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@thegeneralist - yeah I agree, I didn't word my orignal message very well. In the past I have made the incorrect assumption that my annual cover included cycling (mainly road) - but going forward I would take out separate insurance specific to that trip and those activities. In the past I have done a lot of cycling trips abroad that I honestly had just presumed were in the sports and hazardous activity cover.
Also had a message to advise me to read the reviews regarding Tripsure....they don't look particularly good at paying out when people have made a claim. We have a trip booked in May/June and another in August so I think I will also take out another annual policy from somewhere else....
My annual policy is through my RBS bank account. Used it last year when daughter was ill on a ski trip. It paid for her (non emergency) medical care, the cost of her ski school, lift pass and gear hire, as well as some of mine for the days I had to look after her. No quibble and lots of over the phone reassurance and offers of additional support such as translation services, medical advice line etc.
I used it a few years ago when I had my wallet and phone stolen in Granada, again it was faultless. Policy includes all dependents under age of 18 or in full time education. Covers diving to 35m, snow sports, road cycling and a decent range of hazardous sports without bolt on.
We travel a lot, annual policy is part of the benefits we get for our £15 per month account fee, also include European breakdown cover, mobile phone insurance and a few other benefits. Worth every single penny.
I've always got specific insurance when I've been abroad in the past doing outdoors stuff. Can't remember where from or how much, but it was for solo backpacking in Norway and Greenland and rock climbing in Verdon years back and to make sure I had rescue cover.
Tbh other times I've been abroad on l 'normal' holidays with family I'd not considered it, probably as any holiday abroad is such a rare occurrence it probably didn't cross my mind. These being Oz (work) and Portugal (once) and France (many times).
I do know a couple of people who've had mares abroad with accidents from random incidents on 'normal' holidays one with a seriously broken leg/hip in the US from an innocuous trip, and I think it was bad enough to sort even with insurance.
I guess if I renew my passport and go away again I'll be more aware or we'd end up being a go fund me case if anything happened.
Just be aware that most if not all the Holiday Insurance Providers who cover MTB are underwritten by a couple of insurance providers who use Claims Management Companies to handle any claims.
If it goes badly wrong on the mountain (helicopter recovery) make sure you follow the policy procedures in the right order or it could be costly.
Ours uses CSA who were a complete waste of time. They tried every way possible to wangle out of the claim
https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.csal.co.uk
Having just received a bill for a helicopter recovery (just under £9K if anyone is wondering) that’s not the kind of thing I want to hear right now….luckily we’re not with CSA
so I think I will also take out another annual policy from somewhere else….
Be careful with that – I'd suggest you cancel the crap policy and take out a new one, otherwise you may end up with both insurers saying the other insurer is liable (you'd be asked if any other insurance is in place upon making a claim).
"Killed instantly. £25k to bring his body home. I politely declined to donate."
Well, you definitely showed him...
If you don't mind me asking who's your insurer and who underwrites them and who do they out source to for managing the claims as we have found it hard to find one that doesn't use CSA
We got sorted in the end and the underwriters agreed that CSA were wrong. We used the FCA Consumer Duty Regs that came into force last year to show that the policy wording could not be adhered to. They couldn't, wouldn't, help with anything to do with a personal injury claim against anyone abroad. The Claims Management Companies are working on behalf of the Insurers to limit the liability of any claim.
I think if I died overseas I'd probably like to get a local cremation and posted home (or if anyone came over I could come back in their hand luggage.....)
username checks out 🤔bentandbroken Full Member
Having just received a bill for a helicopter recovery
@zilog6128 - Account was created while I was recovering from an (incredibly slow, mellow, benign on a ‘slight slope’) MTB crash and had multiple broken bones. The bent bit comes from the fact that my back is genetically ‘all over the show’
@Tracey - that’s for the PMs for now as the repatriation is ongoing and I don’t know how the rest is going to pan out…. Will ping some details later today
OK . Good look with it all and the recovery.
After 9 months Kevin is just back on the bike. Physically and mentally I don't think he will ever be the same.
Just wanted to wish you both all the best with the current challenges you are going through. I'm guessing Kevin is your oh Tracey? Best wishes for his gradual recovery.
Or mountain rescue. I don’t think helicopters come cheap! If you can’t drag your shattered leg off the mountain yourself, or you are unconscious and your mates won’t carry you down as your neck seems to be at a funny angle, that could financially ruin you
Actually they are free in principle bar in a small amount in some alpine resorts You got caught by private companies who are virtually scammers
Some silly has just put himself in the position of negating his travel insurance. Decided tombstoning off some rock in the Canary islands(Tenerife) was a good plan.
