tearing about here on bikes with no helmet.....what's the difference?

I'm sure I smell burning, i think Mumsnet just caught fire

Same goes for cars though. Much more so in fact.
We can't all just stay indoors to avoid that risk though.

I don't know enough about rock climbing to comment on that really. She says "you don’t fall any further than where you came off" so doesn't seem like there would be massive shocks.

Yeah that's a risk I suppose. I'm assuming she's had the sense to secure the toddler pretty well.

Fulltime Student. Studying what?

Outdoor education. She may have fallen asleep during some of the lectures.

Anyhow, I've noticed that she appears to be a fan of 'Eat Pray Love', quoting sections admiringly on her blog. And so is beyond redemption.

It's only right that parents protect themselves when out with kids. If something happens who's going to feed them?

.
..
.[img] [/img]

If the crag is 20m high, then rope stretch could be 2m+ on top of the 'slack' drop. Would most people jump off a 6ft high wall with a kid on their back?

maths/physics fail

Wonder what kind of grade that climb is, and what her limit is without the toddler on her back. Also, is she climbing bare foot in the pic?

If she's climbing anywhere near her limit then she's a muppet.

All the climbs on that bit of cliff are short, slabby and easy (Diff/Vdiff).

I like her tatt.

One for the bank. 😀

I read this thread with interest as the father of two young kids (3 & 4)
I have never climbed so cannot comment on the safety aspect however to me it seems a crazy and potentially risky stunt, especially if she is not that experienced. My wife has climbed, when I showed her the pic her first retort was "crazy". I love to take my kids outdoors, walking, pedalling, they even climb some trees! BUT, in terms I can relate to no way would I ever strap my kid to my back and take him/her out biking with me. Helmet or no helmet 😉

Having done (a small) amount of climbing, I've been dropped by a perfectly competent belayer (he was staring at a girls bum in hotpants who'd just started climbing at the rope next to mine) which, although inexcusable shows that shit does indeed happen. I fell about 15ft but landed on my feet. It hurt. I've also asked for slack to make a move, failed and spun around to fall, although a small amount of drop, fairly hard backwards into the wall.
Not sure I'd do it with my daughter on my back, she'll be taught risks and be encouraged to weigh them up and take her own when she's ready.

However, wearing a helmet when your kid doesnt is just plain stupid and deserves a tarring and feathering.

If she's climbing anywhere near her limit then she's a muppet.

From her blog it is a crag that that she teaches kids to climb on.
http://aimevenhigher.blogspot.com/2011/08/crag-of-week_22.html

from GrahamS's link someone left this comment:

oh my gosh, what a beautiful photo!! You are amazing and that picture of you with your daughter on your back is way incredible. You go, Mama!! 😀

So not everyone hates her.......also posted back in October of last year so obviously one of the Daily Mail "we hate everything because we just need something to moan about" brigade found it by accident then dobbed her in to stir up some vitriol that was missing in their lives

Live and let live I say (sometimes)

Edit: Also, she's a single mum trying to do the best by her daughter, however misguided people might think she's being, she's not stuffing the kid full of McDonalds and second hand smoke (as far as we know)

nacho BUT, in terms I can relate to no way would I ever strap my kid to my back and take him/her out biking with me. Helmet or no helmet

But many people do the world over without any issues.

If she is climbing well within her ability as it would appear how big is the real risk?

he's not stuffing the kid full of McDonalds and second hand smoke (as far as we know)

Well said. I see considerably worse parenting every time I wander into town at lunchtime, some of which is quite upsetting (junkie/alcoholic parents, battered mums, obese 5 year olds in pushchairs being wheeled into the chip shop for lunch) 🙁

My assessment is made from years of climbing and cycling, albeit without my kids strapped to my back or in tow. I have come a lot closer to being killed / seriously injured on the road by inconsiderate driving by others, as opposed to top roping a climb.

I accept that's your opinion on this, and I'm not likely to change it. However I've also done plenty of climbing, carrying a kiddy in a backpack (not combining the two), and pulling a kid in a trailer. I've never had a single incident where I felt at all in danger whilst pulling a trailer on the road. I have had a few near misses when on my own and a couple of hits, but still nothing which would have resulted in injury for a child in a trailer I was towing - when towing though car drivers give you far more space and consideration. The risk is extremely low.

OTOH I have seen people get flipped round when being top roped (I suspect it's happened to me but can't remember what safety I've been using when it has). I've also experienced considerable drops when top roping, despite having an attentive belayer. That's despite having spent far less time climbing than towing a kiddy trailer. Neither of which is a good situation with a kiddy in a backpack - in fact the kiddy in the backpack will increase the likelihood of getting spun round. Also a kiddy in a backpack significantly raises your CofG, increasing the possibility of inversion to a level where it's a real risk. The sit harness isn't designed to take that load distribution, the kiddy backpack isn't designed to take the loading from coming off, even on a top rope. Like you I've never come close to being seriously injured or killed top roping, but the point you're missing is that there are plenty of circumstances which are totally safe when climbing solo which would result in injury to a kiddy in a backpack - and I'd be very surprised if you hadn't witnessed some.

As for comparing the risk to driving - well maybe, but whilst taking a kiddy in a car may not be essential, it's far more useful than taking a kiddy climbing in a backpack, which is totally unnecessary.

she'll be taught risks and be encouraged to weigh them up and take her own when she's ready.

This. Her kid isn't taking risks - she's putting it at risk. I plan on taking my son climbing soon (not sure if the local wall will let him in at 5 or the minimum is 6), but that's completely different to what she's doing.

Any rucksack I climbed with had a top lid and strap. No idea why anyone would think it was remotely possible that something would fall out without a lid. When in backpacks like hers my kids would sometimes have a paddy and arch their backs, pushing against my lower back and lifting themselves quite far out of the pack. Of course she's such an earth mother her kids is perfectly well trained. my kids grew up with risk but there are lines not to cross. The fact that it's an easy climb means injury from a fall is more likely. Not much to hit when you fall off most E6's.

TJ - I made the helmet comment tongue in cheek 😉 It's all about individual opinions and your own risk assessment so I can't say whether she is right or wrong especially as a non climber. As for biking with a kid on a backpack, I mean't MTB'ing. I fall off. Regularly. I don't want to squash my child or have him/her fall and get a serious injury and have to live with it. That's my choice and belief. When ours were younger we wouldn't take them out in the trailer unless on the road unless there was an adult (normally me) behind the trailer. Like GrahamS said she could be doing far worse things but to me it's too dangerous to consider. They don't cycle on the road yet (not taken cycling proficiency) and there are enough canal paths / cycle routes / forst trails for me to decide it's not worth taking that risk.
EDIT
I have just been reminded by my wife that I did have my daughter in a "backpack" on a fireroad so I'm guilty of that as well! And my little ones always wear helmets 😆 😉

But many people do the world over [b]without any issues[/b].

Eh? You're saying no kid ever gets badly hurt in a third world country by being strapped to a parent who has an accident? Wow, the array of stats at your fingertips is impressive. Either that or you're making it up.

DH skiing on a gentle quiet slope + kid - maybe
XC sking + kid - yes
Cycling + kid in trailer - yes
Cycling on busy road + kid in trailer - no
Light scrambling with kid in carrier - yes
Rock climbing with kid in fabric papoose - no

I can't see there's any point in exposing the kid to that not inconsiderable risk, tbh. She'd probably enjoy a day's walk much better, climbing isn't much of a spectator sport, esp for a 2 year old.

Why no crash helmet for kiddie then?

Molgrips

But many people do the world over without any issues.

no kid ever gets badly hurt in a third world country by being strapped to a parent who has an accident?