some actually want to do a good job and provide an excellent service to help others whilst making money.
They could have set up a charity, not have made any profit, given it all to charity etc as could any business owner who was in it because they care.
When they do not do this , and they end up owning billions, whilst living in a tax haven its hard to argue they were not motivated by money. Still its STW and any argument will be voiced
At least Flashy knows it unfair now we just need to get him to care
If it was just the money nobody would bother
Spectacular capitalism fail there.
now we just need to get him to care
Because obviously I dont.....
FFS.
1) Nothing to stop a charity making a profit or its directors being paid a lot of money.
2) All those SME's might have directors that are rich in terms of the national average but they are hardly tax exiles or even close to being so.
They could have set up a charity, not have made any profit, given it all to charity etc as could any business owner who was in it because they care.
half of UK start ups businesses fail within the first five years
If theres no reward, why would you risk investing your life savings, time and effort on something that stands a high chance of failure?
Imagine if George had thought "nah, its not worth putting that **** off big advert with loads of pages in the magazines, lets just stick to running our little bike shop and be happy with what we got"
EMployers make money form employees - I a not sure how you managed to be unaware of this "socialism"
Does that go for public sector employees?
Which sector pays your mortgage? Private, public, or third?
Or indeed trades union leaders on £140,000.00 pa who get £5000.00 pay rises.
well you hid in well in the reply I commented on- I have no idea why i thought you were mocking those who tired to make the world more fair and its actually something you do care about itBecause obviously I dont....
I have no idea why not ask those who are arguing they do it for something other than money?If theres no reward, why would you risk investing your life savings, time and effort on something that stands a high chance of failure?
Generally not - as you well knew you little minx youDoes that go for public sector employees?
Essentially the public sector do all the things that folk cannot make a profit from so - so they wont do it- say public libraries as an example. Could you imagine folk not having clean running water as it was not profitable to supply the pipe work for their property - no me neither hence why we needed the govt to run some businesses to achieve social goals like running water- these days we just pay the private sector to deliver say "unaffordable " broadband etc.
Obviously if what was being argued against me was true we would not have public services as folk would be doing this for something other than money - thanks for helping highlight my point.You are really rather kind.
One can mock method ideology and still give a shit, Junky. There are many ways to reduce inequality.
Or can one only care if it's the [i]right sort[/i] of caring?
Nipper99 - Member
Or indeed trades union leaders on £140,000.00 pa who get £5000.00 pay rises.
3.5% is anyone is interested.
Water companies are private in many areas. But you can get private companies to work for everyone through effective regulation. Lots of essentials are provided by private companies.
Do these companies make a profit, and made a business decision to operate in these areas, or do they do it because they "care"?
Yes we have privatised lots of things and yes we still all get water, Lots of bus routes dont exist mind as they were unprofitable.
None of this negates my point
What is controversial in saying businesses are in the business of making money rather than employing folk per se. Its just self evidently true.
Could you imagine folk not having clean running water as it was not profitable to supply the pipe work for their property - no me neither hence why we needed the govt to run some businesses to achieve social goals like running water- these days we just pay the private sector to deliver say "unaffordable " broadband etc.
Water Industry was privatised to essentially draw in third party investment ahead of the massive costs of the tightening drinking water and environmental legislation
This didn't happen in northern Ireland or Scotland and investment has lagged the rest of the UK
Essentially the public sector do all the things that folk cannot make a profit from so - so they wont do it- say public libraries as an example.
You demonstrate the issue with the old school public sector, a complete lack of entrepreneurship. Libraries can do more than the traditional functions. For example becoming a centre for local businesses to use as an shop window, education and child care, start-up business premises etc
Not all public sector activities translate in this way but the holier than thou attitude demonstrated that the private sector is all about owners exploitation of workers is as true as all public sector workers milking sick leave, pensions and working short hours
Do these companies make a profit, and made a business decision to operate in these areas, or do they do it because they "care"?
They make a profit to keep the financial markets happy, that keeps the cost of debt low which keeps your bill down.
The level of profit is regulated as they are monopolies it's a great example of regulation that in general is working well
Are you enjoying yourself Junkyard ?
