[Closed] Huge corporations trying to be nice and kind to the communities they dominate?

The way I look at it they can either:

a) Be corporate arseholes

b) Be corporate arseholes who occasionally do nice things

Having b) is the lesser of 2 evils.

They could sell just as much without doing the good stuff.

is there some sort of government legislation that they must follow?

Can't say I've ever felt dominated by a supermarket

Another way to look at it is

a) Be corporate arseholes, and it's clear what they are doing.

b) Be corporate arseholes who occasionally do nice things, which are actually very trivial then massively over report it to make the gesture seem bigger than it really is so that next time xxx want to do something there are far few objection as jo blogs is sucked into the market bull shit.

Research shows that employees who 'fulfilled' through wholesome activities such as community involvement programmes are more productive, so this is the other motive that will have inspired ASDA to be so generous.

got a link Ian?

Shocking news - just because you work for a big company doesn't stop you being a nice person and doing good things.

@Kevevs

http://www.bitc.org.uk/document.rm?id=11888

for starters.

Also it's obviously a facet of employee engagement, so the benefits are a contributor to the benefits outlined here: http://ffbsccn.wordpress.com/2010/05/26/the-roi-of-employee-engagement/

Kevevs - can't you just run around town shouting, telling everyone how bad they are?

that'll learn 'em

cheers Ian, that's interesting.

Can't say I've ever felt dominated by a supermarket

I take it you're not a farmer or town centre retailer then.

Just corporate gimmick as they are feeling a bit "guilty" of dominating your life.

😈

They don't give a **** what you think. They can get get tax breaks for investment in charitable projects. They then add a warm and fuzzy vibe to their brand by marketing their tax breaks as community-spirited endeavours.

They pay millions to celebs for the human faces they bring to the presentation of these corporations.

Let's not kid ourselves that they're nice or kind.

It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop.

It's just business IMO.

Or you could look at it as charities getting something out of big business.

SKY have put a lot of cash and resource into the cycling team, and also the sky rides, around the country, but while i say well done, still want get sky on principle.

Then we have tesco giving stuff to schools , and Morisons doing likewise, all very public spirited.

But what really winds me up is the Royal Mail, who sometimes deliver mail, are supporting Barnados, with bits of sticker stuck on their vans, now what benefit do we as service users get from this, sod all, its not as if theyre giving Barnados kids jobs.

so cyclng teams and schools are ok but not kids charities? I despair.

Project - you won't have to be too upset about RM for much longer once they've rebranded as Deutsche Post (what's left anyway) and tripled the cost of posting letters.

Sky - thats purely advertising in another form

Tedsco - its a way of finding good publicity.

Tescos at al are a scourge on society. They cause serious harm to society in the chase for profits.

I choose not to shop at walmart or "the shop formerly owned by Dame Shirley Porter" because I don't like the way they conduct business.

cynic-al - Member
so cyclng teams and schools are ok but not kids charities? I despair.

Posted 5 minutes ago # Report-Post

We pay them to deliver mail and parcels not to subsidise some charity, for kids, they are not yet a private company, but a tax payer owned one.

I don't know all these big business creating hundreds of thousands of jobs wanting to make a profit. How dare they, they should all just pack up and go or do your own mini crusade and boycott them all 😉

I think it's quite reassuring that there's someone here that knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing.

Kuco

Having been on Holiday in the Netherlands recvently it was very interesting to see that the town centres were still vibrant places with independent shops. Why? No tescos. You cannot get planning permission to build a food store outside the town centre or over a certain size.

Teh main reason why our town centres are such dismal place with no variation in the shopping is the dominace of the huge supermarket chains - and they reduce emplacement as they kkill jobs in small independent shops

Some of the marketing and lobbying practices are appalling.

They act as a monopoly / cartel and also drive down eh cost of food to the point at which farming in the UKis no longer profitable while exporting profits themselves.

It wasn't the supermarkets that killed my local town centre it was the greedy bastards of the council who put rates up so high a lot just jacked in and moved out of town.

Kuco - rubbish.

Yea right thats why I know of two people directly that shut up shop in the town centre because of the rates. But what the f*ck do I know.

The governmnet set the buisness rates, the council only collect them.
Agrees with TJ for once,

Kuco - if the custom was there then shops would be viable. its that the customers are not there because of the huge food malls out of the town centre.