Until he overshot the mark and landed on the rocks instead.
Survived fortunately, but with smashed legs and feet, and probably spinal too.
Jesus wept.
Isn't tombstoning when you jump off one cliff/rock into the water?
Someone should have told him the second part is the critical bit
^^ That video make me physically cringe.
I pay something like £15/mo for a travel pack from my bank which is worldwide permanent travel insurance for the whole family and breakdown cover (for cars...). It's not a lot more than breakdown cover on its own. Also includes a few other things I forget what. I like fixed monthly costs.
I pay something like £15/mo for a travel pack from my bank which is worldwide permanent travel insurance for the whole family and breakdown cover (for cars…).
What's the details of the cover like?
I looked into it and it really was poor cover, with odd stipulations such as cycling only in marked bike lanes (so no road or trails) etc
Thoughts on this....?
I have to admit to being surprised that he didn't have insurance to cover this.
Maybe it's too risky to insure or a rescue is too dangerous? Can you even fly helicopters at that height?
Maybe I'm just too miserable and scared, but absolutely nothing about climbing Everest sounds fun or rewarding. Nose to tail with other foreigners for a selfie at the top, and possibly stepping over dead people to get there. I'd rather climb a much smaller mountain 10 times.
I thought it was generally too dangerous to attempt a rescue in the death zone.
plenty of people earlier in the thread [s]thick enough[/s] prepared to travel abroad without SAR/repatriation cover so doesn’t surprise me at all 🤷♂️I have to admit to being surprised that he didn’t have insurance to cover this.
quick google shows there definitely are insurance companies willing to insure for recovery above base camp altitude, no idea what the cost is though. They literally say on their page
which is fair enough I thinkOur maxim is, if you can’t afford travel insurance, you can’t afford to travel.
as an aside I recall reading the Nepalese are getting a bit cheesed off with rich westerners littering their sacred mountain with their corpses 😬
One of the sad insurance stories was on the news recently. Insurance didn’t pay out as the trip hadn’t started in the uk as specified. I think she was already abroad or something on the start of a multi country trip but they had taken insurance.
There are so many things to look out for.
Can we have links to the decent insurance companies pls.
I’ve been using my bank one, not cheap monthly but I bet it’s rubbish.
No retail UK travel insurance will cover you if your trip didn't start in the UK. (some corporate policies will).
Bank ones are not necessarily rubbish.
Mine is free with HSBC and is provided by Aviva. It's very generous.
Nationwide is now Aviva as well
Out of curiosity I google HSBC travel insurance. It does look quite good.
A big list of health conditions automatically covered. Looks like cycle touring would be covered with no helmet requirement. The exclusions related to cycing is "cycle racing" and "Mountain biking – other than trails graded as easy or moderate"
Thoughts on this….?
To me it feels pretty foolhardy. The risk of it being you are real. And the financial outcome and decision making after it turns out it is you is all on your relatives. At the very minimum you need to have had a conversation with your relatives before you go either saying ' this is access to my bank account and funds to pay for this' or 'if the worst happens I do not want you spending money on what is effectively a lost cause - I'm going to be dead'.
Bigger picture, I always wondered if I'd have liked to have done some bigger mountains - Himalayan but maybe not Everest. Everest itself now looks like a total shit show I'd not want to be associated with - the scandalous amounts of rubbish, the commercialism and the queuing. Only a complete bellend would want being dragged up it as a bragging right to their city boy mates these days. But bellends are not in short supply amongst that ilk.
Bigger picture, I stayed for a couple of weeks at around 4000m and then trekked up to 5000m for work last year and from a health perspective hated the experience. Until you've done it it's hard to understand but the headaches and the total exhaustion doing day to day things was just deeply deeply unpleasant and not something I'd voluntarily do again. The idea of going to 7000m and beyond doesn't bear thinking about, though we all react differently. Unless you are very lucky it's just a very unpleasant experience just being there.
No retail UK travel insurance will cover you if your trip didn’t start in the UK. (some corporate policies will).
i need to check this out. My daughter is covered under our family annual policy and is going off to camp America for 6 weeks. This is covered by their policy. She is then self travelling for 4 weeks after that in the States. So I guess this means the that the part covered under our policy is starting outside of the UK.
