MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
https://www.trend-uk.com/courses
I haven't been on a Trend course as my use of routers is mostly limited to site work, eg hinges, locks, worktops, but have always fancied it as workshop routers must surely be the most versatile power tool. I reckon what you can do with a router is limited by what others have shown you and your own imagination.
Also a course would teach you important safety considerations. Routers can be very dangerous. They can do a lot of damage in a fraction of a second.
Also common mistakes ime are not fully tightening adjustment knobs, forgetting what depth it has been set, and unexpected damage/ loss of control due to direction of grain. Another obvious thing to look out for is not putting it down with the cutter still spinning and the plunge locked down. They can also chuck a lot of shit into your eyes.
Talk to me about bits
Is it a case of buying cheap, seeing what bits I do actually use before investing?
Probably best value when starting out is the selection boxes that Trend sell - a box of 8 -10 bits that cover most eventualities for the price of 3 or 4 if you bought them individually.
You can get cheaper sets but the Achilles heal is cheap bearings which can sheer off - which is a great way to suddenly ruin all your hard work. I would avoid buying cheap for anything that has a bearing on it - the bearings on better quality cutters are still a bit rubbish.
As you suggest - you'll wear out the ones you use most so those are the ones worth spending a bit more money on when you replace.
Ear and eye protection is the first priority for me they scream at just the right rpm to drive my ears nuts. And I've seen a cutter lose a blade (miss use)
Clamps lots of clamps good double sided tape for templates or even hot glue but still clamps.
Don't underestimate the vibration on the effects of cheap clamps.
Never be tempted to pull the cutter shank out of the collet for "just that few more MM of cut"
Direction of cut and grain will get you a lot on some hardwoods walnut and ash will kick like a pig beach is lovely to machine it's almost plastic.
Get the trend resin cleaner the eco friendly one use it on all your tct tools.
Make your own plastic radius tools basically a straight edge with a centre point that you bolt the router too.
They are very versatile tools but to understand how dangerous a 1/2 70mm 2 flute cutter can be I locked up the cutters in the last place I ran and checked the set up of some of the staff after an incident. it stoped them nicking the exotic stuff I had custom made too.
Take your time and you're fine extraction will be an issue if hand held that's why I mostly use a table now
Ear and eye protection is covered, all this talk of safety I’m likely to wear my chainsaw trousers!
@ernielynch those courses look great but very very far away. I’ve not seen anything locally either, might take another look at the Edinburgh area, I cant make regular evening courses which makes that option difficult.
So, clamps then. I’ve been using Irwin Quick Clamps for a few jobs, are they robust enough for the job?
Direction of cut and grain will get you a lot on some hardwoods walnut and ash will kick like a pig beach is lovely to machine it’s almost plastic.
Get the trend resin cleaner the eco friendly one use it on all your tct tools.
It’s going to be a while before I get near anything decent. I have a project lined up with is replacement for some shelving. But each shelf will be its own little “box” so I can try different things (e.g. pullout trays that work as a shoe rack, deep drawers that get used as a linen basket/rubbish bin etc). But that’s not going to be made out of anything expensive as there will be mistakes in design and build.
That approach also fits in well with available time, making each element a much smaller project time wise.
Understanding cutter rotation and feed direction is key for me in avoiding accidents. I've seen a lot of gnarly stuff happen when this isn't understood.
This article goes into it.
It's easy to get confused when you switch from hand-held work to table work.
As a general rule, always cut AGAINST the direction of cutter rotation.
I’ve been using Irwin Quick Clamps for a few jobs, are they robust enough for the job?
I would have thought so.
On the subject of courses, our local family run tool store runs their own router courses.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bessey-TG25-2K-9-84in-4-72in-cast-Iron/dp/B000JLSNZ4/ref=mp_s_a_1_13?keywords=Bessey&qid=1648581179&s=diy&search-type=ss&sr=1-13
My current fave for low profile head clamps a finer thread would make them easier to use one handed.
I think I’d missed those replies.
I’ve only seen them as I think I’m developing some sort of obsession with clamping options…
Can you have too many clamps, is that a thing?
Can you have too many clamps, is that a thing?
No, no it's not.
Mesmerising video @kayak23 and love the end product. Really need to move house so can have play space.
I've actually found a local woodworking course.
It is £21k which seems a bit pricey, not sure what the going rate is ......
For how long? Who runs the course?
Although it wasnt a serious post, the course does actually exist, details here;
https://chippendaleschool.com/furniture-making-courses/professional-course/
Surely they teach you how to use a swan neck chisel rather than a router on that course??
Oh yeah. Heard of them.
Great if it's in your budget.
If you're after learning more basics, there could be a college course, evening class or something instead maybe.
The college I used to work at does 4 evening classes a week alongside the daytime stuff.
