said no one.
Yup, I believe that Margret Hodges called him a "****ing racist", not a dirty racist.
said no one. He was incompetent as leader of a political party.
Yep. And if you want to go back and see what people were saying, I was saying we should close borders and lockdown back when we had 9 cases in February 2020. Admittedly I didn't get a slot on the news.
I believe that Margret Hodges called him a “**** racist”, not a dirty racist.
I believe that children are the future....
Sorry. Losing it here. Not on this thread she didn't which is what dazh refers to.
Yup, I believe that Margret Hodges called him a “**** racist”, not a dirty racist.
Is that the same Margaret Hodge who enjoys wealth and privilege as a result of her family owning a steel company which made millions in apartheid South Africa, from the brutal racist exploitation of black people? Oh, it is. Is that the same Margaret Hodge who promised homes for 'indigenous people' when pandering to the kind of people who voted for the BNP? Oh, it is. How inconvenient...
I dunno... I try to be positive... and off they go...
I try to be positive…
There's nothing positive in regards to Corbyn. He's a decent man who was destroyed by people who should have been supporting him. People say he was an incompetent leader or flawed character, and that may be the case if you define a good leader as someone who is ruthlessly focused on their own ambition and willing to manipulate others to achieve that. But just think for a second of the possibilities of having a leader/PM who shows compassion and empathy for people at the bottom, and who recognises the injustices and unfairness wired into our society. We've never had a PM like that, and I now doubt we ever will. Corbyn was a massive missed opportunity, and instead we went down the road of populism, division, selfishness and apathy. It's tragic really.
I was going to do trains next. Universal broadband (in relation to education) after that. But hey, if you can't say something good about the man, without setting off the ranting... I'll leave it.
I was going to do trains next.
Corbyn's greatest (and unwitting) achievement was exposing the right wing of the labour party for the cowardly, craven, power hungry and venal bunch of arse****s that they are. It's not an accident that they're tanking in the polls
He’s a decent man who was destroyed by people who should have been supporting him
Alternatively; he was and has returned to being a serial rebel that showed no loyalty to any party leadership before, and perhaps unsurprisingly others felt unable to show loyalty towards him when he was leader?
But just think for a second of the possibilities of having a leader/PM who shows compassion and empathy
But undoubtedly this was not enough appeal; given his cultural identity as a left-wing metropolitan liberal representing a 'comfortable' North London constituency, allegedly ‘a world away’ from the concerns of most uncommitted Labour voters.
For me, Corbyn's "failure" was his lack of commitment to the ambitious of leadership and governorship, and that ambiguity and the lack of engaging in the day to day business of politics...ie a lack of cohesion, visibility, and adaptability ultimately provided uncommitted Labour support with a reason not to vote for him. You can spread the blame around (and I'm sure it will continue) BUT at the end of the day, Corbyn tried to re-create the Labour party rather than lead the party he inherited, and folk can argue the toss about whether that was the right thing to do, but the outcome of that struggle between principle and power was already played out in the 80's and it was as ugly then as it is now, and some of the blame for that lands at his feet.
For me, Corbyn’s “failure” was his lack of commitment to the ambitious of leadership and governorship
That's how I saw it. I liked his ideas/way of thinking but a person to be the leader of the Labour party he was not. He was buggered right from the start with his past that was so easy to play on.
Anyway, didn't we do this whole discussion a few years ago. Are there not better things to discuss in 2021?
Alternatively; he was and has returned to being a serial rebel that showed no loyalty
There's an enormous difference between rebelling in a commons vote and calling someone 'a f***** racist'.
his lack of commitment to the ambitious of leadership and governorship, and that ambiguity and the lack of engaging in the day to day business of politics
Exactly the sort of approach we need IMO. If recent events have proved anything it's that politics and governorship are completely dysfunctional and unfit for purpose. Like I said, a massive missed opportunity.
