I wouldn’t see it as appropriate for them to be members of an organisation that’s purpose is to promote any country tbh,
prepare to hsve your mind blown then: here's 180 pages of nation specific All Parliamentary Groups:
I only looked at the first two but they don't have the stated aim of promoting a particular country, which Labour Friends of Israel does.
Promoting better relationships and understanding is one thing, promoting a country is another.
And Starmer did receive significant funding from a pro Israeli lobbyist before the leadership election, which he didn't disclose. He describes himself as a Zionist. It's not anti Semitic to suggest there is a powerful Israeli lobby that has influence in UK politics - that's not the same as saying Jews are secretly in control of everything. Some people on both sides seem to struggle with the difference between those two.
I guess I'm not allowed to talk about this either without someone calling me anti semitic
An Israeli embassy official who plotted to “take down” MPs regarded as hostile has also set up a number of political organisations in the UK that operated as though entirely independent.
Shai Masot was filmed covertly as he boasted about establishing several groups, at least one of which was intended to influence Labour party policy, while appearing to obscure their links to Israel.
But unless you are 100% fine with all this you are a Jew-hating socialist dinosaur etc etc
One is a decision the party leader can make, the other isn’t.
Whether or not the leadership can make the decision is in dispute.
Whether or not they should is a different matter. There doesn't seem to be much point in holding disciplinary hearings if their findings are subordinate to the whims of the leadership.
The BBC have just said that Grandad was told that if he said sorry for his initial (stupid and insensitive) comments about the report when it was published, then it'd all be fine and he could return to the Labour whip.
He was offered that by Starmer and was urged to do so by John Macdonell
He refused.
Corbyn chose this fight.
Ever the victim. He'll be revelling in his martyrdom
You got grandad and matyrdom in there, but nothing about sixth-formers or allotments.
3/10. Must try harder.
You got grandad and matyrdom in there, but nothing about sixth-formers or allotments.
3/10. Must try harder.
He also made the point that Corbyn chose to have this entirely unnecessary fight.
He also made the point that Corbyn chose to have this entirely unnecessary fight.
I think we've ample evidence that the anti-Corbyn cult doesn't permit more than one idea to be entertained.
Well… Len McClusky says that Corbyn is being persecuted…
“ The continued persecution of Jeremy Corbyn, a politician who inspired millions, by a leadership capitulating to external pressure on Party procedures risks destroying the unity and integrity of the Party. ”
I'm pretty sure that just because Len disagrees with this decision, it's not automatically right.
What’s the right decision? I’d have rather seen Starmer give him the whip back, but any decision now will have a damaging effect on Labour. The “unity” of the party was thrown under the bus by Corbyn on the day the report was published. He’s not really doing much right now to try and fix that, is he? And, unsurprisingly, nor is McCluskey.
The right decision would have been to decide something and stick to it. Unfortunately Starmer has failed to shut this down:
https://twitter.com/michaeljswalker/status/1329060705287475200
The continued persecution of Jeremy Corbyn, a politician who inspired millions,
I mean, Mussolini "inspired millions" - I've seen stronger credentials for a Labour politician...
The right decision would have been to decide something and stick to it.
the right decision would have been to push him though the new independent process. Then accept the results
The continued persecution of Jeremy Corbyn
Just the normal gentle reminder that the EHRC report was about the persecution of Jewish people, not Jeremy Corbyn
The right decision would have been to decide something and stick to it.
That would still have been damaging… Corbyn has messed this up for Starmer, Rayner, Labour … and possibly all of us … it’s a matter of Starmer zig zagging through the waste deep shit now in front of him … he can’t come through this clean, if it all now … do we think Corbyn cares? It’s clear Len doesn’t.
It's the reason he's ultimately a crap politician; he thought the report was unfair, so that's what he said. I don't think you can read much more into it than that.
As long as Jezza gets to play the martyr to his adoring and unquestioning idiots masses and Len gets to Tweet out his revolutionary zeal from his usual table at The Ivy, that's that pair happy enough in their natural element.
As for the damage it's doing to the party? Well... who cares?
Neither of those pair, that's for sure
The continued persecution of Jeremy Corbyn, a politician who inspired millions,
Hmmm... a persecuted former leader who's a bit of a narcissist, likes to think of himself as an inspiration to millions, railing against the injustice of it all, appealing to his adoring disciples while doing as much damage as possible upon being ushered to the exit
Has a familiar ring to it...
Is the killfile still a thing?
Corbyn is a ****. If he loves the Labour Party as he professes, instead of bitching and moaning and causing more division he'd accept the decision and try to calm his fans by telling them he would be back in time. Which position would probably actually hasten his reinstatement too.
