[Closed] Gove goes.

Better the devil you know ?

Better anyone but him

[i]Better the devil you know ? [/i]

He was clearly a man who wanted to make his mark on education, even when he was in opposition.

I've barely heard of his replacement so can only assume they aren't cut from the same cloth.

unless of course the aim to get the job done without presenting an obvious target for resistance...

"Norman Smith [bbc polictical correspondent] says as education secretary, Michael Gove had a habit of ruffling feathers among teachers. It may be hoped that Nicky Morgan will have a more "soothing" effect when it comes to threats of strikes and so on. "

Its irrelevant who's apparently at the helm. This bunch of ****s all have the same agenda. It'll merely be a change of spokesperson, who is (probably very temporarily) less toxic.

As I keep saying when my (soon to be ex) colleagues in teaching complain about him......

"Somebody voted for them"

Bye Michael and thanks - you encouraged me to make a career change, shame your decision was made for you.

Oh good, the new education secretary thinks that children shouldn't have parents that are gay and married.

[url= http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Loughborough-MP-Nicky-Morgan-explains-voted/story-18148357-detail/story.html ]http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Loughborough-MP-Nicky-Morgan-explains-voted/story-18148357-detail/story.html[/url]

binners may have a point...

anagallis_arvensis - Member
Better anyone but him.

Thats what i thought about Andrew Lansley as health sec, and they (by this i mean cameron's closet full of lobbyists, lets not pretend that he was alone in making the choice about such a financially important post) still found someone even more machiavellian and utterly "for sale" to replace him. 😕

Better the devil you know ?

Re-shuffles, eh?

[img] [/img]

At least he leaves a worthwhile legacy. Has anyone got a signed copy of his bible as a keepsake?

Gove did what he thought was right without giving the slightest hint of a toss about what people thought of him for doing so. We need more people like that in politics rather than the snivelling, wet, nose up their leaders' arses brigade that do what they are told and nothing more (waves at the Lib Dems that I wasted my vote on).

The vast majority of Tory politicians are evil, nasty, vile little creeps that pretend to be something different. Gove sort of held his hand up and didn't really deny what he stood for. Most Labour MPs as far as I can tell are no different to the Torys in their behaviour, they just claim to have different policies. I don't trust them either but it would be nice to think that some would actually do what they claim should I vote for them (which is what I'd feel most comfortable doing).

Gove did what he thought was right without giving the slightest hint of a toss about what people thought of him for doing so. We need more people like that in politics

Do we hell!

Government MUST NOT be a one man show. Because if that person is wrong, it all goes to hell.

Gove was very wrong, a lot, so him pushing his viewpoint has really ****ed things up quite a lot.

^
|

That

David Willetts standing down is something of a loss - v unlikely to be replaced by anyone of similar standing (don't think his successor has been announced?). His political capital within the Tories meant he could be an effective advocate for science (relatively speaking). If a stuffed-shirt conservative had been on the science brief 2010 onwards it would have decimated science funding.

it would be nice to think that some would actually do what they claim should I vote for them

You really don't understand how politics works, do you. 😆

As Ben Elton said of one of Thatcher's reshuffles it was "Suits full of b*gger all replaced by suits full of b*gger all."

Correct Molgrips.

That **** was opinionated and oblivious to the experiences of the people he was supposedly responsible for. The complete opposite to the sort of person I would have representing me and driving forward my profession.

Unfortunately it is no longer my profession as he was screwing it up so royally that I left to do something more independent and less interfered with.

I should thank him for forcing my hand but I did enjoy teaching.

Good riddance to him.

As Ben Elton said of one of Thatcher's reshuffles it was "Suits full of b*gger all replaced by suits full of b*gger all."

"What will you have, Prime Minister?"

"Steak. Blue."

"And the vegetables?"

"They'll have the same."

Gove and the even worse offender IDS* are absolutely wilfully blind to any evidence that contradicted their own lofty idealogical assertions. They're the political equivalent of a small child with his fingers in his ears shouting LA, LA, LA!!! I'M NOT LISTENING!!!!!!!

Apparently Esther McVey is being promoted to a senior position, so I'm sure we can expect more of a similar attitude. An absolutely vile woman!!