Absolutely terrible - these big chains coming along and giving people a choice of where to shop. It's a lack of customers which causes city centre shops to close. That'll be the customers that decided they wanted to shop at the big supermarket.

I do find this whole discussion terribly middle class.

Corporate has NO feelings for the customer until he/sheps buying from them, even then its likely to be contempt because he/she did'nt spend Enough! Lol but True...
and Who pays into the Charities??? yup, Us.

It's further neo-liberalisation of the economy. Not content with controlling workers while working, Asda appears to trying to control part of their workers' labour power while not at work.

It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop.

😕 You make it sound as if monopoly capitalism is a bad thing.

druidh - its only when you go to places where this has not happened that you see what we have lost. Netherlands made a policy of no supermarkets and the rexult is more choice as the independent shops have survived

Supermarkests end up with [i]less choice[/i] in a locality.

TJ - I say "let the consumer decide". I know that goes against your Socialist principles, but most of us don't have the time to be running around a selection of wee shops looking for the latest fancy health fad food.

Well i can walk down the poorly maintained pavement to the rubbish infested town, and look in second grade shops, avoiding the drunks and druggies, shoplifters and idiots,

or drive to the out of town shoping centre wher i have free parking, clean smooth pavements, security staff trained by the SAS,or they think so, non of the above social inadequetes, and large bright shops.Working clean toilets and no pervading smell of burnt chip fat or curry.

Strangely our glorious leaders have decided to knock half the town down and build a huge ASDA, with an undergroud car park on the site of the existing car park, so that means limited parking for the ones who actually drive to shop there.

TandemJeremy - Member

Having been on Holiday in the Netherlands recvently it was very interesting to see that the town centres were still vibrant places with independent shops. Why? No tescos. You cannot get planning permission to build a food store outside the town centre or over a certain size.

Teh main reason why our town centres are such dismal place with no variation in the shopping is the dominace of the huge supermarket chains - and they reduce emplacement as they kkill jobs in small independent shops

TJ - back to your nonsensical rambling top form there. Tesco hasn't killed the town centre. Many other things have - including rates, lack of investment, poor town planning etc. You cannot simplify something so complex into a single retailer. The Netherlands also has a far better infrastructure given much of it was re-built after 1945! They have less of the historical legacy (roads too small for trucks to deliver etc) than we do. AS usual, you oversimplify to make your own point against something you don't like.

[url= http://www.tescofarming.com/v2/tsdp.asp ]http://www.tescofarming.com/v2/tsdp.asp[/url]
[url= http://www.fwi.co.uk/Articles/2010/03/30/120577/Tesco-unveils-new-farmgate-milk-price.htm ]http://www.fwi.co.uk/Articles/2010/03/30/120577/Tesco-unveils-new-farmgate-milk-price.htm[/url]

Links seem pretty reasonable practice to me.

A bit of a conflict between the supermarket supporters here........druidh says town centre shopping is for [i]"terribly middle-class"[/i] shoppers, and project says that supermarket shopping is for posh people.

So which one is it then ?

Go to Shrewsbury, real good range of small shops, all the large chains are a way out of town, cheapish parking in shrewsbury, as well.

Then down the road we have chester, a real pit, the romans came there, and since then the council has done nothing to improve the place, seriously wheelchiar unfreindly due to steps and cobbled potholed pavements, lots of empty shops, even the night clubs are closed down, a huge brown site not going to be developed till 2014, and a large steel erection for flats that failed and got left to rust.

Oh and now it appears to be a training ground for British Gas to dig up every road, and leave yellow pipes everywhere.Strangely when they repair the road hole, they do a better job than the council do.

Strangely when they repair the road hole, they do a better job than the council do.

You know a council which repairs its own roads ? I thought it was a legal requirement that all such work went out to "competitive tendering" 😕

The council pays the bill for road repairs, our local council seem to employ people who are partially sighted and work part time, as they only fill half the hole.

The council pays the bill for road repairs

But the private sector does the work.

.

seem to employ people who are partially sighted and work part time, as they only fill half the hole.