Len McCluskey is as bad. I actually resigned from Unite the other week because of that arsehole's attitudes. (Joined Prospect instead though).
Is the killfile still a thing?
Admit it.. you'd miss me too much 😉
Meanwhile, in the Tory party
The Tory party has always been racist and the people who vote/support it are racist by association. Like trying to point out the BNP had a few race issues.
Oh well that's ok then.
What’s the right decision?
There's no option with a good outcome. But given a major finding of the ECHR was the lack of due process, you don't subsequently override the findings of a disciplinary panel just because they're politically inconvenient.
Agreed on the first point. The second hasn’t happened. Party membership and the parliamentary whip are not the same thing. The decision (I think right but foolishly hurried) about Corbyn’s party membership hasn’t been overruled, has it?
Party membership and the parliamentary whip are not the same thing.
I know that. So all we're left with is a decision made purely on the grounds of political expediency, as a disciplinary panel has already found that there wasn't much of a case to answer. The conclusion is that Starmer could kick anyone out on a whim.
Not exactly a good look for a party which is supposed to be putting its governance in order.
So all we’re left with is a decision made purely on the grounds of political expediency
I’ve said that I think the whip should have been restored… but then I don’t have the responsibly of trying to get Labour out of this shit. There is no clear path out of this. Starmer taking a judgment about Corbyn not getting the whip might end up being the right call, for Labour. Time will tell.
Politically, it may or may not prove to be the right call. But as I say, it's a pretty dangerous precedent.
The conclusion is that Starmer could kick anyone out on a whim.
only if you’re being deliberately obtuse. All Corbyn had to say was “I agree with these findings” and shuffle back off to the back benches where, let’s face it he was always happiest. It was him that decided this report was going to be the hill on which he dies, not Starmer.
Corbyn was offered a more-than-fair compromise by Starmer that anybody but him would have accepted. He was urged to do so not only by the present leadership but also by his traditional more left-leaning allies.
He refused that compromise. Somewhat predictably
So it was he who picked this fight over a problem that, lest we forget, occurred entirely on his watch, and for which he has been found responsible for by the independent EHCR.
So he's already been indulged far more than most people would be if they found themselves in a similar situation in any other walk of life.
He's a stubborn, self-righteous and narcissistic old fool, still in denial about the whole issue and his part in it, who once again is putting his own preening and grandstanding above the interests of the party. As he has always done, for decades
The Tory party has always been racist and the people who vote/support it are racist by association. Like trying to point out the BNP had a few race issues.
I think a similar argument is made about Israel - they're not as bad as their neighbours (Sasddam, Assad etc) so we shouldn't complain if they slaughter a few children here and there.
The Tory party has always been racist and the people who vote/support it are racist by association
does Rishi know he is racist?
only if you’re being deliberately obtuse.
Well no. The precedent is exactly what this means.
He’s a stubborn, self-righteous and narcissistic old fool, still in denial about the whole issue and his part in it, who once again is putting his own preening and grandstanding above the interests of the party.
This. Definitely this. Labour have lost two elections on his watch, one of which was an absolute arse-spanking by Johnson. I know many "traditional" Labour voters who said that there is no way that they could vote for him, he simply did not gain the trust of a good chunk of Labour supporters. MSM probably had more than a bit to do with this but unfortunately modern politics is driven by personality as much (if not more than) policy. If Labour are to get back into government then he and his cabal need to shut up and move forward with the rest of the party. If not then the Tories will be a shoe in for the next election and probably the one after too.
I think a similar argument is made about Israel –
similair to our own history of colonialism in countries such as Kenya, Malaysia; Ad nauseam
Why does JC still insist on wearing his chairman Mao/people's liberation army floppy cap? Stood outside his north London semi.
Optics dude OPTICS! Perhaps wave around a replica AK-47 or a vinyl copy of 'Sandinista!'
I think a similar argument is made about Israel – they’re not as bad as their neighbours (Sasddam, Assad etc) so we shouldn’t complain if they slaughter a few children here and there.
I've never said there isn't a problem with anti semitism in the labour party, and nor has Jeremy Corbyn. I just don't like the way the party has been unfairly branded as riddled with racism.
One of the things Corbyn has been accused of anti semitism over is that he wanted to stop arms sales to Israel (and Saudi Arabia) - the bastard.
FWIW I think Israel does receive an undue amount of attention from lefties, which is probably partly born out of/crosses over with anti semitism.
Len is all over the media again, gobbing off about the 'persecution of an honest and decent man'.
FFS! Every time that gobshite opens his mouth - and he really struggles to keep it shut - you can see the Torys polling going up in real time.
If a Daily Mail editorial writer could dream up the ultimate 'militant' lefty bogeyman to scare off voters, he'd struggle to come up with anything as effective as Len.