No good to you in Warwickshire though.
Rather spend that cash on one of paul sellers classes if he is still doing them.
He is on YouTube if your interested.
I highly recommend his Christmas star project if your new to woodworking
Great if it’s in your budget.
I dont have enough limbs to pay for that.
I've triple checked the local Colleges and theres nothing within evening course reach annoyingly.
Seem to be in a bit of a blank spot unless travelling into Edinburgh which would cost quite a lot of time.
Just want to thank @intheborders for recommending that Makita Router/providing the link now I've had a while to use this thing.
Excellent little router and very easy to use.
Can you have too many clamps, is that a thing?
If you've ever watched a video of a luthier building an acoustic guitar, then the answer is no, you can never have too many clamps 🙂
Slight hijack. I need to put up lots of shelves and cut them to size.
What’s best circular saw or jigsaw. By best I mean cutting a straight line and not my hand off.
Also ,cordless recommendations for either are welcome.
Slight hijack. I need to put up lots of shelves and cut them to size.
What’s best circular saw or jigsaw. By best I mean cutting a straight line and not my hand off.
Also ,cordless recommendations for either are welcome.
I only have very limited experience with jigsaws, but in my experience it's more about swapping to a new blade when it starts getting dull, and taking it slow and methodical.
Measure twice, cut once, as they say.
They cut pretty fast do you might want to modulate your trigger finger lest you go 'off piste'
Track saw would be best
As the baseplate of a jigsaw is straight, you can run it against a basic fence, which would be a straight piece of wood or mdf to keep the jigsaw on track.
If you are cutting mdf, this is fine, but if you are cutting solid timber, then a handheld circular saw is much better, as with a jigsaw, the thin blade tends to follow the grain and wander, leaving anything but a straight cut*
*As in the cut on top might follow the line, but underneath, the line might have wobbled all over leaving a ragged finish.
If using a circular saw. NEVER hold the bit you're cutting off. Use a fence on the saw, or a sub fence as above and keep both hands on the saw.
A common injury for amateur woodworkers is they hold the bit theyre going to cut, and curl their fingers underneath the board, which the saw then dutifully slices off.
I should ask how thick is the shelf, because mini circular saws are available, which might be safer for the diyer to use than a bloody great model.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/183197296614?hash=item2aa768e7e6:g:lKoAAOSwsIZZm~Fu
This one is cheap,of reasonable quality and a depth of cut of 27mm, which should be good for most shelf cutting type jobs.
How to use a fence on a jigsaw -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEb7IdWbWKI&ab_channel=RocklerWoodworkingandHardware
Slight hijack. I need to put up lots of shelves and cut them to size.
What’s best circular saw or jigsaw. By best I mean cutting a straight line and not my hand off.
Also ,cordless recommendations for either are welcome.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Makita-DSS501Z-Cordless-Circular-Blade/dp/B00KGT542Y/ref=sr_1_7?
I have one of these - brilliant tool, almost renders a handsaw obsolete, plus you can cut fairly decent mitres if take time to check angles. Unlike a more powerful mains saw, enough power to cut without it running away or kicking back. Also great for the DIY places that don’t offer board cutting and you need to get an 8x4 in your car.
I’d also add it would be difficult to get a good enough finish with a jigsaw for shelving - I only use them for rough-cuts or stuff you can’t see.
If you’ve ever watched a video of a luthier building an acoustic guitar, then the answer is no, you can never have too many clamps 🙂
For some reason that reminds me of Yvette Amos on BBC Wales Today.....
The shelves are for the stock room so they don't need to be pretty. I use loft boards as they are cheap and an inch thick.
I'd buy the Worx saw then, sounds ideal for that job, and only 60 quid.(use the voucher)
Says it comes with a parallel guide, so no need to faff about with a sub fence and once you've got the correct width, will make identical cuts to all the rest.
Anybody know if vevor routers are as good as katsu? Router plus plunge base, tilt base, fixed, fixed offset bases, 2 collars, dust extraction £61.99 less a fiver with code VVOFF, I'm tempted.
Vevor appears to be a Chinese company, listed as dissolved in UK companies house. That could mean little though.
Katsu seems to have a fair reputation, and prices are similar, so maybe better going with them rather than one few seem to know.
Katsu and or Vevor will likely be of similar quality, though shouldn't really be compared to the Makita brand they're copying.
Katsu and or Vevor will likely be of similar quality, though shouldn’t really be compared to the Makita brand they’re copying.
Even just the button feel when you're turning it on/off is noticeably cheaper-feeling on my cordless Katsu compared to my Makita that it copies.
Random Orbit Sanders, am I likely to see much return on spending £200 over £100?
Like the Router, I'm not seeing a need for cordless but good dust extraction is important.