Corbyn tried to re-create the Labour party rather than lead the party he inherited
All he tried to do was take it back to it's founding principles of working people representing the interests of working people in parliament. That's long overdue and absolutely necessary. A labour party which represents private and corporate interests is redundant and irrelevant, as Keir Starmer is finding out from his poll ratings.
he was and has returned to being a serial rebel that showed no loyalty
Or you could say he stuck to his principles. One of these assessments is positive, one negative. You could choose either. Aren't we always complaining on here that MPs just toe the party line and we get no representation? And yet here we are condenming someone for doing just what we want?
All he tried to do was take it back to it’s founding principles
I don't think Corbyn had either the internal support, the personal support, or the leadership skills to take on the task of remolding the party into something else. The Labour party's founding principles has always been an uneasy alliance between liberals and socialists, right from the difficult birth of the party. As an historian of the Labour movement; Corbyn knows that better than most. But as a party that at it's most successful when it's leadership has managed to "paper-over the cracks" then by that measure; he failed, and having been through the same thing in the 80's the idea that he thought he was the man to re-fight that battle is frankly absurd.
Or you could say he stuck to his principles
Oh for sure, one of Corbyn's strengths was/is that he's utterly authentic, and often spoke his undiluted and honestly given opinions, but the flipside of that (especially difficult for a political leader) was that many voters found his ideas not to their liking
well said nickc
that he thought he was the man to re-fight that battle is frankly absurd.
Any examples or evidence of him 'battling' the right of the party? All I saw was him trying to build consensus. Whether it was bringing MPs from the right into the shadow cabinet (many of whom refused), adopting a second referendum policy to appease liberal remainer centrists, or resisting calls from the left for expulsions of the likes of Mann et al who were transparently working against the aims of the party, he went out of his way to bring both sides together. And in return they called him a racist and destroyed his reputation. There was only one side fighthing factional battles back then, and it wasn't Corbyn or the left.
adopting a second referendum policy to appease liberal remainer centrists
To try and head off a monster of an election defeat...
Both main parties reacted to the split in support... Johnson was more committed to pulling voters back to binary voting patterns (and arguably had a much more straight forward task in doing so)... and the Conservatives are still gaining ground off the back of that.
But anyway... I just wanted to start listing examples of Corbyn being right... and maybe look at learning the positive lessons from where he has been shown to have been correct.
and maybe look at learning the positive lessons from where he has been shown to have been correct.
Like respecting the brexit referendum result? Not sure that's what you mean 😏
they called him a racist and destroyed his reputation
Would that be his reputation as a proper sanctimonious, self-righteous PITA? His 70's throwback dinosaur one? His dangerous Marxist one? Or his terrorist sympathiser one?
Like respecting the brexit referendum result?
Labour would have even fewer seats now if that path had been followed. Hard to imagine with the seat count they did end up with, but one of the lessons of recent years is... "yes, things could/can be even worse". People forget so quickly just how badly Labour were doing with their "better, but just as vague" Brexit approach. Yes, the Conservatives were doing even worse at that point... both parties had to change something.
Anyway... I've tried... positive comments about Corbyn, showing where he has been shown to be right, was my intention.... thought it might be something different to discuss... rather than go around the same old shit all over again. I apologise for my naivety.
All I saw was him trying to build consensus
Cool, so we both agree he was doing a pretty poor job of being a Leader then. It's safe to say that most of the PLP that Corbyn inherited didn't want to be in a party remade in his image. He lacked the leadership skills to influence the direction of the party, and lacked the power base (within the party) to effectively control it's messaging, and the MPs within it. If he went "out of his way" to bring the sides together then he signally failed to do that as well didn't he?
Part of the role of being a good leader is understanding the need and wants of the folk you're leading as well as "Follow Me" message that everybody feels they can get behind. perhaps the reason he failed to be a leader so comprehensively is that all the people he was trying to lead felt he wasn't the person they wanted to follow?
For me, Corbyn’s “failure” was his lack of commitment to the ambitious of leadership and governorship, and that ambiguity and the lack of engaging in the day to day business of politics…ie a lack of cohesion, visibility, and adaptability ultimately provided uncommitted Labour support with a reason not to vote for him.
