[Closed] Is this problem insurmountable? (appologies, relationship advice content)

Kids, in my experience, is most definately a relationship breaker if you have different opinions on the matter. You must both want kids to have them, or both not want kids, not to.

What if you stay together and you still don't want kids? That'd be even harder on her. Could you do that to her and live with it later?

Sounds like a no go or she will end up as a single parent if you do get tricked then leave

The older I get, the more I think arranged marriages are a good idea 🙄

TBH I was like you and now here I am at 49 no kids of my own and with hind site, I was wrong!! Would having a family save my first marrage I do not know.

Guess I never will

Think very carefully please

You have done the right thing 100% - you have both been honest and both shouldn't compromise on what you want.

My brother was in a similar situation and kidded himself for years that his wife would change but she never did and eventually he left her to get what HE wanted (he was the one wanting kids in that relationship).

It's a tough one. Five years ago I was involved with someone I was very serious about and she was desperate for kids, to the point that every single conversation ended up being "Baby, baby, baby..." all the time.

If you feel under pressure, you're never going to want to have kids. I discovered that she was trying to take the choice away from me by not taking her pill (and not telling me), so I quit the relationship and moved on.

Yes, it was hard but I couldn't see it going any other way. As it happens my partner now has two sons which I'm absolutely fine with.

When I was thirty I had the same opinion. I never wanted kids. Then unfortunately one turned up *ahem* unexpectedly. Since then I have found that actually I love having kids. In fact so much so we now have four of them. What is exactly the reason you don't want children? At the end of the day it is the only reason you are here!

Good friends of mine found themselves in exactly the situation as you. Sorry to say that they did split up they both met and stayed with other people that shared their family plans. I think it is one of the few differences that is a insurmountable.

Probably not what you wanted to hear, sorry.

[edit]
Despite what a lot of people will tell you it is perfectly possible to have a long term loving relationship without having children. We have never wanted children and have been together for 26 very fulfilling years.

I guess my advice would be more for her than you and that is: if she's late 20s and doesn't believe her partner wants kids and she does, then go, go now and find someone who does. Because that is one life decision you can't postpone for too long.
I have female friends who are mid-30s and bitterly regret not moving on in their 20s when they had an inkling their fiancee / partner wasn't up for kids. By their mid-30s it had become far, far harder to either find the right person or conceive. What if you give it a few more ambivalent years and then call it quits; she's the one who loses out.
That said, how sure are you that don't want kids? I didn't in my late 20s, by my early 30s I thought they were the best thing ever.

Why don't you want kids?

An answer to that might help those of us who want kids be able to help.

Initially I wasn't keen on the idea. Now my children are my everything. There is no feeling like a new born opening it's eyes for the first time and fixing on you.

If you are *sure* you don't want children and she does, then walk away. Best for both. However, are you actually *sure*?

What if you stay together and you still don't want kids? That'd be even harder on her

TBH I was like you and now here I am at 49 no kids of my own and with hind site, I was wrong

I discovered that she was trying to take the choice away from me by not taking her pill (and not telling me)

If you are *sure* you don't want children and she does, then walk away. Best for both. However, are you actually *sure*?

guess my advice would be more for her than you and that is: if she's late 20s and doesn't believe her partner wants kids and she does, then go, go now and find someone who does. Because that is one life decision you can't postpone for too long.

Guess I'm still feeling $hit at present and looking for the ray of hope. If there is one it's that we are still best friends and still talking. The last thing we said to each other when I left was "I love you."

She won't change her mind. So you need to decide if you will.

Otherwise, let her get on with her life.

Of course, you could get her up the duff, and then if you do find you don't like having the noisy little brats around, just do a runner.

I think a lot depends on how deep your not wanting kids runs. There's many, many men out there (me included) who were pretty agnostic / erring on the negative side about kids, but have found it to be an overwhelmingly positive experience.
So I'd say closely examine your motivation for nae kids (one last time, I'm sure you've done this loads) - is it no **** way, or is it more of a cumulative I can't really be arsed with them sort of feeling. If it is a clear no then you're best calling it a day.

If that is the only thing that you disagree on then it may be worth trying to work it out between you. It really isn't that easy to find someone you want to spend the rest of your life with so some compromise is needed. As with other posters, I and my wife started as people who really never ever wanted kids but when they arrive it all changes and the relationship just widens to include them - it's great. It may be worth exploring why you don't want them (time, cost, freedom etc) and working out how you could deal with it?

maybe you dont love her as much as you think you do?
i didnt want kids at all but then the right woman for the job came along and it all seemed like a fairly nice plan.

