[Closed] homophobia alive and well on the streets

Edukator - your're clearly considerate, have good manners and are sensitive to cultural differences. However, you should'nt have to appease criminals - I suspect that you don't. Neither should emsz or anyone else who abides by the law.

Badly labouring a point is my speciality.

[i]He that fights and runs away, may turn and fight another day; but he that is in battle slain, will never rise to fight again.[/i]

So I'll run away now. Night all.

I hate putting my T-shirt back on when I get back to the town centre when I'm out running and it's 35°C+. I don't like givng way to cars when I have right of way. I feel like driving the point of my ski stick into the calf of the guy that's jumped the lift queue. But I put my T-shirt on, give way to the road hogs and try to feel sorry for the skier that is still in a 9 to 5, dog-eat-dog frame of mind on holiday

But they're all reacting to an incident when it occurs. Do you wear a T-shirt when running in the countryside, never go cycling on the roads and avoid ski lifts because somebody might take offence/not give you right of way/jump the queue? That's the equivalent of telling emsz not to hold hands with Sara in public. When the incident occurred they reacted in the correct way and got out of dodge (doubtless the yobs were hoping for a reaction).

Is the right to hold hands down Cowly road worth fighting for, Mrs Toast? Hardly in the Rosa Parks or MLK league is it. MLK and RP were fighting against instututionalised racism. emsz is fighting a few ignorant blokes flaunting the law. IMO they aren't worth her time or effort, she'd be best to ignore them and behave in a way that means they'll ignore her.

I don't think you can fight institutionalised discrimination without tackling it at the ground level. We (and the US) have laws against racism, but that hasn't stopped racism - just look at the recent shenanigans in premiership football, or the scaremongering about Barack Obama because he had a foreign sounding middle name. We have laws against homophobic discrimination, but we still can't call gay marriages 'marriages'. Despite that, two people in a relationship should be able to walk down the road holding hands. That's not going on a crusade or making a stand, that's acting like a couple. Anyone who thinks that's risky behaviour that should be amended rather than being reported to the police....

Edukator - your're clearly considerate, have good manners and are sensitive to cultural differences.

I reckon Edukator's very first post might suggest otherwise.

Edukator - Member

Are you sure it was gob?

Edit to add smiley

Posted 1 hour ago

Care to contribute to the debate Yunki or are you only here to insult me as usual?

By your own logic, if you don't want to be insulted, you only have to keep your opinions to yourself. Is it really worth fighting for?

but that fight is for later, once safe,

Bollocks. She was holding hands with her partner, not walking through Bradford with a placard reading "****s go home." If that's what constitutes a "fight" these days, gods help us.

Edukator I'm actually with you here too.
I am surprised this took place in Oxford which you would expect being a university town would be very liberal in their attitudes.
Nobody in this thread including Edukator condones the act that took place here. Its completely illegal, indecent, intolerant and immoral.
By the sounds of things nobody in this thread would commit the act that has taken place.
However if you choose to fight a crusade against the majority then you've got to be prepared for some kind of resistance.
There are lots of behaviours in society that are completely legal but if performed in the wrong context will certainly incite an innappropriate reaction.
I hope the law enforcements will find and punish the perpetuators.

For the record many of my very close friends are gay.

Bollocks. She was holding hands with her partner, not walking through Bradford with a placard reading "****s go home." If that's what constitutes a "fight" these days, gods help us.

Brilliant 8)

It is a shame that we can't actually debate things around here without it turning into abuse.

Very sad to hear that's happened to you both, hate crimes will never go away though, you did the right thing phoning the police, no matter what is debated on here the best we can do is try to educate younger the generations the best we can.

Care to contribute to the debate Yunki or are you only here to insult me as usual?

There's not much of a debate, Edukator, just you being the contrarian as usual.

I get the point about trying to avoid issues in the first place, but in 21st century Britain, acceptance of homosexuality [i]is[/i] the norm. Given the fact that the police clearly took a keen interest once alerted, I'd suggest that they side with Emsz on this i.e. she and her partner shouldn't have to change their behaviour.

As others have suggested, the fact that you seem to attract abuse whilst riding a bike implies that rather than carrying out 'a crusade' against it, you should diffuse the situation by not riding your bike. Apparently this will help the issue 🙄

I'm disappointed to hear this. Contrary to some hignorants on this thread, Oxford is mainly a tolerant and progressive city. It is not a shithole. There are some less than pleasant parts and the Cowley road leads to a couple of them. I'm guessing the prats that you encountered were on their way back to Rose Hill or the Leys. And yes, if you haven't reported it yet you should.