* And I hope that slyly viscous, uncaring, incompetent **** has got his marching orders too

One man show - my arse! You think he could just push through an agenda like that without 'Call me Dave' and his cabinet cronies backing him behind the scenes? He just happened to be the only one that would admit "This is what I am and what I believe in".

Ignore the policies - I agree they were wrong (in fact I have no idea but am happy to believe that the vast majority of teaching professionals know what impact they were having and are right). I can't believe anyone in this country could think anything of what Gove did to be "unTory". What the hell did you expect Gove to do? He's a Tory and more people voted for them than Labour - the 'country' got what it wanted.

Despite this, I admire the character trait of standing up for what you believe in. If we could trust all politicians to stick by their beliefs, it would make voting a whole lot easier - and that is the crux of my badly written point!

EDIT: Woppit, I do understand but foolishly still hope that some integrity might eventually, some day (get voted in) wriggle its way into Westminster.

Education to Chief Whip? Hardly "marching", binners.

Oh, voting is easy. Attributing any credibility to the process or the choices is the difficult bit.

There's standing up for what you believe in then there's being inflexible to a fault. Gove definitely fitted into the last camp.

Interesting times to have a new education secretary. We are mid way through a pretty massive change to the examination system in this country. It's going to be interesting to see if a new secretary will change the direction it's going, or indeed if it's too late for that now.

The fact that's he's going to be chief whip did make me chuckle though. There are few faces as much in need of a punch than Gove's - the fact that Cameron is inflicting that on his own MPs is quite amusing.

Also, he's going to have an [i]"enhanced role in campaigning and doing broadcast media interviews"[/i] - who thought that was a good idea! Gove has the unique ability of making any message sound like a knife twist - he could turn up at your house with a giant lottery winners cheque and you'd want to shove his head down the bog after 30 seconds in his company. Why would Dave want him in front of the cameras any more than strictly necessary? Edit - thinking about it again, there is a face I want to punch more than Gove's - Farage. There are plenty of unhinged UK voters who have voted for him - perhaps this is the tories trying to out bellend UKIP!

I admire the character trait of standing up for what you believe in

I do to a point, but not

a) When the issues are vast and technical and a lot of highly skilled professionals know far more about it thann you do.

b) when it's your job to find a solution that satisfies as many people as possible, rather than just enforce your ideas on everyone.

Gove doesn't know best, politicians generally don't. Sometimes Civil Servants do, but they're not politicans.

He'll appeal to UKIP voters

convert - Member
he could turn up at your house with a giant lottery winners cheque and you'd want to shove his head down the bog after 30 seconds in his company

😆

Spot on

Education to Chief Whip? Hardly "marching", binners.

Chief Whip, in the last few months before a general election, when MPs will be behaving themselves anyway, it's a pretty massive demotion.

IDS

Universal credit now viewed as a new starter by the audit office
Treasury inly signing off on it monthly
at the current rate if implementation it will take 2000 years for it to be in every office

I am not sure what he has to do to show he is incompetent tbh

Stephen Collins summed up Goves idea of his own talents, as opposed to the reality....

[img] [/img]

He'll appeal to UKIP voters

If the latest polls are to be believed (big "if", admittedly), that particular wave has broken anyway.

Convert reminded me of Time Trumpet's interview with future Clare Short on Tony Blair/Gordon Brown

'To put it bluntly Tony could shit in your hat and you'd want to shake his hand. Gordon would shake your hand and you'd want to shit in his hat'

(IIRC)

I wondered what the cheering was this morning

when will this shower wake up and realise that people are only voting for UKIP and the SNP because the tories, labour and the libs are all tories of one form or another that no-one trusts to tie shoe-laces, never mind run the flippin country. 👿

Hagues gone. He was the only one out of the lot of them who came across as an actual human being, and looked like he might actually know what he was doing

Hagues gone. He was the only one out of the lot of them who came across as an actual human being, and looked like he might actually know what he was doing

Agreed, no matter how much I have tried I couldn't help but like Hague. Whispers it quietly - quite liked Ken too - especially his constant vocal pro stance for Europe within a party pretty anti the idea.

Can't believe IDS has held onto his job.

