Let me set the scene:
My parents: Both early seventies. <y dad had a quadruple heart bypass 2 years ago, overweight, high blood pressure, ticks the boxes for the 'at risk' categories. My mum, overweight, type 2 diabetic, not very healthy at all. No exercise, eats crap, drinks too much. Falls into the 'at risk' category. Both way too fond of the good things in life!
I called them last night as there area (Greater Manchester) is having a localised spike of infections and they've had a semi lockdown in place for the last few weeks alog with Salford, Stockport and Thameside. In turns out that my brother and his clan have been visiting their house on a regular basis right the way through this. The irony is that they were complaining that one of their neighbours has had friends in etc! :).
The kids are now back at school, one in Primay and the other in Secondary, so given the area and te nuber of cases, the chances of one of the kids picking it up is a lot higher than where i am. They are quite content with the grand kids coming round after school etc whilst my brother and his wife finish work. I asked my brother how he can justify this given what is going on and the rate increase in their area and his reply was 'well we dont want them to lose the relationship and mum and dad are OK with it'. I feel that the buck stops with the parents (my brother and his wife) and knowing that both our parents are at risk why should they allow this to continue? I'll be talking to them both again in a few days to see if what we chatted bout last night has sunk in.
What would you do? Am i being OTT in that they shouldnt be allowing the kids to visit n the house for hours at a time? It's two sets of consenting adults who know the risks?
Anyone else have a similar predicament? How did you resolve it? Have you resolved it?
Ta!
Well, it's within the rules (2 households, 6 people) but I can understand your concern.
Not sure there's a way to resolve it. Either the kids will keep visiting and so you won't be happy, or they'll stop and your brother won't be happy.
Talk to each other, express your concerns, but there's sod all you can do i fear.
It’s two sets of consenting adults who know the risks?
this
Probably the most useful thing you can do is encourage them to take the kids outside, to the park etc. every afternoon and other ways to minimise the risk.
We have already told the grandparents that we'll see them next summer. The (state) school holidays between now and then are too short to give enough isolation time be sure that we're not carriers before seeing the septuagenarians.
edit: nothing to do with "the rules"... I'd treat them as what is required for us to not contribute to speeding up the spread of the virus in the community in general, so that our services can cope with the level of infection... they are not designed to offer specific protection to your loved ones... you'll need to do a bit of work yourself to find out how best to do that, and discuss any measures with them. "The government said we could" is really not the point.
You can explain the risks and then be ready to say "I told you so" when they end up in hospital
Fwiw, I'd agree with your concern, but if your parents and brother are totally fine for it to continue then there's not much you can do, really.
In contrast, my (70s) neighbour has decided he now can't see his grandchildren for a while as they've just gone back to school and hence the chances of them catching or carrying it are much higher.
Whilst I don't have the same family predicament I can emphathise, as my mum, early 70s has been shielding during lockdown along with my dad.
We finally managed to get them over to see us, me, wife and three kids, the day Matt Hancock tweeted that we were going back into a localised lockdown.
My mum had made the decision to hug her grandkids, for her mental well being and theirs. My oldest suffers from anxiety and has struggled with not being able to hug her in recent months.
Anyway back into lockdown we went and didn't see my parents until the day before local restrictions were lifted. We're in Stockport btw. As with all government announcements they managed to lift restrictions on the day the kids went back to school, thus opening them up to the great Covid school bubble experiment. Don't get me wrong the kids need to be back at school but I'm worried about my mum catching it via an asymptomatic grandchild, so we went to their house 24hours before we technically were allowed to. I needed to test my eye sight so drove to Congleton, with the family in the car, to make sure I'm okay to ride my bike, if anyone asks :-).
My mum (I've mentioned her a lot, sorry, but she's ace) has decided that being diagnosed with Stage 4 cancer 2years ago means she's been on borrowed time (she has responded amazingly to treatment and the prognosis seems good so far) that she can't stay couped up for the rest of her life and is trying to get back to a new normal where she can see her grandkids again. She's still being sensible about people outside of the family and not going out much etc.
With the new 6person rule coming back into play that creates a headache for my parents as both me and my sister have three kids each so any visit means that there are 7 of us together...
Luckily they are away this weekend to see my sister and her family so I have no useful contribution to make(down restrictions).
But I can see us having to be a bit slack with the 6 person rule.
Anyway that was a long winded way of saying I agree with your stance, however, if your parents are okay with the risk of infection, then I think you need to let them get on with their lives.
How shit would it be if our parents spent the next two years without contact with their grandkids which may possibly be the case with dealing with Covid-19 and complying with the rules...
Just make sure your parents and your brother are informed of the risks and let them decide how they want to play it, and support them with it, not worth falling out about IMHO.
Steve
EDIT: Cor blimey everyone else was way more succinct. Let's just say I've been giving this a lot of thought.
It’s two sets of consenting adults who know the risks?
this
I have to agree.
Sometimes older people have a different standpoint on mortality than younger people.
They may think the risks have been over blown
Or they may think that as they have a greater than 80% chance of being asymptomatic the risk of infection is worth taking to see their grand kids.
