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ninfan - Member
You mean like the 900 million pound Scott Trust limited? (Guardian and observer
Your point, caller?
Big money publishing house with big circulating tickets on the books, shock?
Isn't t that what Ernie was getting at?
We can add an inability to read and understand to your unique charms, Ninfan?
No one means no one.
And where was it mentioned he was innocent?
So Summary executions are fine in your world, instead of trial, incarceration and possible rehabilitation
I was right earlier then, you really are John McDonnell's press secretary
"disband MI5 and special police squads, disarm the police."
Summary executions
😆
Answer the question instead of the usual right wing tactics of evasion, is Judge Dread style policing fine in your mind and world view?
Go back and read the duggan inquest verdict (or, equally, the Azele Rodney case, or any of the others)
You're spouting codswallop
The stuff of utter moon-howlingly deluded idiots
You should probably step away from the canary and anotherangryvoice for a while
Indeed @ninfan, it surely must have been obvious to those voting for Corbyn as oeader that those wprds would haunt him
@AD May is not losing ground to him, its going to be a 75-100 Tory majority. You are guilty of getting suckered in by the newspapers commissioning "polls" to generate clicks. We saw the same thing in the Scortish Referendum and in the GE 2015 where polling was simply miles out from electoral reality.
I'm staggered that people are as naive as to think Corbyn's 'Stating the obvious' speech was original and different - British PMs have been saying this stuff for years, it's a completely mainstream view:
May spelling it out:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38776377
Cameron:
[img] 
[/img](Nicked from above.)
Regarding newspapers. I reckon newspapers reflect opinion far more than forming it. People buy the news that conforms to their own bias. The only journos I know are local journos and there is zero effort from them to form opinion. Their entire objective is the desperate need to write stuff people want to buy. I see no reason why the national press which is in terminal decline would have the luxury of trying to form opinion at the expense of readership.
Anyway, there *is* a left/centre left press, IMHO:
The Guardian
The Independent
The Observer
The Morning Star ( https://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/)
Mirror
Socialist Worker ( https://socialistworker.co.uk/)
it surely must have been obvious to those voting for Corbyn as oeader that those wprds would haunt him
Doesn't seem to be working though does it and as I said before yes it is obvious that the right wing media will be making up all sort so BS, skewing facts, taking things out of context to help May as much as possible. Do you think any of us are surprised by that?
May is not losing ground to him, its going to be a 75-100 Tory majority
Which poll, compared to any poll from 4 weeks ago, shows that May has not lost ground?
Do you actually even believe what you write yourself because nobody else does?
right wing media
https://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/support
https://socialistworker.co.uk/donation/init
Anyway, there *is* a left/centre left press, IMHO:
The Guardian
The Independent
The Observer
The Morning Star ( https://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/)
Mirror
Socialist Worker ( https://socialistworker.co.uk/)
Socialist Worker and Morning Star definitely aren't "mainstream", and the rest don't have anything like the political reach and clout of the Right-wing press in a currently Right-wing centric political system.
Newspaper editors (and their media mogul masters - think Murdoch) [i]unquestionably and significantly[/i] influence the political landscape, to an extent which utterly subverts democracy.
May is not losing ground to him, its going to be a 75-100 Tory majority
You made that up.
Socialist Worker and Morning Star definitely aren't "mainstream",
They would be if there was demand for them, that's what mainstream means.
You made that up.
To be fair, predictions of the future that aren't made up are pretty rare. No disrespect to Jamba but I think prophecy is probably not in his skillset.
I know what mainstream means - and there [i]isn't[/i] the demand for them what would make them mainstream.
SW for example, describes itself as:
a revolutionary socialist newspaper
and with the best will in the world, not even life-long socialists like me are caught by a description like that.
And MS is further left again.
I sympathise with what they stand for, but I don't read them. And I'm confident I'm not alone here.
No disrespect to Jamba but I think prophecy is probably not in his skillset.
Which is why it would have been better if he'd cited a source, or couched his comment in more... [i]aspirational[/i], rather than factual, terms.
Ninfan / Ulysses
I think you would both agree that you would want to see an end to police shootings of innocents. We have seen too many.
I think the reasons for each are complex and multifactorial. This is usual in serious inci9dents in any industry. The key to preventing more mistakes is to find out what happened and to remove that cause.
At the moment Police officers are under threat of criminal sanctions every time they use their gun. This will as a consequence make them likely to shade their reports to defelct any blame from them. The answer is to go to an airline type " no fault" investigation. If the officer ws too gung ho / hyped up and shoots an innocent ( medezes) why did that happen? A failure of training? Selection? Briefings?
Only when we find out the truth will we be able to stop these things happening. Only if we remove the threat of criminal sanctions for mistakes will we be able to find the truth
the same should apply to medical mistakes as well.
and with the best will in the world, not even life-long socialists like me are caught by a description like that.And MS is further left again.