With sanders the issue for extraction is whether they come with a useful round port for extraction or some weird shape that only the supplied daft little dust bag will attach to
beyond that the difference money will buy is differences in the size of the the orbit (which dictates how effective the tool will be at removing material rather than just smoothing a surface) and in some cases the ability to switch between two orbits for shaping and finishing
the 150mm sanders by metabo, dewalt, AEG, Mafell (and prob a few others) are made by the same company - all quite different looking but all distinctive for have a metal housing for the orbiting bit) and have the same mechanism inside which is switchable between a 2mm and 6mm orbit making them pretty versatile.
(actually a quick look suggests those machines have crept above your £200 ceiling - I’m sure I paid less than that for a AEG one but that was before covit / brexid)
If you can find one as it is i think older stock, look for a Dewalt D26410 150mm random orbital sander. Its a dual orbit, so has either a 6mm, for heavy sanding, or a 3mm for finer finishing. It also has integral extraction, so would be relatively dust free. It is around about £200, maybe a smidgen more- £220 or something like that.
Aye Dewalt seems to have real problems with stock availability across the board at the moment
As mentioned above
Dewalt D26410
AEG EX 150 ES
METABO SXE 450
all have the same innards with a selectable orbit - I've had both the AEG and the Metabo - the metabo has a better shaped port for dust - the AEG - at the time- was the cheaper option - had a slightly weird slant cut to the dust port which required a bit of pipe and tape to get a good connection. But it had a better way of selecting between the different orbit sizes - on the Dewalt and Metabo you select by pressing in a button and turning the sanding pad til you hear a click - but you can't see what size of orbit you've engaged by dong that
The metabo seems to be in stock at a keen price here:
When I spoke to someone on the Mirka stand at the Makers show last week he was clear that if you only used a sander now and then you might as well get a cheapie. Mirka, Festool etc. are worth it if you use them all day, every day because of their light weight and anti-vibration qualities (he said). I had an Erbauer but took it back (twice actually) because the velcro wore out. If you get a pad saver that should stop that happening and you can get a 125mm for £50. I bought a Makita instead for £100. No significant difference but no case with the Makita.
Oh, and get Mirka sanding sheets from Axminster. They last much longer.
That Metabo is almost bang on but it's only available as 110v
FFX have it in 240v for a smidge more
Mirka Abranet discs are great for improved dust extraction.
I've got a Mirka Deros which I love, but Peter Millard reviews a copy.
Good lord, dust extraction, that does improve the experience really quite a lot.
That's proven to be a good addition.
I’m going with the Metabo SXE 450
It does actually have quite a lot of work to do so figure it’s worth spending a bit more.
What exactly is it you're intending on sanding ?. I only ask because we didnt explore the belt sander option.
Worktop/desk, some parts of doors (with a detail sander), cabinets, and depending on how heavy it is, some skirting boards.
Possibly some smallish sections of wood floorboards, but if anything serious needs doing there I'll be off to HSS.
I "think" for the amount of material I'm expecting to take off. A belt sander might be too aggressive. A lot of this will be refinishing.
Rather than starting a new thread, I need a drill and possibly a jigsaw, and a router would be a nice to have..
I found this modular kit but cant seem to find it for sale anywhere - anyone reccomend something simmilar?
Just for light home DIY use, nothing too heavy:
https://www.blackanddecker.com/product/bdcdmt1206kitc/matrixtm-20v-max-6-tool-cordless-combo-kit-storage-case?tid=585826
Thanks
They are good for heavy stock removal, with something like a 40/60/880 grit belt. But you can get belts at a finer grit, im using 150mm (Makita 9911) If you're sanding hardwood like oak, its a handy bit of kit
@Matty.
Seems to be on sale in the US, as all the listings I can find are quoted in $$$. So maybe not available here. Price seems to equate to £200.
For a modular system, I reckon your best bet would be Ryobi. And they've got a hell of a range of tools.
Ryobi starter kit - £199
Thanks..hmm might look at second hand stuff, but that poses issues as might get duff batteries and I don't want to buy anything thats been nicked out of someones van!
Is there a tool club near you?
I have this just down the road... https://www.theecologycentre.org/tool-library
Jigsaw blades, do good ones make much of a difference?
I basically have no room for a bandsaw. So end up using a jigsaw for certain jobs and tidying it up afterwards.
E.g. I made some Gallows shelf brackets copying a shelf put up by the previous home owner, where the top of the wall facing part comes through a notch in the shelf, this raised part has a screw for mounting to the wall. This requires a notch cutting i to the shelf.
The blades I have are some dirt cheap B&Q jobs found in the shipping container tool emporium, the Jigsaw is an old but seemingly decent "borrowed" Bosch Professional thing. Am i going to see much of an improvement in cut quality with decent blades?