They might even think they've had a nice long life, and whilst they're not suicidal or 'ready to go' as they approach 80 and the end of the expected lifespan time with their Grand Kids is worth risk.
I would only personally 'step in' if I felt that either, they were unaware of the risks due to ignorance (thanks to a a diet of Daily Mail for example) or they felt pressurised to welcome them in because of family pressure etc.
I have very similar issues in my family, again in same lockdown-lite area. Dad, sister, BiL and two kids.
They're grown adults, my sister is a nurse and my dad stays in sheltered housing surrounded by vulnerable people, so they both know and understand the risks.
I don't like it. However it's their choice.
Ultimately it's your brother's choice whether or not to visit. I've seen my mum face to face once - outdoors - since this began - if I'd been regularly popping in, then she would have raised no objection, but I know what this virus can do to vulnerable elderly people, and choose not to.
Their choice, their risk (mostly).
However it’s their choice.
Very much this, if they are adults and are aware of the risks, plenty of people refuse cancer treatment after weighing up the benefits and risks involved.
Thanks folks, appreciated. The last thing i want to do is to create a division between us as should the worse happen then its too late isnt it?!? Ultimately it is their choice, they all know the risks so i guess it's over to them now...after i've put forth my 2p!
@Twistedpencil mine are in Sale so it comes under Trafford...
I’m glad we are taking a step backwards and finally enforcing rules.
My family is in a similar boat with 70+ grandparents. We won’t be seeing them again now school is back.
We've pretty much stuck to the rules since day one, both my folks and my FIL are 70-76 and we just can't risk them. Since it eased we've followed the guidance and will carry on doing so, given mine and sister's jobs it's kind of a no brainer (public health and env health), we've also got a decent outbreak that stemmed from round the corner. Nothing more we can do but make an informed choice, based on circumstances within the rules. The data isn't good!
What's that noise?
Sounds like someone sharpening a scythe ready for the harvest...
Consenting adults fair enough, but it places a huge responsibility on the parents of the grandchildren to ensure those kids understand the basics of the hygiene involved.
The kids need to understand the consequences.
Wear your mask, wash your hands, keep away from groups, that way you might not kill granny...
Personally I'd look at it from the kids perspective, they are being placed in a position where they might kill their grandparents.
That's one hell of a guilt trip to grow up realising...
Ultimately it is their parents choice though op and not much you can do.
My bro and SIL have been visiting her family all the way through, but no-one is at risk. Don't agree with it. We are being careful as my folks are in their 70's, but OK health wise. MIL is in a Nursing home, so MrsF could only get to see her from the car park again today (we're Stockport and out of the tighter rules).
I suppose if they are aware of the risks. There isn't currently the number of deaths, that's why folk are treating this lightly, but given we are entering winter, I'd expect that to increase. Very risky now the schools are going back though.
Don't fall out with your brother and family. aka bite your lip.
Tough call, but as others have said, it's up to your parents and your brother.
We've stopped our kids going round to my parents again. Not in a high risk area as yet, yes they could be outside, or have all the windows open, or stayed 2 metres apart, but the risk is still there.
And it's not so much the risk itself, but neither we nor my parents want to have the kids wondering if they were the ones who put granny and/or grandad in hospital/a grave.
Secondary teacher type here and in new lowly job I'm back in the classroom full time. After a week back I resolved to not go inside my mum's house again for the foreseeable - I'll meet her on her covered patio area.
I'm not easily unnerved but it's fair to say it feels I'm taking one for the team - it's impossible to socially isolate from the little scamps properly. Am focussing on keeping fit and healthy to reduce the impact on me and not mixing with vulnerables in my free time.
My wife has arranged for her parents to stay with us in October. I am not the greatest fan of the bexity numptys. They still don't get it - they are meeting daily with other olds non socially distanced and claim it is ok because they nominate each set of friends as their support bubble for the day. The world would be no worse off if they coughed their racist little lungs up but I'd rather it wasn't me that did the deed so I'll be sleeping in the van for the week. Win Win.
They’ve made their decision your option is different but your parents are adults so they can choose differently.
Leave you to make your own conscience on application of the law but I'm increasingly of the view that life needs to go on on a more balanced (NOT totally unrestricted) footing but especially we've got to keep face to face social interaction going for the sake of people's mental well being and societal cohesion.
My parents are just either side of 70, they want time with their grandkids and they want a life, not an existence, a life. We and they want them to have the ability to have a relationship with their grandchildren before it's too late, while they can still learn and benefit from the love, knowledge and sense of family that those interactions bring. Latest rules mean we can still visit them (I think) and while they're happy I'm happy.
Cancer, a heart attack, a ****wit in a Chelsea tractor (Dad does like his road cycling) could take any one of them away in days or weeks or months. They want to live without taking stupid risks because living constantly in fear without a sensible level of social interaction when you might only have 10 good years left isn't a very attractive option if you are a fit, healthy, sociable, outdoor living human being.
