I'd have more sympathy with the 'he's been a lifelong anti-EU campaigner' view if it wasn't for the fact that the vast majority of young labour voters who form his base are vehemently pro-EU, and he's far more pragmatic than people think. He's much more of a Kinnock than a Derek Hatton, despite what the tabloids would have us believe.
Perhaps he knows that a hard brexit is unacceptable to most people and has therefore decided not to pursue one
Again... can anyone point to a single shred of evidence to support this assertion? I think that this is just wishful thinking on remainers behalf, and Jezza is happy to go along with that, as he's letting the Tory's take the flak for achieving exactly the destination he's (misguidedly) supported for decades... a hard Brexit.
He won't openly state this though, as his core support would immediately desert him. Hence the ongoing silence, and his constant theme at PMQ's where he'll do anything to steer clear of even engaging with the whole Brexit issue.
And as we know, other than PMQ's he's either at his allotment or busy continuing the internal war to deselect 'Blaire' MP's and continue the Momentum takeover of the party.
Its beyond belief that faced with the open goal that is the shambles of the Tory party, labour can;t even open up a lead in the polls. They should be 20 points clear FFS!!
'Pragmatic' is definitely the word that springs immediately to mind when i think of Jezza
Perhaps he knows that a hard brexit is unacceptable to most people and has therefore decided not to pursue one ie delivering what people want.
if that is the case then what is stopping him for making this clear and removing any doubt. Because it isn't the case.
if that is the case then what is stopping him for making this clear and removing any doubt.
Maybe the same sort of things that have stopped the tories making anything clear. Brexit s not party political so you cannot win.
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RW press baron attacks Corbyn as marxist spy - what we need now is definitely momentum portrayed as some powerful reaching group with a credible world domination agenda
The power and the poodle is more accurately them and their paymaster.
Well drawn and amusing though the cartoon is it wont be remembered as a great work of propaganda.
Its beyond belief that faced with the open goal that is the shambles of the Tory party, labour can;t even open up a lead in the polls. They should be 20 points clear FFS!!
They were 20 points behind before the last election. Now you're complaining that they're not 20 points ahead. If the last election proved anything it's that polls are irrelevant. Given labour have the same variation in views across the party on the EU as the tories, I'd say they're doing an extremely good job on keeping a lid on their disagreements and presenting a uniting front. The tories could only dream of the same level of unity right now. And Labour don't need to do anything with the open goal, the tories are doing a great job of scoring own goals.
I think Binners is hoping for a great and true leader. Good luck, they don't come along very often. To get the landslide you're hoping for any Labour leader would have to be either a red Tory or a once in a century politician to overcome 40 years of dismantling society and get people to give a shit about each other again.
The tories could only dream of the same level of unity right now
there is no unity there is just silence they can do this because they are not in power
that said it is clear corbyn does not want to talk about it for two main reasons
1. he wants us out and keeping quiet/ being feeble in opposition achieves this
2. his personal view is at odds with the labour party MP's, the membership and momentum . he does not want to overplay his cards so being inept is his best [ to achieve his goals] choice.
labour is in as big a mess as the tory part over this hence why he cannot exploit their weaknesses to make gains in the polls. IMHO a truly anti Brexit opposition would be much more effective right now in terms of holding the PM to account. He is being incredibly weak
Wow even brexit-luvin tory fanboy Andrew Neil taking Steve Baker to task over the latest smear attempts on Corbyn from the right wing press thats been gleefully taken up by the Tories
https://twitter.com/aljwhite/status/966290767668039681
Has the Absolute Boy really been out of the news for a whole month?
🤔
Apart from sacking Owen Smith for undermining his position, yeah... 🙄
It’s a busy time of year on the allotment
Gutted about the Owen Smith thing, Jeremy and I are clearly diametrically opposed on Brexit, which means I'll have to vote Lib Dem.
Lol, it's been an 'interesting' week for Corbyn and his Momentum lunatics....seems they're actually the party of holocaust denial and anti semitism now...what a delightful bunch.
Twitter has been highly amusing with the most swivel eyed of Momentum members rabidly defending the indefensible because....stuff...
....watching them flounder over Saint Jeremy and his party of racists is brilliant, seems you can be an absolute scumbag with your views on Jewish people as long as you promise gullible members of the electorate free stuff.
He's holed below the waterline...middle England won't vote for him the way they did for Blair.