I'm very proud of Oxford, please don't let the actions of a couple of arsehats colour your opinion of the whole city. They were probably from Swindon anyway 😉

If you ride a bike for 10 000km a year you'll come across a few nutty motorists, Zokes. Being "bikewise" and living somewhere there are less Clarkson clones menas I suffer less. Far from being on a campaign this "bikewise" includes no longer getting wound up when they are aggressive or resfuse priority. I gave up chasing motorists the day one ran a red light to get get away and very nearly caused a pile up. It's a process of adapting to your environment.

I'm encouraging emsz to be [b]streetwise[/b]. I lived in Sitges and worked on the Ramblas in Barcelona for a year. On the sound advice of colleages We wore no signs of wealth and Madame used a tatty rucksac or supermarket bag. We avoided the backstreets after 8:00 and were never robbed. Madame's colleage went to Barcelona for a week. She's one half of a franco-american couple. They were robbed twice in three days (on the second occasion the husband did get his wallet back) and cut short their holiday. I'll leave you to guess how they dressed, where they went and where they were carrying their valuables.

However if you choose to fight a crusade against the majority then you've got to be prepared for some kind of resistance.

So holding hands is a crusade? Really?

There are lots of behaviours in society that are completely legal but if performed in the wrong context will certainly incite an innappropriate reaction.

Wrong context? Did you read her post?

As someone pointed out, theres inappropriate and inappropriate. I don't know a single person who is homophobic so my belief is the majority of people at the very least don't care what other people do. Of course, I may just choose not to associate with homophobes or those who either condone their behaviour or think that it's somehow justified as a social norm we should respect or honour.

emsz - sorry you went through that, hopefully you can see those blokes are not representative of the majority of the people in your country.

I'm encouraging emsz to be streetwise. I lived in Sitges and worked on the Ramblas in Barcelona for a year. On the sound advice of colleages We wore no signs of wealth and Madame used a tatty rucksac or supermarket bag. We avoided the backstreets after 8:00 and were never robbed. Madame's colleage went to Barcelona for a week. She's one half of a franco-american couple. They were robbed twice in three days (on the second occasion the husband did get his wallet back) and cut short their holiday. I'll leave you to guess how they dressed, where they went and where they were carrying their valuables.

So to cut a long story short, petty theft and mugging is 'the accepted norm' in parts of Barcelona then, or at least the police are unable / unwilling to address this? Whereas in Oxford, being allowed to hold your partner's hand, no matter what sex you / they are is the norm, and as such, there shouldn't be an issue. When there is, it's unacceptable and gets reported.

Perhaps we could encourage you to be [b]forumwise[/b]?

I said "robbed" not "mugged". The police can't be everywhere and there's crime in every city in every country in the world. Some types of behaviour will encourage crime against you. Avoid them.

Edit to add: Would imforming you of the ethno type to be wary of in Barcelona be racist of me? It's the same as in most [url= http://www.parismatch.com/Actu-Match/Societe/Actu/Alerte-aux-pickpockets-336931/ ]French cities[/url]

Sorry to hear of this event Emsz, glad you both reported it and i hope you are both calmer this morning.

A few months ago my partner and i saw two young lads aged around 18 walking down the road past my house holding hands and chatting away happily. No grief and relaxed, and this is in Rochdale - not a forward looking town so there is hope.

Don't listen to the so-called 'edukator' you did nothing wrong in either the eyes of the law or modern British society.

I have a right not to be mugged in leafy middle class West Didsbury in Manchester, when wearing headphones late at night on seemingly empty streets. Incidently, I clobbered the lot of the scrotes who tried to nick my phone. Do I get a prize for being a hard man in real life, or do you just get one for being 'right on' on the Internet? Rosa Parks has nowt on me, the amateur. Edukator speaks sense and some of you lot need to get in the real world. You're good bullies though, I'll admit that.

My pseudo comes from the Hans Weingartner film [i]Die Fetten Jahre sind Vrobei[/i], released outside Germany as [i]the Edukators[/i]. The edukators being anti-capitalist campaigners. As an ex-capitalist and ex-teacher it seemed apt.

You're good bullies though, I'll admit that.

Well that doesn't appear to be the case .........Edukator won't shut up.

I'm going to try harder so that he modifies his behaviour to the point where it suits me and I'm satisfied with it.

Edukator speaks no sense at all. Its the classic blame the victim stance he espouses and it stinks.

Do I get a prize for being a hard man in real life

No, your prize is for being lucky. None of them wanted it badly enough to stab or otherwise injure you.

It's horrible that we still have vestiges of intolerance in this country. It sickens me to hear about your experiences Emsz.

