[Closed] Is May about to call an election?

It really is a shrewd move though. These folks are so far under Dacre's thumb that there really is no alternative vote for Labour or even Liberal, and they are normally in safe Tory seats.

It really isn't, when you take your core support for granted and then abuse them, it never ends well. Just look at Labour in Scotland.

retiring before you are 85 or whatever Ive got to look forward to

Also the selling off of allajor government assets and the share bonus that followed. Heady times, here is the hangover don't worry every time they wipe your arse it's 50 quid off your house.

You think you're going to be retiring at 85? Or ever? I admire your optimism, my friend 😉

Have your read Catch 22? Where, as Yossarian is flying his 25th mission, it gets raised to 30, then as he's flying his 30th mission, it gets raised to 35......?

It really isn't, when you take your core support for granted and then abuse them, it never ends well. Just look at Labour in Scotland.

Labour took a deliberate decision to move right in the 1990s and won a lot of national elections on the back of it. Then they had to pick a side in the most contentious and bitterly fought referendum in Scots history, with a sort-of centrist party ready to pull away indy-supporting voters.

The big difference is that if you're a Tory-voting, Brexit-supporting, Mail-reading old biddy sitting on property in the south of England, there is no alternative party ready to grab your support. There is simply no way you are voting Labour, and equally unlikely you'd move to the LibDems given their stance on Brexit.

"I haven't worked my entire life and paid taxes only for the government to take my kid's inheritance away from them".

someone else who can't read or understand what they read 🙄
At least his kids will have £100,000. Here in Wales it's £24,000 and not likely to change. Only real difference in Wales the value of your home isn't taken into account when calculating home care. Thats capped at a reasonable £60pw even if your a millionaire.

It says a lot about the ingrained sense of entitlement in certain sections of the population, that not only do they think they should be able to receive unlimited expensive care, stretching over decades, but also be able to do so while retaining all their (still rapidly appreciating) assets, which they can then hand over to their children without paying any tax.

When you think about it, this is actually Mays clause 4 moment with her core support.

The big difference is that if you're a Tory-voting, Brexit-supporting, Mail-reading old biddy sitting on property in the south of England, there is no alternative party ready to grab your support.

They'll vote with their pockets. I'd agree if we were talking a marginal increase in taxes that will cost a small amount more each year, but as I'm sure many ageing middle class people sitting on >500k properties will realise, this could cost them and their kids hundreds of thousands.

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May should go full nasty party now and change the suicide laws - so that if you want to pass on you inheritance you can have the option of walking into a suicide booth.

I've had enough of all these scrounging pensioners taking advantage of the gravy train.

It says a lot about the ingrained sense of entitlement in certain sections of the population

I'm sure there are many of those, but there are also many who would accept paying if they thought they were getting value for money. As I said above, in her work my Mrs comes back from some care homes pretty angry at how people are being ripped off and they don't even know it. Just as with the rental industry, this is going to create inflation of care costs and we all know who will benefit. The other thing that will happen is that families will resist getting the help they need to the massive detriment of those who need care, and the families who have to shoulder the burden instead. As far as I can see the only people who will gain from this policy care home owners and shareholders of the big care providers. In that respect it's a classic tory policy I guess.

[quote=martinhutch ]It really is a shrewd move though. These folks are so far under Dacre's thumb that there really is no alternative vote for Labour or even Liberal, and they are normally in safe Tory seats.

Notwithstanding the safe seats bit, the crucial thing this election is turnout (that's also something which screws with opinion polls). If this truly is something such voters don't like and can't be successfully spun (and I suspect it might be) then it could result in those voters deciding not to vote. Given we're talking about the section of the population currently most likely to vote that could have a significant impact.

Meanwhile it's just possible that social media campaigns to encourage under 25s to vote could also have an effect.

I'm sure many ageing middle class people sitting on >500k properties will realise, this could cost them and their kids hundreds of thousands.

Maybe I've not understood the proposal. How would people loose £100,000's ? Isn't it just that the value of your assets plus your home up to £100,000 will be taken into consideration when you "home care" needs are calculated, i.e care you receive when you are still in your own home. When you move into a care/ nursing home your family will be better of because they can keep £100,000. Here in Wales that'll be £ 24,000.

Maybe I've not understood the proposal. How would people loose £100,000's ? Isn't it just that the value of your assets plus your home up to £100,000 will be taken into consideration when you "home care" needs are calculated, i.e care you receive when you are still in your own home. When you move into a care/ nursing home your family will be better of because they can keep £100,000.

Yes, that's correct, but whereas previously you could have free care from the comfort of your country manor house, now you will be slowly devaluing your manor house to a similar level to a garage.
And surely you aren't suggesting mixing with the commoners in a nursing home? You'd die of shame before then surely? 🙄

Good time to buy shares in care home providers innit

It'll solve the housing crisis, this surfeit of mansion houses that will have to be sold on the death of the owners.