All this disparaging of the left, Citizen Smith, 6th form, etc doesn't really fit with my experience.
Marxist ideas and analysis give extra insights which are advantageous. There were two tables in the Manchester Union coffee bar which was occupied by various sorts of Marxists in the 70s where you could have a very good row with your beverage. Of the ones I can remember: one became a journalist in the nationals, one a tv journalist (and editor of Cutting Edge then Panorama), one became editor of Keasing's and The National Register, one became a professor at the university, one became a GP then practiced in war-torn Nicaragua then became a consultant epidemiologist (his research led to the Curried eggs scandal) and negotiator with Blair for the BMA. None of them wore berets nor were 'thick as mince'.
None of them wore berets nor were ‘thick as mince’.
They're the useful idiots complicit in over 100 million deaths. Lets not let then get to 200 million.
You need help matey.
f Marxists in the 70s where you could have a very good row with your beverage
None of them wore berets nor were ‘thick as mince’.
A lot's happened. How many would identify themselves as Marxists now?
Marxists in the 70s
A lot’s happened. How many would identify themselves as Marxists now?
Is this where we mention Claire Fox Baroness Fox of Buckley?
We could discuss brexiteer eugenics-enthusiast, Peado-apoligist and former editor of the publication, Baroness Fox of Buckley, or anyone else who worked for the the weird, toxic cesspit that was 'Living Marxism'.
I was a subscriber, and an activist, but eventually saw through them... contrarians pretending to want to make the world a better place... they just wanted careers in writing/talking/'politics'... Farage in different costumes.
[ note, this isn't a comment about the work of Marx, just on some people who hung their hats on his name here in the UK ]
My former uni flat-mate was a subscriber and some of his views I would describe as neo-nazi
If I was SKS, I'd ban the use of the following words in the Labour party;
Socialism
Comrade
Solidarity
Oh, and the silly raised fist twaddle.
Get that done and people will start taking them seriously again!
Get that done and people will start taking them seriously again!
While they're at it, they should seriously consider changing the name of the party. I think something that would convey a sense of stability and orthodoxy. Any ideas?
Get that done and people will start taking them seriously again!
Once again, a reminder that I didn’t vote Labour until Corbyn became leader… but… the swap from red flag to red rose logo was genius. Signifying that you are for everyone, not just those with a sense of being “of the left”, is key to success. Push your policies as being the ones that we all need, irrelevant of developing them based on socialist principles. Oh, and never surround yourself with communist advisors, even if you think their ideas can usefully inform some of your policy platform. So… policies from the Left… identify as being for all… people are far more scared of the idea of left wingers than they are of many of the policies that come from them.
Slight problem about Living Marxism in the 70s was that wasn't created till 1988. It is funny if a bit sad how people are so keen to dismiss and disparage from a standpoint of complete ignorance and in so doing they get in bed with their enemy.
Was Marxism just better in the good old days then? Like Wagon Wheels and white dog poo? When a Marathon was a Marathon and not a Snickers?
Then those bloody yuppies came along and ruined it with their big mobile phones and Gold Blend coffee.
I think this thread has turned into a bit of a vacuum for men of a certain age. It's worth the Labour party bearing in mind that there is a big resurgence of interest in Marxism, or at the very least some kind of Socialism, in people under 35. While the Marxism of the seventies may be dead and buried there's a new take on it emerging that will be important in future elections.
Slight problem about Living Marxism in the 70s was that wasn’t created till 1988. It is funny if a bit sad how people are so keen to dismiss and disparage from a standpoint of complete ignorance and in so doing they get in bed with their enemy.
Pointing out that some tossers in the 80s were Marxists I don't think was intended as a refutation of the claim that some bright students in the 70s were Marxists, mainly because the latter is a total non sequitur and who cares? Unless any of the Mancunian coffee drinkers are still Marxists, or anyone vaguely interesting for that matter. (I know the coffee bar in question having been there about the time of Aaronovich and Woolas, before they drummed me out for lack of interest in looking down microscopes.)
editing to include...
I think this thread has turned into a bit of a vacuum for men of a certain age. It’s worth the Labour party bearing in mind that there is a big resurgence of interest in Marxism, or at the very least some kind of Socialism, in people under 35. While the Marxism of the seventies may be dead and buried there’s a new take on it emerging that will be important in future elections.
Guilty as charged and ready to be educated....?
We had a couple of almost stereotypical Marxists in our local Labour Party in the late 80’s They would sit at the back calling everyone else either Trots or Tankies, argued among themselves endlessly, never bought a round and seemed only genuinely happy when everything was miserable, especially if someone had lost their job. Towering intellectuals they were not.