Hagues gone

Radio 4 joke there

[i]Benghazi ???

Radio 4 joke there [/i]

We can have a whip round and make sure Jon Culshaw still gets to do it every now and again...

Maybe IDS has got that dodgy Westminster peado dossier that went missing. Its the only reason I can think of that he's consistently managed to keep his job despite demonstrating on a daily basis what an utterly incompetent ****-wit he is

Polite question, have the Teachers unions ever liked or supported an Education Secretary?

I seem remember them holding Blunkett hostage, walking out on Morris and Clarke was booed and hissed and called the worst ever.

so no more interviews of Hague by Reeta Chakrabarti in Benghazi 🙁

Polite question, have the Teachers unions ever liked or supported an Education Secretary?

Probably not, as they keep trying to make themselves and their governments look good by pandering to populist ideas about how schools should be run, whilst completely ignoring the people who actually understand education and the kids.

Polite question, have the Teachers unions ever liked or supported an Education Secretary?

I know you hate him and I didnt agree with much of what he did but Balls didnt seem completely awful.
You have to also remember that Teachers Unions are not teachers and most teachers are only in a union for legal cover.

[quote=convert ]Whispers it quietly - quite liked Ken too - especially his constant vocal pro stance for Europe within a party pretty anti the idea.

+1, despite disagreeing with him on Europe.

Ken seemed to be of the 'standup for what I believe in - but have room for compromise' type.

Ken will go back to flogging fags to Chinese children.

I think the broad thrust of what Gove was doing was the policy of the Government. I would imagine the new incumbent will try and be a bit more diplomatic if for no other reason than the election is due soon, no point rocking the boat. I believe he lost his job due mainly to his ridiculous public spat with Theresa May, those anti-gore here should bear that in mind, little in reality will change.

FWIW I think politicians interfering in education to the extent they do is a travesty. Education needs less politicians (none in fact) trying to "make their mark"

Hague told the PM he was going to stand down as an MP last year so he's effectively retired. he stayed around long enough to do the glamour bit with Ms Tomb Raider and now he's off.

I guess he can spend more time on his writing: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Everything-I-know-about-teaching/dp/1492912417/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

Ken was affable but he did sell fags to kids without any moral issue

On balance it is a no from me as he was principled on Europe and little else.

he also liked jazz....shudders

I have to say I'm very disappointed,read the thread title,was just tying my dancing shoes,when I heard on the radio he'd only been sacked.Paah.

Ken was affable but he did sell fags to kids without any moral issue

Well, it makes a nice change for Tory MP's to be selling fags to kids rather than k...

(sorry, had to be done)

This is Dave's election mode reshuffle, freeing up the mouth pieces for some PR...

Sounds like they want to use Gove as a bit of a spokesman, more than likely to attract some of the swivel eyed floaters back from UKIP in time for the election...

the chief whip role is just to keep him [I]sort of[/I] in the cabinet/senior sounding role, without any actual remit beyond being "Head boy", post election He'll want a proper ministerial role again, or else He'll most likely start sharpening his dagger...

Expect to see Gove saying all sorts of things on all sorts of topics, while Hague trys to calm things down in his wake, and trys to make the Tories seem more reasonable...

I just hope she can pull a u turn on the scraping of A*-G grades which is completely fit for purpose and didn't need changing.

It's good to see she is wanting to pull the free school idea too.

Things can only get better for teachers with Gove elsewhere.

[i]It's good to see she is wanting to pull the free school idea too.[/i]

have you got a link for that?

chilled76 - Member

It's good to see she is wanting to pull the free school idea too.

are you talking about Liz Truss, I thought she was very neo-liberal and all for the private sector taking over public sector roles?

Hagues gone. He was the only one out of the lot of them who came across as an actual human being, and looked like he might actually know what he was doing

+ another. Awful leader though.

he also liked jazz....shudders

Oi! 👿

I know you hate him and I didnt agree with much of what he did but Balls didnt seem completely awful.

He was pretty crap. A big difference was that there was more money in education - schools weren't being run on third world budgets.

are you talking about Liz Truss

Nope Nicky Morgan takes over from Gove... whoever she might be.

Hagues gone.