Do you want the cheapest quote or not ? 😕

The Netherlands also has a far better infrastructure given much of it was re-built after 1945! They have less of the historical legacy (roads too small for trucks to deliver etc) than we do. AS usual, you oversimplify to make your own point against something you don't like.

this is simply wrong - most of the towns retain the medieval layout and streets and roads are very narrow.

for sure its a complex but the unfettered power of the supermarket has a lot to answer for

The result is LESS choice for the consumer. I have a choice of tesco, asda or Lidl - there are no virtually no independent food shops thus the small producer is also squeezed out. No cheese shops so I can only buy plastic wrapped mass produced cheese, no independent bakeries so no real bread is available. My local shopping area is poorer for the supermarkets. Choice is reduced

They act as a monoploly and a cartel. Independent producers and retailers are squeezed out otf the market often by aggressive campaigns. If there is a sucessful independent shop in an area where there is s supermarket the supermarket will loss leader rival goods to put them out of business.

druidh - Member

TJ - I say "let the consumer decide". I know that goes against your Socialist principles, but most of us don't have the time to be running around a selection of wee shops looking for the latest fancy health fad food.

If it was a free market that would be fine but the supermarkets use their monopoly power to distort the market - and a vibrant high stereet has other benefits especially for those who don't have the means to drive.

A I say - I was astonished how well the dutch model has worked. Every town no mater how smallhad thriving independent shops with a far greater variety of goods avialiable than here

I know of one council which set up its own 'arms length' organisation so it could road repairs and such. Have no others followed the same model?

Well, without supermarkets I'd have to spend all Saturday shopping instead of riding my bike, as it is I can do my shopping after work.

there are no virtually no independent food shops thus the small producer is also squeezed out. No cheese shops

Oh do be brief. Was Edinburgh awash with neighbourhood cheese shops before the incessant march of Tesco? No it wasn't! Speciality shops are just that - speciality. The decline of herring fishing in Scotland I can cope with - the unavailability of local cheese shops might not be such a rich historical study.

Just to add - if the masses didn't want supermarkets, they wouldn't be in business.

We live in a free market economy there will always be big companies I would rather be the boss of Evans than a sh1t lbs that makes no money

Thank you TJ for making my case much more eloquently than I could ever hoped to. When I was a lad in Edinburgh, cheese came in one big block. It was orange. The chap behind the wee counter cut it off with a knife - the same one he'd just used for chopping up the chicken. Veg was potato. If you were very lucky, you might see a bit of turnip, carrot or cauliflower. Coffee was drunk by snobs and only came in a jar marked Nescafé. Milk was thick and creamy and would clog your arteries as soon as you looked at it.

You are living in a fantasy world if you think that supermarkets have restricted choice for the majority. The only folk wringing their hands about it are those that can't quite find the right breed of FairTrade mung beans.

I know of one council which set up its own 'arms length' organisation so it could road repairs and such.

Actually LAs can still do the work in house, if the work has gone out to tender and has been won competitively. This doesn't happen very often for obvious reasons......."model employer" Vs money-grabbing corner-cutting outfit. And of course the whole process tends to drive standards down.

The result is LESS choice for the consumer. I have a choice of tesco, asda or Lidl - there are no virtually no independent food shops thus the small producer is also squeezed out. No cheese shops so I can only buy plastic wrapped mass produced cheese, no independent bakeries so no real bread is available. My local shopping area is poorer for the supermarkets. Choice is reduced

[url= http://www.mellischeese.co.uk/MellisHome.asp ]Mellis Cheese shop[/url] has six stores in Edinbugh
[url= http://www.valvonacrolla.co.uk/ ]Valvona Crolla[/url] offer online stuff plus have a store on Leith Walk.

Plus there are plenty of delicatessens.

Druidh - well thats against the experience of the many. The best food shopping I have seen is whre there are no supermarkets.

Many folk agree that supermarkets = less choice. I don't know why you have to be so disparaging with your comments about health food or mung beans. Its about wanting the choice not to have plastic wrapped tasteless everything.

Look at all the local campaigns against tesco - the portobello one suceeded

If you want to have the choice only to buy tasteless plastic wrapped food from a retailer who uses their monopoly position to deliberately squeeze out the independents retailers and small producers then thats your choice. I would rather have diversity and choice and independent retailers - and fruit and veg and cheese that tastes of something

http://www.tescopoly.org/

CaptJon
Mellis Cheese shop has six stores in Edinbugh
Valvona Crolla offer online stuff plus have a store on Leith Walk.

Plus there are plenty of delicatessens.

TJ

Thanks Jon, i'll check those out and support local independent producers and retailers

No problem.

