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If she (and her partner) identify themselves as Jewish, who is anyone to argue?
It depends if she identifies as Jewish as lots of people identify as Christian; that is to say broadly speaking they follow the tenets but they don't worship in a church/synagogue. That leaves a lot of room for the "she is/isn't Jewish" discussion. I used to work with a practicing Jew who described a lot of his friends as "Jew-ish" which meant they didn't worship but were still on the fringes of the faith and would have described themselves as Jewish if asked. That said, he also once referred to Golders Green as Jewtopia so perhaps his perspective was a little bit skewed towards amusing soundbites.
So yeah. Nothing insightful to add.
@jambayla...I hope you can defend, provide evidence and give reasons for such vitriolic words as "Jackie Walker is a vile and agressive anti-semite". Your statement is a massive slur on someones character.
One really ought to remember this is a bike riders forum EVB, ever so slightly precious there mate !
As for character slurs poor old Jambas been assasinated to death on here 😉
a Jewish mum and son go to the beach, as the son is paddling in the shallows, a huge wave comes from nowhere and sweeps him away. Distraught, she pleads to the Almighty, "Please God, save my only son". At which point the waters part, and there stands her son.
"Ach", she says, "but he had a hat..."
assasinated to death
I'm looking for anyone who hasn't been 'assassinated to death'.
Assassinated to mildly annoyed?
Assassinated to a bit miffed?
Assassinated to Belgium?
😀
"What will the money be used for?"
It's explained in the first post of this thread. 🙄
[i]"I am Jackie Walker, life-long anti-racist campaigner and socialist. I was suspended from the Labour Party in May of this year, amidst what appears to have been a breach of Data Protection law by Iain McNicol as General Secretary of the Labour Party.
This is my campaign to raise money in order to bring legal proceedings against Iain McNicol for this serious breach of data – briefing a major community media publication or other parties before informing me of my suspension from the party. This is not acceptable in his position as General Secretary of the Labour Party."[/i]
What is very interesting about the latest farce, is that the video of Ms Walker from the JLM/Momentum training meeting, was leaked to the Daily Telegraph. Now, why would a member of the Jewish LABOUR Movement deliberately chose a right-wing paper that strongly supports the tories? Why didn't they go to the Mirror, or Guardian?
If one were cynical, one might think that the whole thing was a set-up, designed to cause maximum damage to a candidate involved in a democratic election process, rather than genuinely having anything to do with actual anti-Semitism....
As the meeting took place after the Leadership Election was decided, it wasn´t much of a conspiracy.
It's still part of the anti-Corbyn 'anti-Semitism' smear campaign though. Which has pretty much been exposed for what it is; those crying 'anti-Semitism' the loudest, seem to be those most opposed to Corbyn. For the obvious reason that they fear Corbyn will distance Labour from Israel, and they (JLM) will be left exposed out in the political cold. As a Labour party member, I welcome any move away from supporting the vile apartheid Israeli regime, and would like to see those who've hijacked Labour for their own political ends regarding their support for this regime, to leave Labour for good.
Supress dissent
clodhopper - Member
As a Labour party member, I welcome any move away from supporting the vile apartheid Israeli regime, and would like to see those who've hijacked Labour for their own political ends regarding their support for this regime, to leave Labour for good.
You got to let it go man coz that's a foreign country.
If one were cynical, one might think that the whole thing was a set-up, designed to cause maximum damage to a candidate involved in a democratic election process, rather than genuinely having anything to do with actual anti-Semitism.
What was she a candidate for?
At the time of the recording what democratic election process was active that she was involved with?
As she said herself. There is NO definition of anti-Semitism she could work with. Quite.
[b]Still waiting for an explanation as to what "injustice" Walker has suffered.[/b]
She's a serial offender living on borrowed time. It's only the lame Labour Party rules and the safe space Corbyn has created for anti-Semitism (see cross-party Select Committee report) which means she is not facing a life ban as a serial offender.
