That is me working an extra year. 🙁
The government is pushing a head with proposals to bring theplanned rise in the state pension ageto 68 ahead by at least seven years, its official spending watchdog has claimed.
Millions of people will face an extra year in work under the plans, asthe Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) indicatesthat the “current policy” is to move the rise from 2044 to 2037.
It's only a matter of time till the state pension is means tested and removed from many of us anyway as I see it. There'll be a selfish 'don't be a burden on society' approach.
Plus the pension age will be moved to align with, or surpass life expectancy anyway.
That's if we even survive the Oil/Water wars, mass migration away from the equator, increased temperatures and overall climatic chaos.
Honestly, a years change in pension age is the least of things I think we need to worry about, but I'm a pessimistic realist at the best of times.
And, no, I am no fun at parties.
I'm all right then.
Other than I will still be working because my meagre personal pension won't be enough anyway.
Saying that, my dad died at 69, my mum at 70, so I will probably only need a couple of years worth anyway, so I'm good.
I realised far too late that my workplace pension was nowhere near good enough. So I've been topping up a SIPP with every last penny I have to try and catch up.
I'm therefore fully expecting the state pension to become means tested and stop paying out at the exact amount I end up with, making my extra contributions a complete waste of time.
Iirc, when the male state pension was originally set at 65, the average male life expectancy was 68. Don't tell the government.
Recent BBC(?) report indicated life expactancy had stabilised post covid but "healthy life" age was falling, with a third of 65 year olds having some sort of serious/long term condition.
No idea how we balance pension/NHS/social care against those sort of stats, short of a cull of over 75s.
It is means tested already. Got a meagre private pension? State pension goes in tax then. I don't expect to ever see it, and my private pot isn't exciting by any means.
when the male state pension was originally set at 65, the average male life expectancy was 68. Don't tell the government.
This is the nub of the problem - people are living far, far longer than was envisaged when the pensions first came into being. It's not that unreasonable that some could be paid a pension for a period that is over half that of the period they were working. That is nothing but unsustainable (and never mind the NHS and social care costs of an aging population)
Iirc, when the male state pension was originally set at 65, the average male life expectancy was 68. Don't tell the government.
Recent BBC(?) report indicated life expactancy had stabilised post covid but "healthy life" age was falling, with a third of 65 year olds having some sort of serious/long term condition.
No idea how we balance pension/NHS/social care against those sort of stats, short of a cull of over 75s.
Intersting graphs on here. https://www.populationpyramid.net/united-kingdom/1950/ You can click the "+5" next to the year to see how it changes. The growth period the baby boomers experienced was very unsual. Populaton 'pryamids' all over the world seem to be tending towards a slightly top heavy vertical column as people stop having kids.
In Japan I think taking out long term care insurance is compulsory over age 40
Same as multi21. Currently expecting to get it in 2041 so prime for getting stuffed by the extra year. Also trying to play catch up with the work place pension so pretty sure it will become means tested and I'll be a fiver over the limit.
Wonder what's the biggest drain? People living longer drawing more pension or people living longer in worse condition and costing the NHS.
I'm more interested in my ultimate decline being steeper than leaving for a long time. Of course that might change once I get nearer to it.
**** my life. The MOD have just increased my reserve liability age to 65, now these ****ers are pushing up state pension age.
Is the hope people die before they can chill out a little? Save a few quid in pension payouts?
It's weird because my perception of this is:
"Oh shit the current generation of pensioners is costing us too much money and is unsustainable.... So let's **** things up by taking EVEN more from the next generation". Never any thought of reducing the cushy benefits that the current ones get, just reducing what people after then will get again.
Obviously that's not quite true as the people this will impact are currently 48 years old and upwards so not exactly the younger generation, but neither are they the gilded generation.
Is the hope people die before they can chill out a little? Save a few quid in pension payouts?
Yes.
It is means tested already.
It's not really. Pension is just counted as a taxable income. Tax threshold is just about the current state pension so obvs you don't pay any at that point but if you are lucky enough to have a large private pension in addition to your state pension you are going to be paying a good bit of tax on that. If as a pensioner you fall into the high rate tax payer bracket, no one is going to be giving you a lot of sympathy.
For those of us with defined benefit employer pensions linked to your state retirement age that goes up too....and therefore so does the penalty if you take it at say 62 or 63.