Your blog Ernie?
https://croydoncommunists.wordpress.com
And are you mates with John Eden?
https://insidecroydon.com/2014/03/14/stevenson-leads-communists-three-man-revolution/
I suggest you jump on this fantastic idea forthwith- dragons den is on - go o give it a go and see what they say.You demonstrate the issue with the old school public sector, a complete lack of entrepreneurship. Libraries can do more than the traditional functions. For example becoming a centre for local businesses to use as an shop window, education and child care, start-up business premises etc
Best of luck after they have a flair for entrepreneurship so I could not possibly evaluate such a plan as this.
what moron said that ?the holier than thou attitude demonstrated that the private sector is all about owners exploitation of workers
I don't agree i said business exist to make money. I have no idea why folk have found this such a startling revelation tbh or why they have got all defensive and hyperbolic when it is pointed out. you any ideas on that one ?
Someone really ought to inform their shareholder as that is all kinds of wrongThey make a profit to keep the financial markets happy,
god bless them for doing this thank god we dont need to regulate them as they are doing it all to keep my bill low ad not make a profitthat keeps the cost of debt low which keeps your bill down.
WHAT - you mean they cannot be trusted and they would exploit a monopoly position just to maximise profit. But you just said they were doing it for me...whose lying is it you or you?The level of profit is regulated as they are monopolies
[quote=ernie_lynch ]Are you enjoying yourself Junkyard ?
Be glad when the weekend is over and I can hand the mantle back to you.
How kind of you to do a google search of me big n daft, I feel touched and flattered 8)
Yes I know John Eden very well indeed, like me he's a carpenter and we are actually both in the same local cycling club - he's a roadie who is well into his vintage bikes, which I am reliably informed are much better than modern bikes with lightweight frames and STI shifters.
Although we obviously share very similar political views he actually originally comes from a Trot background and probably sees me as a bit conservative*/right-wing. He's also a more intellectual and better informed than me - he reads a lot. He's a bit of a purist when it comes to politics (and bikes). I tend to avoid getting into deep political discussions (or ones about bikes) with him 🙂
EDIT : * That's "conservative" in the working-class marxist sense of course - not conservative in the Tory Party sense......small "c".
and I can hand the mantle back to you.
You are doing very well mate, you just carry on.
Well I assume that you are doing very well - I'm not actually following the "debate".
After all how hard can it to be to convince dyed-in-the-wool Tories ?
I'm not actually following the "debate".
Finally, Ernie shows that he does indeed have a sense of humour! Not following it?
😀 Brilliant.
"Mantle"?
CaptainFlashheart - MemberI'm not actually following the "debate".
Finally, Ernie shows that he does indeed have a sense of humour! Not following it?
Brilliant. 😀
No I'm not following the debate. I see that it's something about privatization and "fairness" but I'm not following it in any detail. In the same way that I can have the telly or the radio on and be aware of what the programme is about without paying attention.
Single sentences or short paragraphs are easy to pick up though that's why I'm replying 🙂
I'm glad the whole concept of being aware of something without paying attention amuses you greatly and that it proves I have "a sense of humour", you seemed to have got a little stressed and upset up there ^^
CaptainFlashheart - Membernow we just need to get him to care
Because obviously I dont.....
FFS.
Instructive to look at the US here - where there is no such thing as a tax exile. You could move to N Korea
@Gary AFAIK the US and Phillipines are the only countries in the world to have such tax arrangements. If you make millions in the US it's highly unlikely you'll pay more than 15-20% in tax as there are so many offsets/allowances etc.
As an aside, if this hits 10k replies, is it the longest thread on STW?
@bongo no
MrMichaelWright and his wife who I had the great pleasure of meeting on a Trail Addiction holiday is at approx 14,000 posts with this one which is far too clever for me to contribute to
[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/tune-association-threadits-friday-and-im-bored ]Friday tune association thread[/url]
They could have set up a charity, not have made any profit, given it all to charity etc as could any business owner who was in it because they care.
No profits = no money to invest in their next business idea ? No profit = no reserves to weather a downturn in business ? No profit = no business tax
I could go on.
From the Croydon Communists
The Communists fielded three candidates in the 2010 local elections, while Stevenson was the Communist candidate at the 2012 Croydon North by-election, when he polled 119 votes, nine more than the Monster Raving Loony candidate.
Here we see Labour's future, to benchmark their electoral success by the Monster Raving Looney Party
The silver lining of torrential rain - hilarious !!!!
