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there is no way of measuring this as there is not athat's pretty much the equivalent of invoking Godwin's Law, right there
nearlylikeagoodwinometer
And I was quoting someone whose opinion I'm going to take over some internet nonentity, every day of the week. Take it up with him
To fair keithr you are clearly remarkably clueless about the subject that you are trying to discuss.
You make the claim that the Morning Star is 'further to the left' than the Socialist Worker because someone has told you some bollocks that it runs articles extolling the virtues of single-party North Korea, and yet if you knew what you were actually talking about you would know that the Socialist Worker completely rejects change through elections.
If you accept that all print media is struggling a new player is not going to make it into the market so you are left with what there is. Trying to say Murdoch has no real influence is crap, he supported where his interests were best served. for a time that was with Labour and Blair. He used his papers to deliver in exchange for what he wanted.
Now we will all have to accept that papers do exist that are on the left, their circulation is there but those people also can get their information from other sources, like the BBC etc. when I scroll down my newsfeed there are less print sources and more broadcasters in it these days.
As a related story
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/19/trump-press-coverage-sets-new-standard-for-negativity-study.html
They looked at the coverage that was presented, the majority was much more negative - not hard to see where the majority of the stories coming out are actually failures and bad news. Fox news managed only 50/50 good vs bad and as observed by a few others to achieve that they have had to ignore several major stories and not cover them at all. Remind me who runs that truth seeking network?
Anyway back on topic... the level of the personal attacks show that they really don't want to talk policy and are certainly not comfortable standing by all of theirs.
No wonder public opinion is changing.
@mike Corbyn (especially but McDonnell too) is Labour's weaklink so the election campaign was ALWAYS going to be about him vs May
On Terrorism here is a quote from a parent. This is why JC's comments where so naive amd inflamatory
In a tribute to the teenager, her family said: "Her life was taken away after 18 short years by evil, evil men prepared to ruin lives and destroy families, for what?
"I wish I could say that Georgina is one of the last to die in this way but unless our government opens its eyes we know we are only another in a long line of parents on a list that continues to grow."
Germany has faced numerous terrorist attacks and it has been one if not the most supportive towards refugees and of course largely stayed out of Iraq and Syria. The Manchester bomber was an enemy if Gadaffi. Gadaffi was our enemey too. His brother planned an attack on the UN. Corbyn's statementt was naive amd incredibly poorly timed
One of the biggest things to do is accept the actual risks of terrorism, fanning the flames is dangerous and counter productive. Should we be heading to ninfans utopia where he locks people up without trial?
Should we try and tackle the real issues?
Given all the tough talk and all the shouting these things still happen. Perhaps it should be seen as a failure of the current PM and former home secretary.
Locking people up without trial is what Blair did. Totally correct imho.
The head of Israel's police said after Manchester that you have to make a difficult choice between freedoms and security. The right to life exceeds all others.
The head of Israel's police said after Manchester that you have to make a difficult choice between freedoms and security. The right to life exceeds all others.
Unfortunately as a country they don't seem to apply it evenly. How will a tory government change the current situation? What change will they make that will make the situation better?
Perhaps the right to life needs applying hard to the deaths of cyclists and pedestrians, deaths due to pollution etc. The assault of poor practice in H&S has worked so maybe that's a sign we can change.
Locking people up without trial is what Blair did. Totally correct imho.
It's a really good idea. I mean Operation Demetrius was the most successful recruitment drive the IRA ever had. 🙄
The head of Israel's police said after Manchester that you have to make a difficult choice between freedoms and security.
This is a false choice, as an Isreali should be more aware than most.
The thing is, jamba, if your favourite Tory authoritarians enact a whole raft of oppressive and intrusive legislation, what you gonna do if, despite your best efforts, the public elect an evil Marxist to be El Presidente? Do you look good in an orange jump suit?
One of the biggest things to do is accept the actual risks of terrorism, fanning the flames is dangerous and counter productive.
How did Sweden fan the flames?
Abbott car crash on Marr.
Abbott car crash on Marr.
Overweight black woman on TV alert !!!
