Racist pubs? As opposed to pubs full of racists?
In the case of binners local, the Rose and Crown, full of misogynist homophobic racists.
And no it doesn't seem to have been the pub management policy to only allow racists to drink there. Apparently until that fateful day when binners had a "massive barney" with the other regulars it allowed at least one Guardian reader to drink there.
According to him it wasn't due to a change in management policy that he stopped drinking there.
Are we back to my local again? Blimey, you lot are obsessed
I actually provided a valuable public service for a while Ernie.
‘Wind the Guardian Reader up’ was a popular pastime amongst the ‘salt-of-the-earth’ regulars.
It was something I put up with for quite a while as it was mostly good-natured, but there was a straw that broke the camels back moment when it went too far.
What’s funny is that it sort of entered local folklore with the cross-eyed, six-toed inbreds, and as stories get progressively changed and exaggerated during Chinese whispers I get told the story back as if I was some Bridges-style avenging anti-racist superhero ninja and it all ended up in a mass brawl
I’m not and it didn’t (I stood up, got a bit shouty, delivered a few home truths, then sat back down and finished my pint and read my Guardian in an absolutely silent pub) but it is quite funny the suspicion I now provoke among the local gammons.
Chinese whispers
Burn him!!
What’s funny is that it sort of entered local folklore
I know someone who lives in Ramsbottom, I'll ask her if she's heard about it.
I’m absolutely baffled as to why all our resident STW lefties find me having an argument with some gammons in my local boozer a few years ago such an endlessly interesting topic of conversation.
I mean, I always suspected that living such a pious and worthy life must be fairly dull, but it seems I massively underestimated exactly how dull
And on that note, it’s not raining so I’m going to head out on the bike for a bit
I’ll check in later to see if anyone’s friends or relatives have anything insightful to add to this fascinating ongoing tale 😂
I’m absolutely baffled as to why all our resident STW lefties find me having an argument with some gammons in my local boozer a few years ago such an endlessly interesting topic of conversation.
To be fair the story gets better with every time you recall it!
You are now telling us that the fateful day when you had "a massive barney" with everyone down your local pub has now entered local folklore, you never told us that before!
It's also changing, I don't know if that's due to Chinese whispers. In your original story you claimed that you shouted "you're all bigots" before storming out of the pub, an eyewitness told you afterwards that someone piped up "what's a bigot?" after you had gone.
Now you're claiming that after you threw your wobbly you sat back down (presumably you had to stand up to deliver it) finished your pint and read your Guardian in an absolutely silent pub.
Which frankly I find even more hilarious! I have visions of everyone in pub sitting in deathly silence and looking at each other sideways wondering what the Guardian reading nutter is going to do next.
Plus of course the wonderful irony of someone who loses their rag and goes into a spectacular rant in a pub refering to the other punters as "gammons" isn't lost on me. I can't be sure what colour your face turned but I have no doubt that your blood pressure went through the roof!
And let's not forget that the whole incident which you claim has now become the stuff of legends resurfaced because of this comment you made :
I reckon Daz and bridges should join forces and form a new political party with a catchy title reflecting their values and aspirations. Something like “Voters? They’re all *s! Utter *ing ****s the lot of you!” 😀
Not a particularly clever comment if you were hoping that your own embarrassing indiscretions would remain forgotten.
Can you just clarify for me why you’re so absolutely obsessed with this incident?
Frankly, it’s all a bit weird
And has @grum had any word from his Ramsbottom sources back to throw any more light on the situation?
Because right now I still can’t get my head around why your devoting your time and energy to forensically analysing a bit of a tif in a pub in the north west of England that happened a few years ago
I gather you’ve been going back through previous posts to ‘fact-check’
Maybe your time might be better spent having a long hard look at your life.