Not quite yet, He's been made Leader of the Commons, He is stepping down at the next election though and Dave needs him free to face the press in the run up to that, He's pretty good with the press...

TBH I think a few of the new ministers are probably just there to keep other's seats warm...

ninfan - Member

Polite question, have the Teachers unions ever liked or supported an Education Secretary?

Probably not but this is the closest they've come to throwing one into a volcano for a while.

cb - Member

Gove did what he thought was right without giving the slightest hint of a toss about what people thought of him for doing so. We need more people like that in politics

Little bit from column A but it's nice when they also take advice from experts and don't just presume that what they think is right, is actually right. So there's probably a sliding scale and a lot of politicians could do with being a bit more Gove. But not a lot more.

There's a piece in the Telegraph from one of his supporters saying that the latest teachers strike action was the last nail in his political coffin as far as support from Cameron was concerned.

"The most effective piece of industrial action in this parliament"

So a one day strike can have a positive effect 🙂

[img] [/img]

He did seem as if he formulated 'policy' based on whatever had popped into his head as he woke up that morning. Without feeling the need to consult anyone else, or seek any advice on whether it was a good idea, or indeed if it was actually viable

Today I shall scrap the entire countries exam system and replace it with something else. I'm not sure what yet, but if I come up with something, then its bound to be absolutely brilliant.

And from now on, children will only be allowed to read the books that I've got on my shelf in the front room

[i]from now on, children will only be allowed to read the books that I've got on my shelf in the front room[/i]

Although that's one up on the prisons minister who arbitrarily decided that prisoners shouldn't be allowed to have books at all. They put idea in their heads or something.

This shower really are a bunch of utter and complete ****-wits, aren't they? Trouble is; you look at the other lot and get the distinct feeling that though maybe not in the same level for gleeful nastiness, they've got the potential to be even more incompetent

[i] they've got the potential to be even more incompetent [/i]

I'd take some comfort if I thought the poor results of their policies were by accident rather than design though...

[img] [/img]

Indeed. This lots **** ups are a result of their blindly evangelical worship of all things 'The Market' does, without letting anything as inconvenient as facts getting in the way, or it being tempered by anything as pointless and irrelevant as empathy or compassion.

And from now on, children will only be allowed to read the books that I've got on my shelf in the front room

😆

Brilliant.

Indeed. This lots **** ups are a result of their blindly evangelical worship of all things 'The Market' does,

Nope. If that were the case, failed banks would have been allowed to fail, instead of having squillions of taxpayer's lolly shovelled at them.

They are fans of Corporatism, not Capitalism.

Fair point Wopster

It was a completely exaggerated faith in the market which caused things to go tits up. "Light-touch regulation" was all that was needed they claimed.

But this exaggerated faith in the market wasn't restricted to the Tories in the Conservative Party it was also shared by those in the Labour Party.

They are big fans of capitalism, but even the biggest fan of capitalism recognises that the market can never function satisfactorily without government intervention.

That is why the most important political office after prime minister is almost always finance minister. Far from having a minor role in government, as they sit back watching the market functioning freely, finance ministers across the world are constantly having to deal with a permanent state of crises.

On the question of Gove's demotion I'm somewhat puzzled as to why Cameron has decided that he should be the "Tory face on TV". Surely he must realise that the smuggest most slappable face in government probably isn't the best choice ?

So we are talking about a Minister of Education moving job and this gets confused with unbridled faith in markets. The clue is in the title and what he did that made him so unpopular. They love meddling in education, the lot of them. What has that got to do with markets or capitalism?

But teachers will never be forgotten for this one 😉 Gove fronting the election campaign. That means most days in the media. How could that happen??? Does CMD really reckon that he is a vote winner?

Loved the bird from the defence minister claiming that new job has nothing to do with her gender. Let's hope she understands her brief better than the reason for her appointment.

[quote=ernie_lynch ]On the question of Gove's demotion I'm somewhat puzzled as to why Cameron has decided that he should be the "Tory face on TV". Surely he must realise that the smuggest most slappable face in government probably isn't the best choice ?

You have to assume that even CMD isn't really that stupid, in which case there's something else going on here - most likely internal party politics I'd have thought given Gove's ambitions, maybe Dave is setting him up?