If you think you will [i]never[/i] want kids - then you have done the right thing

If you think you will do one day - compromise now.

If you are unsure what you will want in the future - how do you think you can make your mind up?

The vast majority of 22-27yo women want kids, the vast majority of 25-30yo blokes don't the only reason reproduction works in our society is a combination of accidents and blokes being persuaded it's not such a bad idea. Are you [b]really, really[/b] against having kids, or just not too keen on the idea because it will cramp your lifestyle?

At 30 I really didn't want kids. Still find it frustrating how my life has changed, but I love the ones I have. I'd suggest the chances are you will come round to the idea - if she's only 27 she has a lot of time left on her biological clock, and in 5 years time you might start thinking about the meaning of life and realise kids aren't such a bad idea.

oh no - it's an STW general consensus.

Checks for signs of the end of the world....

[i]then the right woman for the job came along and it all seemed like a fairly nice plan. [/i]

Grade A, bloke statement. 😉

ta. 😆

leffeboy I'll try and rescue this one...

I'm not in the market for a baby maker at the moment, but post up a pic and I might be able to trade you a much younger model who's not interested in kids for at least 8 years.

it's an STW general consensus.

No it's not.

i was firmly in the no never not on my agenda until the 'i ve got to tell you something speech' i took a deep breath and said with you 100% bring it on. life changing best thing that could have happened in my life. i had been there done that though and was a week off 40 when the first was born.
if 'she' is the woman you love and she aint wanting one tomorrow go with the flow its the ride of your life.

'general' is the key word here, so I think it is (but I agree with your edit - children aren't an essential part of a relationship and can actually add a fair amount of strain)

Thanks for that TSY, I kind of realised that we were missing 'This thread is useless without pics'. Can't believe we got so far down the page without it

go with the flow its the ride of your life

...and there is no getting off

children aren't an essential part of a relationship and can actually add a fair amount of strain

The thing is, eventually the lifstyle you have in your 20s and 30s starts feeling a bit more pointless.

'general' is the key word here

Fair enough, I only posted the response because as one of the few people offering an alternative opinion to what is a very difficult decision I didn't want my voice to be lost in the crowd.

[edit]

The thing is, eventually the lifstyle you have in your 20s and 30s starts feeling a bit more pointless.

mid 40's here and I can assure you that life doesn't feel remotely pointless to me. Actually it's filled with good stuff. No doubt it's different good stuff to those folk that have a happy family life but that doesn't make it any less good, just different.

If you dont want kids split now or you wont get the choice. There are loads of women who dont wish to have kids in my experience, Ive been with one for 26 odd years.
I think, for me, loving kids is something you do cos you [i]have [/i]to once you've got them, but not something id ever want to do.

Insurmountable - if you don't want kids and she does there is no compromise available

Me and my wife decided recently we didn't want to have children....

We've an 18 month old in the Worthing area, free to collector, if anyone wants to pick up, or can meet halfway....

DrP

Boom tish!

Imo, you shouldn't make a decision on what might be in the future.

If you realy love her, you wouldn't even consider denying her the gift of motherhood.

You should really make a decision on where you are today.

Right now you are utterly convinced you do not want children and think yourself unlikely to change your mind.

So, its an easy one.

You both go your seperate ways and get to where you both think you want to be.

I didn't want kids when i was in my 20's, in my middle 30's i wished i had had them, now at middle 40's I'm glad i didn't

HTH

If she loved you she'd back down. Tell her "I want never gets."

Just have a baby, how much harm can one teeny weeny little baby do after all!?

My OH never wanted children but I have always wanted two. We've held off and agreed that we would try for one soon which is what sparked this wedding malarky. Anyway, since resigning himself to the fact we will have a baby, sooner rather than later, he is now looking forward to it and chatting names/nurserys and whatever else (he's 31). Literally up until 30 he wasn't really interested.

All i think I'm trying to say is that you have to be sure you don't want kids as you might change your mind,by which time it will be to late for her, and if you definitely don't you have to call it a day.

maybe you dont love her as much as you think you do?

If you realy love her, you wouldn't even consider denying her the gift of motherhood

Controversial viewpoint, but in hindsight, quite true...