👎....bye Jeremy, you always were a massive liability.
gullible members of the electorate
I expect the irony is totally lost on you.
aye the hatchet job, they realised marxist friend of terrorists had not worked, has indeed been a more successful bunch of lies than what was previously spread.
However the weirdest part of a this is how PC and right on the reverently right wing have suddenly found themself and suddenly embraced multiculturalism [ lets ignore the latest , in a long line of, tory muslim dog whistle campaigns and the racist vote leave tweet on this ]
We live in strange times when lies are more powerful than truth. Corbyn is many things but a racist is not one of them. Lies are becoming more potent than truths.
they realised marxist friend of terrorists had not worked
Not a single day in his life.
Aspirational to his worshippers.
Its better to reply with full sentences rather than phrases
HTH.
Corbyn is many things but a racist is not one of them.
That is clear to anyone who can think for themselves but guess all this racist, terrorist rubbish must work on some hard of thinking people (in fact 2 have just posted on this thread in last 30 minutes)
Summed up nicely, as always, by the Mash...
Corbyn is many things but a racist is not one of them. Lies are becoming more potent than truths.
The outraged left have spent years weaponising the same language they are now defending - they excelled in calling people racist and sexist for any incidental slip of the tongue, misguided quip or innocent comment - it’s quite nice to see them falling over their own feet in order to excuse Jesus and his apostles for the very ‘crimes’ they created.
The outraged left
Classic. 😂
Confirmation, not that it was needed, that the extremes of both sides of the political spectrum are full of intolerant asswipes
I've been on here long enough to know that already unfortunately.
humanity is full of them though.
Summed up nicely, as always, by the Mash…
Indeed that nailed it those happy to pay the race card for political gain are indeed here playing the race card for political gain despite not actually giving a shit about equality or racism.
It gets better...eddie izzard takes a position on the NEC...the Labour party is eating itself 😂...it's Labours attempt at a Trump strategy!
well he is no farage or tommy robinson so its not surprising he does not float your boat
Does anyone know if Jezza has commented on Chelsea’s defensive frailties? It could all be part of a Zionist conspiracy?
I see he's taken a stance, a very strong and ethical stance, after the Cambridge Analytica story broke recently and has decided to delete his personal Facebook account.
The outraged left have spent years weaponising the same language they are now defending – they excelled in calling people racist and sexist for any incidental slip of the tongue, misguided quip or innocent comment
Yeah you really don't get it.
We have a foreign minister who actually referred to Africans as 'grinning picanninies with watermelon smiles' but apparently Labour has a problem with racism, hmmm....
If they had to give him a top job WTF made them choose diplomacy? He is so prone to racist mishaps one starts to question the actua reason for them. IMHO he is an old school colonial whose polite veneer slips into outright racism.
Does anyone know if Jezza has commented on Chelsea’s defensive frailties? It could all be part of a Zionist conspiracy?
IT has all the ingredient a russian bloke owner , so a commie probably, with a jewish sounding name so either anti semite or communist can work in the BS news spin
Thank god the Cpt is here with his one show/fox news levels of insight. What aspect of the ethical stance of the govt , to this issue, left you most tumescent with pride? The doing **** all bit ?
Its such an obvious bogus attack on corbyn that it would be funny if too many folk had not bought it. Its an absolute disgrace the way corbyn is attacked and demonised. Friend of terrorists did't stick, Marxist didn't stick so this is simply the next establishment attack on him 'cos they are terrified of him and the right wingers in the labour party follow like sheep.
One one word comment from 5 years ago - thats all they have but boy have the establishment attacks been going in overtime and his haters in the labour party follow like sheep. They would rather be in opposition than in government with Corbyn
It a "have you stopped beating your wife yet" question
Just the same concerted effort to monster Corbyn we saw before the last election.
Im sure that the rapid labour membership expansion has included some arseholes. Corbyn & labour have their work cut out rooting them out. They need to get on top of it, it's not like theyret the tories, with their racist foreign secretary & dog whistle election campaigns.
In not convinced that this latest smear will make any more difference than when the Murdoch press paid that IRA fantasist to make some stuff up last time
It'll certainly do harm. And not just to Labour. Because as well as real concerns, every dog crying wolf and every hysterical headline reduces awareness and reaction to the real thing. Just as the last decade's overt islamophobia and other minority bashing has given racists and xenophobes of all straws more confidence to stand and be seen.
