[Closed] Let's talk about suicide

By saying things like ‘Suicide IS preventable’ you are writing suicide off as an aberration rather than the inevitable outcome of the system we live in.

It's also very dismissive of the act itself. I've never felt suicidal but I can envisage circumstances where I'd think right, I've had enough of this time to go. Why should somebody else tell me that's wrong? My life my choice.

It can also be an empowering act. For someone who has been disempowered by illness of any sort, suicide is the ultimate taking back of control, they may be unable to change the circumstances of their life but they can end it.

Now I know that many suicides can and should be prevented but to talk about zero suicide and say all can or should be prevented is dismissive of the thought processes of those individuals and sounds almost like a religious pro-life agenda.

Today's news on the BBC is very grim indeed. The suicide rate will skyrocket this winter.

Sadly I believe you are right.
the summer lockdown has a huge effect on mental health, a winter one plus loss of jobs etc has to be worse

Hi Donkey.

Just wanted to check in with you. That must have been hard to write. How are you doing today?

It’s also very dismissive of the act itself. I’ve never felt suicidal but I can envisage circumstances where I’d think right, I’ve had enough of this time to go. Why should somebody else tell me that’s wrong? My life my choice.

It can also be an empowering act. For someone who has been disempowered by illness of any sort, suicide is the ultimate taking back of control, they may be unable to change the circumstances of their life but they can end it.

Now I know that many suicides can and should be prevented but to talk about zero suicide and say all can or should be prevented is dismissive of the thought processes of those individuals and sounds almost like a religious pro-life agenda.

I think you're marking some good points there. I would challenge the religious pro-life agenda comment - there are many powerful secular argument that suicide is not morally just. The common one is that if you say suicide is morally acceptable, but then start to extend that beyond one or two cases it starts to cause massive societal harm and harm to families/friends.

It's a bit like saying "It's OK for me to drive my Hummer V8 because it's CO2 emissions are negligible on a global scale. Me changing my decision will have no impact." That is probably true but you wouldn't try and extend that to say "Owning Hummer V8s is morally sound".

I've got to the place where I believe every suicide is understandable and some even rational. But I would never try to argue for it being right and campaigning to reduce suicide is a reasonable thing to do.

For someone who has been disempowered by illness of any sort, suicide is the ultimate taking back of control, they may be unable to change the circumstances of their life but they can end it.

This is the case for me. I have MS and I'm in a good place with no intention of killing myself. BUT if I start to experience rapid physical and cognitive decline and I still have the ability to notice then I will be going down the (assisted) suicide route. Things won't get better for me in that scenario, only worse - by then it's permanent, worsening, nerve damage...

Bruce….. Right now you sound very BPD.

You seem to be very “black and white” in your thinking.

Are you having a tough time at the moment?

On a thread entitled 'Let's talk about suicide' you're dismissing someone's comments by suggesting they have a serious mental illness.

That's a proper low blow and one of the nastiest things I've seen on STW for a long time. It may be that you didn't intend it that way but at face value it negates the studied niceness of your other comments and goes a long way to undermine the notion that you're well intentioned about this.

Not me, but I think my brother is suicidal. Not too sure how to try and help him.
Background is, he is going through a divorce and he is trying to homeschool two kids by himself, one of them is ASD and has Pathological Demand Avoidance Syndrome. Is finding things super tough.

However, he has pushed ALL friends away and family. He is being really nasty towards his soon to be ex-wife and us his family, saying lots of hurtful things.

It appears from the odd facebook comment that pops up, that he is just engaging with a very narrow online community, some with whacky ideas.

How can you help someone who pushes everyone away? and is causing lots of pain and distress with wider friends and family? (sorry to hijack thread)

Mrwhyte, your brother sounds in a really dark place. What's the situation with the kids, do you feel that he is putting them at risk?
I don't know where you live but look up early help services within your local authority. Anyone can refer someone to them and they can offer all sorts of support from family support workers to sorting out respite or mental health support/counselling. Chances are your brother will refuse any support, which is his right, but it can be transformative and is also much less intrusive than social workers.
If you think his behaviour is putting his kids at risk though, you might have to go straight to social services.
As for helping him, if he doesn't want help, that's up to him, but it's important that he knows people are there that want to help, so keep letting him know you care. That's about as much as you can do.

Bruce….. Right now you sound very BPD.

You seem to be very “black and white” in your thinking.

Are you having a tough time at the moment?

Yeah, must have missed this reading through.
In terms of dealing with someone who you think might be struggling with their mental health, this is about as bad a response as you can possibly give.

You've tried to diagnose someone with an enormously complex condition that can take professionals years to properly diagnose based on a couple of forum posts. Horrendous.

Also, if you are truly concerned about someone's memtal health, try asking them how they're thinking instead of telling them, because, again, you have absolutely no idea what they're thinking and are only going to wind them up saying things like that. De-escalation of heightened emotions is important in helping people.

I'm sure it wasn't your intention but it looks a little like you've attempted to undermine someone who disagrees with you by insinuating they have a mental illness.

He lives in Sussex. He has tried at first to engage with early help through school, then when taking his boy out of school has again tried. But the last 6 months have been a constant stream of him versus the world and how everyone has let him down, lawyers, children services, doctors, family etc. He is just shutting off from the world he perceives is against him.

I feel helpless at the moment. I keep sending little messages and links to music i think he'd like. But he doesn't engage. every now and then I'll get a heart emoji then other times I will get a huge rant saying how no one understands where he is and what he is going through and how naive and stupid I am.

It is tough to know if he is putting his kids at risk. I believe he thinks he is doing it all for the benefit of his children.

Just keep doing what you're doing.
It sounds like you're doing the best you can, but it's easy to feel like you're not helping when you get no results.
Just remember that his ager with the world could be a manifestation of how he feels about himself. Try to keep positive, if he knows you're there, he'll come to you eventually.

mrwhyte - I can only sympathise with you and your brother.

I have some experience of what he is dealing with, and it can indeed feel like everyone is against you (or at least that there's zero support available).

Happy to discuss if you'd like to PM me.

Cheers Chakaping. I'll try ping you a message later.