Diane reannouncing Cameron's extra 1000 MI5 officers
[s]Overweight black woman [/s] [b]proposed Labour Home Secretary [/b] on TV alert !!!
and her politics change with her hair style
hair style
Hah - can't help yourself, can you?!
It seems weak n wobbly is sending xenophobic Rudd to do the upcoming TV debate. Is she so weak she can't stand up for 90 minutes?
Hah - can't help yourself, can you?!
I am still astounded that the person who wants to be Home Secretary has indentified a hair style as symbolic of a politics that campaigns openly for the defeat of the British State, but we are OK now as she has changed that hairstyle
It seems weak n wobbly is sending xenophobic Rudd to do the upcoming TV debate.
The debate's not til Wednesday - plenty of time for her to change her mind before then.
😆
plenty of time for her to change her mind before then.
It's so far out she could have a wide range of opinions in that time.
Terrorist supporter alert !!
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Diane Abbott on Marr 😯 😯 😯
Just caught it on catchup. An absolute catastrophe. I thought Amber Rudd nailed it when she said "I have changed my hair many times in 34 years but have not changed my attitude to terrorists"
I wonder what state the parties would be in if they ditched all those we perceive to be incompetent.
DrJ Abbot made the hairstyle reference, that's why we are quoting it
Abbott on Marr's show this morning another car poor showing from the deluded idiot. She wanted to dismantle MI5, supported the IRA with her lover Corbyn. Apparently a lot of time has passed and she's changed her hairstyle so it's ok is it? And has no regrets in saying what she has in the past!
Amber Rudd then came on and wiped the floor with her.
I'm absolutely furious with the Labour party, I have never voted Conservative in a general election and they have bloody well forced me to. It should be easy to beat the Tories, NHS cuts, welfare state cuts, privatisation etc etc but these 3 Labour buffoons are so inept it looks to be an impossible task for them.
I wonder what will become of Labour after the election, I'm guessing if he refuses to go another party will be formed.
@slow well Labour under Blair sidelined people like Abbott for good reason. Effectively they got rid of her from a national perspective
Aaaaargghhh - I find myself agreeing with Jamba again 🙂
@slow well Labour under Blair sidelined people like Abbott for good reason. Effectively they got rid of her from a national perspective
and then May gave BoJo the Foreign Office, about the same level of stupidity?
I'm sure in power he will have a few more to select from as they will have stopped flouncing.
I'm sure he won't see power
On another note, Corbyn was very good on Peston. Just made Peston's questions seem stupid (which they largely were) and gave clear and composed answers.. Whereas Fallon looked like the clown he is.
@kerly I will happily take your comments as representative, that's more palatable than listening to Robert Peston
@AD relax as its me agreeing with you 😉
DrJ - you seem to overlook the key difference between attending the launch of a new bus where the elected politician was present had renounced violence and engaged in the democratic process and repeatedly sharing platforms with people who are still committed to the terrorist cause and / or protesting outside court that the terrorist on trial are actually heroes and deserve our love and respect and / or leading petitions to give convicted IRA murderers better visiting conditions in prison.
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Whereas bojo hasn't changed his hair style but changes his views on terrorism with each light breeze that blows.
@j5min - I hadn't been aware that election to parliament was sufficient basis for absolution from sin. Has the Pope been informed?
The political point is though this is out there. People know it, people have made a decision based on that. The fact the right wing boys here feel the need to go on this rather than policy tells is a lot about the difference in the manifestos.
What I wished had happened was people had started to talk much earlier. That both sides realised they were in a war that was unwinnable. Hundreds of people lost their lives because both sides were unwilling to talk.
I hadn't been aware that election to parliament was sufficient basis for absolution from sin. Has the Pope been informed?
Shouldn't someone elected to the heart of one of the strongest democracies in the world be 100% opposed to sharing platforms and proposing policies that would undermine that same democracy they take wages from?
Assuming you're a medic, do you think it would appropriate for the leader of the BMA to share a platform with people who advocate the bombing of Hospitals and random murders of NHS Medics, Patients and their families?
Corbyn, Abbott and others have become millionaires at our expense all the while repeatedly affiliating themselves with those who would do harm to the constituents of their fellow MPs.
just5minutes - Member - Block User - Quote
I hadn't been aware that election to parliament was sufficient basis for absolution from sin. Has the Pope been informed?