Perhaps you "love her" for what you get from the relationship? (as you certainly don't appear to want the same in the long run)

FWIW I found infants to be really, really objectionable - noisy, pukey little snot monsters who turn your partner and best friend into someone quite different. In my 20s / early 30s I definitely DID NOT WANT. When we did decide to have kids it felt like a compromise to me. I would quite happily have waited until 40!

However, had our first at 33. Seemed like an awful time to give up on a leisure lifestyle - starting to make good career progress, first house, wages picking up etc. But it was a good time to start. Friends who left it later struggled - both in terms of conception and in terms of keeping everything else together.

For me it was a question of "when" rather than not ever wanting, so different from your views expressed here. If it really is NEVER then let her go. If it could be "when" then talk it through some more....

I've heard that a few times. Can't see me changing my mind but you never know. This is what I'm scared of.

Try being a woman who doesn't want kids! I'm 31 and people (including my boss, which is slightly disconcerting) keep telling me that I'll want to have kids, it's only a matter of time before I decide to pop one out, and if I don't I'll regret it. But I'd rather regret not having kids than regretting having one, looking at it every day and thinking, "Nope, I'm stuck with you but I massively resent the havoc you're creating in my life".

Fortunately I'm with Mr Toast, who doesn't want kids either, certainly not any time soon. As far as I'm concerned there's no rush - if we do suddenly start feeling parental but I can no longer have kids, there's always adoption. If one partner desperately wants to have biological children and the other doesn't though, I'd say that's a fairly massive problem.

I know plenty of happy couples in their late 30's and early 40's who are doing perfectly fine without kids. More than fine infact - having the time of their lives, with all the flexibility that not having kids brings.

Most of the couples I know with kids seem in a constant state of chaos, stress, lack of time, financial strain, difficult choices, worry etc, etc. But they do all say that having kids is very rewarding though.

Seems that the most successful couples make sure that having kids does not change their lifestyle to much. The kids are are part of their life but it's not 'All about the Kids'. They still see their friends and still do the things they enjoy but also take the kids with them.

Some rock climbers on a route next to us last week had their kids with them on the route, both kids tied into the same rope. Kids seemed to be loving it and it didn't prevent the parents from having a weekend doing what they always have done. Brilliant!

Kids are like farts - you love your own.

I didnt want kids at all when I was in my 20's (well ok I did at some point but not for a long time!)

It probably took me until I was 34ish before I thought I wanted to. Beleive me you have got to want to have kids to have them, they are very hard work, but worth it.

Its not fair on either of you to stay together, just in case you change your mind in 5 or 10 years time. As above if you decide to stick with it and have a child, because she wants one, I would very much doubt that you would be together when its 5 years old.

If you're as anti as you read then the split was only solution. She's free to find the man she needs.

As an amusing aside, something like 8% (IIRC) of French kids are fathered by men other than their mother's husband. An article explained this in terms of women marrying a man for his postion and status then shagging another man for his genes; choosing a man to produce healthy, good-looking offspring.

I can see an element of this in my own choices. Of my girlfriends there were only two women I could ever picture pregnant without alarm bells ringing in my head and one of those is now my wife and a mother.

"As an amusing aside, something like 8% (IIRC) of French kids are fathered by men other than their mother's husband"

Apparently the UK statistic is 1-10 !

I didn't want children till yesterday, when I held my cousins 2 day old baby. I felt broody for the first time. Until then I didn't want children at all, now I can see why people do. All the crying, vomit, attention, sleepless nights is actually worth it 🙂

I split up with someone a few years ago as she wanted children and I didn't, we too had been an item for 4-5 years. My parents didn't have children till they were in their mid 30s, I will be the same. You did the right thing, who knows how you will feel in a few years. Maybe something will change your mind too, Hope your keeping well.

I know a couple who're in their early 40's and have been together through mostly happy times for the past 20 years. He would love kids, but she doesn't want any. Relationships are about compromise, finding the middle ground. In this couples case, although the guy would give his right arm to be a dad, he wouldn't give up the woman he loves.

B.

OP: stop being all lovey-dovey with your ex. If you're as determined as you sound about this, leave the poor girl alone and let her find someone who'll gave her what she needs. You're just messing with her head at the moment.

do you like having sex ?

if the answer is yes, then subconsciously you want kids.

Also surely better you get her up duff than you end up bring up someone else's kids.

Also what is the reason you dont want kids do you not think your genetic material should be passed on ?

