I think the idea of a gentler toot for cyclists is actually a good one.
As for the quasi military internal styling, that also makes sense. Someone pointed out a few pages back that a fossil fuelled vehicle didn't make a lot of sense. But for the prepper/camo-wearing wannabees it makes a lot of sense. An electric vehicle requires a lot of industrial infrastructure behind it and is therefore useless after the fall of civilisation - but a diesel that will run on vegetable oil will be fine.
Preppers will be setting up multiple sources of renewable energy, no?
No. They aren't interested in that sort of prepping.
but a diesel that will run on vegetable oil will be fine.
Indeed . So nothing post turn of the century pretty much then. Certainly not the grenedier unless you are gonna swap out the engine.
Weren't the (slightly incestuously rapey) preppers in a landrover killed in the end of Day of the Triffids by contaminating the diesel?
I’d drive it and toot the horn for shits and giggles 🙂
I hope it makes a “Poop-Poop” noise like Mr Toad’s car in The Wind In The Willows.
How about a "bing bong" as in "Avon calling"?
All they need now is to ensure that every repair only requires a flat-blade screw driver, an 8mm socket and a 4lb lump hammer, and I’d buy one myself.
Looks like you need allen keys too.
Anyhow they say beauty is in the eye of the beholder and my eye sees a hideous lump inside and out.
Is it some kind of fun noise too
perhaps they can change it from ‘toot’ to ‘tut’
Doesn't bode well, for the poor cyclist, out there, reading the road in front, occasional check behind, for some car to sneak up behind before giving them a TOOT, probably as close in as possible, resulting. break the concentration through to getting a start and going all wobbly.
It's not needed.
Try this out by totting cars when passing an articulated lorry and see how many friends you have waving hand signals at you.
Did you watch the video? Easy access for wiring in any add ons or replacements/upgrades.
From what I can ‘cupholder’ must be on the upgrade list then 🙂
But I can think of plenty of occasions, especially on country lanes, where being made aware of the presence of a vehicle, without being made to jump out of your skin, would be useful.
Unless you wear headphones or are hearing impaired you would hear a car behind you. On country lanes safe overtaking spots are limited, please tell why it's not a "move over" "toot"?
Why does the designer "toot" so often at cyclists? I don't think I have ever used my horn at a cyclist, why does he need to do it so often it's a fixture on a steering wheel?
Unless you wear headphones or are hearing impaired you would hear a car behind you. On country lanes safe overtaking spots are limited, please tell why it’s not a “move over” “toot”?
Rubbish. You always can't hear cars coming up behind you. Modern cars are very quiet and if you've got wind noise going on you have zero chance of hearing an apporoaching car from behind. Garmin seems to realise this or they wouldn't have made a rear radar to let you know of approaching cars. A toot will alert you to a car coming up. On UK narrow country lanes it's not always possible to leave the golden 3m clearance when passing. and its utter nonsense for a cyclist to expect a driver to hold back for a mile or more until the road widens, so sometimes drivers have to pass closer than 3m. When I do this I slow down and pass slowly. Also it should not be a ridiculous notion for cyclists to be a bit more thoughtful and on narrow country lanes to either pull over to the left to make it easier for a car to pass, or even pull in and let them pass if you know the stretch of narrow road goes on for a while. Who wants a car breathing up their arse for a mile or more?? I don't. So a gentle toot from behind alerts the cyclist to your presence and helps a safe pass for all involved.
Or you can just continue with the current silly cyclic vs driver nonsense that we so enjoy right now.
(I’m not looking for an argument, just repeating yours back to you).
But you aren't.
The post I replied to was something something headwind hearing something, it was from the point of view of the cyclist not the driver. But if you're not riding like a nob selfishly taking up all of the road then a blast (or toot) from a horn behind shouldn't be necessary.
The walkers taking up the whole of the road / path was from the point of view, again, of the cyclist not the walkers. If they're not walking like nobs selfishly taking up all of the road then the bell similarly shouldn't be necessary.
Whether you're on foot or on wheels you should be conscious that faster traffic may be behind you and you should yield when it is safe to do so. If you walk / ride to that assumption then it shouldn't matter whether there's anyone actually behind you or not as you're already progressing courteously.