Oh... I had a nice ride, if you’re interested. The trails are drier than I thought they would be. I finished my ride at the brewery for a couple of pints with a couple of mates in the sun, while you were trawling back through pages of a thread about Jeremy Corbyn so you could satisfy yourself with ... well... who knows? I haven’t got a clue. 😂
Read what I said, I think story is hilarious, and now you've changed the ending it's even funnier!
I also said that you having a go at a couple of people on here with your "Voters? They’re all *s! Utter *ing ****s the lot of you!” made it particularly funny.
Don't you like people taking the piss binners?
And you would be surprised how little I have to "fact-check" when it comes to your posts. Your daily rants are what makes an otherwise fairly dull and predictable echo chamber interesting, so I tend to pay particular attention to what you post and remember quite a lot.
Other posts tend to converge into a dull beige mass, yours stand out. I bet all the regulars down the Rose and Crown remember your rant on that fateful day!
Yeah I had a very nice ride too today. Although as is usually the case these days it was a club road ride. Down to Tanhouse Farm for coffee and then back to Croydon via Box Hill.
I was leading actually, although to my shame I lost a couple of riders just before Tanhouse, luckily it wasn't a problem as they knew the way.
Btw did you know that according to Strava Box Hill is the most popular hill climb in THE WORLD?!? That's a fact that is.
Pfft! It’s not even a proper hill. Why don’t you come up and do the Rake. It takes you not only past the infamous Rose and Crown but also my house. It’s only a 25%. It’s a doddle
I can take you for a pint afterwards at that legendary venue. We can do that thing that they do on Radio 4 where they bring back all the parties involved in seismic world events to revue their part in it
I’ll even throw in a framed print for you, comrade
It's definitely a hill, that's why it's called Box Hill (Box refers to the box trees btw)
But yeah it's a very easy hill, no doubt about that, well doable for most beginners. There's plenty harder than Box Hill on the North Downs.
The challenge isn't the steepness but how fast you can get up it. Today took an exceptionally long time and everyone had to wait for me as about a third of the way up I came across a fledgling crow unable to fly by the side of the road. One of his parents appeared to be on the grassy hillside which would have required him to get up a very steep embankment. So I got off my bike and carried him over so that he could get to his mum/dad. True story that. Surprised he let me do it tbh.
Yeah toying with the idea of driving up to Northumberland to see some friends sometime, so stopping for a drink at the Rose and Crown would be interesting. I would struggle to find a pub full of bigots near me.
Btw did you know that nearly 40% of Londoners, me included, weren't born in the UK? That's a fact that is.
Bratislava?
Why are you offering a random European capital?
Papua, New Guinea?
So, which night does Jeremy have the allotment committee meeting in the Rose and Crown Ramsbottom?
Is Bridges available to book to clear out racists from your local boozer?
Is the Croydon Communist going to do a MNPR from the Rose and Crown?
Read what I said, I think story is hilarious, and now you’ve changed the ending it’s even funnier!
Lol! So funny. The original 'story' had a strong whiff of a beef farm about it already, but seeing Binners fall into a trap entirely of his own making, is true comedy gold. Brilliant. 😀 At least it now means anything Binners claims can be disregarded as 'made up nonsense'. Good to have that confirmed in writing.
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Bless, Billy. You've had a very productive morning. Well done you!
At least Corbyn wouldn't just sit on his arse and do nothing to actually challenge racism...
At least it now means anything Binners claims can be disregarded as ‘made up nonsense’.
I'm really confused. Isn't everything on here made up nonsense? You mean some people say things they actually mean or which actually happened?
I know! There are some people who profess to care deeply and passionately about climate change who jet off on foreign holiday. During a global pandemic. To pick an example at random. Bonkers isn't it?
Jesus are you still going on about my holiday? 🙄
😀
Is this a private thread now? I live quite close to Ramsbottom and know the Rake and the pub in question (never been in), no word of the earth shattering events of a couple of years ago have gotten as far north in the valley as where I am, maybe it's the altitude.
the earth shattering events of a couple of years ago
Binners' imaginary pub rant, or Dazh's foreign holiday?