Looks like I need to make a phone call, and probably cough up more ££s
Everest itself now looks like a total shit show I’d not want to be associated with – the scandalous amounts of rubbish, the commercialism and the queuing. Only a complete bellend would want being dragged up it as a bragging right to their city boy mates these days.
Oh beautiful. That's actually what I wanted to say, but didn't. Especially this bit:
Only a complete bellend would want being dragged up it as a bragging right to their city boy mates these days.
No retail UK travel insurance will cover you if your trip didn’t start in the UK. (some corporate policies will).
I don't think this is true. World Nomads will:
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/travel-insurance-for-a-mtb-holiday-not-starting-in-the-uk/
The whole travel insurance assessment of risk seems totally bonkers, so it's not surprising people get caught out
We have travel insurance included with our home insurance. We checked the policy before we last travelled and it covers skiing and snowboarding (on-piste) but excludes cycling.... So I'm not covered pedalling along s traffic free, segregated bike path, bet am nailing a black run having never been skiing before on my life!!
Bonkers.
Doesn't negate the OPs point though!
Killed instantly. £25k to bring his body home. I politely declined to donate.
Wow. I'm sure his family are grateful for your generosity in teaching them a valuable lesson.
And again – a woman with known medical complaints hasn't declared them, is going to end up with a big bill, and the family are asking people to help.
Well, a lot of people with 'liver disease' spend quite a bit of their lives not necessarily in the best condition to make wise choices......
A good friend and his lad got helicoptered off the Matterhorn, they were above the Solvay hut when a weather front came in.
Won't tell me how much it cost him.
lies about medical condition (sorry, makes "error") in order to save money on insurance - but that invalidates said insurance so surely cheaper just to not bother in the first place 🤔😂a woman with known medical complaints hasn’t declared them, is going to end up with a big bill
in order to save money on insurance – but that invalidates said insurance so surely cheaper just to not bother in the first place
Yep - and don't you get asked if you have any pre-existing conditions when filling out the application in the first place?
Think so. Bit rich to claim the moral is not to buy cheap insurance when the moral is don't lie on the application.
A colleague had a ~300 grand bill for treatment and repatriation after a nasty fall on a corporate trip in China. Biggest hit was for the flight to Birmingham in an air ambulance at low altitude due to collapsed lungs... Think the broken limbs and other injuries were also a bit uncomfortable.
Had to pay for his own taxi to the hospital from the airport though, apparently that isn't part of "repatriation".
Still, 20 quid to get from the airport to the hospital isn't that bad...
Think so. Bit rich to claim the moral is not to buy cheap insurance when the moral is don’t lie on the application.
I agree. If everything in that story is as was printed, then I'm firmly on the side of the insurers
Yes, that liver story, I’ve yet to find any comparison or insurers sites where they don’t ask you to enter medical history before returning quotes. To say it’s an error is disingenuous, and to suggest she isn’t covered because it was cheap sounds a bit fictional. More like it was cheap because she didn’t declare it.
EDIT, I did some work in fraud in insurance and the company I was involved with had a keylogger on the online claims portal and they could tell if a customer had made multiple attempts to fill the claim form in, changing circumstances or inventory of loss etc. I suspect they have the same tech at quote stage and would quickly be able to see if there had been multiple quotes provided, with and without declared conditions.
Holiday insurance is not just for issues whilst on holiday.
When my mother died in 2018 my brother had booked a three week holiday in New Zealand that would have started about a week before. He had holiday insurance as part of his Nationwide account. She died only about three weeks after her diagnosis and he had arranged the holiday months before. The insurance company paid out nearly £8000 to cover flights, accommodation booked, car hire etc. with very little hassle when he cancelled for illness of a close family member.
Just trying to renew my motorcycle insurance & the forms have come back incorrectly completed yet again despite me telling them exactly what's required - so always worth checking the documents when they come through. Just pointing this out as it's not always the general public who at fault, you can sure as he'll be sure the telephone script would be 'lost' should I make a claim 😕
Wow. I’m sure his family are grateful for your generosity in teaching them a valuable lesson.
Oh dear, not sure how I’ll manage to get to sleep tonight…
I couldn’t care less about his family tbh, I didn’t like the guy and even if I did, a measly donation from me wouldn’t have made a dent into £25k.
Msybe someone on here has learned a lesson though.