On UK narrow country lanes it’s not always possible to leave the golden 3m clearance when passing. and its utter nonsense for a cyclist to expect a driver to hold back for a mile or more until the road widens, so sometimes drivers have to pass closer than 3m.
1.5 m is the minimum safe passing distance and if yo cannot give that 1.5 m then its not safe to overtake and you wait until it is.
Design of that ‘toot’ button reminds me of a Belkin Bluetooth headphone adapter I used to have. Except this has the bike icon where the play button should be.
As a result it’s a design that seems to go against convention. Why put a weird extra function in the place of an expected one?
Finding myself more on the side of the haters of the ‘toot’ button and the vehicle. Though ‘hate’ is a strong word. The whole thing is just not to my taste.
All this bile and whinging makes me want one.
Anyway, the "toot" should be a random Kenneth Williams sample.
it seems to be an underlying assumption in law that there might be occasions when giving a warning is totally appropriate & useful.
A ting of your bell before passing a narrow bridge on a a tow path with restricted visibility is a good idea - and I’ve seen not doing that result in people going for a swim!
Similarly there’s a dreadful junction near me where anyone who knows it hoots on their approach.
The Genadier is supposed to be a working vehicle (the whole interior can be hosed out for example with drain plugs in the footwells etc). I think the base model is targeted at £35k.
The 'cheery toot' button is bollocks though - the designers are not cyclists apparently and have not realised how easy it is to hear as car coming up behind.
A ting of your bell
But car horns and bicycle bells aren't equivalents. They may aim to do the same thing, but the response to them is different.
How about a “bing bong” as in “Avon calling”?
I rather like the idea of "Ding Dong" Leslie Phillips stylee.....
I'm not a fan of Jim, or the Grenadier, but I don't mind a soft toot button, I sometimes will give a tap on the horn when heading towards a cyclist/ a group of cyclists in certain circumstances just to warn them that there's something coming up behind them. I don't do it right behind because I still to look some distance ahead of me.
I've ridden a lot in Europe and a lot of drivers give a double toot to do the exact same thing. Just like I usually give a toot coming into a hairpin bend to alert other road users that something is on the road out of view.
The ‘cheery toot’ button is bollocks though – the designers are not cyclists apparently and have not realised how easy it is to hear as car coming up behind.
The designer says in the interview that they regularly use their car horn to "alert" cyclists to their presence in a car
As for the "toot" itself, no one has heard it
I imagine the first time it gets used on Jim Ratcliffe on a training ride in Monaco will be the last time it's fitted to the car
I sometimes will give a tap on the horn when heading towards a cyclist/ a group of cyclists in certain circumstances just to warn them that there’s something coming up behind them.
What response are you expecting from the people cycling?
It's a move over and let me past button, can't be anything else. If you've no intention of forcing your way past why does the cyclist even need to know you are there ?
I’ve registered my interest in pre-ordering
And there we have it. The name calling and aggression are doing a great job of putting you firmly in the exact personality band that nickc described with their first post...
lol
MY aggression ? haha You're a funny guy.
£35K ?? pull the other one
a base spec Hilux is that sort of money, made in the millions and able to share it's development and manufacturing costs with the massive number of other Toyota's made.
This Grenadire is one vehicle, expensively engineered by an (expensive) consultant, and made in a factory all on it's own.
At anything less than £55k they'll be loosing money on each and every one they sell.......
Your horn is there to announce your presence to other road users.
They have added a specific short “toot” function so that cyclists don’t feel threatened when it’s used .
I utterly fail to see why that causes the vitriol seen here.
For once, and probably the only time :-), I agree. Not sure what the toot sounds like but if it is a polite noise it will work in same way as the polite noise my bike bell makes.
Coming up behind people walking, polite bell ring, they are then aware of me and say thank you as I pass them rather than me just riding past and catching them by surprise.
I can't actually see many drivers using it though as it would mean a level of respect to cyclists which is not common for most drivers is it. The drivers who use it will be the ones that already slow down a bit, give loads of room, don't pass on blind corners etc,.
**** me, what a couple of fun sponges.
Lol! That's so good, it's almost art.
Is it some kind of fun noise too?
On second thoughts, I'm in if it's this:
Or possibly some French dude shouting 'Allez, allez!'
I've got one to go on my bike
The drivers who use it will be the ones that already slow down a bit, give loads of room, don’t pass on blind corners etc,.
