Aren't the amendments all additions? Adding rights is easier than taking them away I suspect.
I still think this is a wonderful exhibit A when discussing American right-wing views:
s Chris Rock (I think) said, make the bullets $1000 each.
And make it the law that every firearm must be painted Barbie Pink and sprinkled with glitter and feathers. Whould chip away at the macho image!
Why anyone living in an urban or suburban area would *need* a gun is a mystery to me. So probably 300,000,000+ people could only need a gun to protect themselves from other humans.
Huge social and race issues, leading inevitably to crime related issues. And since those issues aren't going to be sorted any time soon, I can understand why they feel the need for handguns. I also understand the rifles for hunting business.
What I don't understand is the need for semi auto and automatic weapons to be available to the general population.
I've always found it funny that some of them state they need to have firearms in case they need to defend themselves against the government. The last time they did that was 1861-1865, and look how well that turned out.
The last time they did that was 1861-1865, and look how well that turned out.
Not enough guns. Next time will be different.
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To be fair I'm much more likely to be killed by cheese than by a gun.
Any person who has psychological issues like these cases will find a weapon and kill people. No amount of legislation will stop that.
It happens all over the world, including Europe.......
Raol Moat
Anders Breivic
Derrick Bird
Dale Cregan
So why is gun crime so high in the US then LHS if it's nothing to do with proliferation of guns? It's just part of the culture?
To be fair I'm much more likely to be killed by cheese than by a gun.
The smell of a nice ripe Epoisse could kill as well as any assault rifle.
Raol Moat
Anders Breivic
Derrick Bird
Dale Cregan
You've left out all the people who [i]haven't[/i] gone on shooting sprees because of anti-gun legislation.
And btw killing 4 people is quite a pathetic killing spree, if people with "psychological issues" could get their hands on fully automatic weapons, then I'm sure we could match the United States killing sprees much better.
Always easy to point the finger rather than accept there are issues closer to home.
Let's not even talk about knife crime in this country.
Well it's certainly easy to point to facts. IIRC Dale Cregan killed 4 people, I can't see how that is comparable to a typical shooting spree in the US.
Grenade attacks, a little more of a step on from shootings.
Always easy to point the finger rather than accept there are issues closer to home.
Well the US has massively higher gun violence than this country. 10.3 gun deaths per 100,000 people as opposed to 0.25. So yes it is easy to point the finger in this case.
Let's not even talk about knife crime in this country.
Always easy to point the finger rather than accept there are issues closer to home. 😉
Grenade attacks, a little more of a step on from shootings.
Do you think the rarity of grenade attacks might be connected to the fact that owning a grenade is illegal in the UK ?
To pretend that the UK has simular issues with regards to killing sprees as the US is bizarre.
Always easy to point the finger rather than accept there are issues closer to home
You can ignore it if you like, but close to 1000 knife related crimes in London alone every month. Not exactly great statistics.
Do you think the rarity of grenade attacks might be connected to the fact that owning a grenade is illegal in the UK ?
If you legalised them grenade attacks would still be rare. Crossbows are legal. You don't face a hail of crossbow bolts going to the pub even in the north.
close to 1000 knife related crimes in London alone every month. Not exactly great statistics.
So the fact that carrying a gun is illegal isn't helping ?
To pretend that the UK has simular issues with regards to killing sprees as the US is bizarre
To ignore our own problems and concentrate on another countries is even more bizarre.
😯
If you legalised them grenade attacks would still be rare.
Well I don't understand why owning a grenade is illegal then.
Right I'm out of here.
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EDIT : [i]"To ignore our own problems"[/i] Because of course I argued that the UK was free of all social and crime related problems ? Priceless ! 😀
Well I don't understand why owning a grenade is illegal then.
Nanny state?
You can ignore it if you like, but close to 1000 knife related crimes in London alone every month. Not exactly great statistics.
To ignore our own problems and concentrate on another countries is even more bizarre.
😕
And they say Americans don't understand irony (or should that be hypocrisy). You're American right?
And the answer to our knife crime problem is to legalise guns I suppose?
You're American right?
Nope.
Just find it bizarre that a nation who has HUGE social issues and a knife crime culture spiralling out of control is so transfixed on solving another nations problems first.
Guns / Grenades / Knives - they all kill people. Only just recently we had a horrific machete attack in broad daylight on the streets of London.
Any person who has psychological issues like these cases will find a weapon and kill people. No amount of legislation will stop that.
Quite, but it's the nature of that weapon that's the issue. Would you rather a nutter go on a spree with a breadknife or with an assault rifle?
Just find it bizarre that a nation who has HUGE social issues and a knife crime culture spiralling out of control is so transfixed on solving another nations problems first.
What do national boundaries have to do with it?
[i]Only just recently we had a horrific machete attack in broad daylight on the streets of London. [/i]
which would have been a lot less horrific if the perpetrators had had easy access to automatic weapons?
The UK gangs seem to be about where the US ones were in the 60's and 70's with knife crime. Let's hope it doesn't escalate to guns the way it has done in the US.
You can ignore it if you like, but close to 1000 knife related crimes in London alone every month. Not exactly great statistics.
You know the first thing that listening to More or Less on R4 (A program I heartily recommend) as taught me is that when presented with a big number like that you should always ask is "is it a big number?". It certainly appears to be big but given that there are just over 8 million people in London it may not be. There is also no comparison with any other data with which to compare it. Additionally there is the question of what constitutes "knife related crime"? Does stealing a kitchen knife from a shop count, does being threatened (but not harmed) by someone carrying a knife count, does the knife have to be visible for it to count? Basically you've thrown out an irrelevant number in the hope of distracting from the valid criticism of gun deaths in the US. Not a very good debating technique really.