Shouldn't someone elected to the heart of one of the strongest democracies in the world be 100% opposed to sharing platforms and proposing policies that would undermine that same democracy they take wages from?Assuming you're a medic, do you think it would appropriate for the leader of the BMA to share a platform with people who advocate the bombing of Hospitals and random murders of NHS Medics, Patients and their families?
Corbyn, Abbott and others have become millionaires at our expense all the while repeatedly affiliating themselves with those who would do harm to the constituents of their fellow MPs.
Abbott had some extreme views 30-odd years ago, May sells weapons to the Saudis now.
all the while repeatedly affiliating themselves with those who would do harm to the constituents of their fellow MPs.
Could be argued that ministers at the time were continuing policies that were killing members of their constituencies. Painting northern island as black and white is somewhere between simplification and trying desperately to try and score a political point.
Well ignoring your jingoistic drivel - I am not sure in what sense an unelected head of state, there by birthright, with an unelected chamber and a popular electorate that gerrymandered constituencies in ireland can be described as one of the strongest democracies - and if it is it can cope with a bit of open dissent]Shouldn't someone elected to the heart of one of the strongest democracies in the world be 100% opposed to sharing platforms and proposing policies that would undermine that same democracy they take wages from?
As for sharing platforms with what do you thin k has happened in Northern ireland and is it better for this sharing or worse for this sharing ?
FFS you RW have nothing else to go on about but do this - speaking to the terrorists is what brought about peace and your tory leaders did it whilst lying about the fact they were doing it and yet you still want to criticise the ones who did the same as you only openly and honestly
Overweight black woman on TV alert !!!
No shes a liability, everytime she opens her mouth Labour loses votes.
[quote=Junkyard said]
FFS you RW have nothing else to go on about but do this - speaking to the terrorists is what brought about peace and your tory leaders did it whilst lying about the fact they were doing it and yet you still want to criticise the ones who did the same as you only openly and honestly
The voters will make up their minds on 8th June, if it's a non-issue as you think then perhaps the public will see through it all.
its a smear and more of the lies win elections
i am sure the RW and their friends in the press are able to peddle and use lies to achieve what they want.
the election result will tell us nothing much about what the electorate think of this issue but , much like the Eu being anti democratic and wanting straight bananas etc I am sure the lies/distortions will have had some purchase or they would have stopped doing it and tried another approach
Still not much mention of the fact the tories did this and lied and that they have a convicted terrorist as a councillor ...i would not be as stupid as call them terrorist sympathisers for this or for negotiating with the IRA whilst lying about it. It was what had to be done to get peace
Diane abbot is a terrible politician IMHO and, even though I would be expected to sympathise with her, I would have done a Boris to her and locked her away to stop her digging a hole and jumping in it over and over again.
Presumably Jeremy also shared platforms with, met, invited over and commemorated the loss of representatives of loyalist paramilitary organisations as well?
you know, in order to promote dialogue and the peace process...
Nope?
Funny that...
Good to see of course that the lefties are getting their excuses lined up already - "Jeremy only lost the election because of right wing Tory lies" "the Tories wrote 'Jeremy loves the IRA' on the side of a bus" etc
You want policy?
Could a Corbynite explain why the bonds issued to nationalise the twenty odd water companies won't be government debt, I'm trying to understand McDonomics
Also who is going to take the write off of the market system for the non household competitive market which will close on nationalisation? How much are nine new billing systems going to cost?
How will the nine new companies raise cash for future investment? Will it increase government debt?
Good to see of course that the lefties are getting their excuses lined up already - "Jeremy only lost the election because of right wing Tory lies" "the Tories wrote 'Jeremy loves the IRA' on the side of a bus" etc
So you don't think tory lies have an effect then? You clearly can't dispute there are many tory liars, in fact most tories seem to be from what I can see.
Even when Corbyn had explained very well why he voted certain ways, what approaches he would use for terrorism etc,. 20 minutes later along comes Fallon on the same show misquoting everything he said and managed to derive that we would be more at risk from a terrorist threat with absolutely nothing to back it up, you could tell he just made it up on the spot.