I guess the problem you are finding is that you are both quite selfish where your own preferences determines the direction of the relationship. Given such polar views on children I'm wondering why you stayed in the relationship for so long. Unless there was something genuinely great about it. What I'm reading in your post is that you are worried she may have turned out to be your ideal / perfect partner and that by splitting up you are going to have to settle for second best. I was never that drawn to having kids but knew that it was inevitable that I would have them one day and was prepared for that. Our first arrived a little unexpectedly and a little earlier than "planned". At the time it felt a bit early in life (I was 28) but looking on it now I am so glad we had them then. I feel for couples in their late 30s and early 40s who are now only just having kids as the physical demands look many times worse than they are when you are in your late 20s. Sure, we have struggled at times but having kids has been a truly life enriching experience and I wouldn't change them for anything.

If you are convinced that you will never want kids then you need to man up and accept that the girl you have just split with deserves a partner who shares her desire and leave her alone. Let her move on and stop complicating her head and heart.

Insurmountable - if you don't want kids and she does there is no compromise available

Spaniel?

do you like having sex ? if the answer is yes, then subconsciously you want kids.

Preposterous!

I'm never going to have kids as my brain stops me from fancying women (it's a condition 🙂 ) but for what it's worth, I would take the opportunity if you can. Almost unanimously, friends tell me that having children is the most rewarding experience they can imagine. Also, what could be better than a mini-you? It's your shot at immortality!

I wasn't particularly interested in having kids. Met my OH (she was 39) when I was 29, and we talked about it, eventually decided that we would try. Took a while, she was 44 when she got pregnant and had our son.
The older he gets, the more I enjoy him. You feel a bit of a passenger during the pregnancy and the first year or so. Once they start developing and interacting its just fantastic!
To the OP, ignore those who are saying you're messing her about and questioning your reasons for not wanting kids. Its not for everyone, but its better to be sure than have an unloved / unwanted child in the world, there's enough out there already whose parents have had them just for benefits / housing.

"saladdodger - Member
TBH I was like you and now here I am at 49 no kids of my own and with hind site, I was wrong!! Would having a family save my first marrage I do not know.

Guess I never will

Think very carefully please"

This is extreemly good advice!

To the OP - if you do finish it for good, move very far away because otherwise in 5 years you'll bump into her with her new baby, that she had with someone else and you know now how you'll feel about that.

iDave - that was very cruel but almost certainly going to be true.

Sorry for the break-up, OP. It can't be easy.

I don't want kids, and I can't see that changing. It was a deal-breaker in one relationship, and in hindsight splitting up was absolutely the right thing to do, for both of us. My ex wanted kids so much that it was a subject that could never be discussed rationally, so we did the sensible, mature thing of avoiding ever mentioning the elephant in the room (except to throw at me in unrelated arguments).

To all the people trotting out the usual clichés, "ooh, it's different when it's your own / you will later in life / if you loved her, you would" etc, wind your necks in. This might come as a shock, but different people want different things out of life, and you've absolutely no right to pressurise someone into doing something so life-changing that they don't want to do.

To the OP, if you're going to split up, you need to actually split up. It's difficult, but the only way you'll ever be 'good friends' long term is to drop contact in the short term (and by that I mean months rather than days). You've done the mature thing, now you need to stop hanging round like a bad smell so you can both move on.

One other thing. I remember being 27. I felt ancient. I wasn't, and neither are you.

Higgo... Got two spaniels, but my wife and I are still desperately trying for a kid. At 37 and 33 we have left it a little late and after four years of trying have nothing to show for it but one miscarriage

I love my life now (good career both in work and in the TA), and I know how much things would have to change if we got a sprog now, but I am willing to do that. It's even worse when everyone around you seems to be getting pregnant...

OP,

If you are really really dead set on never having kids, then I thin you made the right choice. Loving someone that much and seeing it all go wrong is very tough, but if changing is not an option, then it's about the only thing you can do to let her have her dream.

Kids - Meh.

I've got two and frankly it's a lot of effort for the reward. Yeah they have their moments but if you're not up for kids I'd say give em a miss as it's certainly not all that. If your partner is broody then it was probably best calling it a day and letting her get on with it.