Antisemitism's on the rise here as it is elsewhere, as are many other isms, and while i can see why it's tempting for people to use it as a crude weapon to attack their opponents, it's shortsighted and stupid and self-harming. If current trends continue we could be looking at real trouble- and this won't just have desensitised people to it, it'll have alienated people who would have fought it. Because who do you look to, to oppose racism and religious hatred? The right? Aye, that'll work. This is when you build alliances and understanding, not attack your neighbours.
The one thing I will never understand is why so many people who rightly oppose antisemitism are so comfortable with other forms of xenophobia and intolerance. It's all literally the same thing. People transfer their hatred so easily, it's not that important who you hate. Not allowed to hate blacks? Well islam isn't a race so I'll hate muslims. Not allowed to hate gays? Well I'll hate trans people. Or gippos, or chavs, or jews, or lefties, or fatties, or cyclists.Or the rich, or the elites, it all adds up the same, just that some people have more defences than others.
Hate is literally all one big bucket of poison, unfussed about where it leaks, and wherever it spills it makes more. If you can keep it in the tank, it goes off- but it's oh so useful to use a little poison to win an argument, or an election... Carthago delenda est! Take back control! But oh! Now there's poison flooding around something I care about, how did that happen?
If you genuinely want to counter antisemitism, counter all racism, counter every damn ism you can. Or if you can't do that, at least stop adding to the bucket. Sermon over and if you didn't know it all already you're an idiot, but it's easy to know in the head, it's not so easy to know in the heart
Just as the last decade’s overt islamophobia and other minority bashing has given racists and xenophobes of all straws more confidence to stand and be seen.
An alternative view would be to point out that it was the very suppression and deliberate use of state powers to silence anyone who said anything perceived as being nasty about Multi-culturalism that fed far-right extremism. #ee the cancellation of the “edge of the city” documentary about grooming offences in Keighley and the subsequent failed prosecution of Nick Griffin as prime examples of this type of censorship, and look how the failure to discuss these things openly played out for the hundreds of young girls who were not listened to for fear of rocking the race boat.
Blimey Northwind, that is some cracking words rights there. I thought Trump had all the good words,
So it's the left's fault for calling out racists. I see. How mean of them - spoiling a harmless "dressing up as Hitler" game. Ouch.
Well said Northwind.
Carthago delenda est
Horrid flashback to 'O' level Latin. I hate you. 🙂
Great post, Northwind.
Subscriber
It’ll certainly do harm. And not just to Labour. Because as well as real concerns, every dog crying wolf and every hysterical headline reduces awareness and reaction to the real thing. Just as the last decade’s overt islamophobia and other minority bashing has given racists and xenophobes of all straws more confidence to stand and be seen.
Antisemitism’s on the rise here as it is elsewhere, as are many other isms, and while i can see why it’s tempting for people to use it as a crude weapon to attack their opponents, it’s shortsighted and stupid and self-harming. If current trends continue we could be looking at real trouble- and this won’t just have desensitised people to it, it’ll have alienated people who would have fought it. Because who do you look to, to oppose racism and religious hatred? The right? Aye, that’ll work. This is when you build alliances and understanding, not attack your neighbours.
The one thing I will never understand is why so many people who rightly oppose antisemitism are so comfortable with other forms of xenophobia and intolerance. It’s all literally the same thing. People transfer their hatred so easily, it’s not that important who you hate. Not allowed to hate blacks? Well islam isn’t a race so I’ll hate muslims. Not allowed to hate gays? Well I’ll hate trans people. Or gippos, or chavs, or jews, or lefties, or fatties, or <span class="skimlinks-unlinked">cyclists.Or</span> the rich, or the elites, it all adds up the same, just that some people have more defences than others.
Hate is literally all one big bucket of poison, unfussed about where it leaks, and wherever it spills it makes more. If you can keep it in the tank, it goes off- but it’s oh so useful to use a little poison to win an argument, or an election… Carthago delenda est! Take back control! But oh! Now there’s poison flooding around something I care about, how did that happen?
If you genuinely want to counter antisemitism, counter all racism, counter every damn ism you can. Or if you can’t do that, at least stop adding to the bucket. Sermon over and if you didn’t know it all already you’re an idiot, but it’s easy to know in the head, it’s not so easy to know in the heart
Quoted for awesome.
It's interesting to note the silence of those complaining of antisemitism when IDF snipers kill 16 and injure 740 in the Gaza strip. The Guardian refers to 'clashes' when no-one in the IDF copped an injury and the Beeb pulled Jeremy Bowen for daring to report accurately.