Just the other day I got into a confrontation with a group who were behaving in a similar way to a guy in the street who was 'spreading the word of God' (his words not mine). I guess he was just expressing himself in his own way, expressing how he felt, but a group of teenagers thought that this was unacceptable and started heckling him and poking fun. It started to get a bit nasty so I ended up stepping in (not sure how wise that was, it's years since I considered myself to be more than capable of handling a group, let alone one on one!)

Fortunately my size and confidence meant that they backed down. The proselytizer was a bit shaken up though!

Regardless of what the 2 ladies were up to a bunch of idiots spat at someone in the street.
How anyone can come on here and defend the idiots beggars belief.

Edukator speaks no sense at all. Its the classic blame the victim stance he espouses and it stinks.

defend the idiots

you must be reading a different thread to me zippykona...

Who has defended the idiots zippykona? I certainly haven't and despite reading all the posts so far haven't noticed anyone else defending the idiots.

The question here is what emsz can do to avoid such unpleasantness in the future. Some seem to think going to the police is the best course. I'm suggesting adapting to the world one lives in is a better strategy than relying on a police force that can't be everywhere all the time ([url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-12960343 ]and may be just as homophobic as the idiots)[/url].

I don't think Edukator was defending their actions.

It's a sad day when two people of the same sex in a relationship feel they should hide that fact when walking through any street in this country though.

No edukator - you are suggesting hiding away.

If they were being outrageous you might have a point but they were merely holding hands.

Your attitude stinks. You are blaming hem for the prejudice they encountered.

Is this where I should post "some of my best friends are gay", Poly? Futile, however I will remind people of the slating I got on here when I used the positive example of a gay paedophile friend that successfully reintegrated the local community after a jail term in a debate on "punish, or educate and reintegrate". People seemed shocked that I still considered the guy a friend after the events.

One person doesn't make the male species or a Cities inhabitants remember.

If I heard or saw the event I would have challenged him. As would many on STW.

I'm suggesting adapting to the world one lives in is a better strategy than relying on a police force that can't be everywhere all the time

I can see your argument Ed, but the huge problem with this approach is that society won't ever change as a result.

More pertinently, you run the significant risk of making the situation worse by giving justification to the underlying prejudice that stimulates it in the first place; by you being the one to change/adapt you're effectively sanctioning the prejudice, giving credence to it.

As for you, TJ. Like Yunki, you can find nothing better than insult and putting words in my mouth.

I have never said .[i] "You are blaming hem for the prejudice they encountered."[/i] The prejudice doesn't come from emsz, it comes from the society she lives in. It's not her fault, it's not my fault, it's there and I'm proposing one strategy to deal with it that she may or may not take on board.

LOL at those of you misinterpreting edukator's posts and saying he's blaming the OP....presumably he's upset you in the past?

Typical lame forum behaviour. Try reading his posts instead of joining the lynch mob.

I stopped at page two after reading most of edukator comment.
Now I am or once glad he's british, one less vote for Marine in May. However I am quite scared as well. As his forum name implies he's somehow in contact with people and probably young ones to teach them. And to think he's teaching them some of his narrow-minded ideas is frankly disturbing.

And as for

Drive on French plates in England if you really want to suffer aggressive driving

Oh I did read your posts and its the classic "blame the victim" I am not putting words in your mouth - Its what you said. According to you its up to the victims to modify their behaviour

Not only that you make an extremely offensive "Joke" as well.

Guys, please don't turn this into a massive argument. I don't want that. TJ, yes its shit that sometimes people go out of their way to intimidate, but I know what Edukator is trying to say, it's a fact of life that we have to be careful sometimes, we just forgot for a minute

I give up.

I shouldn't have even tried really, shouldhuv kn0wn better... 🙁

and here we go again, another multi page thread that descends into hair pulling and name calling......i'm off to mumsnet

Guys, please don't turn this into a massive argument.

What else did you expect?

Cynic al - You should be ashamed of yourself for praising Edukators offensive "Joke"

To say that emsz should have to modify her behaviour to avoid the bigots is blaming her for the bigots actions.

If you fail to understand that then you are a part of the problem not a part of the solution. Her behaviour was not outwith the bounds of decency and should not be condemned

"Guys, please don't turn this into a massive argument. I don't want that."

This should end the thread it has for me.

Cynic al - You should be ashamed of yourself for praising Edukators offensive "Joke"

Steady TeeJ. That action was more about the reaction it would provoke rather than expressing a preference for inappropriately timed funnies. Thing is, it didn't provoke much which was probably slightly disappointing.

TJ has spoken people.
Now please leave the thread in an orderly fashion. Women and children first. Leave your baggage behind. No running and please close all the doors as you go.

Now please leave the thread in an orderly fashion. Women and children first. Leave your baggage behind. No running and please close all the doors as you go.

Bollocks to that.

PANIC!!!!!