I sympathise with what they stand for, but I don't read them. And I'm confident I'm not alone here.
So you don't want a left wing news source yourself. ...but you do want there to be a leftwing news source with massive sales.
What about the centre-left press - Guardian/Observer/Mirror? Make my day and tell me you don't buy them because they're not left enough!
Jamba - I'm not getting suckered by anything. From my previous posts you know I am no fan of Corbyn (although the tories are actually making Corbyn appear more statesmanlike because of their personal attacks).
I also have little doubt the tories will win however I just don't want to see May and her cohorts deciding they have a mandate for hard brexit and indeed any other insanity they can think up.
I think it would be hilarious if May ended up with a smaller majority because of her gamesmanship but am under no illusions to its likelihood.
Which is why it would have been better if he'd cited a source,
Isaiah?
It must be a tough gig, being an armed officer.
Hard to imagine [i]not[/i] being hyped up in a life-or-death situation, and personally I'm not averse to their presence on the streets.
It's the lesser of two evils, I think (although I found myself rather ambivalent about the the sheer number of guns on the streets when I was down in London a few months back - don't get many of them here in Blyth!) and I am sure that the [i]message[/i] their presence sends to the public is a broadly positive, reassuring one.
So you don't want a left wing news source yourself. ...but you do want there to be a leftwing news source with massive sales.
Impressively, I never said either of those things.
I thought my point was clear enough, but for the avoidance of any doubt: there is an imbalance of power in the media which strongly favours the right; and these media often support overt and covert agendas that suit their (Right-wing) owners to the extent that those agendas influence government policy.
And
I once asked Rupert Murdoch why he was so opposed to the European Union. 'That’s easy,' he replied. 'When I go into Downing Street they do what I say; when I go to Brussels they take no notice.
For example.
And in return, these media support the Right wing government that shares its interests.
I am sure that the message their presence sends to the public is a broadly positive, reassuring one.
I very much doubt that in large parts of our cities
@keithr as a few of us have said, if left leaning people bought papers there would be a different slant. The press in France is predominantly left leaning and markedly so.
Blaming the press is getting a pretty old and if I may say so a lame excuse. Blair won 3 times.
Labour's biggest issue in this election is Corbyn. The right where keen to see him elected for good reason. The Labour Partiy's senior experienced politicians warned that this would be how it worked out.
You made that up.
Yup, thats my prediction having spent a bit of time looking at "marginal" seats especially where the Kippers are likely to vote Conservative. Swing in Scotland is going to be significant too, SNP have misplayed the Indy Ref2 / EU angle.
You cannot compare newspapers that are political as their primary goal (i.e. Socialist Worker, the clue is in the title!) with tabloids that happen to be owned by right wing billionaires who use then to pervert democracy.
You would need to find what the readership figures are like for "Conservative today" or whatever a Conservative dedicated newspaper would be called to match the left wing papers. Presumably there is a paper like that but it is not being bought by anyone.
There are no left wing tabloids because there are no left wing tabloid owners. If there was a left wing tabloid filled with all the crap you see in the Sun or the Mail then that would sell to. The problem would be finding a left wing view that is so divisive, racist, sexist, anti-minority etc,. as the Daily Mail.
I thought my point was clear enough, but for the avoidance of any doubt: there is an imbalance of power in the media which strongly favours the right;
Yup, it's a straightforward enough point and in no way contradictory to mine which is that I'm staggered that you're complaining about low circulation of left wing media when you yourself don't support the left wing media because it's not really your cup of tea.
There's media to suit every political bias, if circulation is low for media with one point of view the only people likely to improve that circulation are people with that point of view.
Blair won 3 times.
You may want to look up how he handled the press/made deals before his first election win. The press control a high number of peoples political thinking and not sure why you cannot see that.
Without the press behind Brexit it would never has got voted for as that slim majority would have easily swung the other way, but you know that too.
[url= http://southendnewsnetwork.com/news/shame-for-corbyn-as-source-confirms-labour-leader-had-curry-with-skeletor-in-1991/ ]Another right wing press Corbs exposé[/url]
There are no left wing tabloids
The Mirror?
keithr - MemberAnd MS is further left again.
You are very seriously mistaken if you think the Morning Star is "further left" than the Socialist Worker.
For example the Morning Star has [i]always[/i] supported the election of a Labour government, even when the party was led by Tony Blair. In contrast the ultra-left, such as the the SWP, has [i]always[/i] failed to support the election of a Labour government, preferring instead to demand instant revolution, before eventually of course retreating into their comfortable middle-class lifestyles and voting Tory - being ultra-leftist is rarely a lifelong commitment.