Obviously up to individuals if they want to donate, the "data protection" claim is spurious to say the least. The complaint is her suspension was leaked to the press thus breaching her data confidentiality re her Labour Party Membership status. Clutching at straws. Plus of course the usual "distress" rubbish, quite ironic given her wilful intervention to create as much offence as possible at a meeting she had no need to attend.
Her suspension was of course no surprise at all as such grounds for a "leak" complaint are equally flaky.
If people need a guide as how to oppose Israeli Government policy from within the Labour Party they should look at Gerald Kaufman.
I don't need anyone to defend me here, the Labour Party is taking action and the Commons Select Commitee report says it quite clearly. Labour MP after Labour MP has spoken of the poison within the Party
Nothing Walker has said which has lead to her 2 suspensions has made any reference to Israel, only Jews. She knows exactly what she is doing to create maximum offence to Jews not the Israeli state. That's who she is
You know, I've done quite a bit of googling on this now (vaguely aware of the whole labour anti Semitic claims) and the more one looks, the more one finds committed "Israel/Zionist" supporting left wing labour party members pushing an agenda of narrowly defined anti Semitic language onto people merely raising questions (mostly it would appear to deflect criticism of the Israeli Govt.) and trying to control the subsequent debate. I've no dog in this fight (I vote green) so it would appear to be normal Labour left wing internal fighting that often erupts into the public domain.
She's a serial offender
my search revealed that she used the word Holocaust when referring to the African experience of the slave trade, on her FB account (if that matters).
At an workshop at a labour event she asked for clarification regarding security around London Jewish schools, raised a question about the apparent lack of commemoration of loss of life suffered by others in the Nazi holocaust and asked for a good definition of Antisemitism (something that actually appears to be quite hazy, I was surprised to learn). Some of these questions were raised at a learning workshop whose purpose was to explore these sorts of questions...Kafka-esque springs to mind...
Are you suggesting, Jamby that it is anti-Semitic to even ask questions? You don't have to answer that BTW, I think I have an idea what you'll say anyway.
yeah.. [url= http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Just_asking_questions ]'just asking questions'[/url] aka JAQing off - [i]the act of spouting accusations while cowardly hiding behind the claim of 'just asking questions[/i]'.
An insidious technique because obv asking questions is fundamental to any sort of discourse. In Walker's case, going to an antisemitism workshop on some biscuit-arsed fact-finding mission would seem to be text-book JAQing off, IMHO - sea-lioning as it is sometimes referred to on t'internet.
Excuse me my Good sir, if it's not too much trouble, could you furnish me with a definition of 'antisemitism'. Aye, right Jackie.
[img] 
[/img]
For John Mann, Labour MP and Chair of All Party Group on Anti-Semitism
Mr Mann said: “Enough is enough. Though she claims impunity for many reasons, Jackie Walker’s behaviour is discriminatory, provocative, offensive and by any standard unacceptable in a modern political party.“Not only has she caused offence personally, she has inspired waves of anti-Semitic and racist backlash including Holocaust denial.
“Not only must she be expelled from the Labour Party immediately but all those abusing others in supporting her must go too.
“Temporary suspensions are not good enough, these people must be given permanent bans and no platform to express their anti-Semitism anywhere in the Labour Party, if we are to be serious about opposing anti-Jewish hatred.”
Now Ken Livingston, a man we all know "has form" (John mann's phrase) on anti-Semitism tries to use the [b]ignornace[/b] defence for Jackie Walker. Now I don't buy that for second as Walkre is well versed in Jewish matters as a campaigner and if poster here says she is a "practicing Jew" she would be well aware that what she saying is wrong and deeply offensive. She knows it's offensive to Jews, that's why she is saying it. To do so is racist. Just like her partner in this crime Ken Livingstone.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jackie-walker-suspended-labour_uk_57ef6ab1e4b0397f73b99cf2
hmmm John Mann, right ho then
@nick the slave trade theme (picked by by Black Lives Matter in the US btw) is seeking to imply Jews where responsible for the slave trade by being the primary financiers. Gets the classic Jews/money/moral corruption slur in there as well. As for school security it wasn't an innocent question, anyone who knows anything is well aware that Jewish schoolsnare well protected by fences, cctv, security doors due to longstanding threats. At the current time it is on another level after a Jewish School was the initial target for the Paris terrorist who wentnon to murder the shoppers in the Jewish supermarket. Jewish schools in Paris have been profected by the army ever since. Again given her history it would be extraordinary if she was not aware of this. As people said at the meeting, our schools are
projected as ISIS are trying to kill our children.