Presumably though they'll get bought up by Care Home providers

Genius.

Is this a time to call her a vile ****?
I hate her more than Blair. There, I've said it.

The thing about paying for care from your assets is a difficult and thorny issue and looks unfair whatever way you look at it.

Why should the general taxpayer pay for someones care when they have the money to pay for it themselves? Not using the assets to pay for care only does one thing - allows the general taxpayer to subsidise middle class childrens inheritance.

On the other hand why should someone who has built up assets not get subsidised care when their ****less neighbour does?

Good time to buy shares in care home providers innit

or pillow manufacturers 😉

Yes, that's correct, but whereas previously you could have free care from the comfort of your country manor house, now you will be slowly devaluing your manor house to a similar level to a garage.

Why should the general taxpayer pay for someones [s]care [/s] [b]cancer treatment[/b] when they have the money to pay for it themselves?

How does that sound to you?

Is old age / dementia not a condition worth treatment?

In, fact if you've lived a long and healthy life, paid taxes and NI right through, and who knows, saved a bit up along the way.... isn't being old an indicative factor in having a higher chance of suffering from old age diseases like infirmness, dementia, etc.

No - better to piss it away, and get some sort of fundable disease instead.

Even then some might come back if they go into a care home and they get to keep £100,000.

You think that will happen? There's massive pressure on care home places (hence why they're so bloody expensive) and in-home care is now the preferred option. There are going to be legions of people out there who are cash poor and property rich who are going to lose out big time. The other element is that the rich will no doubt find way to avoid it where your average middle class property owner doesn't have the means.

I thought the present system allowed local authorities to include your house value in a means test for social care? I don't want to admit reading the Tory manifesto, so what exactly is different about their proposals?

[quote=tjagain ]The thing about paying for care from your assets is a difficult and thorny issue and looks unfair whatever way you look at it.

Why should the general taxpayer pay for someones care when they have the money to pay for it themselves? Not using the assets to pay for care only does one thing - allows the general taxpayer to subsidise middle class childrens inheritance.
On the other hand why should someone who has built up assets not get subsidised care when their ****less neighbour does?

Regardless of the assets built up, why should someone who's contributed their entire adult life via tax and NI, get shafted in their later years?

It'll solve the housing crisis, this surfeit of mansion houses that will have to be sold on the death of the owners.

No. If a family can afford the fee's any home can be kept. It only has to be sold if payments have been deffered and payment is due. Many families might choose to sell a property to make real time payments. But that their choice, thats how it's now and will be in the future.
My mother will be going into a home shortly. If my siblings and myself think keeping mums home makes financial sense we'll do that and pay her fee's ourselves. As long as they get a cheque every month that's all the care home cares about.

The massive pressure on care home places is due tho the fact there is no profit in it so no one is opening more homes. Its bloody expensive because it is.

I did all the sums for this ten years ago. cost per nursing home bed per week is around £600 for the legal minimum standards . State pays £500. add in a few extras and costs will be £800+ per week. Yes you can still make a profit if all you take is private payers and charge £1000+ a week but even then returns are poor. 3-5% profit is what most care homes run at.

The other element is that the rich will no doubt find way to avoid it where your average middle class property owner doesn't have the means.

Of course they have the means - its not overly difficult to liquidate some assets and pass them to kids/grandkids before they are needed.

Boardingbob - as I said it looks unfair no matter which way you look at it. If the state pays for care for everyone then all that happens is the middle class children get a greater inheritance. No differnce to the person in care. Why should the general taxpayer subsidise middle class childrens inheritence?

allows the general taxpayer to subsidise middle class childrens inheritance.

So if you own a £150,000 house you're middle class?

So if you own a £150,000 house you're middle class?

If the mortgage is paid off, yes. I've always defined middle class as having a means of income from your assets, and not just your labour. Obviously that doesn't make you rich, but's that's another argument.

Will be interesting to see the impact of this Tory manifesto in the various election polls in the run up to the general election.

Can only be good for Labour really, looks like Labour will close on the Tories , a lot of marginal older voters will not vote Tory on the strength of this death tax.
As stated earlier, it's the very properties in the South of England that have the highest market value. Can't see that many would be Tories voting their inheritance to their children away.

How does that sound to you?

Is old age / dementia not a condition worth treatment?

Depends. Cancer care can be covered for a lot of people by insurance, as lots of people get it way before the retirement age.

Where as you can't really insure against the symptoms of old age - because on a long enough time line the probability of you developing of them is 1.

This is why society needs a sensible discussion about just how socially healthy it is to be extending our lives by so much, when technology hasn't advanced enough to extend our working and healthy lives by the same amount.