And the answer to our knife crime problem is to legalise guns I suppose?
....or hand grenades? 😀
The UK gangs seem to be about where the US ones were in the 60's and 70's with knife crime. Let's hope it doesn't escalate to guns the way it has done in the US.
Unlikely unless they start selling assault rifles in Tesco
Its desperately tragic that (I think), the NRA said after teh school shooting that a bad guy with a gun could be stopped by a good guy with a gun..
So here we have a bad guy with a gun in a building full of good guys with guns....
I remember getting into this conversation with a guy in a bar on the quayside in New York, basically, it came down to the fact he didn't feel safe or properly dressed without "Mr Heckler and Mr Koch". Sure enough, he was carrying a gun... and did so every day.
I can't understand it in 2013... just seems nuts. But the public gets what the public wants I suppose.
You're American right?
Nope.
Could have sworn you've said you were American on previous threads. You've certainly been weirdly defensive about America before.
Just find it bizarre that a nation who has HUGE social issues and a knife crime culture spiralling out of control is so transfixed on solving another nations problems first.
We have a 'knife crime culture spiralling out of control' and 'HUGE social issues'? Maybe London does, I don't know but things seem pretty peachy in general in this country.
You know the first thing that listening to More or Less on R4 (A program I heartily recommend) as taught me is that when presented with a big number like that you should always ask is "is it a big number?".
You do raise an interesting point. Are the number of gun deaths in the US a large number?
The answer is no.
Compare them to road deaths, tobacco deaths, pretty much anything you like. The chance of getting killed with a gun is so close to zero you can forget about it.
They definitely need to start making more of an effort to kill people with cars then. Maybe more drunk driving?
Basically you've thrown out an irrelevant number in the hope of distracting from the valid criticism of gun deaths in the US.
January 2013:
1,038 victims of kife crime
410 injuries
4 murders
Remaining were threatened (mugged etc)
Living in London, I would say that its a pretty significant number to be concerned. No distraction, just concerned.
I also think that having someone hacked to death with a machete is more horrific than being shot with a gun.
You've certainly been weirdly defensive about America before.
Weirdly defensive versus weirdly critical.
The difference being acknowledgement of problems in ones own country first.
The US has far greater social issues than the UK imo.
Why is it that, per head, even thought Canada has nearly as many firearms than America its gun violence tally is far, far lower?
Not the page I wanted (comparing gun crime in the US to a developing nation or one at war isn't really fair), but it proves a point: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2012/12/14/schoo-shooting-how-do-u-s-gun-homicides-compare-with-the-rest-of-the-world/
This is before we get into countries like Switzerland, where I believe you keep your national service weapon...
the point you are failing to get LHS is that 1 person was hacked to death with a machete and 20 people were shot
more horrific or not 11 more bereaved families, because of the weapon used
The difference being acknowledgement of problems in ones own country first.
I acknowledge we have problems in our own country (but not as many as America).
Now can we get on with talking about the topic please?
Why is it that, per head, even thought Canada has nearly as many firearms than America its gun violence tally is far, far lower?
I suspect because they don't have the same ridiculous culture of fetishising guns and violence (and they have less social problems).
I also think that having someone hacked to death with a machete is more horrific than being shot with a gun.
Can we start a league table then? Being dispatched from a distance, with a snipers rifle, is clearly almost like dying naturally in your sleep, at a ripe old age, having lived a full and rewarding life. But what would be at the top?
For me it'd be being thrown into a pit of genetically modified, psychotic zombie gerbils, with little mini chainsaws?
What about you?
I am a fan of Sam Harris and this is on my reading list for later.
[url= http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-riddle-of-the-gun ]The riddle of the gun[/url]
Can we start a league table then? Being dispatched from a distance, with a snipers rifle, is clearly almost like dying naturally in your sleep, at a ripe old age, having lived a full and rewarding life. But what would be at the top?
I think the point you're missing here binners is that one machete death is worth roughly 20 gun deaths, in terms of horrificicity.
So we need some sort of more complex comparison table as each death doesn't have the same weight, apparently.
So extrapolating from January (I know that's fairly problematic) that gives an annual death rate from knives at 0.6 per 100,000. Given earlier data of over 10 per 100,000 in the US for gun deaths it would appear that adding the knife and gun deaths in the UK together would give a death rate in the UK less than that for gun deaths alone in the US. Assuming the knife death rate in London is representative of the UK as a whole.
On that basis I'm going to go with the gun problems in the US are an order of magnitude worse than the combined gun and knife problems in the UK.
Compare them to [b]road deaths[/b], tobacco deaths, pretty much anything you like. The chance of getting killed with a gun is so close to zero you can forget about it.
On the road deaths front, according to wikipedia, the US had 33000 road deaths in 2009, it had 11000 firearms homicides. Whilst there's obviously a big difference, it's not as stark as you make out.
I'm not sure how stark I made it out to be, but I don't worry at all about dying in my car. I'd worry 1/3 as much about getting shot.
I don't worry at all about dying in my car.
Really? You don't take reasonable steps to decrease the likelihood of you having a serious car accident owing in part to an awareness of the consequences of such an accident? Are you sure?
