The difference being acknowledgement of problems in ones own country first.
I don't see the connection. The two things aren't exclusive. The USA has worse social problems than the UK does, that's pretty clear.
the shooter worked in IT- maybe thats where the problem lies....
Really? You don't take reasonable steps to decrease the likelihood of you having a serious car accident owing in part to an awareness of the consequences of such an accident? Are you sure?
I drive a huge 4x4 if that's what you mean?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States
Although I confess to being not that interested; it seems that America as a society is content to accept the consequences. They can't even sort out a health care system, so gun control is way beyond them.
I drive a huge 4x4 if that's what you mean?
I think he means stuff like looking before pulling out of junctions, not overtaking into oncoming traffic etc.
Oh and driving a 4x4 isn't any safer than a well designed normal car, btw 🙂
STOP with the big hand, small map statistics for gun crime in the USA. It is a 'king big place with more diversity than most Europeans appreciate.
Look at the urban / rural aspect and yes, the race aspect. This might educate a few people:
[url= http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-03-23/national/37959221_1_guns-and-suicide-gun-deaths-gun-control ]guns-and-suicide-gun-deaths-gun-control[/url]
Firearm homicide is the leading cause of death for African Americans ages 1-44.
African Americans make up nearly 13% of the U.S. population, but in 2009 suffered almost 24% of all firearm deaths – and over 54% of all firearm homicides.
Number of Deaths Due to Firearms per 100,000 Population by Race/Ethnicity
White Black Other
9.2 16.9 3.3
[i]in 2009 suffered almost 24% of all firearm deaths – and over 54% of all firearm homicides[/i]
So there's a lot of white people getting killed by guns where it's not homicide? Those stats make it look like over 50% of firearm deaths aren't homicide?
Stat wars ! How does that break down with income ? 20% of all children live in poverty cf 46% of black children
STOP with the big hand, small map statistics for gun crime in the USA. It is a 'king big place with more diversity than most Europeans appreciate.
I know. I've lived and travelled there.
[url= http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/national/gun-deaths/ ]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/national/gun-deaths/[/url]
This shows, by State and race, firearm deaths - homicide and suicide.
STOP with the big hand, small map statistics for gun crime in the USA. It is a 'king big place with more diversity than most Europeans appreciate.
Indeed, but many on here don't understand that. The USA is 40 times the size of the UK with a massive diverse population spread from the Arctic down to the Gulf of Mexico.
I think he means stuff like looking before pulling out of junctions, not overtaking into oncoming traffic etc.
I see, so he's suggesting, if I was allowed, to carry a handgun. Just in case.
Indeed, but many on here don't understand that. The USA is 40 times the size of the UK with a massive diverse population spread from the Arctic down to the Gulf of Mexico.
So no one in Europe can comment on anything in the US because "it's a big place"? That seems like an odd viewpoint.
So no one in Europe can comment on anything in the US because "it's a big place"? That seems like an odd viewpoint
That's not what was stated, no where did it say no one in Europe can comment, it's just that there are a lot of toothless goons who don't take into consideration the vast diversity within the US.
The real issue that should be debated is the lack of investment / support for mental health issues within the US. This is really where a lot of the issues arise and many people fall between the gaps in society due to lack of funding of mental health issues on free government healthcare schemes and of being on low income to be able to afford private health cover.
So no one in Europe can comment on anything in the US because "it's a big place"?
I didn't say that. Few Europeans really appreciate how big the USA is. When I say big, at times it is almost too big to get your head around on the scale of a single country. I would guess that Russia and China are similar in that respect but I haven't travelled there. It isn't until you travel around in the USA (and drive rather than just fly) that things really start to click with regards size and diversity - and indeed how the size drives many aspects we Europeans see as 'different'.
America is huge, just vast, I visited 6 states in 2 weeks last year (all of New England) albeit briefly, and we were hardly off the road to do that, the mileages were massive. And that is just one tiny corner of the USA, a tiny, tiny percentage.
I think the place is just so big and so diverse that it really is unmanageable, it's easy to see why these mentally ill people fall off the radar, and why 'the state' can't keep tabs on everyone.
Their gun laws are questionable, obviously, but as for everything else, it just seems nigh on impossible.
So, let me get this straight - is the US quite large? I'd never realised.
Obviously.
It took me 4 days to get across on the train!
that's more to do with the trains being rubbish than anything else.
Obviously.
Funny cos when I was travelling across America on buses it was over in a flash - seemed so tiny, like San Marino or something.
that's more to do with the trains being rubbish than anything else.
They were a bit trundly, but a nice way to see lots of the country, even though going to sleep looking at fields and waking up looking at fields was a good introduction to the above mentioned idea that it is actually very bloody big.
Still got a problem with guns though. 9 children under the age of 5 were shot in New York while I was there; through the front door...
The real issue that should be debated is the lack of investment / support for mental health issues within the US.
That's a symptom of a much more fundamental issue. The US is founded on the principle of small government. That means that they are supposed to do the absolute minimum in all areas and let the pepole sort themselves out.
So when people aren't capable or equipped to sort themselves out, that's when problems occur.
Still got a problem with guns though. 9 children under the age of 5 were shot in New York while I was there; through the front door...
But if the perpetrator hadn't had access to guns they would have just waved a knife through the letterbox... or something.
The real issue that should be debated is the lack of investment / support for mental health issues within the US. This is really where a lot of the issues arise and many people fall between the gaps in society due to lack of funding of mental health issues on free government healthcare schemes and of being on low income to be able to afford private health cover.