[i]Anyone here had totally differnet opions about children from their other half? Did you overcome this? How? Or is this really the relationship breaker I hope it isn't?[/i]

Went through almost exactly the same thing around 10-12 years ago.
We actually split for a while, as MrsDezB had reached 30 and thought if I didn't want kids, she would have to find her future elsewhere.
Originally neither of us wanted them, but she changed and I didn't.
So... we got back together, had a son and he's the best thing that's ever happened to me.
A real shame that we split over it because things happened while we were separated that are still difficult to repair.
I don't believe in giving other people relationship advice, but if I had my time again, there's just one thing I'd change: I'd have kept the relationship with the love of my life together. It's a massive thing to compromise over, I know, but I've discovered it is worth it and not really a compromise at all.

To all the people trotting out the usual clichés, "ooh, it's different when it's your own / you will later in life / if you loved her, you would" etc, wind your necks in.

That's a bit harsh. I think people are mostly describing their own life experiences. There are plenty of men who are absolutely dead against children in their 20s who change their minds. I think it's fair that those people comment, I was merely ambivalent before my daughter arrived, but I wouldn't go back. I'd agree that it's probably the most significant change to your lifestyle you can have, so consider it well!

I have three children and gave up a decent career to be a stay at home dad. Really can't imagine going through some of the hard times with just normal kid stuff like teething, feeding, falls, entertaining them when bored, trying to get them to eat well, education decisions etc if I wasn't 100% for the idea. Biking opportunities aren't the only things that disappear. Money is usually a biggie, as is much of your social life. Holidays now completely different too. All this changes to more or lesser extent as they grow, and possibilities change. Our eldest is 14 now and youngest 9, so they are much less restrictive on the rest of our lives than before, but of course they have their lives too and lots of our time is spent facilitating(taxiing and paying for)this. All this is what I've always wanted and envisioned for us, perhaps more since I'm from a large Irish catholic family and just seems the norm to me. If I hadn't been up for it I can't see how anyone would stick around.

Oh, and when you're sure, get the snip. No hassle and only one weekend without riding.

That's a bit harsh. I think people are mostly describing their own life experiences.

Some are. But there's a good few, on the first page especially, with gems like this:

If you realy love her, you wouldn't even consider denying her the gift of motherhood.

Ie, you're a bloke, so put up and shut up, your opinion counts for nowt. On a point of note, the OP isn't denying her the gift of motherhood, he's walking away for exactly that reason.

I don't disagree that it's good to hear all sides, but I reject the idea that everyone wants kids and if you don't you're just in denial.

She wants kids you dont it was not meant to be now move on and get over it for both of you.

This quote..

To all the people trotting out the usual clichés, "ooh, it's different when it's your own / you will later in life / if you loved her, you would" etc, wind your necks in.

Selectively misses the following sentence...

This might come as a shock, but [b]different people want different things out of life[/b], and you've absolutely no right to pressurise someone into doing something so life-changing that they don't want to do

and Cougar is correct that others (STW/ ex?) have "absolutely no right to pressurise someone into doing something ", but misses the point - that the OP and his ex "want different things out of life".

I think you're trying to make the same point I was. Perhaps I could've worded that better.

[i]She wants kids you dont it was not meant to be now move on and get over it for both of you[/i]

Exactly the sort of advice I don't believe in giving other people 😉

Here are some of the options:
Stay together, try for a kid. Hate the kid, regret life.
Split up, move on. Never find a love like the one you had, regret life.
Stay together, try for a kid, love the kid like nothing else ever, love life.
Split up, find someone better, love life child free. Love life. Get old, regret not having any children.
Split up, find someone else, have a kid with them, love it, fall out with the wife, get divorced...

The possibilities are endless. Only you know which one to take.

The OP should also have the snip as he's so sure about how he feels.

As I'm 30 and my GF is 23 I guess I can dodge this bullet for a few more years, but for now I'm happy being the only child in out household.

Dez B, the only option you give with a positive outcome is have the kid and love it. How about
Split up, find someone better, love life child free. Love life. Get old, [s]regret[/s] feel great about not having any children.

do you like having sex ?

if the answer is yes, then subconsciously you want kids.

???? 🙁

do you like having sex ?

if the answer is yes, then subconsciously you want kids.

Do you like masturbating? If the answer is yes, then subconsciously you don't want kids.

As a father of two wonderful girls, who I've just had out pony trekking, I reckon I'm thoroughly biased 😀

Despite all the pain, worry and heartbreak, they're the best thing thats ever happened in my life - and I reckon that the OP has just committed the the crime of cutting his nose off to spite his face 😕

OP - You can borrow some of mine just to see what it's like for a while...

Seriously, though, as someone said above, let her go and stop playing romantic; it might be hard to do, but as it stands, you are only prolonging the necessary split that will allow her the children she wants.