Where did you go, dazh?
Jesus are you still going on about my
holidayJeremy Corbyn?
FTFY etc
His brother is the leading light of the family now. 🙂
Can I hear some Shite said Fred?
(Not you Hutchy)
no word of the earth shattering events of a couple of years ago have gotten as far north in the valley as where I am, maybe it’s the altitude.
Maybe the news is blocked by the diverse clientele in pubs Bridges goes to in Rawtenstall.
Can I hear some Shite said Fred?
I think he burned his bridges with the mods a long time back.
Its like a Benetton advert up in Rawtenstall nowadays
The bus station earlier today....
I think he burned his bridges with the mods a long time back.
The name could be an ironic nod
Makes you think....
I live quite close to Ramsbottom
Is Dags a place?
This thread looks like a massive derail to me because Labour are so useless, and there isn't that much to talk about.
There is already another Labour thread somewhere. This is just for bitter recriminations and back-biting now.
I see corbyn has decided to go full putinbot
https://twitter.com/ChrisDYork/status/1554363180075425794
The picture might not work but the link certainly does.
And from the article:
The truth is that no modern politician has been more consistent or more prescient when it comes to Putin than Corbyn. Far from being pro-Putin, Corbyn warned against him when others didn’t.
And from the interview this week:
Pouring arms in isn't going to bring about a solution, It's only going to prolong and exaggerate this war," he asserted
He is wrong here. When he says 'pouring arms in' he's talking about arming Ukraine. And a failure to do that will allow Putin to stomp all over the country, pushing his imperial, fascist regime upon even more innocent civilians, and allowing him to think he's right.
And therefore, there has to be more much more effort put into peace
This is hand-waving guff. It's completely hollow. He offers no ideas, apart from a) not arming Ukraine and b) asking Mr Putin not to be a fascist.
I agree with Corbyn on some stuff, and did vote for him to be Labour leader in 2015 - but I think he's hopelessly in the wrong on this.
And - as noted in that tweet thread - he's also completely ignoring the wishes of the Ukrainian people:
https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1552292895092314112
Seems odd then that's he's willing to appear on a news channel that is pretty Pro Russian in it's coverage of Ukraine, and has repeatedly been accused of being funded by Hezbollah and of being a front for Iranian propaganda, supports the Syrian government, and has been accused of spreading anti-Semitic disinformation about the Panama Papers. I'm sure his reasons are legitimate.
But as Peter Oborne points out in your linked article Corbyn is a "failed politician whose time as a major player in British politics is over" We should probably just ignore it as attention seeking; like his brother.
Btw this is the interview which is being referred to:
Personally I can't see anything in it which I would disagree with.
Obviously people like Boris Johnson are very unlikely to agree, preferring no doubt more war-war and less jaw-jaw.
preferring no doubt more war-war and less jaw-jaw.
The Ukrainians certainly seem to want more war-war and less jaw-jaw. Perhaps we should help them fight off an imperialist aggressor?
Actually 85% of Ukrainians don’t want a negotiated peace that involves giving up territory.
has been accused of spreading anti-Semitic disinformation
Hardly a damning condemnation. Anyone who expresses any support for the Palestinian people, who ironically are Semites, will at some point be accused of being anti-Semitic.
Chris York writes for a magazine whose owner denounced David Cameron for calling Gaza a prison camp, which many fair-minded people consider to be an apt description.
Anyone who expresses any support for the Palestinian people, who ironically are Semites, will at some point be accused of being anti-Semitic.
No, it's nothing to do with support for Palestine, it's to do with George Soros and the Panama Papers revelations. This news channel like other such insightful and legitimate sights like influencers supporting QAnon were spreading disinformation about Soros as a way of confusing the story
The whole topic of the Ukraine war has its own thread, this isn't the place to discuss it.
I see nothing in the interview which Corbyn gave that I would fundamentally disagree with.