How long have you lived in Edinburgh TJ? I can't believe you've never visited smellie mellies for your designer milk curd fix.

I'm not having a go at health foods, I'm merely using those examples to illustrate the fact that, [i]for the vast majority[/i] of consumers, supermarkets have actually [i]increased[/i] the choice of food available. I mean, I can now go into the Co-op in Stornoway and buy kumquats. WTF is that all about?

Hmmm, why might town centres be dying?

[img] [/img]

Take a trip to France - town centre shops open till seven, shops shut and bars/restaurants open as th shops close.

Offices/factories etc close at five - theres actually a reason to go into town after work, do a bit of shopping and then grab dinner and a drink dinner before going home.

Go into a British town centre after work, its closed!

society has changed, women increasingly go out to work, the opening hours have to change to meet the market - if they don't then the customers go somewhere that [b]does[/b] suit their lifestyles.

No half day closing on a Wednesday?

Druidh - 20 years. I know mellis well.

In that time I have watched the independents going form the high street leeaving me with less choice. Soon the last greengrover will have gone meaning I cannot buy ripe fruit with flavour anywhere locally

I agree with you that when the supermarkets were first arriving they did increase choice - but now they are acting as a monopoly and decreasing choice it thru their huge market presence. Try to buy a tomato with flavour. Try to buy a ripe piece of fruit - not possible now.

Independent food producers cannot get into teh marketplace at all - they don't produce enough in consistent amounts to get intot he supermarkets and there are no independents left for them to sell thru

Try to buy a tomato with flavour

Hydroponics do that - not supermarkets. The need for more intensive farming means agriculture changed too. Your pseudo middle class angst is clouding your argument. You are harking back to a time that didn't exist.

Come to Gloucester Road in Bristol - the dream shopping street. Almost all indie shops. Still there if people want them.

To a point i concur with Teejatron. As a an independent retailer me self i welcome the larger stores in an area. They actually assist and encourage the specialist small shop. The bigger boys struggle to offer what the wee man does and as a consequence actually help in creating a niche for them to exist in.

Tesco will have no interest in selling ripe fruit TJ as you suggest - it will not be possible in their business model. The person who sees this as an opportunity will create a small outlet for this and hopefully make enough money to provide him/herself with a living and employment for others.

It stifles choice for sure inside the actual supermarket/large shop but help provide a gap for other products to exist elsewhere outwith this. make sense? We simply don't need 50 independent cheese shops for example, their aint enough people needing that much smelly cheese 😀

We know a large multiple are opening a new store in Edinburgh for instance (in our industry) and it truly excites me. It let's us thrive as a specialist retailer and sets us apart from them - we will be better off for it.

With regard to the original point - companies are essentially collections of people. I would like to think those people at the top of the board are still 'people' and have a sense of social responsibility and justice - it can be hard to reconcile the motives of profit and charity but there is a balance point you can reach. Perhaps it is marketing... who really cares? They are doing good and you know what, you don't have to buy anything from them if you don't want to.

Anyway, i have some poncy tea from a small aproned man run poncy tea shop to drink, I think i might put one on for druidh as well... heh

Tootall - rubbish - Its because of the way the supermarkets work that the fruit and veg is underripe and tasteless. the time from producer to purchase is longer hence they pick it underripe and refrigerate it. Independent greengrocers sell better flavoured fruit and veg.

I am not harking back to an ideal time that never existed. Its arguing about where we should be now.

TBC

If a big chain opens up next to you. Sees what you sell well. Gets the same products in and sells them as a lossleader ( as it can afford to do) how long until you go broke? Then once you have closed they then rack up the prices again.

Thats the supermarket model

Gets the same products in and sells them as a lossleader ( as it can afford to do) how long until you go broke

we is dealing with a super small market of chainrings, lubes, etc not key food staples like pasta, eggs and milk.
There is not the volume in the industry to permit this.

Plus, they ain't near us. MUCH nearer some other large retailers selling the same stuff.

Chat to you on Wed about it.

I was meaning hypothetically - thats what the supermarkets do to local retailers

My local high street is much busier since Sainsbury's moved there. We even have an indie butcher now to go with the indie tea/coffee shops (which do more business than the chains) and deli. During the summer some guy started selling fruit and veg across the road from Sainsbury's and did a roaring passing trade. In fact the high street is so busy again the Co-op have moved in.