I think this thread has turned into a bit of a vacuum for men of a certain age
Isn't that just a summary of the forum? 😀
a bit sad how people are so keen to dismiss and disparage from a standpoint
The people behind Living Marxism, LM, Spiked, Institute for Ideas need to be dismissed and disparaged at every opportunity. Gobs for hire.
[ and not Marxists... but no one really is ]
t’s worth the Labour party bearing in mind that there is a big resurgence of interest in Marxism, or at the very least some kind of Socialism, in people under 35.
Big resurgence? How many under 35's are interested in Marxism and more importantly how many of them bother to vote? (Guessing they are waiting for the perfect Marxist party to come along before they will vote in the meantime continually handing power to Tories)
Books aside, I just don't like seeing workers voting for bosses and renters voting for landlords.
Books aside, I just don’t like seeing workers voting for bosses and renters voting for landlords.
If you're picking someone to represent you you're going to pick someone who appears competent.
If you’re picking someone to represent you you’re going to pick someone who appears competent.
That's certainly how the ruling classes like to present it and it's worked out pretty well for them even if they are later shown to be incompetent. Some like the people to represent then to actually represent them.
That’s certainly how the ruling classes like to present it and it’s worked out pretty well for them even if they are later shown to be incompetent.
Do you honestly believe that anyone voted for Boris Johnson expecting competence?
The choice offered this country last December was absolutely woeful. Truly as bad as it gets. A second rate journalist or a Marxist Geography teacher. You'd have needed your head felt if you regarded either of them as 'competent'
It amounted to "do you want your huge shit sandwich on brown or white bread?"
It will be Jeremy Corbyns eternal epitaph that he got his arse handed to him by said second-rate journalist in the most thumping manner imaginable
And at the end of the day, that's all that matters.
And dear god, aren't we all paying the price for that now?
Cheers Jezza!
Where can I get the killfile?
The ego has landed!
@corbyn_project
LOL
The web link on Twitter takes me to a Wordpress login page. Competency levels about standard.
It’s not 2:30 yet… hold your horses…
https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1337830166098227200?s=20
Nothing yet. Speaks volumes...
Been working on it since the spring… being half a hour late now, with something so big, isn’t really an issue… we’re patient. I mean, it’s not just going to be a big vanity talking shop project dressed up as a genuine practical attempt to foster peace in the Middle East… Tony Blair style… Corbyn is a politician of substance, that creates real change… and gets things done… not a narcissist professional politician who seeks the limelight for himself… like Blair…
Dynamic…
https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1338137725552177153?s=20
Got bored after 60 seconds… might save the second half for bed time.
Flashy - any thoughts about the imminent return of Field Marshall françois?
What about johnson being a duplicitous incompetent and the worst PM in living memory?
Or gove - another with the same character failings other than serial infidelity.
Both are drunks in charge of running a country - running the UK into the ground.
By comparison corbyn is a dotty old fella pottering about on his allotment and talking to the dahlias.
All true about the chancers and liars in the Conservative Party. And they all have their own threads, don’t they? It’s great whataboutery… but it does little of use in this thread.
Thank god every secondary school head can deliver their words with more enthusiasm and rigour than this man… a man whose policies I share more than any other Labour leader in my lifetime (including the current one)… but a man who is so clearly unsuited to running a party or a country. What is this “Corbyn Project” really for, apart from trying to defend the ego and reputation of an abject failure* of a professional politician?
The awful wipes that cover attempts to edit him for pubic consumption tell us more than the inability to stick to a self declared deadline and be ready for the response and take/sign up.
(*well, only a failure from the point of view of his party and our country… he’ll keep doing okay out of it personally and financially)
He really is the gift that keeps on giving. The name of the project is just glorious "the Peace and Justice project", that'll make sure that everyone associated with it gets warm and fuzzy inside. This comes across as the parody of a TED talk.
Human rights, does that include standing up against anti-semitism?
kelvin
Full Member
Dynamic…
😆
I didn't even last 20 seconds. Does he say "Strong emphasis here!" at any point?
Time to turn this into a "Jeremy Corbyn was right" thread...?
I'l start us off...
https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1239257257466122247?s=20
Time to turn this into a “Jeremy Corbyn was right” thread…?
He was right about most things. But boo! hiss! he's a dirty racist! etc.... 🙄
Binners is on the Cummings thread saying we need to reform the system which is what Corbyn and McDonnell were planning to do. It's very weird.
But boo! hiss! he’s a dirty racist! etc
said no one. He was incompetent as leader of a political party. Not everything he ever said or did was wrong. My issue wasn't with corbybism wetf that is. It was with Corbyn. Anyway, only replying because this thread is up at the top here. Let it quietly die.