Do you actually believe that rubbish? Corbyn was never going to be allowed to succeed, by the people who really run our society; the owners of global corporations, the media barons, and their assorted arse-licking lackeys. As Dazh has said, Corbyn's leadership exposed the venal scum that infect the Labour party, people who have absolutely zero interest in the needs of ordinary working people, and people for whom politics is just a fun game to play to further their own egotistical ambitions. Corbyn had the overwhelming support of Labour party members, but party members are irrelevant to the self-imposed elite who really control things. It was Blair who sold out Labour's values and principles, and installed a bunch of sycophantic malleable ****s who would do what they're told to by their lords and masters. There are some people on here who would welcome someone like Blair, but if that's what you really want, then just stop pretending you 'care', and just vote tory. If you do care, then forget Corbyn; the real problem you've got to knowledge is right in front of us. Labour needs to be rid of the Blairites and right wing scum and look to it's working class voter base for new figures to lead the party forward. Otherwise, it's truly dead.
self-righteous PITA? His 70’s throwback dinosaur one? His dangerous Marxist one? Or his terrorist sympathiser one?
Funny isn't it because yes he did have all those reputations among his right wing enemies (yourself included), but he still got enough party members to vote for him to win the labour leadership who were more bothered about his reputation as a committed campaigner and honest politician who wouldn't compromise himself in the way the likes of Andy Burnham and Yvette Cooper did. He then got more people to vote for him than any of his predecessors had for over a decade on the basis that he was on the side of normal people rather than a tiny elite, rather than the terrorist sympathising marxist extremist you'd have had them believe.
On the other thread you were bemoaning our broken political system yet now you've reverted to type. Please make your mind up.
It’s safe to say that most of the PLP that Corbyn inherited didn’t want to be in a party remade in his image.
And that's the crux isn't it, because the PLP does not equal the labour party. The PLP is largely an unleadable rabble of self interested narcissists. Is the job of the leader of the labour party to represent the interests of members and working people who organise themselves into unions and vote labour, or is it to maintain the power and privelege of a couple of hundred labour MPs and associated hangers-on? It's pretty obvious what Starmer thinks his job is, and it's why Corbyn is still so popular among the membership.
Funny isn’t it because yes he did have all those reputations among his right wing enemies
The very right wing enemies he had to beat. Can you see why he was not a good choice for leader now?
The baggage harmed him from the start and with his past it was all easy pickings.
And that’s the crux isn’t it, because the PLP does not equal the labour party.
But for better or worse; they're the only bit that matters.
Is the job of the leader of the labour party to represent the interests of members and working people who organise themselves into unions
40% of Unite workers voted Tory in the last election...
I reckon Daz and bridges should join forces and form a new political party with a catchy title reflecting their values and aspirations. Something like "Voters? They're all *s! Utter *ing ****s the lot of you!" 😀
“Voters? They’re all *s! Utter *ing ****s the lot of you!”
Wasn't me who calls them all racist idiots. I seem to remember when I suggested voters wishes should be taken seriously I was called a nazi sympathiser.
But for better or worse; they’re the only bit that matters.
Well lets be honest, given where they are now you can only conclude that it's for the worse. The trouble is labour MPs (excepting a small minority) don't really want to represent their electors. They want to be like their tory colleagues, lording it up and taking all the perks and priveleges that their positions enable. In many ways they are worse than the tories, who are more honest about their intentions.
Well, we've already established that you're worse than Hitler
Voters? They’re all *s! Utter *ing ****s the lot of you!” 😀
Wasn't that your passing shot before the door hit your arse on the way out of your local pub binners?
Have you gone back to say sorry yet?
I thought we'd managed to get past your obsession with my local pub and its racist regulars.
Do you want me to take you down there one night? I think the crushing disappointment of its reality is the only way to get you over your quite disturbing compulsion
I think the crushing disappointment of its reality is the only way to get you over your quite disturbing compulsion
You should both come to the Golden Lion in Tod, the racists, brexiteers, smackheads, stoners and craft ale drinking hipsters all coexist in perfect harmony 🙂
Do you want me to take you down there one night?