I completely agree with TJ. This dominance by supermarkets is not good. Now purchase my meat from an independant organic farm/retailer (Laverstoke Park in Hampshire). Costs a lot more so eat less meat but it is so much nicer.

Long-term, we are shooting ourselves in the foot.

Its because of the way the supermarkets work that the fruit and veg is underripe and tasteless. the time from producer to purchase is longer hence they pick it underripe and refrigerate it. Independent greengrocers sell better flavoured fruit and veg.

No - you are wrong. The public no longer wants regional, seasonal food. The public wants all foods all of the time, so it moves further. However, it moves very quickly. If both shops are selling out of season green beans, they are coming from the same place. If both shops are selling tomatoes grown in the Canary Islands, they are probably both selling hydroponically grown tomatoes - the most common and efficient way of growing them. You might have an argument if you are talking regional, seasonal food. However, intensive agriculture and consumer demand are more to blame than big shop, little shop. Look at how those hothouse fruit and veg are grown before you talk about taste.

Too tall - sorry - that is simply wrong. The supply chains are not the same. The fruit and veg are not the same. The supermarkets insist on uniformity and long shelf life hence the under ripe tasteless fruit and veg

Where do you think they get out of season veg? It isn't local. Where do they get tomatoes from in December? The Netherlands under glass or the Canary Islands under shade.

We can talk about supply chains all night. If you want to. I do it for a living. If you want to pay premium for premium, you can. However, you need to understand where your food comes from and how it is grown.

And what do the Netherlands do to their fruit and veg?

So TJ - you're saying that there is a niche market out there of customers who want for tasty, ripe vegetables and fruit and are willing to pay for it.

C_G has pointed out that she buys from a small independent at higher price for exactly this reason.

So, basically you're killing your own argument, since if the supermarkets are not catering for this sector of the market, the opportunity is there for small independents to fulfil it and thrive, the only ones that will close are the ones who try and compete with the supermarket for the same custom.

No different from the "internet retailers killing the IBD" arguments that we've heard here a million times before!

cinnamon_girl - Member
And what do the Netherlands do to their fruit and veg?

Turn them orange.

totall - I do understand it.

Supermarkets demand long shelf life and ease of handling - so all the fruit and veg is under ripe. Independents with different supply chain and shorter times from producer to market don't so the fruit is ripe and nice to eat

Zulu -what a surprise you fail to see. Its not about niche premium. Its about diversity of retailers allowing flexibility and choice.

What we really need to do is to kickstart our tastebuds. Say no to irradiated food. Treat animals with respect. Eat seasonally.

Independents with different supply chain and shorter times from producer to market don't so the fruit is ripe and nice to eat

Tell me more. I'm interested to hear about this. Can you give me an example?

Farmers markets are the way to go. Local produce only. Who wants food that has been sitting in chilled warehouses for 6 months?

Local produce only? No fruit if you live in the Outer Hebrides then. You actually want to [i]restrict[/i] choice?

druid - I have tasted some delicious locally grown fruit whilst visiting the West Coast of Scotland. Surely it is easier to transport that to the Hebrides rather than it being transported possibly to England for warehouse storage then eventually to whatever supermarket it is destined?

In fact, for decades I visited Scotland on a regular basis and enjoyed some good quality tasty red meat as well as locally caught fish.

I am not arguing that the supermarkets have no place - I am arguing that there overdominence of the market reduces diversity and that the out of town centres suck life out of towns

At the risk of repeating myself it was very noticable in the netherlands that the town centres were thriving compared to here with independent shops - why - in main because the supermarkets have been restricted - no out of town shopping and no huge megastores.

Tootall ( thought you were military anyway?)- the tomatoes in my local greengrocers are a good example. they may come from the same growers but I doubt it. Same growing areas for sure but I thought the growers grew for specific markets? However they are packed in a box at the growers, shipped in the same box to the fruit and veg market, sold to the retailer who displays them and sells them in the same box. They are ripe and flavourful

because they are not handled so much once picked they don't have to be picked underripe to accept repackaging. Because the supply chain is quicker they are not picked underripe to last longer. thus they have flavour which you cannot get in a supermarket tomato. Its not a premium product as such and the price is comparable with the supermarket ones.

Cinnamon girl - Druidh is right there. Local produce on the isalnds would be very restricted diet. Mutton, fish and root veg - with oats and dairy