Nick John Mann has for 10 years been chair of the all party Commons group on anti-Semitism, you can't just dismiss him like that imo
Lets be very clear, opposing Israeli government policy is legitimate. Opposing the existance of the only Jewish State is something else entirely. Abusing Jewish people and students as you oppose the Isreali governmet is racism.
The Lib Dems have has their own issues, Baroness Tonge who accompanied Corbyn to meet Hamas has jumped before she was expelled from the Lib Dems. She Chaired an event at Westminster at which deeply anti-Semitic speakers where invited to present. Such invited are huge PR victories to these people
Baroness Tonge is seen by many senior Lib Dems as a major embarrassment to the party, which has faced it's own controversy over anti-Semitic comments in the way Labour has over the past year.
Cool your boots Jamba.
Oh look - what a surprise! J-Li posting pages and pages of accusations about anti-Semitism. This from the guy who justifies bombing civilians in Gaza. Anyone would think he had an agenda or something!!
You know, I've done quite a bit of googling on this now (vaguely aware of the whole labour anti Semitic claims) and the more one looks, the more one finds committed "Israel/Zionist" supporting left wing labour party members pushing an agenda of narrowly defined anti Semitic language onto people merely raising questions (mostly it would appear to deflect criticism of the Israeli Govt.) and trying to control the subsequent debate. I've no dog in this fight (I vote green) so it would appear to be normal Labour left wing internal fighting that often erupts into the public domain
Nail and head
Essentially pro israelis want anyone who criticises israel to be consider a racist and to conflate the two terms
Mugabe does this when anyone white criticises him
Its to stifle and change the debate as what they do is not defensible under normal morality nor international law
the slave trade theme (picked by by Black Lives Matter in the US btw) is seeking to imply Jews where responsible for the slave trade by being the primary financiers. Gets the classic Jews/money/moral corruption slur in there as well.
Well, there's pretty well established evidence regarding Dutch Jewish involvement in the salve trade. [url= http://www.jta.org/2013/12/26/news-opinion/world/dutch-rabbi-confronts-jews-with-ancestors-complicity-in-slavery ]From the JTA after a minutes googling[/url] This is an historic fact, and shouldn't be thought of as some sort of slur, we're none of us responsible for what our ancestors did, but to blindly ignore it, or pretend it didn't happen is a sort a white wash Stalin would be proud of. Secondly who are we to deny the effect the slave trade had on Africans? they were murdered and enslaved in their millions, so to equate this to an holocaust seems on the face of it, legitimate, no?
There's ample evidence that many many races, peoples families and individuals profited from the slave trade, the Whitehouse was built by slaves, the British Empire was built largely on the backs of slavery, and all religions and creeds were involved, including Jews, Muslims and Christians
Liverpool profited hugely from the slave trade. Some of Britains most prolific slavers operated from there.
In fact Penny Lane is named after James Penny, one of the most vociferous Pro-Slave characters.
So using JambyLogic, the Beatles are racist slave apologists!
There are people who will accuse anyone who criticises Israel of anti semitism, but equally there are those who will defend any accusation of antisemitism by saying "I was merely talking about Israel".
There are extremists on both sides, but in this case Jamba is right (cough).
If you know that a group of people has a hair trigger on a particular subject, then you can:
a) avoid it, be careful what you say, measure your words and be careful to state clearly that your opposition to e.g. the Israeli government is not a reflection on the racial identity of people who voted them in (and even more so people with the same identity who don't even live there).
or
b) turn up at a meeting on antisemitism and start questioning the definition of anti-semitism, the inclusivity of holocaust memorial day and the need for security around jewish schools.
Pick one.
If you choose the wrong one by accident maybe politics is not your forte?