Are you allowed back? Have you been back to say sorry?
Tbh it would be a long drive but I think I would fit in nicely with the local clientele.
We could compare opinions of the mouthy git who draws pictures. And has blood pressure problems.
EDIT : You can rely on me telling them what a great guy you are, they just need to ignore the bluster, but I'm sure they already know that.
Go on ......go back and say sorry. You know you want to really.
Ah the clear fresh air of the Corbyn memorial thread 🙂
You should both come to the Golden Lion in Tod
I've heard it's full of bike magazine editors and other ne'er do wells, very unsavory
Are you allowed back? Have you been back to say sorry?
I'm hardly going to go and apologise to a bunch of racist *s for calling them all a bunch of racist *s, am I?
But I'll go where I like.
In an uncanny piece of timing Mrs Binners has just sent me a picture and the landlord has just put some picnic tables on the bowling green. Believe me, this is big news.
The bowling club (who are all the racist, homophobic, bigoted regulars) think they actually own the pub and the bowling green is more sacrosanct and revered than a statue of Winston Churchill or a signed picture of Nigel Farage, so when they see it covered in picnic benches they are going to go absolutely ballistic.
So we've decided we're going to pop down tonight after work, for a few beers and watch the fun and games unfold. It'll be worth the drive up comrade...
Collective blood pressures will be so high, I doubt they'll even notice me.
Edit: Mrs binners has just texted saying she'll meet me down there, and that she'll be sat on the table on the far right 😀
It sounds as if it'll all be kicking off tonight in your neck of the woods binners.
Angry bowlers, manicured lawns desecrated, and picnics abandoned......scary stuff!
Will make Croydon, aka Stab City, seem like a tranquil backwater.
Edit: Mrs binners has just texted saying she’ll meet me down there, and that she’ll be sat on the table on the far right 😀
I'm sure you'll correct her and tell her that she should have said "far centre".
Voters? They’re all *s! Utter *ing ****s the lot of you!” 😀
-
Wasn’t that your passing shot before the door hit your arse on the way out of your local pub binners?
Have you gone back to say sorry yet?
😀 Brilliant.
So you had a hissy fit, then flounced off. Rather than actually having the balls to stand up to racists. Who are still enjoying the pub. What a brave little soldier. Corbyn would wipe the floor with you, and he's a pacifist!
And bowling balls give birth to lignum vitae mallets. Top tools! Thank you JC.
Oh god! Not you too? What is it with you lefties? Now we've got two of you with a bizarre interest in the drinking habits of East Lancashire racists.
Shall I organise some kind of jeep safari for you to come and observe them in their natural habitat? Its not half as interesting as you seem to think it is.
I'd quite like a lignum vitae mallet. They're pretty expensive, and not common in the 'Thor' style head I use, I'm not a carver. Might be a tad heavy though.
a bizarre interest in the drinking habits of East Lancashire racists.
You obviously thought that the drinking habits of your local racists was important enough to bring up on the Hartlepool by-election thread.
According to you they represent typical voters in your neck of the woods.
Talking of your neck of the woods binners, how did it go last night, did it all kick off? Were scotch eggs tossed in anger across carefully manicured lawns?
More importantly did you say sorry for your unfortunate outburst on that fateful day?
I'm presently editing a short film I've made on the unfolding drama.
I've got David Attenborough in doing the voiceover in hushed, reverential tones as he observes the elder bigots at play, befuddled looks on ruddy-skinned faces they hunt the jack through the strange and unusual new habitat of the picnic benches, occasionally stopping and staring in wonder at the discarded Fruit Shoot bottle, sniffing suspiciously at the packaging of the cheesy Quavers
Lol!
I’ve got David Attenborough in doing the voiceover
"...And yet, even here..."
You're such a card, Binners.
So; the upshot is, that the racists that frequent your local, are still there. Meaning your hissy fit and flounce was completely ineffectual. You've ultimately done nothing to actively deal with the racism, and to make your local a place free of racist bigots. And you still have to suffer sitting near racist bigots, when you want to have a pint. Go you.