So, the ones unlikely to be driving a Grenadier?
Folk go on line this car is another posh 4x4 for footballers wife wannabes.
It’s absolutely not.
It’s more like a tractor with a comfy body on top.
It’s a serious tool to replace defender
It’s a serious tool to replace defender
Most people driving the newer defenders around here appear to fit the posh 4x4 description, so I predict that the main market is for serious tools, rather than being one. Working 4x4s are older defenders or hilux type things this way.
It’s a defender for serious tools
It’s more like a tractor with a comfy body on top.
It’s a serious tool to replace defender
Well that was the design brief but it's suffered serious scope creep.
Is there anything worth reading on pages 2,3,4 of this thread, say I say the socks thread was a 2/10 for worthiness, how does this compare?
Folk go on line this car is another posh 4×4 for footballers wife wannabes.
It’s absolutely not.
It’s more like a tractor with a comfy body on top.
It’s a serious tool to replace defender
LOL
No one has driven the production model, there will be more in London than the rest of the UK
What on earth is this for? You drive up behind a cyclist, you give them a "toot". What then do you expect them to do? And what do you do if they don't?
You should expect them to do absolutely nothing. Carry on as before. It's on you to overtake properly at the next safe opportunity. And FFS they already know you're there. So what is this button going to add to the world except to make driving even worse among folk who are already dangerous enough?
I have a pretty relaxed attitude and am no militant but "friendly toot" my arse. I can't see any good in this.
Its only mitigating factor is that they won't sell many of these monstrosities.
Interior makes sense to me, but I spend my days driving an old defender and tractor.
I'm just waiting on them doing a super cab pickup or something like my 130 as I don't want the fuel cans in the cab and it needs to fit fenceposts in.
People like myself aren't a big market, but there isn't a lot of choice for something like this either.
What on earth is this for? You drive up behind a cyclist, you give them a “toot”. What then do you expect them to do? And what do you do if they don’t?
You should expect them to do absolutely nothing. Carry on as before. It’s on you to overtake properly at the next safe opportunity. And FFS they already know you’re there.
The point is you may not know they are already there. Just as people walking may not know I am close behind them so a polite ring of bell let's them know so it is not a shock when I ride past. Pretty much everyone says thank you.
That is all in theory though and in reality it is fairly pointless as a car is a lot noisier than my bike and I can always hear cars behind me from quite a way back and as I said before the drivers who would care enough to use this feature are not the drivers who you need to know are behind you.
There may be a few
drivers who would care enough to use this feature
but in that context "feature" is not just the button but how it's used. I think cyclists' concern is about how the existence of this red button might contribute to the negative behaviour of so many others, who I think it is very unlikely will use it in this way.
Just so long as the cable used to wire up the tooter is of sufficient audiophile quality, I don’t see what the issue is.
There is one cable for the toot horn function in forward gears and another for the same function in reverse gear.
Serious question here:
No one has driven the production model, there will be more in London than the rest of the UK
Is that the case for Defenders, Hi-lux’s etc…? Not looking for an argument - does anyone have some stats on this…?
For once, and probably the only time :-), I agree. Not sure what the toot sounds like but if it is a polite noise it will work in same way as the polite noise my bike bell makes.
Coming up behind people walking, polite bell ring, they are then aware of me and say thank you as I pass them rather than me just riding past and catching them by surprise.
Exactly. And while we're at it I hope we're all tooting our horns as we approach blind bends and hump back bridges to alert people on the other side of you approaching? That's Advanced Motoring technique there. All it is is something to alert people to your presence and give them notice you're coming. It's not an instruction or order to take any action, just an awareness thing. This is nothing new and is ultimately the prime purpose of having a horn fitted to your car in the first place. Its law to have a functioning horn on your car...not so you can tell someone you thing they're a **** if they pull out on you, but to alert others to your presence and increase overall awareness out on the busy roads and ultimately improve safety. I really struggle to see how some people are struggling with this concept? Seems a pretty good idea to me. I've always tooted as I approach a blind bend or hump back bridge, but wouldn't toot a cyclist because I know their first reaction is likely to be some hand gesture aimed at me. But what a nice world it would be if I were to toot a cyclist on a tight country road and they gave a nice 'thank you' wave back.