There is no evidence that Corbyn supports Putin, a man with links with hard-right and conservative organisations throughout the world, and whose oligarchs have bankrolled the Tory Party, not the Labour Party.
Corbyn is a “failed politician whose time as a major player in British politics is over”
And yet people still can't resist the baseless smears, even if it means reviving a thread which everyone had thought had died long ago.
To be fair it is to Corbyn's credit that his enemies still feel it is necessary to maintain the attacks on him.
I think in this he's a voice of sanity. Just, unfortunately, it's an insane situation and being a voice of sanity is just not useful. Probably 99% of the time sanity is the best option and our recent insane politics has been totally the wrong option but that 1% is a really important 1%
edit---- pointless snark
And I wonder if he had been around in the 1930s whether he would have been accused of being a fascist sympathizer?
But I think we probably all know the answer to that question.
Jeremy Corbyn has always been a pacifist who has been anti-war and anti-everything that is around war and occupation, he's been that way since forever and isn't going to change his principles, which is probably why he was just never going to win any elections, he has principles and won't forget about them to gain votes, which in politics is just not a good thing when you see the success the likes of Boris and Truss are having these days.
I think the Ukraine situation and the whole stop the war thing was just a no win situation for him and his followers, there was only two realistic outcomes, a big land based war, or an occupation akin to the olden USSR days, neither of which Corbyn is a fan off.
The whole topic of the Ukraine war has its own thread, this isn’t the place to discuss it.
Rubbish, if it's relevant it can be discussed - or at least that's your defence when you keep raising Starmer on every bloody Tory thread
I think the Ukraine situation and the whole stop the war thing was just a no win situation for him and his followers, there was only two realistic outcomes, a big land based war, or an occupation akin to the olden USSR days, neither of which Corbyn is a fan off.
I think this is a reasonable summary - and it illustrates the limitations of his position in cases like this.
Rubbish, if it’s relevant it can be discussed
Fine, if you think that this is the correct thread to discuss the Ukraine war then crack on. I am not a mod.
Personally I won't be using this thread to engage in an in-depth discussion about the Ukraine and what the alleged 85% of the population do or don't support. That was my point, but you carry on.
why do you throw your toys out of the pram when someone exhibits the same behaviour that you do?
Is that ^^ aimed at me? There is no toy throwing going on, I'm just saying that I'm not really interested discussing indepth the Ukraine war - if I was I would do it on the Ukraine war thread.
And by the looks of it nor is anyone else. So what is the problem, and why would it involve a pram and some toys?
Has the dreadful old narcissist Magic Grandad been missing the attention, despite the cult members/sixth formers/PFJ all tweeting him every day to remind him that he’s some kind of messiah, so he thought he’d pop back and remind us all how utterly detached from reality he is?
Thought so
Carry on…
Could it be that the reason that some people are so venomous when Jeremy Corbyn is mentioned is that for many he represented hope...
Instead we witnessed the lengths the powers that be will go to to crush those that threaten real change to the system
Instead we witnessed the lengths the powers that be will go to to crush those that threaten real change to the system
I think it's childish to resort to "actors off stage" and "conspiracies in the corridors of power" to explain the failure of Corbyn when the more obvious reasons are staring us all in the face. in 2019 lots of the electorate (for whatever reason) found Corbyn not to their liking, The manifesto was largely held to be unbelievable (the free broadband was a disaster on the doorstep) he (and the labour front bench) was unclear about what they stood for over Brexit, They took the votes of northern working class people for granted, and the election campaign was poor.
That's it, no conspiracy needed.
This thread was specifically revived to spread the patently false claim that Corbyn supports Putin.
This persistent false smear has been exposed as such by Peter Oborne, a man who is clearly not a huge Corbyn fan and, as you have pointed out Nick, he has labelled him a "failed politician".
Far from being a Putin fan Corbyn consistently warned of the dangers posed by Putin whilst other senior UK politicians either remained silent or cosied up to him and his russian oligarchs.