We clearly need a man of your caliber to come and sort out the whole issue. Someone fearless and intrepid. A superhero, if you will.....
Can we airdrop you onto the bowling green bridges... in your superhero costume... ?
And you still have to suffer sitting near racist bigots, when you want to have a pint
No that's completely unfair, binners has said that he drinks somewhere else now. He hasn't said how long he was drinking with racists before moving venue though.
And I don't know how you think one man can drive the Nazi hordes out of East Lancashire.
Give the guy a break.
We clearly need a man of your caliber to come and sort out the whole issue. Someone fearless and intrepid. A superhero, if you will…..
Your existence on this forum is pretty much limited to hurling abuse at people with different political views to yourself, blaming all and sundry for the failures within our society, yet when faced with an issue directly in front of you, are weak and powerless to actually do anything about it. Listen mate; if anyone made any kind of racist comment in any pub I drink in, they'd be needing to find somewhere else to drink. End of.
I can see how someone as weak and ineffectual at actually dealing with anything, like Armrest, appeals to you.
*swoons*
Oh great, that's the ear worm for the afternoon...
Listen mate; if anyone made any kind of racist comment in any pub I drink in, they’d be needing to find somewhere else to drink. End of.
On my god. That belly laughing properly tweaked my broken rib. Ouches.
Oh great, that’s the ear worm for the afternoon…
Bang out of order if you ask me. Binners, you should be ashamed.
they’d be needing to find somewhere else to drink.
That's proper fighting talk!!
But wouldn't it be a bit miserable for binners to be sitting all alone in an empty pub with just his pint for company?
I think relocating to a pub which welcomes Guardian readers was a sensible move.
On my god. That belly laughing properly tweaked my broken rib. Ouches.
You poor sausage. How did you break it, was it through an act of passive aggression?
I think relocating to a pub which welcomes Guardian readers was a sensible move.
No you're right. It must have been quite terrifying for Binners, to be surrounded by doddery old gammons. They might have demanded he cut his hair or something.
Hair?
Hair?
> ouches <
I don't normally frequent this type of thread but my interest has been piqued. A quick Google would suggest that the Bowling Green in question is almost triangular. WTF?
Yeah hair binners. Have you had your hair cut recently?
Not on his head.
And have a bath.
& get a proper job
A quick Google would suggest that the Bowling Green in question is almost triangular. WTF?
It's not just triangular, It's actually quite a feet of engineering. At its furthest point from the pub, it's actually about 25 ft above the level of the road below. This is quite inconvenient for my friend Clare because it means that it blocks the sunlight to her back garden from about 7pm onwards in the summer
I'm not sure whether those responsible for its construction were racists or not, so I'm unsure whether i can desecrate their memories by implying it, or whether Bridges will need to come to East Lancs and wee on their gravestones out of the sheer frustration of not being able to duff them all up personally and drive their restless spirits out to a pub with an inferior bowling green. Probably a boring old square one with no picnic benches.
It could well have been constructed using migrant labour in which case maybe he could recreate some traditional folk activities from their native shores as a testimonial to their sacrifice, while standing on one of the picnic benches, then maybe treat himself to a lemonade and some Monster Munch in their honour? Or if they were from the Congo, perhaps some Um Bongo
the Bowling Green in question is almost triangular. WTF?
It comes as no surprise to me.
You do know that Nazi concentration camps where generally built in be triangular, don't you?
Oh for sure, one of Corbyn’s strengths was/is that he’s utterly authentic, and often spoke his undiluted and honestly given opinions, but the flipside of that (especially difficult for a political leader) was that many voters found his ideas not to their liking
Actually I'd dispute this. Most people are in favour of sticking it to the elites and making the fat cats pay their fair share, etc. However, most people are pretty malleable, so their views on Corbyn - "nice ideas but unworkable", "taking us back to the 70s and strikes", "he has no clue how to lead" etc etc - were planted in their minds by the media. It's well known that you need the media on-board to win elections, so it should be fairly easy to accept that the opposite is true.