What about Gay people that want kids? How does that work?

Yours confused,

😕

Tsk. Well obviously, that's just wrong!

What about Gay people that want kids? How does that work?

Turkey baster for the ladies. Abduction for the gentlemen.

I only know two gay couples and neither of them have bothered with children.

I was more meaning about the enjoying sex bit.

Going back on topic, the original poster shouldn't be bludgeoned with advice like "Go on, have kids. I love mine". Having been there, it doesn't help.

FWIW...

do you like having sex ?

if the answer is yes, then subconsciously you want kids.

Do you like masturbating? If the answer is yes, then subconsciously you don't want kids.

my thoughts exactly. i must really not want kids. 🙂

Just to add a different angle here. Just because one or the other person [i]wants[/i] kids doesn't necessarily mean they will be able to have them.

EDIT - what i'm saying is its a dodgy premise to bin a relationship (or indeed proceed with one) on the basis that you will definitely be able to give her a child and vice versa.

Tough call OP but I think you've already made your mind up mate.

Turkey Baster yeti. Take a look at mumsnet - theres whole threads worth of women using them and not just those in same sex relationships.... 🙄

i've read through this thread with some interest.

it's a tough one, isn't it.

i think it might be the only thing (that i can see on the horizon) that could come between the GF and myself.

i'm 28, she's 29. right now is a bad time for her anyway as she has more-or-less finished her degree and is now heading off into the big wide world of work and careers...

her sister popped one out the other month and her best friend did so last week.

i'm sort of hoping that the stress, inconvenience and pile of shitty nappies that a new-born brings will convince her that she is better off without one.

and why do people get caught up on this new-born baby smell? the only smell that i got caught up on last week made me want to vomit and open the windows....

there was a time - before anyone i knew had one - that i though it'd be great having kids; a mini-me, a chance to improve the [s]gene pool[/s] world, frisbee in the park, stay at home dad, etc., but all that was before i saw first hand the reality of kidizenship.

my best mate accidentally employed his GF as an embryo nursery. now the lad is three years old and he is great. it's fun taking him to the park (girls love men with babies), throwing him in the pool, strapping him onto the BOB trailer and tanking him up on coke and haribos before giving him back to his parents. but he's not mine. i'm only babysitting him (i know, i guess his folks are desperate and can't afford someone responsible). part-time dad works fine. (actually i remember the time i was carrying him on my shoulders through town and he began pissing himself. not fun, but it was surpassed by the time he shat runny brown liquid all over his dad).

it was seeing my mate go from a selfish individual who's decision making process was along the lines of "me, me, me, me, GF" to "baby, baby, GF, baby, baby, GF, GF, me".

he no longer had time to do the things he enjoyed. biking went from 2-3 times a week to once every 2-3 weeks. frivolous spending went out the door at about the time the baby bed came in.

they are now financially much poorer (literally bread line) and have hardly any time for friends and family.

and this is my problem. i enjoy being me. deep down i'm a selfish git (the GF would agree with this, although i doubt she's looking as deep as i am) and base my 90% of my decisions on what i want to do. i like being able to go ride when i want, stay in bed when i want/can and spend my money on what i want.

and it isn't just the first few years of crap filled nappies, piss stained sheets, whining and restless nights. i'm more concerned by the next 18 years after that; finding a nursery, finding a good school, homework, holidays, evening spent running to sports clubs, finding another good school (secondary school, not because they got expelled though that, too, is an option), jobs/career, etc... my parents haven't stopped worrying about me (perhaps with good reason) for all my years.

but then again, if it did happen then i'm sure i wouldn't despise the child and that i would love them. i may even end up saying that it was the best thing that ever happened to me... i know my mum and dad say so, but it sure is a lot of effort for what (from my perspective) they get out.

and, an odd one this, but i'm not sure i want to put that much pressure onto someone. i didn't ever want to be born. not something that i had much of a choice in, but now i'm here i'm having to deal with all of life's pressures.
isn't having kids partly a selfish act in itself? you bring someone into this world, lump all these pressures on their shoulders completely without their asking....

At the end of the day it is the only reason you are here!

no it isn't... well, from a biological point maybe, but we're beyond that now. i'd say the no. 1 reason you are here is to have fun.

and...

do you like having sex ?

if the answer is yes, then subconsciously you want kids.

says who? freud? what if you like having sex with animals? or men? or with your woman but like you would with a man?