My parents know there are risks (no significant/specific health issues) and we've nearly lost one of the close family in their 40s to Covid so we are certainly not isolated from the severity with which it can strike.
As a taxpayer, I'm not sure how I feel about people taking actions that will cost the NHS money that is coming out of my pay packet.
I'd rather my money was spent on helping people who were not doing deliberately foolhardy things.
As a taxpayer, I’m not sure how I feel about people taking actions that will cost the NHS money that is coming out of my pay packet.
I’d rather my money was spent on helping people who were not doing deliberately foolhardy things.
Plenty of people would regard riding bikes down mountains as foolhardy, sailing, sky diving, driving fast, smoking, drinking to excess, being a fat unhealthy couch potato, bungee jumping, boxing, wrestling where do you draw the line?
"Foolhardy" is entirely objective and assumes your world view is the more correct one.
We all (with a few exceptions) have paid taxes over the years to fund those systems. The other day some brain dead cretin blind overtook me and nearly caused a 60mph head on smash - should I be able as a taxpayer to say she shouldn't get an ambulance. Far more stupid risks are taken at an individual level every day.
Secondary teacher type here and in new lowly job I’m back in the classroom full time. After a week back I resolved to not go inside my mum’s house again for the foreseeable – I’ll meet her on her covered patio area.
I’m not easily unnerved but it’s fair to say it feels I’m taking one for the team
This. My job isnt safe enough for me to see my mum.
Much the same as twistedpencil, we took the kids to visit my mum when the local lockdown easing was announced but before it became effective. Had we waited until it was actually lifted they'd have been back in school and at a higher risk of exposure.
It did all of their mental well-being so much good, especially as my mum hadn't seen our youngest for nearly 6 months (she's high risk due to a number of factors).
Other than that we're sticking rigidly to the rules, when we can figure out what they actually are...
acidchunks
Other than that we’re sticking rigidly to the rules, when we can figure out what they actually are…
It is hard to keep up with the changes.
I've told my lot to just imagine it's Ebola and do what they'd do to avoid that.
An intake of breath here just now.
My father had the kids round for tea on Wednesday.
Yesterday the youngest arrives home with a headache, sniffles and says tea tastes odd. Today she has high temp. School (+2 others in area) confirming an outbreak among staff and parents, and likely some children.
No testing accessible at present. School confirm they need a fortnight off unless they have negative test.
So what does my BiL do? Heads to college for the day....
What does my dad do? Head round to sister to pop a few things through the door...
Words fail me.
Fingers crossed on all counts Matt 🤞
What would you do? Am i being OTT
No but the buck stops with the (your) parents....
Family of five here. Battleaxe of Mother in law due up at Christmas but will only travel with her partner (6 hour drive, fair enough not wanting to do that alone at her age). So as it currently stands, they can't come for Christmas. I'm delighted.
Sending best wishes to outandabout family.
Fingers crossed on all counts Matt
+1 Best wishes and fingers crossed for a negative test.
As someone who is higher-than-normal risk, my anxiety levels are pretty substantial right now. Not sure how I can avoid this now the kids are back at school.
My mum just announced that she has been away this week on a coach trip to N England, York etc. wanted to then come down and stay. No thanks, we'll see you in 2 weeks we said at which point she took the hump. Honestly, it's like all this is made up and doesn't apply to her.
My mum just announced that she has been away this week on a coach trip to N England
Yeh, I was shocked to see the 'Granny Express' coaches disgorging their contents into Skipton again in the past couple of weeks. Still, it's their funeral.
Family of five here. Battleaxe of Mother in law due up at Christmas but will only travel with her partner (6 hour drive, fair enough not wanting to do that alone at her age). So as it currently stands, they can’t come for Christmas. I’m delighted.
Bugger. Just realised that kids under 12 don't get counted in the six. My youngest is 11. No (current) excuse then for her not to come.
Frank are you in Scotland? Unless there's been the weekly U-turn so that we follow the Scottish rules the all kids count in England...
And it’s not so much the risk itself, but neither we nor my parents want to have the kids wondering if they were the ones who put granny and/or grandad in hospital/a grave.
This ^
Quite honestly, what could be worse for a kid than growing up knowing they killed their grandparents?
(obviously apart from killing their parents)
Frank are you in Scotland? Unless there’s been the weekly U-turn so that we follow the Scottish rules the all kids count in England…
Not so, this is current and from BBC website. I did try finding it on actual Scot Gov website but not easy to find
Edit, found it on Scot Gov site
Children under 12 from within the two households will not be counted in the new limit of six people.
I am totally with you. We are both in our 30's with a 3 year old daughter. Due to my partner being on medication which comprises his immune system and my daughter having a small hole in her heart we have been following the guidelines down to a T and will still not see anyone indoors. My parents who are in their 50's do not get our reasoning and don't like the fact that we are are very over the top and won't group together as a family of 8 and make them social distance with my daughter still.
It is very hard but I think when you have loved ones that are more at risk it definitely makes you be more cautious which others will not like as your view is different to theirs, but guess you need to go about it how you feel most comfortable to ensure you have done everything you could off to protect your family.