@binners, didn’t the give us free chips after a snowy MNPR? You just can’t tell with some people.
Perhaps they should wear armbands and snazzy uniforms like in the old days. Although the boots would have to be soft soled to avoid cutting up the turf.
We did indeed get free chip butties after the legendary Snowmageddon MNPR ride. That was when Julie was landlady, who was lovely, and before the Waffen SS and Nick Griffin took over
whether Bridges will need to come to East Lancs
Funnily enough, I was in East Lancashire not so long ago, in a place called Rawtenstall, don't know if you know it. I of course very amusingly translate this as 'Rotten Stool', which I think, and I'm sure you'll agree, is hilarious. Anyway, my fantastic humour aside; I was pleasantly surprised at how reasonably multicultural and integrated it seemed. I'd imagined some sort of neglected backwater full of 'you ain't from round 'ere' types. No, not at all. There were even a few Guardian reading types, if you know what I mean. Perhaps you might think of moving there Binners, if you're scared of the locals where you currently live?
Perhaps you might think of moving there Binners, if you’re scared of the locals where you currently live?
Rawtenstall?
Slipper-chuckers?
Its 2 miles away
If you're up here again you could pop over. It won't be far for you to travel to deliver your great vengeance and furious anger on those who would attempt to poison and destroy your brothers.
You could check out the bowling green. Its quite something.
if anyone made any kind of racist comment in any pub I drink in, they’d be needing to find somewhere else to drink. End of.
Outside of the most hipsterish bits of Manchester, I don't think I've ever been in a pub where there hasn't been at least one racist. Quite frankly I'd prefer to have a quiet pint than be fighting all the time. Back home in Newcastle where they still use the words p and d** in normal everyday conversation I'd be strung up for challenging their parochial views. You must live somewhere very posh and/or be very large.
Slipper-chuckers?
There is an abundance of charity shops, it must be said.
It's unlikely I'll ever visit again, as I can't foresee ever needing to. But I can recommend Old Man Greenwood's pie, fish and chip shop, as they do excellent freshly baked pies there. do you like pies? You seem like a man who would like a pie. There is a Greggs, but there is little need when OMG's is far, far superior to that processed muck the popular 'bakery' chain produces. Next door to OMG's is a temperance bar, but that might not be quite your cup of tea. I cannot vouch for the clientele, whether they are racist or not. The Red Lion just up on the corner of Dobbins Lane and Newchurch road was very pleasant though. Rawtenstall also has a 'Bacup' road just in case the Main road isn't working. Geddit? 😀 One week only folks...
You must live somewhere very posh or be very large.
Why do people assume that the only way to deal with racism is through violence? My fighting days are over mate; I left that in the 90s with the BNP etc. Young man's game. I am very fortunate to now live in an area where, thanks to lefty do-gooders like Jeremy Corbyn, racism and other forms of xenophobia and prejudice aren't tolerated anywhere. Racists are exposed as cowardly idiots, and either have to change their ways, or **** off.
Blackpool?
Blackpool?
lol I found that a very entertaining 5 mins, catching up on this thread!
Or if they were from the Congo, perhaps some Um Bongo
Oh, a different ear worm....
Blackpool?
Why do people assume that the only way to deal with racism is through violence?
It's not that dealing with racism requires violence, more that in many places up here any peaceful means would usually end up that way. Especially up in the toon, where just the merest hint of disapproval will start the whole 'who d'ye think yee aar like?' argument which if not handled carefully will end up with a glass in your face. Thankfully you can usually avoid the racist places by going anywhere where the beer costs more than £4 a pint. I've never seen a racist drinking a schooner of sour IPA costing 6 quid 🙂
You can spot these race hate watering holes a mile off, and its not the cost of the beer(or yellow piss water) but by the number of bouncers on the door. 4-6, avoid like the plague.
Racist pubs? As opposed to pubs full of racists?
Try the Duke Of York just round the corner from Singletrack Towers.
Genuinely nasty when I lived there.
Stinks of piss too.
Good juke box though.