Of course they have the means

Ok, it may not be the means they're missing, just the shear grasping immorality of it. My very middle class and fairly well-off father-in-law informed his kids years ago that before they go making plans about how to spend their inheritances, they should consider that his and their mum's care might wipe out much of it as he thought it was only proper that he should pay his own way*.

*And obviously live in a nice care home as opposed to some local authority hell-hole.

You think that will happen? There's massive pressure on care home places (hence why they're so bloody expensive) and in-home care is now the preferred option. There are going to be legions of people out there who are cash poor and property rich who are going to lose out big time.

In a few cases perhaps, but the care local authorities can offer you in your own home is pretty limited. Certainty not 24hr attendance or the means to deal with more advanced dementia. I like millions of other families realise that unless we can become full time carer's our parents have to go into homes, whatever the cost. I know your only banging on about this because it's a Tory proposal so fair enough. In the mean time I've got to go and look at a nursing home later this evening 🙁

I know your only banging on about this because it's a Tory proposal so fair enough.

Well not quite, the aforementioned father-in-law has dementia so we'll be in a similar positions sooner rather than later. Also I completely agree with the principal that people should not expect indefinite care for free when they have money to pay for it, but I think in the long run it would be better implemented by an increase in general taxation or national insurance to properly fund a state-run care system.

BruceWee - Member
Do you need reminding what we baby boomers went through for the likes of you?
You mean like a fully funded NHS, free university education, the prospect of actually getting on the property ladder, stable employment...

Life must have been hell.

We had ration books until we were 8 and rickets, polio, TB and all manner of bullets to dodge, our mums and dads had just fought and lots had died in a war. There were no credit cards, we had to save every penny for the 10% deposit we had to have for a house it took five years to save for. Then we had no colour tellys until we were twenty and no stereo, no phones, no sky, no plasma telly none of the other must have shit you all seem to think you're entitled to AND a new gaff.

And our footballers had to have proper jobs to have to work in even after they won the world cup.

You lot have no idea and yes sign me up for that suicide booth, not for one moment would I want to ask anything off you and your state.

My parents probably have assets of around £750 000 - a nice house in a nice suburb and a few bits and piece they have not spent. If they require care then I will use this money to ensure they have the care they need even if it means no inheritance for me.

1) it allows a bit more flexibility in that I can use that money to purchase home care for them and 2) I believe it to be right

However my position is unusual in that I have the skills and knowledge to make it work. Many people in my position would not

this is all discussed with my family and if I need to give up work to do this I will - but I will be paying myself a salary out of their money.

[quote=fifeandy ]Of course they have the means - its not overly difficult to liquidate some assets and pass them to kids/grandkids before they are needed.

It's a lot harder for the moderately affluent - particularly given we're talking mainly about the asset of the home people are living in here. The rich have assets they don't need to live which are a lot easier to pass on. Regarding care costs there are also already measures in place which mean money passed to your children counts as part of your assets when assessing eligibility for council funding.

I also have an immediate personal interest here - mum is currently in sheltered accommodation, and this would potentially hit as she owns her flat, though the expectation is that she will at some point move to a care home. I recently sold the family home she was living in before and liquidated that asset.

[quote=tjagain ]If they require care then I will use this money to ensure they have the care they need even if it means no inheritance for me.

This.

this is all discussed with my family and if I need to give up work to do this I will - but I will be paying myself a salary out of their money.

I've been doing something similar, but on a part time basis. But mentally I'm not capable of making the step to being a full time carer 🙁 best of luck if you choose this route yourself.

taxi

Its both my fortune and misfortune that I am a nurse specialising in care of the elderly - but I still don't know how I will react should it come to this with it being my own family when its different.

We had to pay for us pencils...

Not all of you did. Poor people around now too.

we had to save every penny for the 10% deposit we had to have for a house it took five years to save for

Five years? That all? Easy!

none of the other must have shit you all seem to think you're entitled to

That's bollocks. But apart from that you are right some stuff is better now, much better. And some stuff's worse.

we had to get a job at mill, walking 15 miles each way

And no doubt when you got home your dad would thrash you to sleep with his belt? 😉

we had to get a job at mill, walking 15 miles each way
And no doubt when you got home your dad would thrash you to sleep with his belt?

Needs Monty Python 4 Yorkshiremen sketch

Well if I'm honest, I do feel it's about time the baby boomers started paying their way.

That said I lucked out and got the last of the final salary pensions, house prices weren't that bad when I bought in. Never wanted Sky. Decent job too.

But no university grant although fees hadn't started) and I doubt I'll see the rise in assets my parents did. They reckon the same.

So yes. The OAPs have all the cash - they're going to have to fund the country.