I appreciate we collectively live longer than we did when pensions first were introduced but I'm not convinced my powers are not diminishing just as fast. At 54 I can already tell I'm not the employee I was at say 34. I've got experience and the maybe the ability to work smarter not harder that comes with it but I'm concerned that by my late 60s I'll be a liability in education. There are not enough non coal face 'management' jobs for all the old timers and there is no good reason we should snaffle them all up anyway. B&Q here I come I fear.
Mind you, compared to the shit show it is to be in your 20s or 30s and afford a house for a young family it's very much a first world problem.
I'm actually planning on working till I'm 70 anyway, so long as the co I work for don't go bust & they don't give me anymore stressful projects like the one that just got cancelled, but then the 68yrs wouldn't affect me as I'm only 5yrs off state retirement age anyway.
+1 to convert, we're mostly a lucky ****ing bunch in the scheme of things
when the male state pension was originally set at 65, the average male life expectancy was 68. Don't tell the government.
This is the nub of the problem - people are living far, far longer than was envisaged when the pensions first came into being. It's not that unreasonable that some could be paid a pension for a period that is over half that of the period they were working. That is nothing but unsustainable (and never mind the NHS and social care costs of an aging population)
Statistically not personally,it’s unfortunately still a YMMV whether you make your retirement 🙁
I’ve got 30 odd years to go yet, I’m doubtful a state pension will even exist by then.
**** my life. The MOD have just increased my reserve liability age to 65, now these ****ers are pushing up state pension age.
Is the hope people die before they can chill out a little? Save a few quid in pension payouts?
TBH they’ll have you in a gaming chair controlling a squad of automated killbots if you do get dragged back.
But yep,the people with a rather nice pension want to up the age to save a few quid.
Oh well....
As it stands I'm getting nothing from the UK nor from Germany with regards to state pensions.
I did think about back paying my NI, but figured I'd I put that money into my investments* I'll see more of a return sooner.
The boomers really are the golden generation.
*I've just had a look and now wish I hadn't..... If things continue on that trajectory then I'll be looking to go back to work sooner than I want....!
Is the hope people die before they can chill out a little? Save a few quid in pension payouts?
That's always been the case, surely ....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Finance_Balance_of_Smoking_in_the_Czech_Republic?wprov=sfla1
**** my life. The MOD have just increased my reserve liability age to 65, now these ****ers are pushing up state pension age.
Is the hope people die before they can chill out a little? Save a few quid in pension payouts?
TBH they’ll have you in a gaming chair controlling a squad of automated killbots if you do get dragged back.
But yep,the people with a rather nice pension want to up the age to save a few quid.
I keep myself in shape, but the legacy of abuse I subjected my body to is making itself known!
If they have mobility scooter battalions where we're plugged in like Davros, running IVs to keep us function then cool.
But the realty is the Russian led axis forces will see this on their thermal:
All to save a few quid. Absolute weapons.
Here we go again - baby boomers (of which I am one) have had it so easy (rolls eyes).
A relative by marriage has a father who has been retired longer than the years he worked, he also retired with a final salary pension. I am about as far away as his generation as one can be.
I really do not feel in any way guilty of taking a state pension, my father died at the age of 66 and I've been working 50 years (yes you read that correctly), at one point having 2 jobs.
I get that the steady erosion of state pension is an easy hit for governments - nibbling away at the age you can access a pension (even a private pension) and presumably at some point reducing the amount each person gets when they tackle the triple lock.
At the same time, these conversations always bring out the statements that "it will all be gone / I won't get one in xx years", and I'm interested in whether that is just hyperbole?
In the UK we pay National Insurance and need qualifying years etc for a pension. As I understand it, the pension doesn't just come as a benefit out of general taxation? Given that there is a very clear record of contributions and entitlement, wouldn't simply refusing to provide a state pension to someone be extremely legally problematic, compared to stopping other benefits?
Noting the WASPI cases etc, clearly the government can get away with a fair few moving-the-goalpost interventions, but I'm not sure that's the same thing as refusing to honour NI contributions entirely, which does seem a big step further into doom-mongering?
By the time I retired, I was already past 65, and the only reason then was because the company went tits-up! I’d still be working now, otherwise. I really loved my job, and the people I worked with.
baby boomers (of which I am one) have had it so easy (rolls eyes).
There's winners and losers in every aspect of life.
My mum worked till 64. She spent the last two years of her life in and out of hospital with leukemia. She died aged 68.
It sucks
But on the whole that generation had it pretty damn good.