In the Oldham West and Royton by-election Labour got 17,209 votes and the monster raving loonies 141. Tories and UKIP considerably closer to the monster raving loonies.
ctk quite correct, they aren't there yet, it's a work in progress 😉
Labour need to look very closely at Scotland, people stopped believing it was worth voting for them in a general election.
Good to see an intelligent reaction to the whole traingate saga from team Jezza
We need bigger shovels.
Keep digging comrades
Spotted the Lennon quote in the "Croydon Communist" blog there.
Nice coincidental tie in with the Fat Chinese Communist Dictator mentioned earlier.
Any "pictures of Chairman Mao" being carried around there, at all?
Maybe whoever is taking a turn at wearing the mantle has got it.
Well just reading these last couple of pages it appears our resident lefties/trots/Marxists have about as much insight into the reasons people start businesses, as they have into why the UK population will never elect a hard left government.
People start businesses for one reason only... to make a fortune by ruthlessly exploiting 'The Workers'?
Dear God! What's it like living your life imprisoned in the mindset of a 1970's Union rep?
Indeed binners chant after me, all profit bad all money to charity. Just like the marxist dogma of profit being the result of under paying the workers. This attitude is a severe problem for Labour and Corbyn is only maling these views more entrenched. Attacking these beliefs during a General Election will be meat and drink to Labour's opponents.
Well just reading these last couple of pages it appears our resident lefties/trots/Marxists have about as much insight into the reasons people start businesses, as they have into ........
I think that's you Junkyard. Ever been called a lefty marxist trot before ? Well apparently you're one of the resident ones on here.
Mind you the comment was made by our resident ranter who would do Richard Littlejohn proud, so make what you will of it.
ur resident lefties/trots/Marxists have about as much insight into the reasons people start businesses
Why has everyone got so outraged with the "trot" suggestion that business exist to make money. Its hardly a shocking revelation;its the most simplistic statement of fact imaginable
Stop making shit up like this
to make a fortune by ruthlessly exploiting 'The Workers'?
said no one on this thread 🙄
Name calling i can live with but for such a bland and obvious statement of fact its astonishing how little the resident non trorts know about the system they so adore. They have not even grasped the most basic premise of the system.Businesses exist to make money, businesses that dont make money dont exist
Its not controversial or marxists its just the truth.
Well.... there are co-ops, and I can think of other businesses that only charge enough to cover costs and labour.businesses that dont make money dont exist
Co-ops and charities can make a profit, ever seen the Co-ops shiny buildings in Manchester city center they weren't free.
Likewise companies don't have to make a profit to exist, see Tesla.
Cash flow is what it is all about, whatever legal form they take.
People start businesses for one reason only... to make a fortune by ruthlessly exploiting 'The Workers'?
Right, that's it everyone stop, everyone out!
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Junky 'twas you who said business should exist to make no money/profit and/or all profits should be donated to charity. It really is that sort of thinking which underlies your and many Corbynisats economic thinking.
As ninfan says why take all that risk to start a business when there is no reward other than wages which you could get paid if you just worked for someone else ?
Its (profit = evil) core to the lefties belief that many businesses should be state run as somehow Government ownership is like a massive non-profit utopian solution. It's patently bollix as has been shown again and again politicians are terrible at running businesses not least as so few of them have ever worked in one for any length of time or with any notable success.
Likewise companies don't have to make a profit to exist, see Tesla.
Tesla, facebook, google, Amazon etc etc its all about promising profit and lots of it in the future. The investors in such businesses are expecting huge profits eg 10 times their investments. Profit can take many forms too, it can come from technology development, patents, dominant market positions etc. Sooner or later a company has to deliver a profit / return otherwise the investors / lenders will stop paying the bills.
What happens when altruistic business plans meet reality:
Just switched on the BBC news and there's an "eye-witness" explanation of why he and his fellow Albanians living under the then Dear Leader Enver Hoxha in that particular Communust paradise, sought refugee status in Italy.
"Freedom and escape from poverty", apparently.
Shocking, eh?
But you seen ninfan they are in the wrong location Sydney is in Australia not Utopia
Yep that's right and there's no poverty anywhere other than communist countries- FACT
Thinking about it, the entire history of Communism (and "Socialism", it's allegedly slightly cuddlier little sibling) is the history of complete failure.
Except China, where the Communist government have managed to haul the country up in just a few years, to being the second largest economy on the planet, by allowing....
Capitalism.