Which makes his appearance on a news channel that is one of the very few outside of Russia who are outwardly and predominately vocal in their support of Russia's invasion of Ukraine all the more odd, given his history of condemnation of Putin, no?
I mean surely the response to an invitation from them would be a polite; no thanks.
“actors off stage” and “conspiracies in the corridors of power”
Aye, sound...
https://twitter.com/ta_mills/status/1552032223158755329
That’s it, no conspiracy needed.
Aside from it has the obvious flaw in your theory of "in 2019 lots of the electorate (for whatever reason) found Corbyn not to their liking"
So how exactly did they conclude that? Did they meet him or was it what they read and heard on the news?
This is latest story is a great example really. The rather curious distilling of what he said into headlines designed to get people frothing.
Seems accurate in saying that just pouring weapons in is unlikely to end the war as opposed to having it just drag on as a stalemate (at least till Putin dies/removed from office and his replacement can use it as a handy excuse to end things) unless some diplomatic solution is found. I have doubts about one being found but its certainly worth some effort investing.
Corbyn put his faith in the Minsk agreement, and Putin not being worse than he thought, when that fell apart it just left two options, neither of which are really palatable for a pacifist.
The reality is that if Russia were to win and occupy Ukraine, history would repeat itself, tens of thousands would 'disappear', just like a lot of those in areas Russia occupies at present, Ukrainians aren't daft, they know it's either run or fight, the fact that the western world was shocked at the way this invasion happened tells a story, history will hopefully not look too kindly on the likes of Putin and Lukashenko.
So how exactly did they conclude that?
It's only one part of the reason why Labour failed in 2019. do you think they had a coherent Brexit strategy? Did you think they were a untied party ready for govt? Do you not think that they took great swathes of the populations vote for granted - and Corbyn was especially unpopular up here as the sort of I-Know-Best busybody out of touch London elite.
The problem I have with any conspiracy is the fact that it beguiles people to stop thinking about what actually went wrong. No one thinks Ed Miliband was a spectacular success, no one really thinks that Starmer is doing an amazing job, by excusing Corbyn's very obvious flaws who was both failed by his party and in turn failed to be a leader, those of us who claim to support Labour (our at the very least prefer them to the Tories) stop thinking coherently about how we should be doing better. There's more that unites us, etc etc.
This thread was specifically revived to spread the patently false claim that Corbyn supports Putin.
I imagine it was revived as he's back in the news so is the appropriate place to discuss the story? I could be miles off of course?
he’s back in the news
Is he? I wasn't aware.
He's in the news because of the same issue that pretty much made him unelectable, he sticks to his principles and doesn't really care about the publicity side of it, or that those who dislike him can use it as a way of demonising him, which they have in this instance. Corbyn has throughout his life fought against wars and oppression, both of which the Ukraine are suffering from because of Putin, so i'd seriously doubt he's a huge fan of Putin or any of his ilk.
YYYAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWNNNNNNNNNNNNN!
he sticks to his principles and doesn’t really care about the publicity side of it
It's true, imagine having a PM who has principles and sticks to them. We're clearly not ready for that sort of thing.
He’s in the news because.....
Fair enough, I must have missed it. Any links to the news stories which focus on Corbyn?
Edit: Just found this in the guardian.
The Guardian: Jeremy Corbyn urges west to stop arming Ukraine.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/02/jeremy-corbyn-urges-west-to-stop-arming-ukraine
Seems like some reasonable comments, whether or not you totally agree with them. Nothing in it suggests support for Putin.
The story doesn't seem to be carried by major news providers such as Sky or the BBC, although I could be wrong.
For someone fighting desperately against this so called conspiracy theory you arent half doing a good job of supporting the basic claims.
Did you think they were a untied party ready for govt?
Ermm you mean like the Labour establishment were doing their best to undermine him?