As I understand it, the pension doesn't just come as a benefit out of general taxation
It's absolutely just paid out of general taxation, National Insurance is just tax. No one is 'paying into a pot' that's accumulating for their retirement
Here we go again - baby boomers (of which I am one) have had it so easy (rolls eyes).
If you can look at it objectively, ignore your own personal circumstances or draw on just personal anecdotal evidence; it really is very clear that as a cohort the dice landed well.
As I understand it, the pension doesn't just come as a benefit out of general taxation
It's absolutely just paid out of general taxation, National Insurance is just tax. No one is 'paying into a pot' that's accumulating for their retirement
Well yep, not a "pot" like a private pension, but the Gov do seem reasonably clear on what NI is for https://www.gov.uk/national-insurance
I suppose my point is that it's more likely to be amended, but full removal of entitlement would be harder to justify - just because of the particular way this specific arrangement has been worded and set up for decades. Im not arguing it is ring-fenced money.
Yes, it's very unlikely that the basic state pension will no longer be a thing, but the age at which you'll get it and the years you'll need to work to qualify for it will continue to go up.
Is the hope people die before they can chill out a little? Save a few quid in pension payouts?
That's always been the case, surely ....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Finance_Balance_of_Smoking_in_the_Czech_Republic?wprov=sfla1
Not just the Czech Republic. Smokers die early saving a fortune in pension payments etc.
"In the absence of smoking, the government would spend an extra £9.8 billion annually in pension, healthcare and other benefit payments (less taxes forgone). Duty paid on tobacco products is £9.5 billion a year. In total, the gross financial benefit to the government from smoking therefore amounts to £19.3 billion. Subtracting the £4.6 billion of costs (above) produces an overall net benefit of £14.7 billion per annum."
https://iea.org.uk/publications/smoking-and-the-public-purse/
I think NI is a pretty naff form of taxation. Paid by low income workers in PAYE employment. Not paid by the retired with six figure pensions. Not paid on income from investments, B2L etc. Minimal paid by those who reward themselves mostly by dividends from their company and a tiny minimum wage income. But the bloke working on the tills gets shafted all his working life.
I'd scrap it and fiddle with income tax rates to get the taxation income instead. Sure, people need to 'earn' access to a state pension and benefits, but surely there could be a credit system based on having been employed as detected by whatever system spits out P60s. Id go further - those who do jobs that benefit us all like NHS, emergency services, military, 3rd sector and state education get a credit boost for say the first 10 years to encourage more people to do it for part of their orking life before disappearing into higher paid wealth gathering professions. Or to encourage those short of credits towards the end of their career to go work for a charity or teach to qualify for a state pension.
This is the nub of the problem - people are living far, far longer than was envisaged when the pensions first came into being
Yes, that is one factor, but the main one is overall Government spending on social care/benefits and pensions. I read yesterday the whole of the income tax income is the same as the benefit bill this year. Whether its true, i didnt investigate, but it wont be far off.
The Government needs economic growth to fulfil its spending each year. This has been going on for 50+ years. Each new Government promises new spending, and occasionally cuts. The cuts are only small dips in spending, which inevitably goes up each year. Economic / population growth are the only way they can keep up with getting enough money in to pay out what they have promised. And as we've had stagnation for what, 10 years now, UK PLC are borrowing more to pay out their bills.
A total reform is required, but, none of the political Parties are prepared to do it. Ironically, Reform are the only ones who say they will do something about it, but they haven't given any plans, so , as usual, its all just bluster.
On a personal level, I had two small children in 97, I was in full time work, then suddenly started getting around £30/week more in my pay(~25% bonus). I couldnt believe it. I wasnt really struggling at the time, I could live on my wages, but why did the Blair government give all low(ish) earners a freebie? Is that still ongoing? If so, why? We have minimum wage now, so there shoudlnt be any need to supplement wages.
My Mum has the state pension, and around £1k a year from a private pension. She has to pay tax. FFS, why? She's hardly a frivolously spending pensioner, yet has to pay tax, as the base tax level hasnt risen in how many years. The system is a total mess, and we havent got the Politicians able to sort it, but carrying on as we are will lead to a bankrupt Country.
Yup creeping up again, it did for me it was 65 when I started work. Then again it was never meant to be your only source of income.
* my life. The MOD have just increased my reserve liability age to 65, now these *ers are pushing up state pension age.
The likelihood of that happening is slim, you also would need to be physically fit.