You may have a point - but you do realise that most issues aren't as simple as that don't you? Amazingly enough, events can have more than one contributory factor, and sometimes it's ok to talk about just one of them.
It takes a special brand of logic to suggest that America doesn't have a problem with violence and in particular gun violence. Whether that problem is largely related to certain areas is a completely different issue.
Also, America might be vast geographically compared to the UK but the population is only 5 times greater.
You may have a point - but you do realise that most issues aren't as simple as that don't you? Amazingly enough, events can have more than one contributory factor, and sometimes it's ok to talk about just one of them.
Events can have more than one contributory factor, but usually there is a fundamental initatiator which in a lot of cases is mental health issues. Tackle the root cause and the impacts go away.
Also, America might be vast geographically compared to the UK but the population is only 5 times greater.
's why they need guns; they're farther apart...
Events can have more than one contributory factor, but usually there is a fundamental initatiator which in a lot of cases is mental health issues. Tackle the root cause and the impacts go away.
OK, but you could try and tackle the mental health issues [i]and[/i] America's weird infatuation with guns. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
's why they need guns; they're farther apart...
We use knives in the UK because we don't have as far to reach to get someone? 😈
Also, America might be vast geographically compared to the UK but the population is only 5 times greater.
I bet they have a higher urban population density though. Lots of empty spaces are pretty irrelevant when there's nobody in them.
...which in a lot of cases is mental health issues. Tackle the root cause and the impacts go away.
Is it? For the spree type killings the like of which we have seen in Washington I'd tend to agree however the bulk of the gun deaths aren't the result of situations like this.
Agreed. For the mass killings, predominantly it is mental health disorders, for other gun killings, well its predominantly gang related issues, followed by self protection and others etc. The main difference between the US and the UK (if you really do want to compare the two) is that Gang related violence is gun compared to knife. There is some gun related crime, but with guns not as available they settle for the next best thing. End product / intent is the same though. Death.
Aren't the majority business disputes which can't be settled through legal channels? Easily fixed by bringing prohibition to an end.
So, as far as I can glean from some reading up on this, it's not about the 'automatic-ness' of the guns that count, as [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States ]most people killed in the US by guns are killed by handguns[/url].
And it is true that the US is way behind the South American countries when it comes to gun deaths. However, when you compare the rate of gun deaths per capita against 'developed' countries, [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20759139 ]the US is off the scale[/url]. This suggests that the US is 'underdeveloped' in its approach to gun control.
There certainly seems to be an attitude that guns are the answer to everything, including gun crime. Quite how that reverse logic became so seemingly widespread is beyond me, but then the [url= http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/29/world/obamas-leadership-in-war-on-al-qaeda.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 ]idea of violence as a solution to problems seems to be quite popular too[/url], given the history of US foreign policy.
the idea of violence as a solution to problems seems to be quite popular
This is something I've noticed in everyday society too - you can see it in lots of movies too. Take Back to the Future as an example. Inoccuous light family movie, but the main point of the story is how McFly Sr becomes a successful man and sorts his life out - through violence. But it's ok, of course, because it's violence against the baddie....
Lots of movies do this, but there are still movies that resolve issues without violence. It's not obvious til you start looking, cos we're all so conditioned to the good guy punching out the bad guy.
Then there are all the facebook funny pictures where people post jokes about doing violence to people who annoy them. Ok sure, they aren't going to, but it's part of the language, part of the social landscape.
Q. How many NRA members does it take to change a lightbulb?
A. More guns.
I bet they have a higher urban population density though. Lots of empty spaces are pretty irrelevant when there's nobody in them.
82% live in city or urban areas.
Quite how that reverse logic became so seemingly widespread is beyond me
It isn't really widespread. It is more a very vocal and well-funded minority.
grum - MemberCould have sworn you've said you were American on previous threads.
LHS has indeed implied that. He's mentioned having "dual passports" and being unaffected by visas requirements for the United States.
[i] He's mentioned having "dual passports" and being unaffected by visas requirements for the United States. [/i]
Working for the NSA will do that for you 😉
Unless he's ET.
...or a Mexican?
Christ - have my own little stalkers!! Dual passports does not make one American. The assumption of my nationality is more than likely born from your own engrained prejudices.
The assumption of my nationality is more than likely born from your own engrained prejudices.
No, it's more likely to be in response to what you post on here. You know, making references to "a large family containing British, Americans and the odd Canadian thrown in for good mix". That sort of thing might lead people to arrive to perfectly reasonable conclusions, such as the one that grum came to.
Criticism of US political policies does not automatically signify "prejudice". Indeed the title of this thread sums it up nicely : [b]"I love Americans, but there is something seriously wrong over there..."[/b]
Your constant and longstanding accusations of prejudice against Americans on this forum reflects more paranoia on your part than reality imo.
There is imo [i]some[/i] prejudice towards the US and its citizens on this forum, but nowhere to the extent that you suggest. And criticism of US government policy does not automatically equate to criticism of the American people. Indeed the American people themselves are often the most critical of US government policies - and so they should be.
What he said.
I agree, overall on this forum the prejudice is no more than is gifted to other nations (french, Aussies etc). There are certain individuals however who's colours are worn very visibly on their sleeves. Anyway, whilst I appreciate your deep interest in my personal life, maybe we should move on from this.
Wow there are products out there for small-dicked rednecked-scared of shadows idiots shocker.
Get over it. The fact that their own President cant stop them shows how corrupt and impotent their leaders/system is.
A load of small children were murdered and the NRA said 'the good guys need more guns'.
America will one day be at civil war again. Maybe a 100yrs but it can't stay together once they cant afford to pay for invasions or regimes anymore abroad.