Survation found that in the last election only 13 per cent of the Jewish population voted Labour and only 14 per cent did so when Miliband stood. It strikes me of Tory and ethnocentric whataboutery because elections are coming up.
How about a protest against the rabbi referring to black people as '''monkeys'? It ain't going to happen.
TLDR: If you don't agree with conservative right wing Jews then you're automatically an anti-semite.
McCarthyism is alive and well in the UK.
Jeremy attends a Jewish passover celebration in his own constituency...but apparently it's the wrong sort of passover celebration, and the Jewish people involved are the wrong type.
BURN HIM!
I suspect that's quite a sneaky and clever move from him- though I don't know if it'll work. Up til now there's been the usual weird slightly creepy possibly slightly racist thing where all jews apparently speak with one voice and a few spokesmen and groups can speak for everyone. As if we'd accept that from the British Christians Organisation, or the United Singletrack Union.
Today the attacks on Corbyn continue in much the same vein, except that all of them are admitting that not all jews agree. The reason I say it might not actually work, is that it's been tried before, and the usual suspects are very adept at marginalising The Wrong Sort Of Jews.
If you don’t agree with conservative right wing Jews then you’re automatically an anti-semite.
Especially if you suggest Israel should not shoot thousands of unarmed protesters at its birder - where its border means the place they illegally put it after stealing the land and maintaining it by force . Apparently if you hold them to the standards of all nations - they have done far worse things than Iran , expansionist land grabs and illegal nukes being the most obvious- then the only reason is because you hate Jews
Its ok to criticise china, North Korea, and Iran without being a racist but not Israel
Its also ok to do blatant dog whistle campaigns about Muslims as well - you dont even need to do it as a dog whistle campaign as no one will call you a racist if you o this and its PC gone mad if you criticise those who do.
“If you don’t agree with conservative right wing Jews then you’re automatically an anti-semite.”
+1.
Sometimes it feels like it’s impossibke to even gently chide Israel..
Sometimes it feels like it’s impossibke to even gently chide Israel..
That is the aim, to make any criticism of Israel sound like it's a criticism of Jewish people, it's been used so many times to great effect due to the standing many prominent Israeli groups have. It is something the international community and governments need to stand firm on.
It’s worth noting though that Momentum have come out & said a problem with anti-semitism does exist within Labour:
It’s interesting to note the silence of those complaining of antisemitism when IDF snipers kill 16 and injure 740 in the Gaza strip.
Not silent at all - in fact the Board of Deputies issued a tweet blaming Hamas.
"It is something the international community and governments need to stand firm on."
+1.
"Board of Deputies issued a tweet blaming Hamas"
A tweet?
Anything of substance??....
A tweet....big whoop..
I'm a little out of touch, is LBC the speaking bastard lovechild of the Metro and Mail?
Nice opinion pieces there TG though, lots of opinions in them, full of opinions 😉
I’m a little out of touch, is LBC the speaking bastard lovechild of the Metro and Mail?
They have just given Rees-Mogg a phone in show. Other presenters include Farage.
thanks for the links turner cannot wait for tomorrows propaganda which i will ignore in much the same way you ignore replies
Yep, anyone that listens to LBC is in the same camp as a Daily Mail reader.
Taking lessons from the tories over racism? Yeah right. Local elections are coming up, the tories aren't taking the high ground here, just merely taking the political opportunity.
Probably the main goal however, is to distract everyone from the cambridge analytica/ aggregate IQ story, and what is becoming clear who currently in Government were involved.
Even nincompoops favourite blogger Guido has some very questionable links to Russia via guidos own lobbying company message space.
A tweet….big whoop..
Welcome to 2018, grandad 🙂
Apparently tweets, fb postings etc are enough to convict someone of antisemitism. What's sauce for the goose ...
nincompoops favourite blogger Guido
This was the one who invented the "Corbyn Stasi file" that was all over the media before it was proved to be an invention and quietly dropped, having done its job?
Jeremy attends a Jewish passover celebration in his own constituency…but apparently it’s the wrong sort of passover celebration, and the Jewish people involved are the wrong type.
I had a thought earlier, is Jezza trolling the right-wing press now?
The outraged reaction to this latest "scandal" just looks ridiculous. "He met with a group who have threatened to satirise mainstream Jewish leaders." The monster!
Yep it's certainly as posted earlier back to the when did you stop beating your wife line of questioning. Playing the man...