The part that annoys me is the shifting goal posts on your private pot. It lags the state by 10 years
So when I started my workplace pension I could withdraw from 50-55-57 next year
Under these proposals that will rise again . I've still 28 years to go. That's some pretty radical change in not even half my working life.
So while the tax free pension wrapper is tax efficient it's not complete plan.
I believe that one of the Scandi countries has a rule, that state pension ages changes up or down, based on the average age that they live to in that country.
Ultimately, the answer is clearly a cull. I'll volunteer that if I get Alzheimer's they can take me out and shoot me.
For reference I'm 55.
My Dad, a retired policeman lived to 73 and died early due to obesity related issues. Mum died a thankfully quickly after getting MND at 68. I guess they were pretty good value for the state.
I think NI is a pretty naff form of taxation. Paid by low income workers in PAYE employment. Not paid by the retired with six figure pensions. Not paid on income from investments, B2L etc. Minimal paid by those who reward themselves mostly by dividends from their company and a tiny minimum wage income. But the bloke working on the tills gets shafted all his working life.
I'd scrap it and fiddle with income tax rates to get the taxation income instead.
True. I doubt it will happen though because it is what Yes Minister would describe as a bold idea. Adding 8% (or thereabouts) to income tax rates would make it more obvious how highly taxed we are. Low earners would pay around 28% plus 20% VAT on much of what they spent their net wages on.
In Scotland once you are around £4k past the UK median salary you pay £42% tax and £8% NI on the next few thousand.
Adding NI to BTL rents would just result in rents going up. Anyone who has a 6 figure pension is already paying £40% tax on most of it.
The best argument for it IMO is simplifying the tax code. I would far prefer the tax income required to be raised from a few major tax codes (VAT, Income tax etc) rather than adding complexity to try and raise cash without people noticing by taxing everything. For example insurance premiums were not always taxed. That is a particularly unfair example as in many cases the young who tend to earn less pay higher premiums so get taxed more.
https://www.adamsmith.org/blog/simplifying-the-uk-tax-system
Ultimately, the answer is clearly a cull.
Don’t worry, there is one for working class people. Remember, we’re not ALL living longer, and these changes affect people with shorter life expectancy more negatively than others. Guess who that is? Higher taxes on pensioners would be a fairer answer… tax the long living well off rather than remove pension years for all (including the short living and financially struggling).
Have we done increasing the state pension age? Definitely not imo. I think it'll get to 71-72 in my life time.
I don't necessarily mind this as long as it's accompanied by some reasonable shifts in work culture. You can't expect 68-year-olds to be hustling 12 hours per day. They also need to take serious steps to eradicate workplace ageism. I doubt they will do any of that though, and we'll end up with a generation of unemployed 60+ year olds being forced to run down the value of their savings and private pension, and possible liquidate the value of their homes, leaving them destitute in old age.
If they have mobility scooter battalions where we're plugged in like Davros, running IVs to keep us function then cool.
Please do tell me more about my previous careers physical requirements. Been a while since I've heard some civilian hot-takes.
I’m talking about being recalled for those over 65 not what you previously did.
Oh how me and Mrs Cursing laughed about the increase in the reserve age. I can't imagine any use they could get from me. Still I guess that means I will continue to receive the thirty or so quid they send each year.
Ultimately, the answer is clearly a cull.
ala Logan's Run?
WRT to taxing pensioners....
There's a whole group of folk out there with hoards of cash and assets that they simply can't spend nor use.
How many old codgers are sitting on 3/4/5 bed homes and are only using 2-3 rooms at most?
My old man, aged 82, has more money left on his account each month than when he was working. He sits in a large three bed semi with a massive garden. Uses only two rooms downstairs and hasn't been in the garden for years.
I've an uncle who -through his private pensions - has nigh on 7k a month hitting his bank account. He literally gives his money away as he simply can't spend it. He paid my sister's mortgage for six months after her fella lost his job. He sits in a four bed house with a garden big enough to swing at a ball with a 7 iron. Again, he uses just the downstairs (but he does still manage to look after his garden).
Other retired family are also doing way better than their kids.... Sitting in large houses with a healthy pension put, whilst their kids are struggling to pay rent on a two up two down and are putting off having kids due to the financial pressures.
The boomer generation should be getting taxed much harder.
Close back some of the money they "made" during the good times and help cover their medical fees.
How many old codgers are sitting on 3/4/5 bed homes and are only using 2-3 rooms at most?
And what about folk with 3 or 4 bikes who only ride 2? Tax em til the pips squeak!!