It’s fairly simple, check you are covered for the activities you’re planning to do. Every policy I’ve ever had was fairly simple to understand what was and wasn’t covered, and you have the choice before paying for it.
The exclusions related to cycing is “cycle racing” and “Mountain biking – other than trails graded as easy or moderate”
Define "moderate" to a non riding insurance employee responsible for keeping payouts down....
a woman with known medical complaints hasn’t declared them, is going to end up with a big bill, and the family are asking people to help.
We've just taken out our travel insurance for a forthcoming trip. No declared issues = £32. Declared our modest, and unlikely to be so severe or quick to come on, issues and it's £122.
The temptation to save us great....
A Which spokesman says a quarter of travel claims are not paid. In this case it was a policy taken out when the traveler was already abroad that was the cause of not being covered.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-67795261
The temptation to save us great….
Mrs C's underactive thyroid normally adds a fair wack, despite an underactive thyroid incredibly rarely generating an emergency that would trouble you on a 7 day holiday.
Holiday insurance is not just for issues whilst on holiday.
Which is why it’s great to have an annual insurance and / or buy the cover shortly after you’ve paid £££. Just cos it has cover dates for when you’re away there is also coverage for other situations that might arise before you leave.
I couldn’t care less about his family tbh, I didn’t like the guy and even if I did, a measly donation from me wouldn’t have made a dent into £25k.
You know that episode of Alan Partridge where he writes his autobiography and every chapter ends with the words, "...and needless to say, I had the last laugh"?
How different insurer’s handle pre existing conditions is a mine field.
lets say you have high blood pressure and don’t declare it. If you then have a stroke or heart attack while away it’s pretty clear your policy is void. But - what about you break your leg?
i have had ski insurance that has stated that pre existing conditions can be undeclared and it doesn’t effect non related claims but I have had other insurance that states any misinformation voids the policy. Most sit somewhere in between and are not very clear.
so if I was to be charitable to Liver lady - maybe she rolled the dice and thought she would go uninsured for her liver condition but something else happened. It’s a stretch and in reality she just took the dumb option to save a few £ but pre existing conditions do require shopping around and reading the fine print
The outlook appears to be that the pre-existing condition has to be material to the loss. So, undeclared finger infection shouldn’t affect a broken leg while skiing. Same with house insurance, if you don’t have the minimum door lock standard but burglars break in through a window (that are as declared) then it “shouldn’t” void the policy.
Im assuming the lady in the liver story had a medical episode directly related to the undeclared pre-existing condition. If that is so, then Insurers are entitled to void it.
Another one!!! He'd even been refused insurance but still travelled...
My father has been refused travel insurance this last year.
Which means he is only holidaying in the UK home nations from here on in.
Simples.
Not travel insurance but just saw this on a local Facebook group. I almost admire the balls it takes to do this
Some woman posted asking people to donate to her Just Giving fundraiser to clear the finance on her dead father in law's car that her mother in law gave them without knowing it had finance on it
Unsurprisingly she's been torn to shreds in the replies
Potentially 2 underinsured parties here- as a paraglider I have insurance to cover 3rd party liability, but I would be unsurprised if the pilot in this story perhaps scrimped on this otherwise the costs would have been recovered from their cover.
The problem with that story is despite the hope that the 3rd party cover would step in, it is a lot slower to agree cover is in place for an policyholder in the event of a third party claim.
Again, a holidaymaker is running a risk of something adverse happening on holiday by not taking out cover. Had they done so, then their Insurers would likely step in immediately and deal with the medical costs, and then look to recover from the third party/their Insurers.
I find the level of naivety exhibited but some people in these stories incredible.
I'm totally out of the loop on travel insurance costs, I've typically only had bmc type mountaineering cover which is obviously 'a lot'
How much is a week of sun and seaside cover going to be?
Regardless of the foolishness of not getting insured, that has to be up there in the list of ways to receive life changing injuries you'd never imagine up if given an infinite amount of time and paper to write the list.
Slightly more sympathetic to someone in that situation that someone who didn't get insurance and then was the one doing high risk stuff like paragliding.....or getting shit faced and injuring themselves or riding a moped.
We were quoted 45 pounds for travel insurance for a three night holiday in Switzerland next month despite a whole week in Poland costing us a tenner earlier this year, seemingly because this time under medical conditions I declared I take omeprazole for heartburn. Not sure what kind of expensive heartburn related incident they expect me to have but whatever, cba to run the risk.