If you pick the wrong one deliberately, maybe you have some underlying issues you need to talk about.
If in doubt, remember:
c) Tell people that jews were involved in the slave trade. This is merely a factual statement and no-one should be offended by facts surely?
Any questions about why you mention these particular "facts" should be deflected with talk about how everyone was involved and on no account explain why, that being the case, only Jewish involvement was thought worthy of being mentioned.
Oh, if all else fails remember d) "hitler was a zionist" That'll help get a reasonable discussion going.
Sorry to drag this thread up once more, but it is important, in the context of this discussion, that certain inaccuracies/factually incorrect statements/blatant lies are countered, in order to help form a more accurate and truthful framework around which the debate can progress.
"As she said herself. There is NO definition of anti-Semitism she could work with. Quite."
I'm not going to address every single incorrect statement you make on here Jamba, because life is simply too short. But let's just try this one as an example.
Jackie Walker didn't actually say what you claim she did. What she actually did say, was:
[i][b]“I was looking for information and I still haven’t heard a definition of antisemitism that I can work with.”[/b][/i]
Which I assume was in the context of the demands by the JLM to accept their definition over any other. JW has herself said she can work with David Schneider's definition of anti-Semitism. So, somewhat different to saying there is 'no' definition she can work with.
You see, here we have a perfect example of your revisionism and insidious attempts to distort and pervert the truth. Which, given the number on here who've successfully countered many points of your argument, is just one of many, which exposes you as someone quite incapable of sensible, rational and respectful debate. You really, really can't just keep making stuff up simply to suit your own agenda. That's not how the truth works. Everyone on this thread can see this, I'm mystified why you'd be so insistent on digging an ever deeper hole. Shouting louder and louder about your own opinions doesn't create facts or the truth, it merely makes your inaccuracies and lies more grotesque.
This cold be a very interesting, enlightening and informative discussion/debate. Personally, Jamba, I think it can only really be that without your input. It would be nice if you were able to show others some respect, have some dignity and self awareness, and bow out. Thanks.
Sorry to drag this thread up once more, but[s] it is important, in the context of this discussion[/s] I'm keen to have the last word/looking for an arguement,
Can we have a quick recap of where each poster stands, which poster is getting lambasted for holding a differing view that the rest etc etc...
I'm bored ..
It strikes me as very Orwellian. As she says:
As a Jewish person, whose partner is Jewish, this was heart-breaking.
It would be interesting to see what financial benefits those pushing this ban have with Israeli govt interests.
"I'm bored .."
Have a read of the thread then... 🙄
"It would be interesting to see what financial benefits those pushing this ban have with Israeli govt interests."
Well, the director of the JLM is a former Israeli embassy officer:
As I've said previously, the JLM positions itself as representing Jewish members of the Labour Party. Something which many Jewish Labour members disagree with, and who don't recognise the JLM as speaking for them. The JLM is vehemently pro-Israel, and opposed to anyone critical of the Israeli regime. They have a vested interest in trying to discredit and marginalise any dissenting voices who challenge their own stance on Israel. The JLM will actively target anyone who they feel is 'pro-Palestinian.
What is interesting, is that a growing number of Jewish Labour party members are now speaking out against the JLM. I'd say that it's highly possible that the JLM will end up being 'disaffiliated' from Labour, and they are being increasingly exposed as a right-wing pro-Israel lobbying group.
https://jewsforjeremy.org/tag/jlm/
The JLM attempted to hijack the recent Cable St memorial event, by going against normal protocol and holding up a huge banner, when the accepted course of behaviour is to place al banners to the side, and stand united as party members. Repeated requests from other attendees were ignored, to the point where a 90-year old lifelong Jewish Labour member denounced their behaviour as 'disgusting' and 'shameful'. I feel personally, that they had little interest in supporting the memorial, and were instead intent on using the event as an opportunity to 'protest' against Corbyn. Which was incredibly disrespectful, given that it was a memorial event to honour those who fought against the fascist Oswald Mosely and his fascist Blackshirts, and not a party political rally.