Do you not think that they took great swathes of the populations vote for granted
Not really no. Hence the problem with the brexit strategy trying to appeal to all people. Now if you applied this to the centrists you might have a point. Sadly though they havent learnt this lesson.
and Corbyn was especially unpopular up here as the sort of I-Know-Best busybody out of touch London elite.
Again and why was that? Was it perhaps because he didnt actually fit into the London media elite like Johnson or Cummings and got treated appropriately?
The problem I have with any conspiracy is the fact that it beguiles people to stop thinking about what actually went wrong.
Whereas the problem I have with your conspiracy theory slur approach is you are trying to declare certain issues beyond discussion.
Again and why was that?
Because he's a know-it-all busybody?
trying to declare certain issues beyond discussion.
Not at all, knock yourself out, just don't expect me to take it seriously I used to be a member of the labour party in High Wycombe in the 80's. There was one old member who carried around a tatty folder full of press and cuttings about Harold Wilson, he was convinced there was a conspiracy to remove him from power, and thought that MI5 was watching him.
Plus ca change, plus c'est meme chose
As far as I can tell, the last two Labour leaders and the current one have all been shocking choices, none of them seem to have or had a clue. I think until Labour choose a leader that is both inspirational and looks half way competent to the electorate; years of opposition beckon.
Ah, fair play, that is pretty much the exact situation we find ourselves in now, so I'm happy to dismiss the Forde report and the evidence showing Joan Ryan's collaboration with a foreign power.
Not at all, knock yourself out, just don’t expect me to take you seriously
I am heartbroken by the idea.
I notice you fail to address anything but just keep on with the gish gallop though.
Wilson, of course, is a rather complex area but one we are unlikely to get good answers either way on. There does seem to be evidence for at least some members of MI5 unofficially working against him.
It's all the "discussion" deserves.
Constant editing is always sure to spice up a discussion...
Kinda forgot just how cunning and dishonest some folk can be when it comes to politics...
Like many on here, I voted for Corbyn in 2017 but had despaired of him by 2019. Not because of his principles but because I thought of him as a failed politian even then. Nice guy but a bit clueless and too gullible by far, too busy digging holes for himself.
There is nothing in that Peter Oborne article that I have a problem with though, wether I agree entirely or not.
Had Corbyn done the honorable thing and resigned after losing the first time than he might be a more respected voice now.
Ah, fair play, that is pretty much the exact situation we find ourselves in now, so I’m happy to dismiss the Forde report and the evidence showing Joan Ryan’s collaboration with a foreign power.
This was of course in response to your original post, prior to the edit...
I was hearing last night, no paper evidence or names, that there's a possibility that Jeremy Corbyn might run for Islington North or for Mayor of London. That could be fun and give people a bit (!) more of a real choice. The mayor role would allow for a more widespread team of door-knockers and canvassers. Will they drag up all that AS nonsense again or will it be down to the price of his raincoat or ULEZ?
He would have a reasonable chance of getting re-elected as MP. He seens to be well-regarded locally as a working constituency MP. It depends on how much the electorate like him and remember his name compared to the Labour brand. He would get demolished in mayoral elections.
As to whether anti-semitism becomes a major issue again, I suppose it depends what his attitude to anti-semitism is going to be. Will he write any more forewords to books without mentioning the anti-semitism within? Is he gonna present any more TV shows for Iranian state media? Is he gonna call for anti-Semitic graffiti to be preserved? Will he call Hamas friends again and tell Zionists they haven't lived in the UK long enough to understand irony? It really is up to him.
Blimey, that was all well rehearsed. I think he'd stand a good chance on a mayoral election. The LP's resonse I imagine would be ferocious.
Blimey, that was all well rehearsed
Yup, Corbyn still poses a threat to "centrist" hegemony. They will never take a threat from him lightly.
Unfortunately if he did become mayor, I could foresee the PLP working against him with such ferocity that the people of London would be collateral damage in their efforts to undermine him.
So as much as I would like that message to be sent with him becoming mayor, it might be better if he just won Islington.