My bank account costs me £13 p/m. For that I get worldwide travel insurance for me and my family, inc snow sports, AA car recovery UK and Europe, basically free* cash withdrawal and credit card use abroad and a few other thing like mobile phone cover and extended warranties.
I bet a week travel insurance for three to Turkey is about a tenner each. I just don't understand why people would not get it.
*Not free, It still comes out of my bank!!
We were quoted 45 pounds for travel insurance for a three night holiday in Switzerland next month despite a whole week in Poland costing us a tenner earlier this year, seemingly because this time under medical conditions I declared I take omeprazole for heartburn
Wait until you have a few *proper* conditions to tell them about. I've had quotes that are more than the cost of the holiday...
Many 18-30 type holidaymakers may invalidate their cover anyway. In my wasted hours reading small print being drunk is usually not covered. Which rightly or wrongly I would assume to be around the UK drink drive limit.
Assuming no medical conditions it costs buttons. As a healthy 62 year old I got a month cover in the USA for £113 with Snowcard last year after removing all the theft cover
A week in Europe for a healthy person in their 20s must be trivial
Taking the theft cover out roughly halved the cost of cover. Presumably carelessness with property and/or fraud is a large percentage of claims.
I was happy to risk theft as mostly I was away from big cities and I carried a decent padlock and chain.
A week in Europe for a healthy person in their 20s must be trivial
18 year old, including 'activity pack' to cover MTB and hillwalking I'm Austria for a fortnight with Big Cat was £34. Apparently a round of drinks one evening was nearly that.
So not including activity pack would be maybe £20-25
I have just paid about £40 for me and the Mrs for 2 weeks in Portugal in February. We are both in our 50's.
My wife and I are 31 and she has asthma. Annual travel insurance costs just £24, so less than a main course in some places. This includes cruise cover too. It's a no brainer and works out at something silly like £2.08 per trip
. Annual travel insurance costs just £24
I presume though this excludes things like riding bikes, many activities such as swimming etc? I only say that as sister had 'free' insurance via bank and only after a (minor) accident discovered it excluded some real basics
I wouldn't dream of going anywhere without travel insurance - which now means not going anywhere because medical issues would make mine prohibitively expensive these days.
So basically I'd like to get superior and judgemental about these ****less people writing begging letters on GoFundMe or the like, except that I spent many a week hooning around various Greek islands on death-trap mopeds when I was in my 20s and I have absolutely no recollection of the idea of travel insurance even occurring to me.
Just for balance, sometimes when you do have the right insurance, the company then shits on you from a large height...
This one even had Larry the #10 cat backing her.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3vl40pvydyo
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3vl40pvydyo/a >
Even though she had insurance the family had to go on social media to get the insurance company to act properly
Even though she had insurance the family had to go on social media to get the insurance company to act properly
Yeah that's the insurer trying to avoid the costs of US treatment and get her back to the UK and into the NHS
A private air ambulance repatriation from the US to the UK, would likely be over £1 million, so they must really have been racking up the costs in the US to make that the cheaper option
Yeah they've hit the panic button and made a right arse of it there. Given it costs $1,800/night to sit in a (no better than NHS) chair beside someone being treated, I can't even imagine how wild the bills for 5 brain surgeries + care will be
AXA Partners are another one to avoid then (as well as Legal & General, who tried to stitch me up). They are scum
Not expecting to be a popular post but for some balance...
The policy limit is £15m. After a month in about the most expensive type of ICU there is, plus five operations involving brain surgeons, that limit might already be drawing close.
If the patient is likely to need long term care, then a decision to repatriate sooner leaves funds available for that long term care. Care won't be on the NHS as the treatment started privately. A few more weeks in the US, with potential for even more expensive operations might mean cover hits the limit and there is nothing left to pay for continued care, let alone repatriate.
AS Mashr says, US medical expenses are beyond the comprehension of most of us in the UK. Those policy limits of $10m or $15m seem may like telephone numbers but they can easily be breached. The NHS insulates most of us from the harsh reality of medical insurance and cover limitations.
I doubt the US hospital is sparing the expenses either as they know they have a pretty much guaranteed $15m to draw down, from an insurer they are unlikely to work with again. Kerching.
A private air ambulance repatriation from the US to the UK, would likely be over £1 million, so they must really have been racking up the costs in the US to make that the cheaper option
its nothing like that expensive. Maybe just nudging 6 figures, but not even close to £1mm https://www.iasmedical.com/north-america/air-ambulance-usa/