If you think the Morning Star is further left than the Socialist Worker then I would suggest that you read some Morning Star editorials, presumably you never have.
https://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/editorial
I think you'll find that the Morning Star takes very sensible editorial positions and rejects [i]all[/i] forms of extremism.
I'm playing with the idea of subscribing to the morning star for the shop, to counter the right wing press bias
You are very seriously mistaken if you think the Morning Star is "further left" than the Socialist Worker.
In your opinion. Not mine. And I've been dipping in and out of both for around 40 years, ta.
I agree with Paul Anderson of the Tribune who described it as retaining:
"...its reputation for bone-headed Stalinism.It runs articles extolling the virtues of single-party 'socialist' states on a regular basis – North Korea, Cuba, China, Vietnam. Its default position on just about everything happening in the world is that anything any western power supports – but particularly the United States – must be opposed, which has led to it cheering on Putin, Hamas, Assad and a lot of other real nasties"
"Further left" is not actually a criticism from me, incidentally - no need to ride into battle on the paper's behalf - but SW tends to a more balanced, Real World view in my reading, so it plays better to me.
If that's OK with you.
It has nothing to do with "opinion". The Socialist Worker is very significantly to the left of the Morning Star. It's not the other way round as you claim.
Do you think it's also just "an opinion" that the Daily Mail is more right-wing than the Guardian. Or is it a fact?
It has nothing to do with "opinion"
No, it [i]really[/i] is - there's no such thing as Calibrated Leftwingometer.
Do you think it's also just "an opinion" that the Daily Mail is more right-wing than the Guardian. Or is it a fact?
Jeez...
The Daily Mail [i]is self-declared[/i] as Right wing.
The Socialist Worker is very significantly to the left of the Morning Star. It's not the other way round as you claim.
[i]In your opinion[/i].
I'm staggered that you're complaining about low circulation of left wing media when you yourself don't support the left wing media because it's not really your cup of tea.
And [i]again[/i] I said no such thing.
I'm not "complaining" about the low circulation of left-leaning media - merely observing the fact of it it.
And I never said I don't support left-wing media either - I said nothing at all on that point to suggest such a thing.
What I said was I don't read the Morning Star or Socialist Worker (I used to subscribe to the Tribune, for example) - but they're [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_left-wing_publications_in_the_United_Kingdom ]not the only options[/url] for people with socialist leanings and an internet.
no it is just is as ernie says just as it is true that the Daily Mail is more right wing than the guardian. They are not opinions they are just facts [ so your opinion is true or false ] one does not need a leftwingometer or a rightwingometer to know these things one just has to know what one is talking about
why are you doing three posts rather than just one - Just edit or do it one go please
[quote=Junkyard said]
why are you doing three posts rather than just one - Just edit or do it one go please
The man was on a roll, actually made it to four consecutive posts! Holy invisible edit button batman.
I'm not "complaining" about the low circulation of left-leaning media - merely observing the fact of it it.
Sorry, I thought you were complaining about it.
but they're not the only options for people with socialist leanings and an internet.
Yup, the content's there, what's missing is the demand.
The only leftwing tabloid pointing out Tory hypocrisy
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/six-times-tories-said-exactly-10511011
You're coming in half way through and completely missing the point, Junkyard.
Ernie's point about about DM vs. Guardian was as inane as you've suggested.
But he used that daft, self-answered question as a response to me saying that whether the Morning Star or the Socialist Worker was more left-wing, [i]was[/i] a matter of opinion and interpretation.
[i]And it is[/i]. There's no [i]measure[/i] of Leftwingness.
Following your edit......
keithr - MemberIt runs articles extolling the virtues of single-party 'socialist' states on a regular basis – North Korea
That's the sort of gibbering nonsense that Michael Fallon would be proud of.
North Korea is a quasi-fascist state, the Morning Star certainly doesn't '[i]extol its virtues[/i]', ffs.
Yup, the content's there, what's missing is the demand.
Yep, and that's partly because of the pervasive dominance of, and control over, the media and access to it, by the Right.
The man was on a roll, actually made it to four consecutive posts! Holy invisible edit button batman.
A flurry of posts chiming in and missing points left right and centre (puns intended) will have that effect...
was as inane as you've suggested.
no its self evidently true despite the absence of a rightwingometer or an SI unit of measure.
cool so corbyn is not more left wing than blair and neither is Marx as we cannot measure it.There's no measure of Leftwingness.
That's the sort of gibbering nonsense that Michael Fallon would be proud of. North Korea is a quasi-fascist state, the Morning star certainly doesn't "extol its virtues", ffs.
Bollocks, sunshine - that's pretty much the equivalent of invoking Godwin's Law, right there.
And I was quoting someone whose opinion I'm going to take over some internet nonentity, every day of the week. Take it up with him