As a chat with my folks on the subject revealed from what they read he will ruin the country, when pointed out the entire show was been run by the likes of JRM and BoJo with the SEL's on the right of the tory party that was fine, it's just what happens and May is doing the best she can. The mail and express have a lot to answer for.
So PR incompetence isn't part of the picture? His job's to get elected. Alienating the mainstream is a pretty odd strategy.
Survation found that in the last election only 13 per cent of the Jewish population voted Labour and only 14 per cent did so when Miliband stood. It strikes me of Tory and ethnocentric whataboutery because elections are coming up.
so
His job’s to get elected. Alienating the mainstream is a pretty odd strategy.
You accept that you won't get the other 86/87% and move on to people who might vote for you. It may be important to a couple of seats overall but it's not going to be an issue overall
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Jews
With a total of 264,000 people that is a very small number of votes to be chasing.
It’s worth noting though that Momentum have come out & said a problem with anti-semitism does exist within Labour
Splitters, why dont they just join the Tories.
Labour has about 300000 members. It'd be a miracle if they didn't have antisemites in their ranks. I mean, we also know that the Tories have antisemites (and racists, and xenophobes, and homophobes) in their ranks, it's just it doesn't seem to be front page news for some reason.
But then, it depends who you ask doesn't it, the president of the Board of Deputies says that Jewdas is "the source of violent antisemitism."
Tempting as it is to Godwin the thread right here I meant mainstream of society, also. Jewdas ffs. Corb's office say "not in his official diary" like he needs minding so to not accidentally shout "property is theft" in the Waitrose queue? I'm talking basic political competence.
So PR incompetence isn’t part of the picture? His job’s to get elected. Alienating the mainstream is a pretty odd strategy.
If you honestly think the way the press is hounding him right now is in any way reasonable, you're part of the problem of why the political discourse in this country is completely toxic.
Again, we have a foreign minister who is openly racist, a government who tried to install a vile sexist pig who attends eugenics conferences to a university regulator position, a government in partnership (through bribes) with terrorist-supporting bible-thumping nut jobs, a government who's MP ran an openly racist mayoral election campaign, but somehow Jeremy Corbyn not doing enough to tackle anti-Semitism and going to see the 'wrong jews' is the main story here. Really?
As I said before it didn't make a difference when they made up all the stuff about the IRA last time & it won't on the coming local elections.
is Jezza trolling the right-wing press now?
I have no idea but we are in some sort of alternative reality where he attends an event with some jewish people and he still gets attacked for it as they were wrong sort of Jews. This is just too stupid to warrant discussion and what Grum said.
I can't really get over the bit where British jewry's most senior spokesman accuses other jews of being violent antisemites purely because he knows it's a convenient stick to beat people with, and it goes mostly unquestioned. How does he retain credibility, or even his position? Why will his next accusation of antisemitism still be taken seriously? And how can the Board of Deputies keep claiming they represent all of british jewry while accusing parts of it they don't like of being antisemites? It's knocked my suspension of disbelief a bit.
I have no idea but we are in some sort of alternative reality where he attends an event with some jewish people and he still gets attacked for it as they were wrong sort of Jews.
When the big transgender debate was happening in the US a number of right wing politicians were on about the danger of sexual assaults from transgender people in the other changing rooms/bathrooms. Unfortunately the stats showed you were more likely to be sexually assaulted by a republican politician than a transgender person. The right when scared go into full attack mode, they are whipping up all corners to get in there and divert attention from the complete shit show that is the government.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/36793900/boris-johnsons-most-controversial-foreign-insults
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-africa-36800243/boris-johnson-on-africa-in-quotes
As I said before it didn’t make a difference when they made up all the stuff about the IRA last time & it won’t on the coming local elections.
but not all of it was made up...
Nice opinion pieces there TG though, lots of opinions in them, full of opinions 😉
unfortunately most of them are backed up by actions that Corbyn took...
The hysterical bits were, there was a great leap between some factual events and intentions and outcomes. Perhaps progress could have been made much sooner if an approach of talking had been taken.There are a lot of bodies which are a result of fixed positions and an inability to politically move away from them.
thanks for the links turner cannot wait for tomorrows propaganda which i will ignore in much the same way you ignore replies
it's not propoganda when it is just pointing out acttons Corbyn made, can't get past that.
I don't come on the forum so often now as it is so sh1t slow and the useless bunch of 9 to 5ers that are responsible clearly don't have the competance to do anything about it...